"Mirror, Mirror on the wall . . . where did he go, and why doesn't he call?"

Dating a Disappearing Man, Reached Your Limit?

Dating a disappearing man that reappears periodically without notice, and after rudely disappearing on you without explanation, is certainly an experience that many modern day females can relate to.

This can be seen in the discussion of the topic on this piece titled “Disappearing/Reappearing Man: What to Do” which is no longer able to accept any further comments on the site as it’s reached the 5,000 limit.

Yep, I’d say a lot of you have been dating a disappearing man and have reached your limit. I’d go even further and say it’s a modern day dating epidemic. So what’s a girl to do?

Well, I won’t repeat the suggestions I’ve shared on that piece because you’re free to go there and study up on it. However, I will say that after a couple of years’ worth of discussion on dating a disappearing man, and after many thousands of personal stories shared there, it has become apparent to me that the best way to deal with a disappearing man who reappears periodically to dredge things up (before disappearing again) is to focus on yourself – and try your best to forget about him.


Probably not what you were expecting to hear, I understand that. There are very detailed suggestions listed in that article referenced above if you'd like to give it a try. But after a couple of years of observation and lots of discussion with women dating a disappearing man, it has become clear to me that when these types disappear on you, even if they circle back, it generally leads nowhere. And that’s not because there’s something wrong with you – it’s because there’s most likely something wrong with them.

Men who display this pattern of behavior generally do not correct it. I’m sure you’ve heard the old saying, “You can’t teach an old dog new tricks.” And the reality here is that we’re dealing with old dogs, ladies. Plain and simple – and they’re not learning any new tricks. They’re simply repeating the old ones over and over and over again for as long as they’re permitted to get away with it, which brings me to my next point.

People Can Only Treat You as Poorly as You LET Them


When we permit these patterns of behavior to play out in our lives over and over and over again, it should come as no surprise that the same outcome is simply repeated again as well. Yet it perplexes us. If he didn’t like me, why did he bother to come back? If he wanted nothing to do with me back then, why is he ringing my phone again now? It must mean he likes me. It must mean he’s at least slightly interested, right?

Yes, no, and maybe – for all the wrong reasons.

Is he interested in sex? Yes. Is he ready for a committed relationship? No. Has he hit a dry spell? Maybe. Either way you slice it, after a couple of years listening to stories from women out in the trenches dating a disappearing man, I can honestly tell you – I can’t think of one time, not one time, that it’s ever ended with “and they lived happily ever after.” I’ve read a ton of stories about women outgrowing their disappearing man (DM), or boring of him, or tiring of him, or meeting someone else in the 3 months it took him to make his 3rd reappearance. But no, in the 5,000 comments and stories shared, I’ve never heard a story that concluded with a “happily ever after” ending.

What I do hear is a lot of women beating themselves up, blaming themselves, wondering what’s wrong with them, questioning why he hasn’t called and asking when he will. And after a couple of years of researching this topic, I can stand here today and tell you – it’s definitely not you – it’s a modern day epidemic.

Behavior that was once considered abnormal is now slowly becoming the accepted norm. Hiding behind devices in texts and emails is making it even easier to transition society as a whole into the acceptance of this – accepting sociopathic behavior that displays no sense of remorse, guilt or empathy for the individual on the other end of the line. It’s easy to just disappear these days, because half the communication that existed in the first place existed in the virtual world, on a device screen, and not in real life. Gone are the days when you’d have to hold these discussions face to face. Nowadays, don’t like someone; don’t want to see them anymore? Hey, no problem, you’ll never have to speak to them again – just don’t answer any calls, emails or texts from them and voila’ – problem solved.

Throw in online dating and the endless buffet of easy opportunities there and what you end up with is a bunch of kids in a candy store, running around experiencing a fantastic sugar high that they never want to come down from. It builds the ego, it gives them something to brag to their buddies about, and they rarely, if ever, have to face any consequences for it. Hence, the birth of the disappearing man.

Ahh, utopia does exist after all, no?

The Mind Trip a Disappearing Man is Running on You


Many of these bad boy “players” are using a psychological tactic that they’re not even aware of (although some are VERY aware and well educated on the matter). They think they’ve got some magic sauce about them that women just can’t get enough of. But really, all they’ve done is stumbled onto a very real fact about the human psyche:


I just watched two men, both mid 30’s, on a reality television show the other night talking about women and dating - the issue at hand? One man had two great women on his hands. Sigh . . . problems, problems. Yet, he was patting himself on the back proudly about the fact that it was only two – which apparently is down from his usual norm of 8. Yea, you heard me, I said 8. And the other guy he was talking to didn’t blink an eye at that number.

So I think it’s safe to say – rotating 8 women at one time, misleading them all to think you’re “relationship ready”, talking about having babies and a future with them, and using them for sex until it’s time to move onto the next gal in your rotation – is apparently “the norm” in the lifestyle of many young modern males these days.

Should you hold your ground and level the playing field when dating a disappearing man that you sense has you locked into a rotation that he hasn’t exactly been honest about? Absolutely.

Should you hold your breath waiting for him to circle back around again? Don’t bother; it’ll be your turn again before you know it.

Should you pick up that phone or respond to that text when he does circle back around? Probably not – unless you want the first outcome to repeat itself a second time.

So What SHOULD You Do?


Forget having a “talk” with him and instead, do something constructive that will actually benefit YOU - and have that hard talk with yourself.

Ask yourself what it is that causes you to keep taking this man back. What is it that causes you to want to continue dating a disappearing man, despite already knowing that he’s not capable of making you happy or fulfilling your needs. Dig deep, because the answers don’t lie with him – they actually lie WITHIN you.

I repeat - people can only treat you as poorly as you LET them. If you do not permit people to act upon you, then you don’t get hurt, you don’t get used and you don’t let other people make you feel like crap over their shortcomings in life. You check their baggage at their door and you walk away into your future.

I’m not an overly religious individual, although I do consider myself spiritual – but when someone says something that is so very powerful it sends vibrations to your very core . . . then the message must be shared. Having said that, I’ll let Bishop T.D. Jakes take over from here:


“When people can walk away from you, let them walk. I don’t care how wonderful they are, I don’t care how attracted you are to them, I don’t care what they did for you 20 years ago, I don’t care what the situation is. When people can walk away from you, let them walk – because your destiny is not tied to the person who left.”

Can I get an AMEN, ladies!

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940 Comments:

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Gem50 said...

BRAVO Ms. Mirror!

I wrote the following before reading above... I'm just going to let it fly "as is."

@ Ms. Mirror and the Ladies,

I'd like to give an update on what's been going on, but before I do I want to thank Ms. Mirror and all the ladies (and Peter) who have been here and who have helped me over the past two years.

I would also like to say that I have just noticed the opportunity to support Ms. Mirror's message and her work by donation. When I first came here, I had asked if Ms. Mirror had a "team" that responded to all of our requests for help. I was astonished that this all came from one woman -- amazing!

I've said a few times before, I share what I've learned, my successes and mistakes here because I believe in Ms. Mirror's effort... I am an example of many of the women who have come here. To my small world, I was strong, smart and perfectly managing through life (we can fool them all, can't we ladies??) But what brought me here was a disappearing man and my ignorance to what was really out 'there' in the dating world.

Over the past two years, I have cried out, cried to and cried with this support group. And with your help, I have looked inside (oh, the tough-love of Ms. Mirror!! lol) and practiced loving myself, practiced saying no thank you, practiced being a woman, and I believe I am finally on the path I am meant to be on.

Thank you Ms. Mirror for the opportunity to support your message, to try to continue to others as you have helped me.

OK, hold on to your seats ladies... because I have news!

I spent a few hours with Scorpio last week! Yep. Unbelievable. Yep... and I came out of it unscathed. His texting that began in June never stopped; and as everyone knows that has perused my story, I've been going along to learn. Finally a couple weeks ago, I told him that we both had to "let this go" between us. Instead of letting go, he continued to text and request to get together. I suggested that maybe seeing each other one more time would help us end it; he not only agreed, he persisted.

Continued

Gem50 said...

2 of 2

Well, Scorpio came to my house and it really was wonderful to see him. But, I'd say 80% of what he stated he would do in his texts did not happen -- his words did not align to his actions. I won't go into detail, but know that I listened, observed and was authentic to myself.

I am still very attracted to Scorpio. I love listening to his voice, his ideas, watching him and love how I feel with him. But, he's a player and someday he is going to be one of those guys we've talked about here sitting in his recliner all alone drinking beer with the tv as his only company.

The point of sharing this with you all is for you to see that we can survive after getting mixed up and having our heart broken by these disappearing men. And not only can we survive we will thrive if we are willing to do the work of rewriting the scripts in our heads, practicing healthy behavior, not jumping at these guys that lay out lines on us.

Although I feel and sound great right now, I know it could change on a dime -- because it has in the past. I hope it won't, and I kinda' have a sneaky suspicion it won't; but if it does and I turn into a broken hearted woman again, I know I can come here to get a virtual hug, verbal support and kick in the butt if I need it. ;-)

Oh, and also ladies, I'd like to share that of all the guys I've written here about in the past year, I've seen all but one of them again in the past month -- and it's not pretty: Guitarist was over my house a couple weeks ago with my bro (nice guy, but he's not fully employed and has no desire to be); I saw 46 on his bike when I was taking a walk (2 weeks later he was in hospital emergency room with issues); Little guy (saw him recently in bar acting like an adolescent with his 'crew" and young waitress -- behaving like a loud mouth punk trying to get my attn. -- nope); Scorpio (I still love him, but I think he has a lot of work to do if he wants to catch up to me); and last night I saw Kitchen Counter guy (who looked absolutely miserable walking into store with his gf as I was walking out smiling and humming Christmas tunes to myself - yea, he saw me, and I kept walking lol). The one guy I haven't seen is Musician.. hmmm, I wonder if he is next.

But I bring up all those guys because time has given me a gift of SEEING how f'd up they really are. And with all of them, I can't imagine having to deal with them on a day to day basis. Oy!

So ladies, stay the path of learning, grace and love of/for yourself and those who deserve it.

I love you all, and Cheers to US! (with a glass of milk tonight lol)

Shelby said...

I'm excited that I'm the first to say, thank you for such a fabulous article. Very well written! I appreciate greatly your time and attention to questions I have posed. All the best! Till next time. Shelby

chk61 said...

Amen!! Mirror, after 5000 comments on the previous disappearing man thread and your sage advice, you summed it up perfectly!

My personal D.M. story is well documented on the other disappearing/reappearing man thread. ;-) I guess there were a lot of us scratching our heads.

I wanted to let you know that I truly appreciated your recent advice on my situation. Thanks for your coaching, Mirror and thanks to Hopeful, for your thoughts.

So after 10 days, I responded to my D.M.'s email with a brief reply, basically mirroring him. He sent a one sentence reply a few hours later that he was waiting to board his return flights in a couple of hours, and then just a smiley face emoticon.

I totally agree with you that despite whatever friendly intentions he may have, his invitation to attend his party is house is more about him and not about me. He likes me enough to invite me but views me as a purely casual friend, and perhaps even just a warm female body to make him look good at his party. And yeah, if I do attend, he gets an ego boost. If I do attend, he gets the message that I am willing to take whatever he offers and he can come in and out of my life as he pleases.

My gut feeling is I will feel somewhat disappointed and sad if I attend this party, if find myself standing around with his other former conquests from online dating, as who knows....I'm may be just one of a few female admirers in attendance, hoping for a crumb of attention.

Unless he contacts me again and makes a personal plea for me to attend (highly doubtful), I think it is a bad idea for me to go. Even then, it may be a bad idea. I will find something else to do that night. Even staying home alone with a movie is a better option.

Thanks again to Mirror for her tireless, generous and non-judgmental advice regarding how to deal with these entitled disappearing/reappearing men! And yes ladies, if you leave them alone they do often reappear. But please, before you let your heart leap when they contact you and you think it means "something", re-read the above article again...and again....and read the 5000 comments on the other thread.

Anonymous said...

Yes, the rotation. Its called spinning plates. A lot of guys in nyc do this.disappearing reappearing thing and many of them are hot and cold with one woman like this and keeping the others on a rotation. If your guy has a habit of disappearing for anywhere from one week to 3 months.. you're on a rotation ladies, all those weeks you where in emotional pain wondering he was romancing/sexing other women. Even married men do this where I live its not uncommon. Thank You so much for posting this Mirror, its very enlightening Im going to forward this link to all the ladies I know, most of whom are in this kind of rotation unknowingly.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
Thank you all, so very much. I considered yesterday a milestone day for the site, having reached the 5,000 comment limit on the first article on this topic - and this conversation is STILL going. To me, this is indeed a success, and one to be celebrated because it tells me that I'm doing something right here, something GOOD, and that means the world to me - it lets me know I'm on my path and contributing in a positive manner - so thank you so very much ladies.

@chk61,
I do agree that if you attended that party, it may set you back dear. I don't think it would make anyone feel good to stand in a crowd of others like that, making mental comparisons and whatnot (which we women tend to do), and waiting for a crumb of attention. I honestly think any woman in that situation would come out of it feeling bad about herself or just feeling bad in general from the experience. So I do think you're making the best decision for yourself on that one - and I doubt you're really truly going to miss anything, except lots of potential drama, by not attending anyway LOL.

Many thanks to all for granting me the opportunity to be a part of your lives. And many, many thanks to those of you that have given back and generously donated in support :-)

Here's to the conversation continuing and the message living on!

WomenPower said...

Dear Mirror,

This article above is a brilliant synthesis of your observations and dating advices.

I appreciate your critical thinking and the strength to see and share the painful truth in order to invite the beneficial change in one's life.

Thanks for stepping up and keeping this fantastic blog for us.

Cheers and warm greetings from Europe!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
Peter shared this one on the PUA article here gals. Wanna' see what a so-called modern day "pick up artist" truly teaches young guys to do with women? Check this idiot out:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/30120164

He was just denied a visa into the U.K. because his teachings are so abusively angled - and he's only 25 years old.

Makes me wonder - don't people even realize that a 25 year old man really isn't "seasoned" enough about women and life to "teach" others in the first place? And he's out there getting paid to "school" the youth on how to effectively do this...by forcefully grabbing women's heads and aiming them at his crotch, and sending pictures of him with his hands around their neck on Twitter under the hashtag #ChokingGirlsAroundTheWorld.

Seriously, these idiots are schooling men on how to be sexual predators, potential rapists and emotional abusers. This clown doesn't know the first thing about women, about what they need, what they want, what they look for in a man - or how to KEEP one happy.

I wish the USA would follow suit - and not permit men like this to earn a living teaching vile abuse.

Thanks Peter!!

Peter said...

@MOA and Ladies

Well done on reaching the number of women you have done over your time with this site. I for one as a reader and contributor to the site have enjoyed the wisdom you've shared on many subjects. I hope you continue to help other and reach more milestones in doing so. Thank you for the work you do on this site.

I for one am glad we took steps to do this. This PUA society is less deeply rooted here although it obviously exists or this man would never have a market in the first place. I hope this sends a message and prevents this kind of society from increasing in popularity.

I believe in traditional values and dating. I don't think age counts for the man I am but maybe that can't be said for others in my age group. It's to be hoped that this in some way does lead to men my age being swiped with the same brush so to speak. Men my age are not all stupid, inexperienced, arrogant or entitled. However my experience in life is different to almost all of the men in my age group that I know so maybe I'm disconnected to an extent. It's another element of "Modern Culture" that I'm not fond of. I've found time and time again that there are universal values and qualities that are appreciated the world over. There is an "Old School" for a reason, and it's not just because it was around a long time ago it's because it works.If there are rules/principles that work in many repeating situations in many cultures with regards to people then these rules or principles are key to "knowing people". PUA's as can be seen from this example alone are IMO at their base dysfunctional men to begin with. There can be now way to simply justify what they do as "giving men confidence". It has dysfunction at the heart of it. Having been exposed to many different types of successful men in many fields I can say that none of what these PUA's put forward is ever needed to get somewhere in life or get somewhere with people as a whole. If you suspect a man is involved with this in any way shape or form then filter him out, and remember it has dysfunction at the core of it. Take men like this as examples of that.

Anonymous said...

I was member on Match.com and other dating sites for a long time and I today took all my profiles down. I realized that a good man can not be found in dating sites, those places are reserved for losers looking for a situation. Women have the opportunity to conquer the world and fulfill herself as an individual, the days that we used to stand behind a man and think that our happiness depend on them are long gone. I'm starting my own business and from now on I'll be focus on my career. Stop waiting and wondering around ladies, these are tough times for love. Technology made it hard for good women and much easier for men, it's not joke! Work on yourselves, be the master of you, because in the end of the day you only going to have yourself to depend on. I'm 31 years old and I finally get it! I'd like to say MOA that your blog is very helpful and empowering. As matriarchs we should look after our young girls and educate them as much as possible. Ladies, share this site to all your friends, is time to fight back against all the abuse that is going on with women nowadays. Thank you so much for your wonderful work, sorry for the mistakes English is my second language. God bless you all.

odyssie said...

I read through all 5,000 comments on the other post and all I can say is WOW. On so many levels. Wow that our culture has fallen to this point. Wow that there are so many women going though this. And WOW MOA you give some damn fine advice. There were a few times where I was so struck by a comment that I had to leave it up, walk away from the computer and let it sink in. Thanks to everyone who asked questions and to MOA and others here who give such great responses...I'm learning so much.

I left a comment on the "Why/When to Use No Contact" thread, as Anonymous November 10, 2014 at 6:55 AM. I'm in the early days of a No Contact with an ex. It's been so hard to watch a man who was wonderful, great at wooing me and treating me well devolve into a confused little boy. It's all the weirder since he broke up with me, it's not like I was the one to end things.

One of my jobs is at a gym. In addition to teaching classes I also take them and my ex has been showing up to every class I take. Luckily not to any I teach...I guess he knows that would be way too hard for me to take. He arrives after me, doesn't talk to me, usually grabs the machine either right next to me or somewhere near me, and leaves the gym before I do. This has been going on for a couple of weeks now -- several classes.

Since he ended things I've been dating other people though I do miss him. But this recent behavior is such a turnoff. I can't tell if he's keeping tabs on me, working up the guts to say something, waiting for me to say something or trying to punish me. I don't really care either...I know what I want, a mature gentleman who leads and initiates. If he wants me to think about him, well it's working but probably not as he intended. I feel icked out. It's very difficult to watch this man who'd previously been a mature gentleman at the beginning of our dating do whatever the heck it is he's doing. I don't want to know him right now.

His only communication since breaking up with me is a quick hello text which I'm not responding to. I completely agree with the advice on this site that he needs to man up and apologize, or at least make it clear he wants to talk. The ball is in his court and if it sits there forever because he doesn't figure out how to pick it up so be it. If he wants me he has to romance me, is it really that hard to figure out? Meanwhile my feelings for him fade a little more each day.

The reality is so different from my fantasy...it's a total bummer. I have no doubt that we'll both find happiness...I was hoping it would be with each other.

odyssie said...

Oh btw he's a Cancer and I'm a Capricorn, if that matters.

I don't know if this is how the process works and he's just feeling his way through all of this as I'm trying to. Part of me still has hope that he'll step it up. If I'm learning from my mistakes he can too, right?

Anonymous said...

I just think that if its meant to be love will find you, you don't have to look for it. I agree with the post above saying that in the end of the day you only have yourself to rely on. As for dating sites, men don't take half serious as women does.And what an unnatural way to meet someone. Time to get real.

Anonymous said...

@Mirror
Wow, 5,000 posts! I have never come across such a long thread anywhere else. Thank you again for all your kind and helpful advice and support! And hopefully, you will never tire of us and continue your much needed work in the future.:-)

@Gem50
Oh, this seems to be the victory of lifetime. Not over him, but over yourself. Any other words are useless...:-)

@chk61
Yes, I agree, I wouldn´t go to the party either. There are several reasons: First, you would risk feeling rejected and miserable afterwards. Why would you want to do it? Second: Men like mystery, so why not let him wonder why you haven´t turned up? Thirdly: If he is at least a bit interested, your absence should prompt him to contact you when he realises you aren´t easily available anymore. And fourthly: You can spend some quality time with yourself and without having to dress up. :-)

My update concerning the dance trainer: Mirror, thank you for your tip about the telephone number. I´ll do that but later because I´ve decided to let him stew so I haven´t responded yet. Not because I would want to manipulate him, but I had such an emotional turmoil after meeting him that I just couldn´t imagine seeing him again in that state. Now I have calmed down and am ready for further contacts. On the other hand, I think my little absence will do him good LOL. I haven´t written all the details here, but he never actually invited me for a date (you might remember his ambiguous "invites"); he once let me wait for his reply for two weeks; on our first date he said that he loves his freedom above all (meaning I will come second) and also, he slightly put me down by telling me that he believes I certainly love fairytales (suggesting that I am naive - which I used to be but not anymore). For all of this plus considering my emotional state I will let him wait for my reply a little longer than he expects.

I wish you all a happy day full of smiles,
Hopeful:-)

Gem50 said...

Ladies,

Had to share this!

A secret reminder of why NOT to sleep with a man without first vetting his intentions and learning if he is worthy of YOU. Perfect! (I wish it was in yellow gold)

http://www.ilovesciencestore.com/promos/oxytocin-molecule-necklace.html

Have a great Friday everyone,
(hugs)

Gem50 said...

@ Hopeful,

re: trainer, You are doing exactly what you should - trusting your gut and taking care of YOU. You will see by doing this, you will be even stronger internally when you see him again.

You got this!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Odyssie,
"If I'm learning from my mistakes he can too, right?"

Anything's possible - but you'll have to let it play out without interfering. There may be a lesson here in all of this for him, so let him receive it. And in the meantime, keep moving forward with your life as you are. If he wants you, he knows where to find you. And maybe he'll figure out that he can always choose to stop playing the little game he's playing, and simply make himself clear instead :-)

chk61 said...

@Gem50: Good on ya, girl! Sounds like you have the Scorpio situation under control!

@Hopeful: Thanks so much. Everything you said makes perfect sense. I had made the decision to NOT go, then I thought, "well, maybe if I'm feeling adventurous and "hot" that night, I'll be spontaneous and make an appearance". Now, after re-reading what you wrote and letting it sink in, it is too risky for me to willingly step into a situation that may leave me feeling badly. I had been telling myself: "well, at this point you and D.M. are just friends anyway, and adults can be friends with exes, and hey, who knows who ELSE you may meet at the party, perhaps you'll be introduced to other people, and who knows what may come of that", etc. I was justifying doing more of the same, going to HIM, rather than having HIM come to ME. Even with friends, it has to be a two way street.

And I know from getting the rsvp's delivered to my mailbox just who is going, and I know for a fact there is at least one other woman he met from the dating site. My girlfriend estimates the number of attendees at "four", four women he may have met from online dating. ;-) It would be unsettling to be sitting on the couch where I spent several nights with the D.M. snuggling and watching movies, discussing singlehood with another one of his conquests.

I have noticed a change in me, just in the last week. In the next year, things are going to change in my life. With the D.M., despite his less than exemplary behavior I did feel we had a deeper connection. I am pretty certain he felt it too but his fear and insecurity or his ego is keeping him from moving toward more intimacy...and I really WANT a deeper emotionally intimate relationship with a man. Showing up to a party where I am just one of many female "friends" signals to him (and to myself) that I am willing to settle for less.

And Hopeful, it sounds like you have an excellent grip on the situation with the dance trainer! You are taking care of yourSELF! Yeah! That's the key to success and you sound so together, calm and relaxed because you are not willingly going out on a limb and letting yourself be putty in his hands. Kudos to you!

Anonymous said...

Do these men even get attached??? it seems we're all on here because we spent time with someone who began disappearing... don't men bond in the same way (by spending time and romance)? I just cant for the life of me understand why we're left feeling. Are they too?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Nov 21, 9:01 AM,
"don't men bond in the same way (by spending time and romance)?"

Actually no dear, they don't bond in the same way at all. Women bond through time spent and romance, which causes a large release of oxytocins in the brain. Men however, the more they mate, the more testosterone that's released - which causes them to want to mate more, with many women.

So those are the two dueling brain functions taking place. And when you venture into the bonding territory further, it comes to light that while women bond through time spent - men bond through freedom and time apart. It's the reason you hear many a man say "I need some space." The reason is because they want to experience a bit of freedom and time apart....to see IF they experience feelings for you during that time. In order for men to "feel" their emotions and experience them - they need room to do so.

When they're in the moment, sure they feel something. But the real test for them isn't what they feel when they're WITH you - it's what they feel when they're NOT with you. They take space and time apart to see if they miss you, if they long for you and desire to see you again and think about you non-stop. If during their time apart that happens, and they experience feelings for you during that absence, then it's like a gut check for them - they know they have feelings for you then. If they take that space and they don't feel anything for you - chances are they won't return for a relationship. They might return for sex, but not a relationship - or they'll just disappear altogether.

So in the end, it boils down to - if you want to know if a man feels anything for you - like it or not, you need to grant him the space to do so; the space to see for himself if he experiences any feelings for you. Because if you crowd a man and smother him with attention and never leave any space between you - he may end up confused and unsure of his feelings for you. Because if you do that, he can't miss you, long for you, or desire to see you again...he can't experience any feelings for you because you're all up in his face all the time LOL ;-)

Women "feel" the most during time spent together (which is why it's easy to get "clingy"), while men tend towards the opposite and "feel" the most during times of absence (which is why they ask for space). Hence the old saying, "Absence makes the heart grow fonder." ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks Mirror, this absolutely makes sense. This knowledge alone makes a lot of sense, still doesn't find excuse for these long ass disappearances that have been so trendy as of late.

Peter said...

@MOA and Ladies,

The interesting thing about Oxytocin is that a lot of other factors affect how it bonds both male and female together. How much love, trust and respect you feel towards the other individual have been found in studies to have a direct influence on Oxytocin levels.

In terms of sex men experience 500% release of Oxytocin. That's why most guys sleep after sex, because Oxytocin in large doses is a Sleep hormone. However It's what goes on male to female on a personal with regards to two individuals that affects the Oxytocin release.

If you love, trust and respect the individual you're attracted to then the release is increased. If these feelings are returned this is increased further still. Scientists studying Oxytocin have found:

-Sex with a man you love, respect and trust has an increased Oxytocin release than compared to a stranger. Why the used to call it "Making Love". It literally helps increase the love felt when the feelings are mutual.

-Talking on the phone with someone you love, trust and respect increases Oxytocin more than than it does with a man you don't.

-Receiving gifts from someone you love releases Oxytocin and not from those you don't love.
-Touch with a man you love increases Oxytocin. Cuddling, Kissing, Massaging, Hugging etc. Interestingly Hugging someone you love shown a massive spike in Oxytocin literally like you're getting a fix again with this individual after not seeing them.

-Visualizing or remembering time with a loved one releases Oxytocin at higher levels than remembering those you don't.

-If you said you I love you's then strangely every time you use this word to a person you love and have this word used on you..there is a spike of Oxytocin.

-Laughing with someone you love releases Oxytocin more than when compared to someone you don't.

-Long walks with a people you love increase Oxytocin.

-Eating sit down meals with someone you love releases more Oxytocin when you love that person than when you don't.

Peter said...

Cont...

There were two other interesting factors which scientists found about the release of Oxytocin in relationships. First is that the longer you take to build your relationships through friendship first, dating second and commitment last then more Oxytocin released during each bout, the longer the affects last and the more you want to have that individual in your life. A key aspect of this is trust, trust building with a loved one over time releases Oxytocin in itself. Studies found that if trust is mutual then both individuals experience release. If its not then this can decrease Oxytocin. It's this and the second factor which have lead to scientists calling Oxytocin the "Monogamy" hormone. Men get a massive Oxytocin release when they see the face of a woman they have feelings for. To put it simply if your man cheats he doesn't love you and mostly likely never will.If he disappears after a date or sex he doesn't love you. When scientists tested individuals who have been unfaithful especially more than once they were found not to produce as much or in some cases no Oxytocin at all.These people can't bond.

So ladies it's as Mirror says...If he disappears let him go, and let him go even more so if he's been out of contact after sex. More than likely you won't ever bond with these people. Also more than likely you will see these individuals cheat after they've split from you.

In terms of relationships you can use the phrase "what starts fast never last's, and what goes slow grows". Again as Mirror says the faster it starts the quicker it stops. Their are exceptions to the rules but not always.

If you take time to find a person you love and respect then move slowly the more likely you are to hit the jackpot. That's why a lot of solid relationships involve having romantic feelings and friendship feelings at the same time. It's what the science says if you find someone you're friends with that you love you're right for each other especially if it's mutual. Only time with those individuals can tell you that.

Weirdly enough studies also shown that Facebook and Social Media use(Including dating sites) increases Oxytocin output. Every time you look at facebook, a social media profile or online dating profile of someone you love or are attracted to then the act of that interaction produces Oxytocin. My advice is if you have a DM on any site get rid of him now, this is also a factor in online dating. I suggest avoiding it due to the number of players involved in it who attempt to manipulate your perception of them.

Lottie said...

Hi Ms Mirror,

Wow…5000 posts!!!. Ms Mirror did you ever envisage your words would ever evoke such a reaction amongst so many women when you started out?

Ms Mirror, it finally came together for me yesterday. I secretly hoped that Scorpio would come back. I understood and believed every word that you had written and I knew he was a bad apple, but I guess in the back of my mind I thought that he would see the error of his ways and change.

You see he ended things at the height of when we were both infatuated with each. He had hinted at a future/marriage & kids. He was doing a lot of the leg work but I was not bending over backwards for him, so I know he was invested in me and the attraction was mutual.

He portrayed himself as a religious man living his life strictly to his faiths rituals. But you see he was missing practicing the fundamentals such as compassion, forgiveness & humility.

I knew he wasn’t a player, I knew he wasn’t cheating on me or seeing other girls. I just knew that. But yesterday I read up on Narcissistic Personality Disorder that you had mentioned in your blogs.

My jaw dropped. He could not have fitted that profile any better. I was horrified.

Ms Mirror I have been born and raised in the west but I am of Indian origin.

His short marriage to a lady who came from a very wealthy family lasted all of 8 months before she left him. His recent engagement to a lady, whom had bent over backwards to accommodate him and his beliefs ended sourly….and then me.

He had a string of broken relationships. He portrayed himself as a religious man.
I have a brother and male friends……and that behavior would never be condoned.

His name his family’s name would be tarnished. I wish I had relied on some of the checks that are still in existence in my culture. [although not so much now…as everyone has become so independent and western culture has taken over].

The ability for elders to ask about prospective boys and girls families and backgrounds and even at my age to have a commitment from both families for us to date actually does have it's merits.

It sounds old fashioned, but there is so much value in these customs. It makes men accountable for their actions.

Saying that, nothing would have stopped him.

I read the description on NPD and he fitted most of the criteria. I knew he had an ego, but I didn’t know his ego was inflated to such an extent. He needed constant adoration [which I never gave] I know he was a Dr doing great work, but I felt I never wanted to praise him. I praised his work, but not him.

The crux of the matter is that these people are unable to form healthy long term relationships. They are unable to reciprocate. Everything is about them…they cannot empathize, they can pretend to [because they are very intelligent people] but everything is about them. And they are able to remove themselves from relationships with ease….makes them in my eyes, not human like. And unfortunately they cannot change.

When I read further, It made me realize, that he had no inner light of his own. He had to feed off others light. He was a dark dark man. They don’t process the same way as us [and I don’t just mean us females]

Because of their ego they are unable to seek help so they will never be able to change. It’s actually quite tragic.

All I can see now is a rotting man who only comes out at night – he is a vampire to me ….and that is an image so far removed from the fantasy version I used to hold of him.

And that Ms Mirror is the final nail in the coffin for this chapter.

Amen.!!

Lottie x.

Gem50 said...

@ Peter,
Nice to see you back contributing :) giving a male perspective. thx

@ the Ladies,
I just saw the last half of a piece on HBO channel called, "State of Play: Happiness." The bit I saw was of two football players and a psychologist talking about happiness, and then a round table discussion with a retired football player, a retired Navy Seal, a psychologist and moderator. Although this focused on men in the sports/team world, what I heard applies to all of us in our daily living and quest for happiness.

I don't watch much tv, and for some reason have HBO this month. I don't know if "State of Play" is a series, etc., but if you get the chance to see this Happiness episode, it's good information on what psychologists have found truly defines happiness, and how we can help our children live it as well. Hint: happiness is internal, not external -- and it's a journey for many of us to realize.

The definition of Post Traumatic Growth was interesting as well (never heard of it before), and the time it takes to truly recover from negative events was telling.

When we are hit with something that knocks us down and makes us question our selves and our future (ummm.... a disappearing man), the advice Ms. Mirror gives is the way to go. :)

{{hugs}}

Anonymous said...

Hi Ms Mirror,

I've not posted for a while but congratulations on the success of helping and reaching many on the DM site and sharing your wisdom to help us see sense and raise awareness, so we can be better in control of our own lives and happiness.

I'd just like to thank you personally for your help and support! :) It's such a great community here that you have helped to create and long may it exist in the battle against the epidemic of the disappearing man, that is perfectly summarised in the new piece you've written above.

Well I've been on here for...well it will be two years in the springtime and I have grown enormously, I still have challenges to face but view it as an ongoing process. I've not commented for a while about myself or others dilemmas, mainly due to exhaustion with it all in connection with one particular DM who brought me here in the first place... but I've continued to read.

However, I'm starting to regain strength and I'm somehow I've found some fight in me and I've begun taking new action to stand my ground with my DM after trying many things on here. I've no idea how this is going to play out yet but I'd put money on that it will reach it's cresendo over christmas. I've observed his behaviour from a far over a long period of time and I cannot pretend anymore that this person might want a relationship with anyone never mind me and I am no longer willing to participate in this on-going fiasco of pretense, manipulation and control.

I've recently taken new action, he may call my bluff or doubt my strength to stand my ground, probably based on my past behaviour of allowing him to come in and out of my life. My boundary is set now I suspect that he may try and undermine this and is doing this already trying to manipulate me through fear.

...but I'm becoming a fearless woman and I would rather be alone and be free to find someone who wants the same thing as me. I'm setting him free, he will have to come to the realisation that he will have to let me go also as I will not remain on his list of options.

I'm standing up for me and what I want, I won't settle for less anymore, I will walk away from this with nothing if need be and I will not remain as a hostage in this fiasco.

Anonymous said...

CONT

I think there will be a final test on my resolve prior to christmas but I'm taking one step at a time, standing my ground, I will not remain in his holding pattern and I will not be taking this into next year for sure. On a positive note I have christmas as a pivotal point as I know he will be trying to make a move for an arrangement around christmas. There will be an ending and new beginning of sorts I'm not totally sure how this is going to play out yet Ms. Mirror I just know I need to remain strong and be true to myself.

The big question I have for you is when you change your behavoiur for example: stand your ground, set your boundaries, look after yourself, be true to yourself, do not settle for less etc. etc. all this new behaviour and ultimate growth and spiritual development...

Is this really ENOUGH to then shift things to attract a quality man and loving relationship into your life? Does changing yourself for the better WORK in bringing in men who are ready and able to share and have fulfilling relationships with you?

My concern is for many years prior to finding your site, I've been doing lots of work on myself but attracting the same old, same old i.e types who do not want a relationship but they manipulate me into thinking they do. I end up dealing with it, it's a painful experience, then it's over. I will say I have learnt over the years and gained great insight and awareness, however, it's not been enough to attract a different type of man. It's not a case of WHO I CHOOSE it's more a case of WHO I ATTRACT. It's always a case of rinse and repeat with the new guy that comes along. It seems to me in my experience that you cannot control who comes along in your life (i.e the type of man) you can control whether you allow the guy in your life or not but in my experience when I stand up for what I want then I'm left with nothing.

I'm not afraid of being on my own, I'm living it most of the time anyway but it feels like a lose-lose because of the type of man I'm attracting. You settle for less you get nothing, you walk away you get nothing...then rinse and repeat with the new guy.

So again may I ask you how do you know that you are not going to attract the same kind of guy over and over when you walk away? because this is what keeps happening so far...

It's really frustrating and despairing at times... am I doing really rubbish?? LOL

thank you Ms Mirror

Anonymous said...

Gem50,
I too was dating a scorpio(lookingwisely4u). He was in his 50's with a 15 year old son. He to played a lot of games. In the two years of dating not once did he come to my home. I now look back and realized I never loved myself during the time we dated. I was so consumed with keeping him happy that I lost site of who I was. He was a somewhat controlling person....always checking on me to make sure I was home. Who I was talking to. It came to the point I could not take it any longer. He lied straight to my face when I confronted him about something. I had the facts in my hand. I have now realized I need to move forward....this is not a life I want to live. Moving forward and not turning back will be hard. I feel it will be easy as I do not expect him to contact me.

Anonymous said...

This disappearing/reappearing act is really harmful to the psyche and emotions of all of us. It's absolutely devastating to be promised all of these things and tossed away like forgotten trash. To all of the men out there "spinning plates" and thinking it's funny, it's not. This is why I no longer date at all. I cannot understand how men can feel that it's just fine to trample all over women--especially the women who truly love them. These are sad days for those who are looking for real love and have so much love to give to a man who deserves it.

chk61 said...

Hello all:

Just venting. Even though I had pretty much decided to NOT attend my D.M.'s party, I was toying with the idea of attending with a male friend. The D.M. would have no idea if the male friend is a romantic interest or a friend. I would have some support (since I would know no one there) and if we wanted to leave, we leave. I get to show up with my "guy", have some food and drink and some idle chit chat and heck, go to a party with a bunch of people I have never met!

Yet, today I am back to "I am not going" period. I have been accused of being wishy-washy in my life. ;-)

His parents will be there! They rsvp'ed YES. Who knows, maybe his kids will also be there. He invited his ex-wife. He invited all his best friends, none of whom I've met. So far he has about 30+ attendees. He invited at least one woman he met from the online dating site that I am aware of. I'm still scratching my head, why would he invite me? How would I explain to his parents how I know him? It all seems odd but maybe he just doesn't care and he knows I'm not the type to cause a scene.

My girlfriend thinks that based on the above, he could easily be dating someone new and SHE could also be there. My friend agrees with Mirror that he is doing it to surround himself with women, as an ego boost, "yeah, look at all the chicks who came to my party! Some of whom I dated but no longer!" But who would put himself in such a possibly uncomfortable situation? I can't imagine he'd invite me if he was going to be there with his new flame, if indeed one exists.

I realize that trying to figure him out is a waste of time, by the way. ;-) Just curious as to what others think. Yeah, it's a slow news day. Ha ha.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Nov 23, 7:38 AM,
"Is this really ENOUGH to then shift things to attract a quality man and loving relationship into your life? Does changing yourself for the better WORK in bringing in men who are ready and able to share and have fulfilling relationships with you?"

I believe so dear - as do many professionals. Take, for instance, the reality TV show, Couples Therapy. If you watch that show or view video clips online, you'll notice that the professional working with the couples dives head first into their individual issues FIRST - before really taking a deep dive into anything the couple is experiencing together as a whole.

Why? Because people each bring a set of ingrained behaviors, thought patterns, etc. into the relationship - many stemming from upbringing and childhood - that THEY need to understand, to become self-aware...so that THEY can stop repeating self-destructive behaviors and attitudes in their relationships with others.

Change always begin with yourself first dear :-)

And if you believe in the Law of Attraction, which states that like attracts like, similar energies gravitate towards one another, then it makes perfect sense that - when you change your energy, your vibe, your outlook, your perspectives, your beliefs - you then naturally begin to attract individuals back to yourself that have similar traits. You being to attract like-minded individuals - so if you're balanced and at one with yourself, you will most likely attract balanced individuals back to yourself that are also at one with themselves. Naturally these things don't happen overnight though. Sometimes it takes years to deal with our "stuff" and experience a full transformation...but it does happen eventually.

And at the VERY least - having a new healthy perspective will help you immediately spot men who do NOT align with your own beliefs and therefore, would NOT be a good match for you.

"I've been doing lots of work on myself but attracting the same old types who do not want a relationship but they manipulate me into thinking they do"

Are you paying attention to their ACTIONS versus their WORDS? And do you WALK AWAY from them once you notice the two are not lining up? Or do you stay and let emotions override logic and "settle" for less than you deserve, ignoring your guts alarm bell warnings?

When you become self-aware dear, you should have a better grasp on what's right for you and what isn't - but you also need the strength and resolve to walk away from the things that aren't. If you feel manipulated, that kinda tells me you're letting your emotions override logic - because emotions are what leads you down the path of manipulation (making excuses for bad behavior because of how you feel about the person, instead of seeing the bad behavior for what it is - and moving away from it). Using logic is what leads you away from those situations.

So maybe the questions to ask yourself are:

1) Are you letting your feelings for these men take control of your decision making process, instead of using logic to decide?

2) If you're using logic to make decisions for yourself, are you walking away from these men? Are you dumping them?

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

If you're not dumping these men and walking away, then you're letting your emotions make decisions for you. If you are dumping these men and walking away, then you're doing the right thing and you're on the right path because the reality is that we can never avoid these people entirely in life - there will always be people attempting to take advantage of us. The difference is walking away from them, instead of making excuses for them and sticking around for more pain.

You can't control others dear, but you CAN control your REACTION to them. In the end, your reaction is the only thing you can control. People will always try to victimize others, you can't avoid meeting those types in life. But you CAN avoid a future with them ;-)

"when I stand up for what I want then I'm left with nothing"

You're not left with nothing dear. You're left with freedom and possibility.

"You settle for less you get nothing, you walk away you get nothing"

Well, it's all in your perspective dear. You can see this situation as the "glass half empty" (negative) or you can see this as the "glass half full" (positive). From a "half empty" negative perspective, it feels like nothing. But from a positive "half full" perspective, you get freedom and possibility in exchange for walking away. You save yourself from pain by walking away - and you get the chance to have more time for the RIGHT man to enter your life.

It's all in how you look at it. It's all in your perspective, your beliefs, your attitude, etc.

"So again may I ask you how do you know that you are not going to attract the same kind of guy over and over when you walk away?"

Well nothing is a guarantee in life dear. But when you emit positive energy, you generally attract that right back to yourself once you are truly aligned with that perspective. And honestly dear, I think you're blocking yourself here. You're placing a ton of unnecessary weight on meeting a man - as if your life's happiness is all going to come from another human being. And you see the event of walking away from them as "being left with nothing" instead of seeing it for the positive things it brings into your life (freedom and possibility).

So while you have made many strides forward, you may want to give that some thought - are you truly holding a positive mindset? Or deep down, are you viewing not letting yourself be victimized by others as being "left with nothing" and something negative instead?

Because that's something to rejoice about dear - it's not something to view as hopeless, because freedom brings endless possibilities with it. The average woman nowadays kisses 72 frogs before finding her Prince. So doing the WORK of "filtering" and looking out for yourself is still very necessary. The work doesn't go away, it'll always be there. But the feelings you're left with afterwards, the feelings that you will resonate out into the universe after filtering a man as unworthy of your time and walking away from him - will be the feelings, the energy, that attracts the NEXT man to you.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

So when you walk away from a man, if you're feeling as if you're left with "nothing" - then via the Law of Attraction, the universe has to provide that energy right back to you...it has to provide more of "nothing." It has to provide "like" energy - "like attracts like." If you're emitting sadness, hopelessness and negative feelings after one of these events and that's the energy you're carrying with you and the vibe you're sending out into the universe...then yes, you will get more of that back. Because the Law of Attraction cannot discern good from bad. All it can do is provide more of the same. And the "same" I refer to, is the energy, thoughts and feelings you carry deep within your subconscious - every day. The things you ponder, worry about, fret over, ruminate on, etc. deep within daily are the things the Law of Attraction must provide "like" energy for.

So if you walk around all day worrying about debt and paying your bills - all the universe hears is "debt, bills" - and it returns MORE of that right back to you. I can't discern that debt and bills are bad. Which is why minding your thoughts on a daily basis is crucial.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@chk61,
"My friend agrees with Mirror that he is doing it to surround himself with women, as an ego boost, "yeah, look at all the chicks who came to my party! Some of whom I dated but no longer!" But who would put himself in such a possibly uncomfortable situation?"

Someone with NPD - narcissistic personality disorder - would do this:

"Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of grandiosity (either in fantasy or actual behavior), an overwhelming need for admiration, and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others. People with this disorder often believe they are of primary importance in everybody’s life or to anyone they meet.

In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:

- Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).

- Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

- Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).

- Requires excessive admiration.

- Has a very strong sense of entitlement. (e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.)

- Is exploitative of others. (e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.)

- Lacks empathy. (e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.)

- Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.

- Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.

Only 5 of those need to be met in order to be clinically diagnosed with NPD. And based on what I know about him from you sharing here - I see at least 7 he fits, if not 8 out of the 9.

Gem50 said...

@ Anonymous, Nov 23, 8:29p
Focus on YOU dear, not on him or on whether or not he will reappear. Focus on YOU. I understand it can be hard when you've focused on another person for a long period of time. These relationships are like drugs and we get hooked. So un-hook yourself dear by taking life one day, hour, minute at a time and just breath and fill yourself up with you.

Whatever it is that you like to do, take time out and do it. Focus on YOU, use Ms. Mirror's 30-day NC rule; and if that's not long enough (it wasn't for me) then take longer. Take however long it takes. You can do it. :-)

@ Chk,
You've asked for feedback. If there is one thing I have learned through reading the stories here, as well as through the results of my practice, is that Ms. Mirror has been 1,000,000% correct: SILENCE is a language men understand.

I wish you the best with however you decide to go with this; but I'm with Ms. Mirror on her advice to you and the potential ramifications. If you are not strong enough to say no to this comfortably, how strong will you be in his presence (and the presence of everyone you mention)?





chk61 said...

Thanks Gem50,

I guess I'm still conflicted because I did perhaps unwittingly encourage a "friends" type relationship with him and he was very helpful to me earlier this year. He does seem to fit some of the NPD characteristics (thanks Ms Mirror!) although I maintain these come from deep-rooted insecurity. I did experience and caught glimpses of his underlying soft, gooey center but through his insecurity, I think he's just fearful and it comes across as perhaps narcissism. Then again, I may be making excuses for him. Also, I have to admit, I am very curious to see how he is with his parents around, to observe his relationship with his parents and some of his friends...

I thought if he contacted me directly to see if I was coming it would be encouraging yet this has not occurred. Staying in touch with him as a "friend" could be beneficial in some ways but since I have not met anyone else, it could also be ultimately disappointing. On the other hand, I thought it might be empowering for me to attend and to make other possible connections at the gathering. This also may be me making excuses.

Silence would send a message that I am not interested in being his friend and could be the end, and maybe that's a good thing.

Gem50 said...

Aw Chk,
Silence doesn’t mean you are not interested in being his friend – or not interested in more, for that matter. It just means you aren’t interested in going to this little shin-dig where you’ve seen he has invited some past flames. It means you are different from the other women he has dated who have confirmed they will attend. It means you value your time and you’re not going to play into his hands. It means you have his “number,” and if he wants to stop playing games and, instead, be a man, then maybe you’ll be interested in seeing him.

You hold the cards, my dear, to the attention you give a man. YOU. And if this is how he expects to get your time, then, No, sorry Charlie, he’s got to do better than this.

I was thinking of my post to you on the drive to work today. I felt bad that I didn’t add the word, “yet,” after “strong enough,” because I know you are going to get there. 

And while thinking of it, all I saw was your “child.” When we don’t listen to our gut telling us situations are not good for us, I see the child in us terrified that the adult isn’t taking care of us. In this case, I felt it was your teenager (ego) popping its little head out to test the waters. Yep, in rehashing whether you should or should not go and creating scenarios of how you were going to do it (with guy friend – he won’t know if he’s my date or not, etc.) your teenager wanted to “play with fire,” get some attention, prove a point, stand in the face of danger and pain because she’s smarter than others and, even if it does go haywire, she’s “tough enough” to withstand it.

You know how your child feels when this happens? The child can’t trust the adult to take care of her – and then all hell breaks loose internally and we freeze ourselves.

So, girl, recognize what this hesitation is – put that little shithead teenager in her place (yes, she has her contributions to make, but not at this time), and pull into your womanhood. Your strength. Your knowledge. Your essence. Your Power.

And all this stuff about his insecurity doesn’t matter one ounce of beans…. I used to think that as well about Scorpio… my thoughts were all excuses – excuses made up in my head. If your DM and my Scorpio have issues, that’s their stuff to work on, not their stuff to use to dump on you or me. We are doing the work to be healthy, giving, loving, learning women/souls. If they aren’t in the same place, that’s ok, but it doesn’t mean we have to join them.

Scorpio asked my opinion about him a couple weeks ago, whether I thought his behavior with me was him being an ass. I refused to give him an answer. HE has to figure out his behavior, not me. Ms. Mirror has taught us that if we jump in and save these guys (i.e., every woman invited shows up at your DM’s party/I tell Scorpio what I think of his behavior) then they don’t have to figure it out for themselves.

So remember Chk, what matters is YOU and the kind of man you want in your life. How you want to be treated. How you want to share your life. It’s not about HIM, it’s about YOU!

And to all the ladies here, what I mean by that last paragraph is NOT selfish, self-centered princess bitch stuff. What I mean is we are trying to follow our journeys, and to do so, we must be true to ourselves and be with people who add to, not subtract from, our life.

We ALL got this! (smile)

Lottie said...

Hi Chk61, I hope you don’t mind me commenting, you sound such a lovely lady, but there were some things I wanted to say from reading your posts.

I wasn’t sure if he had contacted you directly about coming to this party, but you have just posted and said that he hadn’t. So he had sent a blanket email around without reaching out to you directly….hmmm.

If I am honest…it does smell of self importance. From what I have read, I take it you are not in constant communication and yet he feels no desire to reach out to you directly to explain why he would like you to come or make you feel welcome.

Equally inviting all those women….that’s odd, but it does appear that he wants to bask in all the attention of these lovely women who have made the effort to attend the party.

Ms Mirror is completely correct, he pretty much fits a lot of the tendencies for NPD and it's actually a very serious condition because it is quite untreatable.

All this attention is like oxygen to him….it’s how they thrive. Every action they take…is not sincere but so that they can be adored. And they will not/ cannot reciprocate. Everything is one sided. They have no concern about your thoughts and feelings and needs, but yet they need what you can give…which is your attention/adulation.

Chk61 you know the ins and outs of everything, but there is a lot of literature on NPD out there and it’s really interesting reading. It will certainly arm you with whatever choice you make.

Best Wishes
Lottie. x

Anonymous said...

Hi Ms Mirror,
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my dilemma and in such detail. It has given me lots of food for thought...

Thank you for challenging my behaviour or getting me to think about it and challenge my own behaviour...it is very valuable and useful thing to do particularly when you feel stuck in patterns.

It ‘s definitely true that our behaviour is influenced by our childhood, and behaviours, I agree it can be definitely ingrained and deep-rooted. I’m at the stage whereby I’ve worked hard for many years gaining insight and awareness and although this is so valuable and totally necessary in the process of change I believe this is only half the battle, as even with the best insight in the world I believe that you can still get stuck in behaviours, attitudes, thoughts and beliefs etc.

...and I think energetically these subconscious beliefs and wounds from childhood can still play out in the present but this is not to say that you shouldn’t try and change your behaviour and are powerless to these wounds. I think you need to attack it at all levels and vicious cycles need to be broken in various ways. I’m fortunate on my healing journey to have been guided to various people who can help facilitate my journey and I’ve learnt and trained in some myself.

Like I said it’s an ongoing process and a lot of WORK. I’m not placing too much emphasis on a relationship being the solution to my happiness, that’s not true at all. Yes I would like relationship to share my life with someone but right now I’m also working on the relationship I have with myself it’s just that I’m getting frustrated that despite doing the work the men coming along are still poor quality.

I think maybe that yes more work needs to be done and perhaps I’m getting to really deep layers now whereby previous years it may have been more superficial layers of healing.
I have to thank my current DM reappearing man as unknown to him he has helped me on my healing journey. Especially with this site it has influenced my healing greatly so thank you again.

‘Are you paying attention to their ACTIONS versus their WORDS?’
I’m fortunate with this DM that I’ve not been subject to hardly any bullshit or flowery talk the manipulation has been more about control. Yes I’ve been probably letting my emotions override my logic as these many disappearances and reappearances in that time I guess I have become emotionally involved and unfortunately emotionally manipulated. The good news is I’ve had plenty of time now to see the reality of the situation and I think that logic is beginning to triumph over my thinking and finally behaviour.

What is the most important thing to me now is living my truth and so far this guy has not aligning with it. I’m walking away I have put doubt in his mind and loosened the hold he has on me because I’m starting to feel freer. I now I have to walk the walk and I’m not going to let him have power over me by coming in and out of my life and not offering anything or be willing to recognize or identify with my feelings and needs. But I am and I’m going to be in control and have power over myself and my own needs now.
I’m in the process of building my strength and in the past I see now that I’ve not had the strength to walk away until the decision has been made for me.
CONT...

Anonymous said...

CONT

I’m getting stronger, I’ve set a boundary with him now that I’d never have dared before. I don’t think he’s taking me seriously yet but he’ll have to and he’ll find out when he tries to manipulate me some more.

I do flip flop a bit on days...and there’s the old me and the new me but the overall feeling is I’m getting stronger and more courageous. I think it’s just going to take more time and more work and like you say things don’t happen overnight but I feel like I’m on the right path...

So thank you Ms Mirror for your pearls of wisdom :)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
Just a little diddy about intuition from one of my favorite magazine's, Spirituality & Health, "How to Know if the Message is Real:"

http://spiritualityhealth.com/articles/how-know-if-message-real

If any of you are avid readers that enjoy monthly magazine subscriptions, that one is a monthly must-have.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everybody,

it´s evening here and I must tell you I have been looking forward to reading and sharing here all day. It´s always so comforting and learning to read the posts. Well, my update isn´t optimistic. As you may know, two weeks ago I spent 4 hours with the dance trainer (our second meeting) and it was fun, a lot of flirting, sharing of values, etc. At the end of the date (or rather cycling trip including a coffee break) he suggested exchanging phone numbers as he wanted to call me to invite me to a nice café in the city centre where "we would try delicious sweets". A week later he sent me an e-mail in which he wrote how beautiful our trip had been and added his phone number in brackets. (Did he expect me to phone him?) So I waited five-six days, sent him an e-mail of a similar content including my phone number. It was a week ago. Since then n o t h i n g. It´s been a week since my e-mail and almost three weeks since the trip. My gut is shouting. I again fell for a player, Ladies. Believe it or not. When I realised it yesterday (my gut can´t be wrong) I suffered a short and accute emotional crisis but fortunately, I am quite okay today although I can´t say that I am not deeply disappointed. The thing is to be able to switch from trusting him to not trusting as soon as possible. Now, being equipped with all the information from here I am not going to repeat the same mistakes. In the past I think I would even have tried to contact him first. No way anymore. Okay, I believed him but now I will behave in a new way. I presume he will contact me but later when he feels "safe" (the pleasant time we spent together on the trip won´t "count" anymore). My question to you is: Shall I completely disregard his contact? Or shall I answer and tell him something? If so, what? We parted in a most amicable way.

chk61
I agree with Gem. (And Mirror, of course). Silence, silence, silence. The best tool to cope with these men.

Have a nice time and thank you for hearing me,
Hopeful:-)

Anonymous said...

@ Ladies

just thought I'd share this quote for anyone who is currently suffering in one way or another:

'Not everyone you lose is a loss'

Peace Amen

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hopeful,
"Did he expect me to phone him?"

Yea, he probably did. But you already know that if you do that, you risk permitting him to use you in some manner - before he disappears again. In these cases, it's much wiser to just let the one's who aren't serious about a relationship disappear...before dragging you down with them in any manner. If it's a relationship you seek, don't bother settling for anything less.

"When I realised it yesterday (my gut can´t be wrong) I suffered a short and accute emotional crisis"

It's okay dear. I know how disappointing it can be to have your hopes lifted, only to then hear them hit the ground with a thud. And I also know that having a few of those in a row compounds things. But know this - you are NOT the only woman out there experiencing a string of disappointments. It is NOT you. In my opinion, this is a dating epidemic that's been helped along by technology, which is why women are now experiencing this worldwide...and not just in small local regions or singular countries. It's like a virus that's creeping across the globe unfortunately - and we are losing our men - REAL men - gentlemen.

"In the past I think I would even have tried to contact him first. No way anymore."

That's good because as you know, if you do that, yea he'll see you again. And yea, he'll take things even further for a time. But if he's acting like this already, chances are he's not really serious about a relationship, and he's most likely serial dating and seeking to casually date a variety of women sporadically, rather than settle down with one and commit.

In the end, if you were to call him and see him again - the only thing that'd probably change is that we'd be discussing this 3 months from now, and you'd have most likely suffered some emotional damage along the way - after his disappearance months from now.

"Shall I completely disregard his contact? Or shall I answer and tell him something?"

That's a personal decision at this point dear. Since things have been amicable, you could continue speaking to him if he contacts you again, but you'd need to keep everything in perspective, looking at him as someone to casually date sporadically, versus someone to settle down with. I wouldn't confront him about anything, because things are amicable and you're virtual strangers at this point still...so there's really no need for that.

I think you can leave the door open for him to return, IF you can keep this all in perspective and not get caught up emotionally in him. If you think you're going to get caught up emotionally, then it's best to cut him off. But if you think you can keep your emotions in check without suffering any damage, then it's okay to proceed, viewing him as a casual acquaintance, versus a man with relationship potential.

And above and beyond ALL of that above...I'll simply repeat this for any men stalking this thread (yea, you know who you are)...women are NOT supposed to pursue men. Mother Nature set it up that way, not me. Masculine energy is LEADING energy - it's a "take charge" energy. Feminine energy is SUBMISSIVE energy - it's a "passive" energy.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Having said that, women are attracted to masculine energy. Men who go about dating in a passive, submissive manner such as this man, throwing his number out there and expecting to be chased - reversing the roles and trying to force the woman into the masculine lead role while he leans back into the feminine passive role - are NOT attractive to women. Women do NOT want to date other women. They want to date men. They are attracted to masculine energy. If women want to date other women, they "switch teams" and do exactly that. But when you're a man dealing with a heterosexual woman - please do NOT act like a bitch guys. Do not take the passive role and exhibit feminine energy like this man is doing - unless you want to be looked upon by women as a man who's weak, submissive and lacks the self-confidence needed to go after what he wants in life. Just sayin' - think about it guys - and step back into the masculine role that Mother Nature has assigned you.

I'm going to digress here but this all reminds me of an episode on reality TV I watched recently where 3 men in their 30's, all male models working as waiters, went to get their eyebrows threaded. I was appalled. I mean, if they were working models then okay, I can see a need for some of that. But they're not full-time working models - they're freaking full-time waiters...worrying about what their eyebrows look like. And the one was just so lame, I don't even know where to begin. His girlfriend got him a new bartending gig, and on his first night the place got a bit busy...and he up and left in the middle of his shift, claiming he'd had a panic attack and cried. When his girlfriend came home asking what the hell just happened, he turned into a six year old boy making all kinds of excuses. He hasn't been able to hold a steady job for more than a few months at a time, and he lives off his girlfriend, and he gets emotional all the time. His buddy had a nose job, he saw the bandages, and cried. Seriously?? WTF guys? The women in that show are more masculine than ANY of the men. It's appalling.

So you know what Hopeful? When guys exhibiting feminine energy come into your life - be glad to move away from them. Because if you don't, you could end up dealing with a feminine man that can't even wipe his own ass, and expects the woman to support him and "mother" him for a lifetime like he's her child...while he spends all his time in the hair salon getting his eyebrows threaded, and crying at the sight of bandages LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Hopeful,

I've read your posts and the thing that sticks in my mind about the guy is the fact that on your first date, he's put it out there that he values his freedom more than anything or words to that effect.

Enough already...if I were you in your mind I'd think stick it then and shove your freedom where the sun don't shine.

He's done you a favour really and set his stall out. I think if you continue with this he will try and lead you a song and dance.

I've had guys leave me their number but then I give mine out. Most of them take up the gauntlett and be the man and call me, if he can't do that then save yourself getting involved.

I don't think a week is that long especially in his world and he may well call you or he may even ignore the that and message you...either way I wouldn't be that hopeful I think he has issues and you might be inviting a whole lot of trouble into your life.

...and like Ms Mirror says we would probably be discussing it in months to come...casually date if you can but I've found that these types of men end up frustrating and exhausting you...

so if I were you I'd save your energy for someone worthwhile who is willing to put in the work and pursue you and let the others go...

Anonymous said...

Hi Ms Mirror,

You know the Law of Scarcity - I know this is a strategy used in business as discussed on here but would you say that someone who has a business degree is well versed and understands in the application of using this tactic in relationships?? Would you say it is on the business syllabus the Law of Scarcity? Maybe not about relationships LOL but would a business man definitely know how to use this principle to his advantage in the realm of relationships?

So what happens in the case, well in mine a business type DM have the law played on me and then me replicating the same behaviour, what then? Obviously it's not worked their strategy. Do they realise that you're onto and playing the same game. What then? Is it stale mate is their hand forced in a way then that if they are really interested then they have to come forward and step up or is it a ongoing power struggle whereby they have to try and have the upper hand at whatever costs?

Thank you



Anonymous said...

@Mirror
Thank you for your quick answer. I agree that there are a lot of feminine men out there and life experience has taught me that I personally can´t get along with them very well. Perhaps a different type of woman could handle them better. E.g. in my environment I know one such man who got married to a woman who had chased him when they both were 22 years old (20 years ago). Later he confessed he was afraid that he would remain alone all his life so he was glad she had made him marry her. And he is very handsome by the way. And the truth is they are still together. With me he is awkward and our communication is not easy so we aren´t a match. In fact, I don´t understand this kind of men very well, their behaviour goes against my nature.

I am not sure about the dance trainer. He is a former professional sports dancer, so partly a sportsman actually. He used to represent our country in international contests so presumably he possesses a strong competitive streak, which is masculine energy. On the whole he came across as a masculine, active, dynamic kind of guy so I really don´t know... Because he never openly invited me if you remember. I would say that he is dating several women as you suggested and my next turn hasn ´t come yet. I have already swallowed my disappointment and forgiven him for uselessly lifting my hopes, after all that was my perception, maybe he didn´t even give me any hopes consciously. After all, right at the start of our first date he said he valued his freedom above all. (I said I value mine LOL.) And perhaps on the second date he understood I am a decent woman and if he is not a complete jerk he decided to let me go so as not to hurt a nice person. Who knows? We´ll see what the future will bring. The worst thing is that if he contacts me let´s say a month later I am sure I won´t know what to do. Mirror, what is positive about this experience is that I have no intention whatsoever to contact him; I am willing to let go of a man who isn´t seriously interested in me despite my attraction for him; and above all I am not analysing MY possible mistakes I might have made during the dates. What a relief in comparison with my previous dating. And all of this thanks to your valuable advice. Thank you again for everything you do:-).

Have a nice weekend and I´ll keep you up to date,
Hopeful

@hoplessromantic said...

MOA,

I met my DM the summer of 2009 at a friends Fourth of July party. I am good friends w/ his sister-in-law and I've met all his brothers and have met his mom and dad before at previous parties held at their house. I just had never met him due to his work. He took me out to dinner the next year for my birthday and out for drinks. I wasn't interested at all. So I never talked to him after that.

Ok, to get it moving here, I reconnected w/ this Gemini at the tail end of an abusive relationship via Fb. I had a dream about him and it was as though I was "told" in my dream to go find this person. We just chatted. He was in Israel for the past 3 years and I was in California for the past 2. I ended my horrible relationship and move back home to TN. I told Gemini this and we still continued to chat. Just as friends. He did, however have a gf. We never talked romantically. He did confide in me about his family issues since it was in the media here in the states. He was sad about it. No one to talk to about it in Israel. Or so he made me think that. That's the first time he disappeared. He told me he had to just go and hide which I was fine with. That was dec of 2013.
He reappeared the spring of 2014. He said he was single and we talked and said he was coming back to the states to visit his family and wanted to see me. So, this past July, we had a dinner date. It was great. He's amazing. I haven't seen him since he took me out for my birthday that one year. He told me I was beautiful and blah blah... Ok, we did end up sleeping together that same night. I know it's wrong but it happened. He left back to Israel the next day and I didn't hear from him for 2 days due to his flights and a 8 hour time difference. After that, communication became few and far between. And nothing at all. It sucked. I was hurt. I continued my life. This past November, he contacts me again before he's back in the states for his brothers wedding. He said he had been trying to contact me but I never got his messages. It was probably bc I blocked him on my Whatsapp messenger. But I didn't tell him that. He told me that he had been offered a job back here in the states and that he is moving back mid December. Great. Good for him.

Two weeks ago, his brother got married. He was here for a week. In that time, he had made an effort to come to my city and pick me up and take me on a date. An over night date. We had a great time, dining and going out for drinks. He told me that he would be back for good soon and that he wants to spend more time with me when he gets back. I believed him. Dumb me. He left back to Israel and I've heard from him twice since he's been gone. He called me once, I couldn't answer bc I was in a dr. Appointment and the other time, he texted me. Short but sweet. During this time, I feel him become more distant. I can't help to think it's something I've done. But, I don't want to jump the gun. I know he's not my BF, but I just don't know what I should do at this point. Let him go Into his cave again or just not try to communicate w/ him at all at this point and let him come back when he's back in the states in 2 weeks? I know there's a time difference and to move back here is a mission.
He told me he's ready to settle down and always jokes about wanting to marry me and have my kids. It's just confusing.

Thoughts??

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hopeful,
"Mirror, what is positive about this experience is that I have no intention whatsoever to contact him; I am willing to let go of a man who isn´t seriously interested in me despite my attraction for him; and above all I am not analysing MY possible mistakes I might have made during the dates. What a relief in comparison with my previous dating."

And that's really all that matters dear - your happiness and well-being.

Dating is always going to include disappointments, frustrations, etc. simply because of the interaction with so many different personality types, behaviors, etc. It always places us outside of our comfort zone and many times, sitting across the table from a lot of jerks LOL.

But as I've said many times before, you cannot control other people - only your reaction to them. And if you manage your reactions with dignity and grace, keeping everything in perspective, you can begin to breeze through the disappointments and frustrations - becoming stronger and stronger each time ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Nov 28, 11:34 AM,
"would you say that someone who has a business degree is well versed and understands in the application of using this tactic in relationships?? Would you say it is on the business syllabus the Law of Scarcity?"

If the focus is Economics, then yea, I'd say so, because it's a standard concept:

"Law and economics is one of the fastest-growing areas of applied microeconomics. It uses the standard microeconomic tools and concepts of scarcity, choice, preferences, incentives, supply and demand.."

It's even in high school economic studies:

"Economics is a semester course that explores the fundamental laws of scarcity, opportunity cost,
supply and demand, productivity and efficiency.."

"Maybe not about relationships LOL but would a business man definitely know how to use this principle to his advantage in the realm of relationships?"

If he's studied Economics in any fashion and has a general grasp of scarcity, supply and demand, etc. and he's smart - the yea, it's entirely possible.

"So what happens in the case, well in mine a business type DM have the law played on me and then me replicating the same behaviour, what then? Obviously it's not worked their strategy. Do they realise that you're onto and playing the same game. What then? Is it stale mate is their hand forced in a way then that if they are really interested then they have to come forward and step up or is it a ongoing power struggle whereby they have to try and have the upper hand at whatever costs?"

That depends on the individual dear. I'm sure they'll catch on and realize what's going on. And if they're genuinely interested, they'll step forward. That's how it's used as a filtering technique when dating - to filter half-interested men (those seeking sex and casual dating) from genuinely interested men (those seeking a committed relationship).

If it becomes a power struggle, then the man is most likely a bit immature and his ego and pride are then standing in the way of his success - and he's probably not genuinely interested in a committed relationship.

Relationships require an equal balance of power - a level playing field. If you encounter a man that's entering into power struggles for control, that's actually a red flag that he's probably not really ready for a truly committed relationship just yet...because relationships are not about control or controlling others. Real relationships require compromise, work and sacrifice. And a man that's battling for ultimate control of another is NOT showing signs of an ability to compromise, to do the work required and make the sacrifices necessary to please another human being. A man that's battling for control is showing that it's all about HIM.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@HoplessRomantic,
"I know he's not my BF, but I just don't know what I should do at this point"

There's nothing you CAN do dear. You don't have to "do" anything here. These things have to grow naturally and organically. If you attempt to "do" things to control the situation or speed things up or move things along - it will backfire. Because you cannot control others. You can only control your reaction to them.

"Let him go Into his cave again or just not try to communicate w/ him at all at this point and let him come back when he's back in the states in 2 weeks?"

Well, it's not as if you can stop him from going into his cave again. And it's not as if you can control anything he does once he's here either. You have no choice but to see if HE pursues YOU. And in the meantime, you keep living your life, moving forward and dating others. He is not your boyfriend, you are not committed to him, you can't control anything that's happening here, and you don't have to answer to him or explain yourself.

He's just a guy dear. One of many millions out there. Don't put all your focus on him and don't stop dating other men because of him - because you have no idea if this is EVER going to lead to a committed relationship anyway, ya' know? If you keep moving forward with your own life and this doesn't work out, then at the very least you haven't skipped a beat. You'll have suffered not setback. However, if you stop dating and you sit around waiting for this one to step forward...you could end up waiting forever and missing other opportunities for happiness.

"He told me he's ready to settle down and always jokes about wanting to marry me and have my kids."

Those are all just WORDS. It's his ACTIONS that will truly tell the tale here. He can smooth talk his way into next week but if he takes no actions to back those words up, then they're just words.

So ignore his words, and focus ONLY on his actions. And if his actions do not align with his words, then that's a red flag that he may be smooth talking you.

"It's just confusing."

It's not that confusing if you just focus on the facts. And the facts are that he's not your boyfriend, he's simply a guy you've dated a few times. You're not in a committed relationship with him, he's someone you casually date. He's said a lot of nice things, but so far he's not done anything about them. And he's disappeared in the past. Those are the facts - so keep everything in perspective around the FACTS, and don't get caught up in your emotions. Don't let yourself begin to behave or think as if you're in a committed relationship with him, because you're not. And realize that he's disappeared previously, so there's a high likelihood that he can do that again, regardless of his reasons.

Just keep it all in perspective dear, keep both feet on the ground here, and things will be crystal clear. It's when you start daydreaming and getting caught up in your hopes and emotions that you start to blend fantasy with reality and then the lines blur and things become "fuzzy" and confusing - because reality (what IS) isn't lining up with your fantasies (what MIGHT be) about the man.

Stay grounded in reality and things will remain crystal clear ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hoplessromantic, it sounds like your Israeli guy and their are genuine physical barriers. For him to contact you repeatedly over the years..I have family over there and it is really hard sometimes to hear from them. Keep letting him persue you and don't freak out during the time you are out of contact. You should def keep dating others but don't block him from getting in contact with you, that may even be why he is upset. He hasn't done anything wrong its just communications are difficult. I think Mirrors advice is right about allowing him to contact you first always and responding to him instead of reaching out.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ms Mirror,

Thank you your reply re: Law of Scarcity and the questions in relation to my personal dealings with my DM business man.

Oh yeah he’s smart alright but then so am I LOL well I’ve learnt to be...

Thing is I’ve started to let go of the guy because unless a miracle occurs then it’s not looking like it’s going to develop into a relationship and that’s what I want ultimately and I want to be free to find someone who wants the same as me.

God knows it’s took me a while but I feel ok about it and feel stronger to walk away and let him go.
The important things for me now and the behaviours that I’m exhibiting are walking away, standing my ground, not settling for less and being true to myself. These things are helping me to detach from this guy and see that he’s not in alignment with what I want or who I am anymore.

After many disappearances and reappearances I’ve never tested this man out in the way I’m doing now (the walk away method LOL) It’s like I’ve reached my limit, something has switched and all the fear is dissipating. Whether he is genuinely interested for a relationship I don’t think he is. It appears to me that being in control is more important than anything else for him but ultimately it is self-defeating behaviour if a part of you wants to be in a relationship.

I think he is used to having the upper-hand and I don’t think he will have been used to being challenged in the way that I’m doing now, especially based on my past behaviour. He knows he’s a catch and I think he thinks he holds all the power but a miracle has happened for me and I no longer feel frightened of losing him – it feels great , I feel stronger in myself and it is more important to look after me and that's what I'm doing.

‘If it becomes a power struggle, then the man is most likely a bit immature and his ego and pride are then standing in the way of his success - and he's probably not genuinely interested in a committed relationship’.

I think it is bordering on this now the power struggle, as I regain my power. Even though you weren’t necessarily describing him here, I think you’ve summed up nicely what I strongly suspect is going on with him. He’s definitely not immature though but in terms of relationships – yes.

Quite frankly this one could end up on his own unless he relinquishes control. He’s in his late 30’s and the clock is ticking LOL then BOOM you’re not such a catch anymore because the younger boys have taken your place LOL.

‘Relationships require an equal balance of power - a level playing field’.

Well previously it’s been totally out of balance and tipping in his favour LOL but now I’ve reached my tipping point and I’m starting to regain my power

‘If you encounter a man that's entering into power struggles for control, that's actually a red flag that he's probably not really ready for a truly committed relationship just yet’

Boom! Spot on Ms Mirror, I don’t think he is but in a way me finally admitting this to myself instead of pretending he might be and hanging on, I’ve realised I don’t want to hang on anymore and quite frankly I’m actually starting to ENJOY this power struggle, not because I’m playing games but it feels good to suddenly feel powerful and fearless.

Can’t believe I’ve got to here and can’t quite believe that I’m writing this that I’m enjoying these final moments as the process of me letting go and being free from the wheel of fear that’s been steering my life.

Boom it is 'all about him' what I don’t understand though morally he seems to care and about injustices in the world and have a conscious about right and wrong but it does not seem to translate onto his relationships, not that I’ve seen so far. Does this mean that he can’t be a narcissitic because he is caring on one hand...or is it he just down right selfish in relationships?

He’s a cancerian also and I’ve read that they can be emotionally manipulative, I suspect this to be true also in my experience with him

Thank you MS Mirror

@hoplessromantic said...

MOA,
Thank you so much for your feedback. You are exactly correct. I have been trying to focus on my work more and I even went on a spontaneous date this past week w/ a guy my friend has been trying to set me up w/. We went rock climbing and hit downtown Nashville afterwards. It was nice. Although he wasn't exactly my type , it was nice being able to go out and experience new things and meet new people. We have texted back a forth a few times but that's about it. I don't see it going any further. At least I put myself out there.
I will continue to let my DM reach out to me. I know him being far away is difficult and I'll always let his actions speak for him and not his words.
To anonymous that responded to me as well, thank you for the advice as well. I know he can't always respond to or write. He's there for work and usually works 13 hour days. That's fine. He'll be back in 2 weeks for good so I shall let you all know how it goes if he does decide to reach out to me again.
Thank you again for the amazing advice MOA.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,

Thank you for your work on this website and for taking the time to respond to your readers. You're brilliant, please keep up the good work!

I'm hoping you'd be able to help me out with my situation. I met an Aries guy slightly more than a year ago, at a social function. We had a nice conversation during the event but didn't exchange numbers. He emailed me after that to say that he enjoyed talking to me and hoped to keep in touch, and left his number. So, that's how we started 'talking'.

I've noticed right from the beginning though, that he takes ages to respond to text messages (sometimes more than a day). he's a very busy man in a high powered position, plus he has tons of hobbies, so he could just be genuinely busy. He also seldom calls or asks me out directly. So I suppose he's never given an indication really that he'd like to pursue me romantically. He used to talk a lot on text message though, telling me about his weekend, asking about mine, even sending me pics of what he gets up to. However, I got sick of this after a few months and pulled back a little, since then he's stopped talking so much on text message too. :(

He also likes to suggest that we do things in the future, but the annoying thing is that he doesn't follow up! In the beginning, before I knew of this website and thinking I'll take the "just get to know him as a friend hence there is no need to play games" route, I'd gently prod him about some of his suggestions, and it is only then that he will make it happen. And when it does happen, he'd be the perfect gentleman, paying most of the time (I've offered to chip in for small things here and there). He has also treated me with utmost respect, very attentive, asks questions about me, opens doors, pulls out my chair for me etc. I'd also like to add that he's not tried to make a move on me, although he does touch me briefly eg. Putting his hand firmly but gently on my back when leading me somewhere.

What's frustrating is that he has a habit of leaving me hanging in the middle of our text conversations and disappearing for weeks. Twice, I've gotten fed up and decided not to initiate any more texts and both times, he's come back after a month or so. This was before I came across this website and both times, I responded as I usually did (ie. I didn't disappear), just acted normal and we'd start talking again. He was also first to add me to his social networks (LinkedIn and Facebook), though I'm not sure if that means anything. Also, I'm not sure if this is a red flag but the first time we hung out, he suggested an overseas trip to a country that he regularly travels to for work. I was taken aback and it must have shown on my face, because after that he quickly added "we'll get a 2 BR apt". Lol. As you can imagine though, it's been more than a year and this trip still hasn't happened, though he's bought it up a few times since. Each time, I've indicated that that would be nice and I'd be keen, but nothing's happened so far.

Anonymous said...

I just had a man who was me in the male form, quite literally. He wasn't my knight in shining armour, he wasn't perfect, it was actually his imperfections that I started to fall in love with. He is moving in two months and he is SO caught up in his own world though of "poor me every woman cheats on me" that he refused to see the one truth I tried to show him, that I would have been faithful. Deep down he knows it, but, I think sometimes men are worse off than women when it comes to their own armour being destroyed. The man in question has been married 2x now, (me too) and both cheated, (mine too) and one of them was with a friend/acquaintance (mine too- best friend) and all he has known was long term marriage and his desperate want to have his family. I asked him one time "what have you always wanted from a woman but, never gotten?" he said "forever" I asked him what he wanted for his life and where he saw himself in a few years and he told me he would have a wife that didn't cheat and his family and a house in the mountains on huge lot of land etc. So btw- he is a Taurus and I Leo, and I didn't really so much fall for some of the bullshit, but, I believe he was being real that time. I am a valuable woman. I don't have much materialisticly, but what I do have, if I'm willing to share it, you are damn lucky you got me. And I believe he knew he found exactly what he was looking for in me. However he was SO HELLBENT on the Long Distance thing that, he purposely sabotaged our relationship yesterday. I know it was on purpose because the lame thing he did to pick a fight, and his sudden attitude towards me and everything etc.* reeked* of desperate insecurity and attempt to shield his own armour. I know it has nothing to do with me. But it still hurts just as badly. And (I actually had a laugh at what he did because it was so ridiculous that I couldn't help but crack a joke about it before I stopped speaking) I know he was probably not expecting my response and he IS probably counting on me to reach out first. At this point he has only seen the gentle nurturing Lioness, he has never seen the fierce hunter. And a Lioness will most always go for the throat to kill. But, I am not. My armour is dented from all the inflictions but i never took it all the way off. so I think it's just being broken in that is all. It's not shiny and new, and it's got a few imperfections, but it gets the job done. It's very hard for a woman to not take it upon themselves. I know because I had to stop. I almost let him take me down his spiral. I wrote a lettter to myself and I listed a TON of my "why I am valuables" and it's funny because looking at it, gave me new perspective and a little more will to get back in the fight. I still think this man may be my match, and I will sort his butt out if he does come back. but if not, at least I know more of what to look for in a man next time!
-This article was AWESOME. I have been reading several blogs here, and each one only confirms more and more where I stand is correct and also helped me see what I did wrong too. (I gave myself to him too soon I think...he used a little trickery on me- we had been talking about a month with a little break in there for like 2 weeks) But anyhow, just wanted to say this was amazing awesome powerful and you ladies are all great and Aphrodite, personally from woman to woman- heart to heart- Thank you.

Anonymous said...

~Gem 50~

I enjoy hearing about your antics as well! Lol there is nothing better than seeing an ex and he looks like poopey and you KNOW it's because of them, and they are so dumb that they didn't do right by you. My first ex-husband cheated ALL the time, ended up with my best friend! Oh yess! Guess who delivered my pizza the other day while I was working in my barber shop! :D

Mltn said...

Hi, all, checking in. My DM was my coworker and best friend of 7 years who went hot and cold and "ghosted" on me. We still work together.

In a few weeks, it will be a year since our last personal conversation, since I cut him off. I honestly would never have believed that I'd never hear from him again, with how often he communicated with me before our friendship became romantic/sexual, but there you are.

I've dated a bit, and continue to be confused by how men are so highly intense and enthusiastic at the beginning and then drift off, though thanks to MoA I know how to recognize it and not to be taken in by it. My most promising relationship fell into that weird territory where he was constantly texting me but not making any plans to see me. When I stayed up all night on the phone with him after a friend of his died, and then didn't hear from him for 3 weeks, I was all done.

This time of year is always hard for me, and the "anniversary" of the breakdown of the thing with coworker weighs on my mind. Unfortunately, I'm currently supervising him on a project at work. What absolutely blows my mind is that he has been refusing to respond to my communications on the project, which is solely work-related and usually by email. I'd actually be interested in any insight into why he will not communicate with me on a professional level, since I tend to think that I'm the "wronged" party here and I'd think he'd be relieved to face no professional consequences for his behavior toward me (I have the power to get him "blackballed" from a lot of projects at work, but I'm better than that).

If you ever want to know how self-centered people are, though, here's an example. Not one person, including our close mutual friends, has even noticed that CW and I haven't spoken in a year, that we're never together, etc. My boss put CW on this project without asking me, assuming that we are good buddies. Everyone is so wrapped up in themselves that they don't notice what's going on with you.

Anyway, hope all is well with the ladies, and that 2015 is a fresh start.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mltn,
"I'd actually be interested in any insight into why he will not communicate with me on a professional level, since I tend to think that I'm the "wronged" party here, and I'd think he'd be relieved to face no professional consequences for his behavior toward me"

Sounds a bit immature dear, as if he cannot handle the situation in a mature, professional manner - and instead is "acting out" much like a child would. Or it's guilt. Guilt over the situation may be hindering him from "facing you" :-(

Gem50 said...

hi Mltn! So nice to hear from you.

CW's behavior could be for several reasons, you'd need to know more of what he's doing elsewhere in his life to gauge better. But if he understands how the team selection was made by your boss, and not by you, my gut feeling, and remembering what you had shared previously about him, is he's acting out like a child to get your attention and a reaction from you (children sometimes act out to get negative attn. from their caregivers in order to get ANY attention from them).

And I'd say he's doing this because your continued success at work and your ability to move on from his behavior without a skipping a beat is driving him nuts.

He just may be having the same "anniversary" thoughts as you -- look at how many stories women share here of a DMs reappearance @ yearly intervals -- I believe Ms. Mirror has one that comes back EACH year lol. His bewilderment of how you weren't (outwardly) phased by the breakdown could be getting the best of him, and he's not doing a very good job of hiding HIS emotions now.

So, my advice is if you need something from him that is work related to this project and he refuses to respond, I'd address it with him professionally. I'd ask him if he received your inquiry, and take it from there. If no, you need to figure out why. If yes, ask him if there is a reason why he hasn't responded. NEVER let him see you sweat; keep a smile on your face (even if you have to fake it); and keep your responses and actions all business. No matter what he says, keep it business. You can always address anything he says later, after you've had time to think.

What an interesting little behavior coming from him; I'm curious to hear what others thing.

And, to your comment that no one noticed that you and CW haven't spoken in a year, that is a credit to you both. Work relationships can get terribly ugly when they turn sour -- you missed a bullet my dear. PHEW!

Anonymous said...

Hi Ms Mirror,

Do you think there's a any truth in men having anniversary moments a year on?? Do you think they reminiscence like women do?

In my case with my DM I've lost count the number of disappearances and reappearances he's made this year but it's coming to a year since we actually saw each other last (long distance ish). I've drawn a line under it best I can but I think he will be in touch coming up to christmas and obviously that can be a reason in itself.

thanks

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 2, 1:29 PM,
"Do you think there's a any truth in men having anniversary moments a year on?? Do you think they reminiscence like women do?"

I do believe that's true - after all, men are human too, just like us ;-)

And speaking from my own personal experiences, I've seen this play out many times firsthand. Certain times of the year evoke specific emotional responses and memories in individuals, as does music, scents and smells, etc.

Now not everybody takes action on those emotions once they're evoked. But I do believe everyone experiences memories associated with those things once they're evoked.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, Thanks for all the great articles!! I have a question... What do you do when your DM possibly thinks you're mad at him/ don't want to talk to him because you've ignored the one email that he sent in 2 months? I mean, I'm not mad at him and I do want to talk to him but I worry that he is afraid to contact me after so much time? It's something I keep thinking about and it's driving me nuts :( .. Do I respond with something very short to that one email that he sent? Thanks in advance, Mary

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mary,
Well here's the thing - he's a disappearing man. If he's done it once, he'll do it again because these guys aren't ready for relationships, they don't want them, which is one of the reasons they've disappeared in the first place. Disappearing men aren't looking for commitments. So it's kinda' pointless to wish for the to contact you again -- so that they can disappear again, ya' know?

Men that are genuinely interested seek the woman they desire out. Whether they think she's upset or not. And good men definitely seek out women they're interested in that they think are upset with them...to apologize to them, make things right, and put things back on track.

So when you have a disappearing man that isn't contacting you, that should tell you something, ya' know? If he cared, he'd contact. :-(

You're free to do as you please. But realize that when you pursue a DM, instead of HIM pursuing YOU, you're willingly placing yourself at risk of being used and discarded by him. Because when you accept poor treatment and you take a man back without HIM stepping up and doing the right thing, which is apologizing, you basically signal that it's okay to treat you poorly, because you'll still be there no matter what and he won't have to do a anything to make things right...because you'll overlook all of the bad he's done.

So if you want to contact him, that's up to you. But if you do that, you have to realize that you put yourself at risk of being ignored entirely, or worse yet, being used and then watching him disappear weeks from now again anyway. If you think you can handle either of those outcomes, then I guess you could proceed if that's your choice.

But I do not suggest even considering communicating with these men again until they PROVE themselves as genuinely interested by making repeated attempts at contact, and then offering an apology or an invitation to talk things through - because that's the RIGHT thing to do, and they know this. And when you have a man that isn't even willing to do the right thing when dating him, that signals that spending a lifetime with a man like that would be absolute torture. And I see no reason to wish for that.

Again, if he thinks you're mad at him, yet he does absolutely NOTHING about that, does absolutely nothing to try to fix that...that tells you something dear. And my suggestion would be to listen to what his ACTIONS are saying, because they're not signaling good things.

A man who genuinely cares...actually SHOWS you that he cares.

Anonymous said...

yes I agree with Mirror here... A lot of men "play" like their upset with you so they don't feel so guilty about not contacting you in several months because lets be honest, their just not into you and they kinda want you around for their ego gratification. I think its more than just the man isn't ready for a commitment they disappear because their not interested in you or they are playing a game to get you to chase them so they can dump on you easily. My brother isn't interested in a commitment now because he is between jobs, yet he still manages to persue the woman he loves and calls her regularly, hangs out with her when he has money and will even manage to cook for her if he doesn't. she doesn't mind because he is treating her well. I have seen my brother treat women terribly (the ones hes not interested in!) and deliberately then joke about it with his buddies but those don't last long because he feels guilty so then he pulls a disappearance to the other women, when in fact he is just not into them. Honey, listen to Mirror, when a man is GENUINELY interested and feels real chemistry or connection with you he will not disappear for long and when he does your best off staying gone.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,

Thanks so much for your fast reply!!!! It really helps. I've been able to stay NC for 71 days now because of your site and all that you've written. I keep reading and reading and reading here, and for the past few days I have had these crazy thoughts about 'what if he thinks he is mad at me'...... so thank you so much for your reply. It helps me to stay quiet.

I've quite a history with the DM, he has gone disappearing a couple of times before but he always returned, full of promises that he would never go disappearing again. I find it hard to understand how someone can proclaim his love for me and then in the next moment, he suddenly disappears. Well, this time the disappearing also has to do with the fact that I stopped having sex with him... I wasn't sure about his intentions, I knew he was going to disappear again, and I wasn't sure about his 'I love you's' and like you've taught us here, "look at a man's actions"...

I guess I had hoped that he would return this time because he realized that he truly did love me and that he wanted more than just sex... :/.

I do know that he is still checking his email account to see if Ive responded to his lame email which I haven't (thanks to the wonderful advice on this site). It makes me sad that I've fallen for his "I love you" lies for so long and that , apparently, it was truly all about sex for him!!

I wish I could stop hoping for him to return, but I don't know how. So far, he has always returned but it has never been this long.. and I shouldn't even 'hope' for his return, yet I always have this nagging feeling that there is a chance that I'll see him again also because he lives quite nearby. In Wintertime it's relatively easy for me to avoid him because I stay inside most of the time

Sometimes I just want to yell at him that he is acting like a female and how unattractive that is!! I keep reading the parts where you say that the male is supposed to chase and not the female. I know he was surprised some time ago when I stopped initiating contact and that I no longer called him crying and begging.
Anyway, I'll keep in mind that "a man who genuinely cares... actually SHOWS you that he cares (even if he is scared, right?)" . He would try several ways to contact you if one way doesn't work?

Thanks again for this great website and all the advice that you offer, I never could have done this NC of 71 days (and counting) without all the articles and comments here :)
Hugs! Mary

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mary,
"I'll keep in mind that "a man who genuinely cares... actually SHOWS you that he cares (even if he is scared, right?)" . He would try several ways to contact you if one way doesn't work?"

Yea, that's what I believe anyway. And I've seen it. I've seen many a man act like a boob, then jump through some crazy hoops to get back into a woman's good graces. But acting like a boob is one thing. Being downright ignorant is another. In the cases of downright ignorance, there's no reason to invite that back into your life, because every woman deserves better than that.

And remember, just like in the vampire movies and in True Blood - evil has to be "invited" in dear. That's why vampires stand outside the doorways of homes waiting for an invitation to come inside.

Don't invite evil into your life, and don't open the door and let it walk right back in ;-)

Anonymous said...

So, the level of a guy's interest can be measured by the time he takes to contact women? Like, the guy that takes weeks to contact is more into you than if he took months to do so? Confused.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everybody,

well, I promised you an update about the dance trainer but nothing has hapenned. Crickets. The good thing is that this time crickets are on my side too and will continue to be LOL (Mirror, many thanks to you again for your navigation; if it weren´t you, I might have fallen for his trick and contacted him). I have thought about the whole thing again and with the benefit of hindsight I guess I must have been misled by him all the time. I must have fallen for his charm and stopped thinking with my brain in his presence LOL. I know, it was nothing serious, we have only been on two dates. On the other hand, the dates were several hours long and successful and I was sooo attracted to him and we had been corresponding for weeks before so I quite miss him - or rather - my illusion of him. I´d like to ask something. As you know, at the end of the second date he told me he would like to take me to a nice café in the city to taste delicious desserts they serve and suggested we exchange the phone numbers. I said yes. 5 days later he sent me an e-mail appreciating the date and enclosing his phone number in brackets without asking for mine. As you suggested I waited the same amount of time and sent him an e-mail similar to his icluding my phone number in brackets. Before I sent it I had been stalking him a bit (I know... but it was a kind of safety measure) and he had signed in numerous times daily (it means he must have been waiting for my e-mail, he can´t have been indifferent). After he got my e-mail he didn´t sign in a single time. From my previous stalking I know he corresponded only with me, at least from the address I knew. However, two weeks have passed since and he hasn´t phoned me. I have given up my hopes but his behaviour is confusing, isn´t it? I don´t understand why he was so eager to get the e-mail with my number and then crickets. He could disappear after the date, couldn´t he? I know that it´s no point in analysing his behaviour but still, why did he behave like that? Mirror, what´s your opinion, please?

I would like to conclude with something cheerful but the only words that come to my mind at this point are: Be cautious and always look after you because some of these men are really... you know what.LOL
Hopeful

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 5, 2:22PM,
No, the level of a mans interest can be measured by whether He PURSUES you or not. If a nan pursues you, he's interested. If he doesn't and you have to chase him around, chances are he's not genuinely interested.

Anonymous said...

Thanks so much both @Mirror and @Anonymous, I've copied/ pasted your replies and will keep rereading it to stay strong and silent !!!!! I'm so grateful for this site !! xoxoxo Mary

Anonymous said...

Dear mirror, I am in my fifties and have been single for 7 years. I am ready for a permanent relationship with someone and it is what I desire for myself, with the right person. I broke up with my BF about 6 months ago because I didn't see marriage In our future, although he stated it would be with me, just not ready yet. He didn't want to give me a timeline or anything concrete, so I moved on and I am dating other people.

A few weeks ago, the ex came over to do some things to my house that he had promised to do, as I had done a favor for him a month before. I had a friend pass away that day and didn't feel like having him come to my house. He said if I wanted to go get a drink and talk, he'd be available. I fully expected to just go to a café' and keep it short, but instead he wanted to pick me up and go to where we first met. When I went to hug him at the end of the evening, he kissed me, passionately.

Fast forward 2 weeks, I am still seeing him, but there is no sexual contact . (Not that he didn't try... offered several times that I could spend the night.) He is taking me out for nice dinners, helps me get a christmas tree and put it up, watches a movie with me, mentions he ordered me some new panties (he saw mine as I bent over and thought I needed new ones), says "love ya" in a text, and calls me, babe. There is no sign that we would not continue to see each-other, although we both are cautious as we don't want to go through another break up. I am seeing other people, too, but I never mention it.

Finally, it gets to a head because he keeps mentioning sex and I told him I was not going back to the way we were... He says that's fine and understands how I feel. I asked him what were his intentions and he states nothing.... I am the one who called him about fixing stuff at my house. I said yes, but you are sending me signals that you want to keep seeing me and offering to do this and that for me... It's confusing. He denies that he was sending signals, but states he does love me but nothing has changed about getting married right now, until he feels financially ready. Otherwise he would get married and it would be to me.

I told him I was seeing other ppl and he implied that I just want to "get married to anybody, as long as I get married". That is not true... I want to be with him but I told him that I feel a man with good intentions would not leave a girl hanging that he loved, but would rather make her feel secure In their relationship . He said he hoped to be better off financially by next year, but still made no real commitment or date. Just stated that "Christmas sure went down the tubes fast". What do you make of all of this mirror? Why does he continue to wine and dine me ... He knows by now what I expect. We have been through this same scenario at least two other times since we broke up and it always ends with me saying basically ,"see ya". I guess I keep thinking he'll propose this time. He's not getting sex, so why does he bother? He's just wasting his time and money....

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hopeful,
"why did he behave like that? Mirror, what´s your opinion, please?"

This online dating thing has changed the face of dating entirely, and not for the best if you ask me. It's like a game of tag - "Tag, you're it!" And to me, that last email was the tag - meaning he thought "you're it!" As in, "now it's your turn to chase me." And I don't get why so many men do this at all. It's as if once they put in a bit of effort, they're done and they feel the need to shift the entire balance by forcing the woman into the male lead position - and then the woman, if she takes the lead, is usually slammed with the "crazy" label some time later on, after many failed attempts to chase the man down. In my opinion, it amounts to shooting yourself in the foot. You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

And frankly, the way he's acting now...is only signaling to me even more that if you were to chase, this guy would disappear eventually I have a feeling. Because to me, this comes across as a battle of wills - for power and control. He wants to shift you into the position of being the pursuer, so he can sit back and then have the ultimate power to control things by deciding whether to submit or not to your lead - which is a complete and total flip-flop of male/female energy.

Again, this completely boggles my mind - but way too many men are more than happy to take the feminine, submissive stance when dating nowadays, instead of being a man, grabbing the bull by the horns and taking the lead. Or, if they're not interested at all, walking away period - without dangling carrots (his phone number) out there for you to chase after, because he's bored in the meantime and thinking "Hey, maybe this will be entertaining, who knows."

When guys do this, it just reeks of a game to me. Masculine energy is leading, feminine energy is submissive - period, case closed. And when a man attempts to force you to take the lead and exhibit masculine energy, while he leans back and becomes submissive and exhibits feminine energy - to me it's a red flag that time spent with men like that is a waste of the woman's time. Because once again, genuinely interested men, and men that are gentlemen, are more than comfortable being the men they are, slipping into their God given lead role, and going after that which they desire.

This guy may be a nice guy in many respects, but clearly, he's playing a game here and this has now become a battle of wills...."who will break down and make contact first" - which is completely unnecessary because Mother Nature has already assigned that role. And the one who should take the lead, is the male. No woman should have to grovel for a date. And doing so isn't even natural to the gender role assigned to her by nature.

Anonymous said...

@Mirror
Thank you for your answer, I am glad to have received your wise words, they´re really supportive. I feel exactly the same as you wrote just couldn´t put it into any logical expression. As usual, you hit the nail on the head. I am 100% sure this man has played me :-(. You weren´t present and still, you know even better than me who spent 8 hours with him LOL). Yes, it´s true and he must have enjoyed himself to the maximum because he must have seen my interest from my facial expressions and all behaviour that´s why I think he is so certain now. The only thing I can do is forget him as soon as possible. Why on earth are these players so attractive (at least to me)? Never mind, at least I didn´t make any mistakes and didn´t start to pursue him. And I am certainly not going to. And you are right that disappearance is very helpful in terms of confusing the other party. We women are quite used to disappearing men but men, especially players... they aren´t so much so let him taste his own medicine, maybe this has never happened to him, after all, he had managed to make me invite myself for a bike trip which means he must be quite experienced in the game thus be used to women falling for it... So perhaps I will stick out as different (only with your help I must say again) so at least I have some consolationLOL.

Mirror, thanks again. I will read your reply repeatedly so that it sinks in. It´s really empowering and I need it now. Have a nice Sunday, the other ladies too,
Hopeful:-)

Anonymous said...

P.s.: Mirror, I must tell you something else. The power struggle and carrot dangling you mentioned doesn´t happen for the the first time in my dating experience. As if some men deliberately want to hurt my feelings for something - my independent character perhaps, the fact that I don´t want to be totally submissive (?). With this man - I liked him and I believe I was in my most feminine energy I am capable of. Still, this power struggle is here again. Do you sense I am to blame here too?
Hopeful

Anonymous said...

Mirror (annon. @ 9:25 pm 12/6) I just wanted to add that I dated this man for 1.5 years before breaking it off. But we have have been knowing each other and talking to each other for a total of 2 years, since our break up. He thinks 3 years is a fair amount of time and if he doesn't commit I should be on my way, but I am afraid he is just wasting my time.... Shouldn't he know by now? I am not against being engaged for a year and told him so. Unfortunately, we had a disagreement the other night and I disclosed I was dating other ppl, so I doubt I'll be getting a ring now.... Is there a better way to handle this than what I have been doing? Ps. I absolutely love this man. Some have suggested he knows it, too.

Anonymous said...

Ps... Sorry mirror (anon @ 9:25 pm)... I keep forgetting important info... You might say the best way to handle this is no contact. I did that for 2 1/2 mos after the initial break up. Then he contacted me end of august. We then talked back and forth since sept. Maybe meet for a drink 3 times, until recently... We have seen each other regularly since nov 11.

Anonymous said...

Hopeful, Ive had the same issue you have in the past Id like to hear what the cause could be as well. Ive been wined and dined and then the power struggles....sigh. Id love to hear what Mirror has to say, any rec's.

Shelby said...

Mirror,

This is Shelby. I’ve wrote you about this particular man once before. So I’ll give you a bit of a refresher and then share my current, “What the hell is going on here?” Challenge.

I met a man online whom lives four hours from me, of which I was fond of….. He began calling me, which is GREAT, no complaints. However, he wanted to talk for an hour plus nightly and it was draining me. Additionally beyond being drained I was concerned that we were building a false security because the phone calls were so extensive and so often; ….and at three weeks we hadn’t yet met. So I finally leveled with him and was just honest. And I said look, I like you a lot. But I am a bit concerned that we are creating a false sense of a relationship. We haven’t yet met. …and I want the length of our phone calls to reflect where we are in the relationship; which is at the beginning. I want there to be balance. We need to have a real date. So he agreed with me; and talked about me coming there for dinner. So I said. You can come here. It’s a four hour drive. Or you can purchase me a plane ticket and an overnight room at a hotel; and I will come there. So he opted to buy me a ticket.

Shelby said...

Fast forward. We go to dinner. He’s engaging. He reaches out for my hand and holds my hand for nearly the entire evening. He’s properly affectionate. Dinner, drinks and music, lasted for roughly five hours. It was a nice night.

(…And it was Very Nice mirror. …And he was affectionate and attentive. ….But I was feeling like – hmmm he likes me. ....But he’s not amazingly smitten with me. I could tell by the way he looked into my eyes. …I would say it was more like ….a notch / notch and a half, ..better than warm.)

At the end of the evening he drove me to the hotel. When we parked he kissed my hand and walked me inside. He hugged me and said good night.

Shelby said...

But he didn’t mention anything about the next day or taking me to the airport. He didn’t say one thing about the next day. And I didn’t either. Because I feel that if a man wants to see me. He will ask. It’s not my role to do that.

Most of the time Mirror at the end of a date. If a man has taken to me and likes me, they will send me a text immediately after they leave.

So when I didn’t get that. …And when he made no mention of the next day. I thought uh oh!!!!
But I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. It was midnight when he dropped me off. So I left well enough alone and fell asleep thinking he would surely call me in the morning to ask to take me to breakfast or at least secure a time with me to take me to the airport.

But morning came and there was nothing but crickets.

My flight left at 1pm and began boarding at 12:30.

And according to the hotel’s front desk it was a 45min drive to the airport.

So at 10am. I began to panic!! Because I knew my plane boarded in 2.5hrs and it was a 45 min ride to the airport. I was feeling basically stranded and abandoned.

I thought about calling him and saying hey what’s going on here? Are you going to come pick me up or do I need to get a cab? But then I thought better of it…. I thought. Well. The guy doesn’t owe me anything. So it’s a bit presumptuous to call him and demand car service to the airport.

So mirror, I took charge and responsibility for my own self and I called Uber.
I was in the Uber vehicle about 10 minutes into the 45 min drive to the airport and I get a text from him that says, Good morning. So I write back and I say, good morning. And he writes back and says what time is your flight. So I write back and say it boards at 12:30. (For reference at this time it’s 10:30 in the morning.) So he writes back and says, I’ll pick you up around 11:20.
So I wrote back and said: That’s very sweet and I would have loved that, and to see you. However, when you didn’t mention anything about this morning or the airport, I didn’t want to assume anything. So I took Uber, and I’m well on my way to the airport. I’m sorry I missed you. That would have been nice.
So then he calls! And I answer the phone. And he says, are you really in a car, I wouldn’t just leave you stranded. And I said. I waited till 10am. You didn’t say a word last night about today and I honestly thought that if you had any intentions to take me I would have heard from you before 10am. I don’t know this city, the traffic, or the delays with security at the airport. And because of that I wanted to give myself at least two hours give or take for delays. ….So he said. Ok. I guess you will be at the airport for a while then. And then I thanked him for the hotel room and told him it was comfortable and I was sorry that I would miss him.

When I finally made it home, I sent him a message that said. I’m home. Thank you for making it possible for us to see each other. 

So he wrote me back and said. Glad you made it back safe. Sorry you felt like you had to resort to Uber. It was great meeting you and spending time together. Hope the rest of the weekend is fun.

So Mirror – I feel like I got the; “it was nice to meet you line.” He didn’t ask to see me again.
In my experience men that are interested don’t make it a secret. They pretty much immediately try to make future plans, and he didn’t; and after him calling me for hours at a time prior to my visit; I haven’t heard from him.

I’m worried that because I left and took responsibility for myself and left; …I myself have deflated this relationship. Mirror should I reach out to him, and tell him I like him, and that I’d love to see him again and I’m sorry for how things ended.

Or do I leave well enough alone. Part of me feels like I need to make known my interest and take part responsibility for the misunderstanding. But the other part of me thinks that if he was truly interested I wouldn’t have to….

What do you think?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hopeful,
"The power struggle and carrot dangling you mentioned doesn´t happen for the the first time in my dating experience. As if some men deliberately want to hurt my feelings for something....Do you sense I am to blame here too?"

No, when these things happen, it's out of your control. It signals that the man has some control issues, that are likely intermingled with pride/ego. But as women, we tend to project things like this "internally" - while men tend to do the exact opposite, and project "externally." Meaning, when something goes haywire, women have a tendency to immediately look to THEMSELVES as the cause. And with men, when things go haywire, many tend to do the exact opposite and shift blame. Not all, but many of the types of men we discuss here do this. And men in general are just wired differently to begin with, the male brain versus the female brain.

So it's natural for women to seek the answers regarding why something went haywire within themselves (internal focus), and for men, it's natural for them to blame others (external focus) LOL ;-) Again, not always, but generally speaking, that's how our brains are wired differently, which is why you hear women beating themselves up a lot, and you DON'T hear a lot of men doing that to themselves. The male mind will seek solutions outside of themselves, while the female mind tends to punish itself.

So when things like this happen, and you encounter men who don't want to just do what men do and take the lead, and instead want to enter into a little power struggle for control to see who's weaker and who will break down and call first...you need to realize that it's them, it's not you. Don't beat yourself up over something someone else is not doing, that you have absolutely no control over. And instead, just accept that this individual exhibits self-defeating behavior that hinders their own success, and that they permit things like pride, ego and control to stand in the way of fulfilling their natural gender role assigned by Mother Nature.

Trust me ladies, a guy who exhibits signs of needing control, needing to be on top and needing to force you underneath them into the position of groveling for dates and crumbs of attention - is NOT the type of man you want to be dating anyway. If you date a man like that, you will always be experiencing small power struggles of sorts, and eventually you'll notice an unwillingness to compromise creep in, an inability to apologize, and lack of flexibility as well - and it will quickly turn into "my way or the highway" with these types and you'll feel bad about yourself. You'll feel awkward in the relationship because you'll eventually become aware of the fact that, if you don't grovel for those crumbs of attention, then you'll receive none. If you're not the first to apologize, whether it's your fault or not, then you'll receive none. And if you're not the first to pick up the phone, you won't talk. And the reason you'll feel awkward is because the role is reversed and you're in the lead, an unnatural role for women when dating/mating, and you'll be unsure of yourself and unsure of how the man really feels about you - because you'll be carrying the weight of the entire relationship on your shoulders alone. And this will leave you feeling as if this man would just forget about you if you didn't do these things and jump through these hoops all the time for his attention.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

When dating, you win some and you lose some. But with the type we're talking about here, it's okay to lose these ones LOL. Because they'd only bring you lots of confusion and anxiety in the future anyway. A true gentleman is very comfortable in the lead role, doesn't enter into small little power struggles with the woman for control, and is comfortable stepping forward and going after what he wants - because things like pride, ego and control are not issues for him. Instead, they are things a gentleman is willing to set aside to achieve success. And they don't view that as them being "weak" - they view it as their God given gender role, their given right to take the lead.

When you meet a gentleman ladies, you don't experience these issues. And when you do encounter these issues with a man, it's more of a reflection of things going on inside him, not you. So don't beat yourself up over things you can't control. And realize that when you meet several men like this in a row, it's also not a reflection of anything wrong with you - it's a reflection of things that are now wrong with our society as a whole. Gentlemen are now indeed very rare creatures, almost like a dying breed. And unfortunately, that is all entirely out of our control. Unless, of course, we women as a whole - stop giving more than we're receiving all the time, and instead, start making men prove themselves by working for what they want from us once again - as our mothers, grandmothers and great grandmothers once did - instead of us women giving away pieces of ourselves to them for free all the time.

Anonymous said...

@ Hopeful

This guy keeps you waiting, he can't even ask for a date with you directly, he has told you he values his freedom more than anything...all from the get-go.

I think you deserve far more than that and are worth far more than that. However, the bottom line is, you need to ask yourself the same questions to yourself i.e do I deserve more than this? Am I worth much more than this and if the answer is yes then you need to move on and find someone else who can give you what you deserve and wants the same thing as you ultimately.

...and until you find that person, then you treat yourself with the upmost respect and love. This man sounds like a no-hoper, I wouldn't even get into internal analysing if you're to blame, it's him not you... but ultimately you have to take the reins in your life and take responsibility about who and what you allow in and once you find out they don't come up to scratch then you move on before things escalate and I wouldn't waste your precious time and energy stewing over this loser he's not worth it.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ms Mirror,

Thanks for clarifying if men have anniversary moments...enlightening as always :)

Gem50 said...

@Ms. Mirror,
Still need and love reading your advice -- you are rocken' lady!

@ the Ladies,
Check out Mark Gungor on Youtube. I don't know anything about him, but he shares some good stuff. "What attracts men the most about women," and "Sex is what men want from women," is more encouragement for all of us. :) p.s I love his comment in "What attracts..." about white women vs women of color. I am a white woman, and his explanation of women of color loving themselves is just as I have viewed you growing up as a child and now into adulthood. love it, love it, love it

@ Hopeful,
I am sorry the dancer didn't work out. Like Ms. Mirror says, we win some, we lose some; and I know it seems there are so many losers out there and it is frustrating. The reality is, if we look around society as a whole, emotionally, mentally and spiritually healthy and aware individuals are not part of the pack (sadly). But if we keep to our course, we will cross paths (and maybe more) with them my dear -- I do believe. (hugs to you sweety)

@ Chk61,
How are you?

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and anonymous,

thanks for your comments. Yoe are right, when I read what you wrote I perfectly understand. It´s a relief to know that I am not to blame. And yes, it´s true that this man will certainly have problems with his ego. He used to be a successful dancer, world master actually. Since he ended his professional career he has been working as a trainer. Also successful, but not a star anymore. His son is now in the limelight. So yes, he is definitely fighting with himself to accept an inferior position in life and must have ego, dominance issues etc. Exactly as you wrote. My final decision: I´ve deleted his number (just in case) and am not expecting anything from him anymore. Thank you for your encouragement, it helps so much... :-)
Have a nice day full of smiles,
Hopeful

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Shelby,
I'd leave this one alone, if he wants you he knows where to find you. You sensed his interest was luke warm during the date, and you already explained yourself and apologized that you missed him, so there's no need to repeat yourself.

Because quite frankly, I'd be a bit irritated at his blase' attitude the morning of the flight. Do the math - it's a 45 minute drive to the airport - and he's going to pick you up at 11:20...giving you what - 15 or 20 minutes to check in, make it through security, take a tram to your gate, and board a plane? I dunno, that just seems a bit irresponsible to me, and places a lot of undue anxiety and pressure onto you, which seems a bit careless and thoughtless to me.

Give this a bit of time. Be patient and see if he reaches out in a couple weeks. If he doesn't, you can always reach out then and touch base, after any misunderstandings have passed. Had he been really interested during the date, it might make more sense to touch base with him. But given the sense you got that he wasn't smitten, might be best to let this one pass.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 7, 3:44 PM,
"He thinks 3 years is a fair amount of time and if he doesn't commit I should be on my way, but I am afraid he is just wasting my time.... Shouldn't he know by now?"

Definitely. Most men know within the first year if a woman is someone they could spend their life with or not.

"Is there a better way to handle this than what I have been doing?"

Cut him off. Making yourself available to him is reassuring him that you'll stick around. If he's to fully explore his feelings for you, he needs space and absence to do so. Unlike women, who "feel" during times of togetherness, men tend to "feel" and experience their emotions during times of absence. He needs to see if he misses you or longs for you once you're gone, because how deeply he does either or those things is going to help him determine whether or not he truly cares for you.

If he gets the benefit of talking to you or hanging out with you in the meantime, all it does is reassure him that he doesn't have to explore his own feelings...because you'll still be there, regardless. He'll think, "I have her now, so there's no need to commit. We'll just keep doing what we're doing."

"I absolutely love this man. Some have suggested he knows it, too."

See what I mean? He KNOWS you're waiting around for him, and he also knows he's currently got things working the way he wants them right now - because you're in his life right now without him having to commit. So he sees no need to make a decision about commitment, because he's already getting his way.

"You might say the best way to handle this is no contact. I did that for 2 1/2 mos after the initial break up. Then he contacted me end of august. We then talked back and forth since sept. Maybe meet for a drink 3 times, until recently... We have seen each other regularly since nov 11."

Right - but he's back in your life because you LET him back in, without making him PROVE himself and how he feels for you FIRST. He used WORDS to get back in the door - but wasn't forced to PROVE himself with ACTIONS.

Like I said above, he's getting his way, ya' know? He's talked his way back in, but he hasn't had to change a thing, he hasn't had to do a thing, and he hasn't had to PROVE himself genuinely interested in a committed relationship. He just has to keep talking and stringing things along to get his way. He knows you'll comply, ("I absolutely love this man. Some have suggested he knows it, too.") And he's taking it (and you) for granted - that you'll always be there, willing, waiting and compliant, ya' know?

When a man that doesn't want to commit disappears or leaves, and then resurfaces months later and wants back in the door and back into your life - THAT is the moment it's "do or die" for him. THAT is the moment he needs to PROVE himself genuinely interested. He knows you want commitment, so if he's gonna' have the guts to knock on your door...then he better be ready to commit. Otherwise, he's just going to waste your time and his for however long he's permitted to.

The minute he tries to reenter your life after walking away from you because he isn't ready to commit - is the minute he better be ready to commit. If he isn't ready to commit, then he has absolutely no business knocking on your door again - only to ask you to do more of the same, more of what you DON'T want - for another year or two, ya' know?

Anonymous said...

i just got on match.com and have had a lot of good feedback. went on my first date last night and it was really nice. but i was very interested in this one particular guy, who asked for my number and we texted quite a lot yesterday and he seemed really interested. he asked me to go get drinks next week with him.

so today, i got on match.com and it had said 'interested' by his name when he first contacted me but today it said 'not interested'...so i'm thinking what happened...did i do something wrong...i can see now maybe i texted him too much yesterday, but he texted me first each time...should i text him about this...and say, what gives...should i leave it alone and see if he contacts me

i'm just mad cuz he seemed like a really cool guy and i was most looking forward to meeting him...

if i was too 'texty' is there any way to turn this situation around...should i go no contact

mirror, im finding i have a huge problem of feeling crushed every time i get rejected, even if it's someone like this, who i have never met, but was really interested one minute and not the next...how do i become the kind of woman who is stronger than that and 'immune' to it. i know i should be like 'whatever, his loss' but i don't feel that way inside, it just makes me sad.

please help

Anonymous said...

From: Anon. Dec 7 3:44 pm....Thank you mirror for your reply. I wrote here a while ago to ask about what I should do, which prompted me to break up with him early thi past summer. We were just beyond a year going out, but I could see the handwriting on the wall. Although there was talk of a future and marriage, there were no concrete plans. You told me I could wait another year, which you didn't find unreasonable, at that time, but it was up to me what I could live with. I chose to break it off, rather than have life pass me by. It was a good decision.

... "When a man that doesn't want to commit disappears or leaves, and then resurfaces months later and wants back in the door and back into your life - THAT is the moment it's "do or die" for him. THAT is the moment he needs to PROVE himself genuinely interested. He knows you want commitment, so if he's gonna' have the guts to knock on your door...then he better be ready to commit. Otherwise, he's just going to waste your time and his for however long he's permitted to. " Wow... Wish I had this advice in August. I have never stopped loving him, but I was moving on... then his text at the end of August has just thrown me for a loop. It put me right back into it, although I did keep giving him 'ultimatums', as he called it - and would quit seeing him as soon as I saw nothing was changing. I wish I had written sooner.... I thought because he contacted me, it was a green light to move forward and date again. As stated though, it doesn't last for long.... This will be the 3rd time now I am leaving the scene, in 2 months.

I thought too... that if I wasn't "putting out" and he knew I was seeing other people, it might light a fire under him. However, it just made him think I didn't care about us for me to say, " I might have found someone I could really hang on to". I just wanted to make him a bit jealous... It was immature, I know. Although there is some promise with this other guy I have been seeing (just 3 x) I don't love him. Sigh... Maybe though....

Anyway, I looked at Mark Gungor, at gem 50's suggestion. I have decided that I am worth the ring, before the goods this next time around, (if there should be one). Funny... I found your sight in 2012 about a guy I had been seeing for 2 months. He's barely a memory, now; but I was devastated that he had disappeared. Then, with your advice, I end up in a year and a half relationship with the next one. I guess I know just enough to get the guy half-committed now. Maybe third time is a charm.... :)
Love, Lonnie

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 10, 9:37 AM,
"so today, i got on match.com and it had said 'interested' by his name when he first contacted me but today it said 'not interested'...so i'm thinking what happened"

Nothing happened dear - you've just received your first taste of online dating is all LOL ;-)

I'm not going to lie, online dating is not for the feint of heart. But if you stay, it WILL toughen you up. You have to understand that there's a "kid in a candy store" effect that takes place in online dating - so many women, so little time - ya' know? You CANNOT take the men you meet online seriously AT ALL until they have PROVED to you that they are actually serious and interested through repeated actions. Actions such as regular contact, regular requests for dates, consistent follow through, etc. Because these guys will disappear after dates as well, not just texts. Because they're caught in the "something better" loop, and have an endless buffet of opportunities streaming onto their device screens daily.

It's not you, it's simply the harsh reality of online dating, and many women there do the same exact thing to men.

"should i text him about this"

No - don't do that. It will be interpreted by him as you being "desperate" for male attention, and he may be inclined to string you along and take advantage of that (get you into bed before disappearing again).

"im finding i have a huge problem of feeling crushed every time i get rejected, even if it's someone like this, who i have never met, but was really interested one minute and not the next"

You have to realize dear, that when these men are "interested" online - in the early stages, they're interested in getting to know you - not entering into a relationship with you. And yea, once some of them speak to you, they disappear. And yea, once you go on a date, some may disappear. And yea, once you have sex with them, they may disappear. And yea, if you date them for two months, they may disappear.

But the reality is that the same exact thing can happen in the real world too, not just the virtual one. People are interested in getting to know one another, but after doing so, sometimes they realize things aren't clicking, or wouldn't work for various reasons, and then change their mind. It's a fact of life, we get rejected, and none of us escape that in life.

"how do i become the kind of woman who is stronger than that and 'immune' to it"

You realize your value. And you stay focused on meeting the RIGHT man for YOU - not just ANY man that comes along. Don't settle for anyone that comes along, be choosy. And when they don't choose you, understand that they were doing you a favor. Because clearly it wouldn't have worked, and they saved you the trouble of rejecting them later on down the line.

Fall back on your personal coping skills and stay focused on the positive. Who cares what some turd on the Internet thinks of you? Your worth does NOT come from a man. It does NOT come from the value that OTHERS place on you. It comes from the value that YOU place on YOURSELF. If he doesn't see your value, who cares? Because the only one you DO need to see your value - is the RIGHT man for you.

You don't need every man on the planet to be interested in you, you only need the RIGHT man to be interested in you.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"if i was too 'texty' is there any way to turn this situation around"

Realize that when you're too available to a man, it puts a damper on his interest. Why? Because men like a challenge. They are geared towards competition and challenges excite them. When something or someone is too readily available to them, it's no longer a challenge, and it's no longer exciting. It becomes a "sure thing" - and that kinda' puts their fire out.

The way to turn it around is to become scarce to them. People are psychologically prone to wanting what they think they can't have. Hence the old saying, "play hard to get." When you're hard to get, hard to reach, hard to contact, hard to see and you are scarce and not readily or overly available - this gets them fired up. You become a challenge to them, you get them thinking about you, wondering where you are, who you're with and why you're not responding or available - and then they begin to long for you. And men equate longing with love. To them, longing for someone triggers "feelings" in them.

But when you're always there, always available, when you jump on every call, when you respond to every text within two minutes, and you text or talk for hours all the time...the mystery is gone, and it's human nature at that point to take someone for granted (that they'll always be there).

Turn it around by taking at least 30 minutes to respond to texts. And sometimes, don't respond for an hour or two. Don't answer their calls right away, let them go to voicemail. And don't respond to emails for at least 24 hours.

If you present yourself as "in demand" and "scarce" - they become intrigued and curious and want more of you. The flip side to that is that if you present yourself as readily available, overly eager and immediately accommodating, they tend to misinterpret that as "desperate" - so don't do that. Instead, pace things out, build excitement, build anticipation and make them work for it a bit. This excites them - so give them something to be excited about ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lonnie,
"Wow... Wish I had this advice in August."

Well, we've all learned a thing or two over the past two years here, no? ;-) That particular couple had already suffered a breakup, he had already resurfaced, they were already at the 2 year mark, he was already on his second chance, and then he began creating "financial" excuses. So it's the combination of all those things that creates the "big picture" in their particular case.

However, having learned a thing or two myself about disappearing men with my work here over the last two years, seeing no "happily ever after" endings after thousands of stories shared...yea, as I stated in this second edition article, it becomes clear that a zero tolerance policy is probably the wise stance to take.

"then, with your advice, I end up in a year and a half relationship with the next one. I guess I know just enough to get the guy half-committed now. Maybe third time is a charm"

Well remember, it's not about getting the guy to commit, or getting "A" guy to commit...it's about finding the RIGHT guy who WANTS a commitment with YOU - so that no other man can come along and steal you away from him. Meaning, you don't have to try to do the work of getting a man to commit.

You only have to be found by the RIGHT man who WANTS to commit to YOU :-)

Gem50 said...

@ Anonymous Dec 10 9:37a
If I may, I'd like to add to Ms. Mirror's advice with, "... and practice." I've been doing it for awhile, and it takes practice to get comfortable not jumping when these guys contact you, sitting back and observing their behavior, and walking away smiling to yourself when these guys try to lay their lines on you and you say, "um, no thanks."

@ the Ladies, I had a funny thing happen yesterday. I had to take my mother to the local hospital for tests right smack dab in middle of day. I spent 3 hrs in AM sitting in the RMV with my son, waiting, chatting, supporting him, and in the end, it was a success and I felt so happy that I was able to help him, thus I was feeling great.

As I was getting ready for the day, I wondered if I would see 46 while at hospital... I just had a feeling, but tossed it aside.

Well, I had decided not to let my mother take away my lift from the morning with my son, and while walking down several hallways at the hospital, we come to where we have to take an elevator downstairs. As we approach, two men are conversing as they exit a surgery recovery room. One is in a tie, the other is wearing surgical garb -- and I know them both.

It's 46 and a friend of a guy I consider my "younger brother." I've been at parties with this second guy and his wife, have done things in a group with them, and have been to their home.

#2 sees me immediately and the bantering between him and 46 stops. 46 is in his surgical garb and doesn't recognize me. #2 starts talking with me, I explain where I need to bring my mother, etc, they both try to help direct me. I steal a look at 46. I'm not sure it's him. The man I'm looking at is quite a good looking man (I say to myself) and if he were to lose a little of the weight that he needs to, all I could see was very attractive strong character in his face.

Well, 46 catches me looking at him. We lock eyes for a second. I grin as I realize it IS him, and it hits him who I am. He becomes a little flustered and starts jabbering something about the motorcycle. I just say, 'oh yea," nonchalant, and then he suggests that the stairs would be quicker. I explain that it's probably not a good idea for my mother, and when #2 offers to join us in the elevator to where my mother needs to go, I decide this could be good practice for me.

I accept #2's offer, we joke around a bit, and now my attention is on him and my mother and POOF! I forgot about 46 standing in the hallway.

But I didn't forget him at all, I wanted to become scarce as Ms. Mirror explains. I wanted our seeing each other to be another fleeting moment of our paths crossing unexpectedly. And I wanted to be the one to depart because I had things to do.

I left 46 at that elevator door with an opportunity to think later (if only for a second) about our crossing paths again. He'll wonder how #2 knows me, and if he inquires with #2, the fun could begin.

Like I said, #2 is such a teenage girl, there is no way he will be able to keep from younger bro any inquiry 46 makes of me. And if he does, younger bro will say something to me\ thinking he's busting my axx, but really it'll be him being nosey too.

And if nothing happens from this, that's ok too. I saw 46 get flustered, and I PRACTICED being too busy to avail myself to either of these two men longer than an elevator ride one floor down. A year ago, I probably would have made every attempt to chat with these guys while it was convenient for them, and them walking away when they had to, thus my value not being very high in their view.

As Chk says, Onward and Upward!

chk61 said...

@Gem50:

Thanks for the link to Mark Gungor. I enjoyed the video "sex is what men want from women". He is funny yet he is speaking within a marital (Christian?) context: that if women want to get a man to commit, she has to have a ring on the finger before sex. This is how I was raised by my Catholic parents yet I was born in 1961 and my how the world has changed! Premarital sex is the norm and there is no shame about it, and as long as men can get the milk for free, they will. Mirror has discussed that ad nauseum here, and of course, she is spot on!

So all things considered, with no interesting men on the horizon...I'm OK. I have been laying low, this time of year and the shorter, gloomy gray days definitely affect my energy.

I will confess to y'all, I did attend the D.M.'s party a few weeks ago with a male friend, my "date" (a wingman, we are just friends). Curiosity killed the cat, and I threw caution to the wind. It was interesting to meet his friends and family and despite the somewhat odd circumstances, I had a good time. There was a woman there he had dated for the last couple of months and they had just broken up (her friend who was in attendance who strangely enough recognized me from years ago and she told me, I just acted like I knew nothing about him). Yet neither he or his newly former girlfriend seemed terribly uncomfortable or upset so I could not figure out who dumped who? As she was leaving I witnessed them hugging each other, a longish hug. So clearly, he WAS surrounding himself with all kinds of exes, including me and his ex-wife! It's almost comical.

I felt a bit let down for a day or two but I think in retrospect, attending the party was a good thing. He likes me enough but does not view me as a romantic partner, I believe mostly because I am several years older. Also, I have made progress with him in that I have stopped initiating any contact since early July, and I have no desire to initiate contact with him at this point. I have not heard from him since the party. So despite my weakening and going to the party despite everyone's urges here to avoid (thank you all for that), I do feel I have made significant progress in my emotional state about the D.M.

I am becoming rather sanguine about finding a partner as I approach my mid-50's but am trying to just enjoy what life has to offer in other aspects of my life. It's a challenge but I feel I have no choice. ;-)

Now, for a nap. ;-)

chk61 said...

BTW, I just realized I used the wrong word. I meant to say "resigned" about finding a partner but am trying to be sanguine about it!

Also, on the man front, there are currently two guys pursuing me but I am not interested in either of them, other than as friends. One is 13 years older, too much of an age difference! The other I am just not attracted to. I am still lurking around on an online dating site but not actively participating. There are a couple of vaguely interesting men on there but the whole process of meeting strangers from the internet is daunting. And as I battle a mild case of SAD (seasonal affective depression) I would rather lie around with my laptop than meet a stranger from an online dating site. Tonight I was considering going to a opening reception at a gallery if I can drag myself off of my bed! ;-)

Anonymous said...

Mirror, thanks for all the work you do here. I just copied and pasted some of this to my mother, as I feel she is in an unhealthy relationship. (She actually acknowledged these things "have some merit". Lol... Which, for those of us who have been coming here for some time, already know that....)

Anyway, I do have a question... I will have my third date with a gentleman next week. Could I suggest inviting him to a new year's celebration I attend every year, with friends? We meet at a local hotel (Marriott) where there is dancing (with a band), dinner and a free bar for one hour. It is $100 for each person, but I would get my own ticket. My friends have asked if I am coming this year and I would like to invite him, but I don't know if it would be appropriate. He has already had me to his house for dinner (so he seems comfortable being that intimate with me) where he cooked dinner for me on the grill. (Not even so much as a passions kiss, yet ... btw. I'm Keeping it very g rated at this point.)

Thanks for any advice..l

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everybody,

I´d like to share something that has happened to me recently and which sort of proves the idea that it´s not good to pursue the man as you might be percieved as needy or clingy. Wanting to forget the disappeared dance trainer as soon as possible I promptly put a new advert on the dating site and got a few replies. One of the man sent me his phone number writing that he doesn´t have a chance to use the Internet all the time so he would prefer to phone me straightaway. I don´t usually do it but I sent him my number. He called me, we chatted and I was quite glad that somebody was there for me. I wasn´t interested in him very much so I said yes to everything he was talking about so he must have had a feeling that I accepted him and was into him and that we clicked. He asked me how many men had replied to my ad and when I gave him the number he said enthusiastically that I had picked him. A few days later he phoned again to arrange our date but I was ill with bronchitis so we postponed it. Today I got a text saying that he has been thinking of me (!) and wishes me an early recovery. Nice, but when I read it it made me feel suffocated. We have never met, we haven´t exchanged photos, nothing. And he´s already thinking about me. The phone conversations must have made him fantasize about me but the woman he is fantasizing about is not me. And that is unpleasant. Obviously he doesn´t have a lot of options so he is happy to have found a woman willing to meet him. He sounds genuine by the way. I just want to say that when we women pursue men they might be feeling the same as I am now, which is not good LOL. I feeI responsible for lifting up his hopes, which wasn´t my intention at all and now it feels like a burden. I think that on the whole, whether we are men or women, time and space are very important, especially at the beginning of relationships and mainly when you aren´t 18 anymore. This man sounds as we were in relationship already. And I don´t know what to do now. What would you do? I don´t feel like meeting him anymore because I perceive him as pushy:-(. On the other hand, I wouldn´t like to hurt him. Any ideas? Should I force myself to meet him? If he likes me, it will hurt him even more when I refuse him (which I already do).

@chk61
Chk, good that you finally went to the party, at least you know where you stand and how you are feeling about the DM now. And don´t give up on dating, I firmly believe the best is yet to come.

Mirror and Ladies, despite the fact that I am trying to move on I still harbour some hopes for the trainer as I don´t think I spoiled anything (I know, I know...). I don´t want to rely on his reappearance, don´t worry, but maybe he is sorting out his life, I don´t know anything about his previous relationship, he just told me he is single. And if so, I will proceed according to Mirror´s instructions.:-) I am very glad that I didn´t attempt to contact him in any way. Thanks again for all your support.:-)

Have a nice weekend,
Hopeful



The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 12, 12:51 PM,
"Could I suggest inviting him to a new year's celebration I attend every year, with friends? We meet at a local hotel (Marriott) where there is dancing (with a band), dinner and a free bar for one hour. It is $100 for each person, but I would get my own ticket."

I'm not sure I'd do that dear. Because if YOU are the one asking for the date, then technically, you should probably pay his way too, which I wouldn't do at this point. It's too early to start complicating things like that. And you don't want to be signaling to him that you'll pay for dates because it's too early, and if you do that, it'll turn into you being expected to do that from that day on. I don't suggest even toying with the idea of doing that - until you're in a committed relationship.

Not to mention, this will be a festive atmosphere that most likely includes alcohol. And it's way too early to be losing control in front of this man, ya' know? People tend to think things like this are a good idea, until it happens and then they're doing damage control because the evening turned into a Jerry Springer episode after drink #3 LOL ;-)

If I were you, I'd attend this year without him. If he's still around next year, then you'll know each other much better by then and if any drunkenness occurs, it may be more easily overlooked - and if $100 is needed to foot the bill, you'll have a year under your belt and a better sense of whether or not he's committed before you start doing that :-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hopeful,
"What would you do? I don´t feel like meeting him anymore because I perceive him as pushy:-(. On the other hand, I wouldn´t like to hurt him. Any ideas? Should I force myself to meet him? If he likes me, it will hurt him even more when I refuse him (which I already do)."

Well dear - this is where the "work" comes in.

I would meet him, because you never know. Don't make snap judgments, go and see for yourself in real life. He might surprise you. When a man treats you right, he can grow on you - and you can grow to care for him as a result :-) It's only a couple hours of your time, and you have absolutely nothing to lose by exploring the situation.

And if you're not interested afterwards - you need to kindly explain that. Again, this is work. No one ever said finding a lifelong mate would be easy, or that making huge life changes would be easy either. So when these things happen, you need to give people the same respect that you wish others to give you. It's hard to reject someone, I know. But nonetheless, it's the right thing to do if it turns out you're not interested.

I'd suggest exploring the situation before making a firm decision. Besides, dating more than one man (no sex) has a good side effect to it - it distracts you from thinking about the one that's treating you poorly, and lets you see what it's like to be treated well ;-)

Confused said...

Dear mirror,

I completely agree with all of your viewpoints, I find them very similar to what I believe in and also reinforced some of my beliefs.
However, it's so hard to practice what I preach myself... Sigh..
I met this wonderful guy around the end of October, and we talked for almost a month before he asked me out.
We had an amazing first date , he was the perfect gentlemen -- he insisted on paying for everything, he picked me up and dropped me off, opened doors and EVEN put on my jacket for me.
I saw him again 2 days later because he texted me the night b4 when I drunk and I told me I wanted to see him, and the next day he asked me if I still wanted to see him. So that night after we had dinner, he brought me to a building that he currently is remodeling (he does real estate redevelopment) and we kissed on the terrace, under the stars(!!!!) -- and that was our first kiss, and he dropped me off home afterwards (no sex).
I saw him again 2 nights after because I was gonna go on vacation for 1 week so I wanted to see him before I leave. He came over, and I was really turned on so I asked him if he wanted to have sex (my mistake) -- but wait for it...he said no!!! Cus he can tell I'm not ready for it, which was right!
The next day, he texted me TWICE to make sure I got to my destination safely, I couldn't answer the first one because I was on the plane. And we talked that night.
And then... Nothing!
He never texted me again after that day, and didn't call or text after I got back from my vacation, and it had been almost 3 weeks since I last heard from him... I don't understand!!!!
He was the perfect gentleman, and a man of his words... When he says he will text or call me later, he always does! But I don't understand the sudden disappearance..
Please help me understand this, I have already given up on him calling, but I just want to understand.
Thank you so much!

Anonymous said...

@Mirror
Thank you for your reply. I know you are right. I am very stubborn and when I decide to (not) do something, I act upon it. However, where am I? Still on the dating site LOL. So I will listen to your advice because you are right as usual. I will make myself go on that date. This man told me he was looking for a serious relationship in our first phone conversation and my gut tells me he didn´t lie. So at least I will meet somebody who is different from my usual choices and see what it feels like to talk to somebody who isn´t an insecure player. Maybe I will learn something new about myself as well.

P.s.: I have just come across an article written by a man who has found his soulmate. Both of them in their thirties and beautiful and terribly in love, especially him as he had to overcome many obstacles to finally marry her. I can´t even imagine that anything like that could happen to me, it´s like a fairytale from a different world. The man is absolutely out of his mind with love (everything is shown in photos). I don´t envy but I´d like to be better at handling men and relationships (sigh). Also, I believe in privacy in relationships, these facebook sagas confuse me a bit (am I old-fashioned?)

Have a nice rest of the weekend:-),
Hopeful

Zoe said...

Dear Moa and Ladies!

Im not asking for advice this time (you have helped me soo much with my previous guys and Im forever grateful for your advice Moa and I was hoping that about this guy I will never have to consult you, I havent even checked the forum for like 3 weeks...), but I would like to share my most recent dating experience because I am still kinda shocked and just cant get over it...It is still very fresh though, it all (break-up) happened today.

So I started seeing a guy exactly one month ago and this time I was always using Moa's advice, I was scarce, I never initiated contact, I was not always available etc... We had several great dates, dinner, drinks cinema etc...he even slept over at my place several times but I didnt sleep with him until this Thursday, I made him wait a month...He agreed and said he doesnt mind waiting and we even both went to an STD check up before we first had sex...he seemed responsible and mature.

He was always very interested, kind, attentive, contacted me every single day in these four weeks and we really did click and connect, had great convos. So we had the results of the std and had sex this thursday, two times actually which was really nice for both of us I think and he even said it was really worth waiting for. I felt extremely happy. Then Friday he didnt contact me...that was the first day he didnt contact me at all. We had previously agreed to spend this weekend together so it was strange why he is not asking about it and I started worrying that something might have happened to him so I texted him this morning. Several hours later he texted back that he is not sure about the weekend bc he is very busy...It was weird and I felt something was off but said ok...Then several hours go by and he sends me a msg saying that he just realized he doesnt see himself in a relationship and it is a lot of responsibility and he wants to be free blah blah...I was shocked and devastated...I had a complete lack of understanding and still do... I immediately called him. He answered and just basically repeated what he texted that "it doesnt feel right" and "he is not ready for a relationship"and I asked "so is that all? is it over?+ and he said "yes, goodbye".... Tears are running down my cheeks while typing this right now, it just hurt so much and still does... how effortlessly he could say that....and then I asked him whether he just wanted sex or whether it wasnt good for him but he said "neither, it is different..."

I mean I was really alert, I paid attention to possible red flags, but Moa I did not see any!! Im just so sad and devastated, I got mad so I texted him how mean and disgusting it is and how used I feel that he did that just right after sex...why did he wait for a month then?? and finihsed the text with a "fuck you"...I know I should have stayed calm and wished him well, but I just couldnt :'(

I was as cautious as I could, had my guards up for a month and here I go again :( Im so sad and disappointed in men....

Be careful Ladies bc it seems that even seemingly genuinely interested men can turn into bastards in the blink of an eye...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Confused,
Well, I'm going to say some things here that might hurt. I'm not trying to hurt you, but I imagine this will be painful. So realize that I'm saying this to help you, not to intentionally hurt you. And I apologize in advance for the sting this might bring :-(

Okay, here goes. "I asked him if he wanted to have sex (my mistake) -- but wait for it...he said no!" I think this was the issue. And the reason I think it was the issue is because I've seen this happen before.

I've seen this cause disappointment, particularly in gentlemen, because men like a challenge, and they want a woman who is "different" from other women. When a woman does this, it removes the challenge. The woman is now a "sure thing" and in doing so...she becomes just like every other woman the man has encountered - desperate (for male attention).

And then they start to make a lot of assumptions and snap judgments. They start to assume that you're like this with all men you meet. Whether it's true or not, generally speaking, that's how men interpret this behavior from women. And they start to think that the woman is needy - needy for a man, needy for a relationship...so much so, that she's willing to throw herself into something she's not even sure of yet. And they don't want to be the target of all that need and desperation they interpret that as, because to them it feels suffocating.

The minute you begin to pursue a man, you can almost guarantee he'll turn and run :-(

This was probably compounded by the fact that you were already pursuing him to an extent, before this even happened. I'm sure you didn't realize it, but you were kinda' stepping into the lead role to speed things along by initiating things. And again, when women pursue, men tend to interpret that as "desperate/needy" - whether it's true or not.

And where that happened was "he texted me the night b4 when I (was) drunk and I told (him) I wanted to see him, and the next day he asked me if I still wanted to see him." Even though he called you - you were the one attempting to initiate another meeting. And during this time, if I understand this correctly, you were drunk, which is why he questioned it again the next day, to see if that was still the case.

You then initiated the next meeting "I saw him again 2 nights after because I was gonna go on vacation for 1 week so I wanted to see him before I leave." He didn't have a chance to do things at his pace or to have the lead here, because you had stepped into the lead role and attempted to speek things up. Which led to you trying to move things into hyper speed by the 3rd date, offering sex. And I imagine he interpreted this as you coming at him fast and hard, ya' know? Not to mention, alcohol was involved in once instance. And he questioned your judgement after that "he asked me if I still wanted to see him." He did it again when he put the brakes on after your offer on the 3rd date "he can tell I'm not ready for it.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad about yourself. You asked, and I'm giving you my honest opinion. Look at this as a learning experience dear. We've all been where you're at. You're not alone here, and you're certainly not the first woman to enthusiastically approach a man and have it go sideways or backfire. And you know what? You actually have a lot to be thankful for here. Had this been a man of lesser quality, you could've ended up used sexually, and then watched him disappear. This man did not use you. This man had values and morals and a code of ethics he stuck to. He wasn't out to use you, he wasn't out to hurt you. That's honorable and again, had this been any other man - you could be here right now reporting that sex took place on the third date - and then he disappeared. Be glad that didn't happen here dear, cause it would've felt a lot worse, trust me.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Always, always, always let a man pursue YOU dear. Don't initiate contact, don't suggest dates, don't signal that you "need" to see the man, don't try to speed things up and don't try to take the lead. Let the man be a man. Let him take the lead, let him set the pace. All you have to do is decide whether or not you'll submit to his lead - that's it. You don't have to initiate dates, you don't have to initiate sex. All of those things will come in their own time, if you give things room to grow, slowly and organically. When things are rushed along it feels unnatural. So try to get into the habit of responding only, and not initiating or suggesting dates, meetups, etc. Because as I stated above, when a woman steps into the lead, men interpret that as "desperation" and that's not the impression you want to give - that you're desperate to see a man, to be with a man, etc.

Just chalk this up to a learning experience dear. Like I said, you're not the first woman to have this happen and you won't be the last, so understand that this is no big tragedy here - it's just a guy, and it was just 3 dates - that's all, nothing more.

So don't beat yourself up about it. Instead, learn from it so that when you DO meet the RIGHT man for YOU...you take a different approach and don't repeat the past :-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Zoe,
I'm sorry this happened to you dear :-( But don't beat yourself up over it. This man may have NEVER been ready for a relationship from day one, and just wasn't being honest with himself or you about it. It's very common for men to disappear or "rethink" things after sex. Because truthfully, men are not inclined to think that commitment is good for them. They're more inclined to think that "freedom" is what's best for them. So it's not unusual for men to pull back like this after sex - it's actually quite common.

And when this happens, if you stay calm and don't get emotional, many times after their fears subside, guilt will bring them out of the shadows and some return to "level" with you about what was going on in their heads at the moment. Trouble is, when you don't do that and you get emotional instead, it actually somewhat justifies their decision for them. Meaning, they read those communications and instead of feeling guilty, they now get to say, "Eh, she was crazy anyway." Then they slap you with the ole "crazy" label and feel like they've made the right decision :-(

Whereas, if you show strength and resolve, remain unemotional and don't communicate with them at all, and instead go silent on them - that gets their mind working. Maybe they made a mistake? Maybe they were wrong about you? Maybe they should try to talk to you?

Now I'm not saying that even in those situations things work out. Generally speaking, when a man acts skittish about commitment - he IS skittish about commitment and that doesn't change. But what can end up happening if you remain calm and don't communicate when emotional is that in the end...sometimes they do return and YOU get validated in some manner by having them admit they were fearful and that's what compelled them to act the way they did - it wasn't you. And when that happens, YOU appear as the strong one, while THEY appear fearful. And while that's not a happy ending, there is some consolation in that, ya' know?

Just because we make all the right moves dear, doesn't mean that we're doing that with the RIGHT man. Sometimes things just don't work out, regardless if every step was carefully chosen. Because it takes two to decide things are right, and if one isn't trying or is fearful or is taking things for granted, no matter how many correct moves we make - it doesn't change the fact that the other individual is letting fear guide their decisions. And it doesn't change that the other individual might not have the feelings for us that we have for them. I suspect he was about to take space to see if he actually might have had feelings. But when things went sideways, that was interrupted and was instead replaced with anger. In either event, the "why" doesn't matter anyway. All that matters is that this apparently wasn't meant to be, regardless of the reasons and regardless of all the right steps being taken - it just simply wasn't meant to be.

People can always turn on you dear. That's a sad reality in life. And not just in romantic relationships. This can occur in friendships, working relationships, familial relationships - you name it. We cannot control others, we can only control our reaction to them. Which is why it's better to play it safe and not invest emotionally into others, until they've proved themselves to you. I know you feel used here and rightfully so. But anytime we enter into a relationship dear, we're all always taking a risk - we all put our hearts at risk. You have to take chances, that's just how it is.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Don't take anymore action with him. Don't contact him. And if he contacts you, don't respond or answer. Make him stew a bit, and leave him hanging. Let him explore his own actions in his own space for a bit. Eventually, once your emotions and his fears have subsided a bit...you never know, he may circle around to clear things up here a bit. But even if he does that, do NOT forget - you're clearly dealing with a man here that isn't ready for a commitment. So don't assume that because he's returned, that's what he wants. And don't assume that if he should happen to want sex again or want to see you again, that he'll want a commitment. You already know where he stands on the issue. So regardless of his next moves, keep that in mind. If you stay silent, this one may circle back in a month or so, you never know.

Anonymous said...

@Zoe and Confused
It felt so heartbreaking to read about your experiences. I wish you an early recovery. Christmas is coming so maybe it will be beneficial to focus on buying presents and meeting friends and relatives to forget about what had happened. And start the new year with a firm belief that it will bring you happiness and good luck in love:-).

@Mirror
Mirror, I have a question for you. What makes a woman look desperate in the man´s eyes apart from initiating? E.g. with the trainer he obviously could see that I liked him because I couldn´t stop smiling although I wanted to be cool, my eyes and the whole body were sparkling and was really happy to be with him, you know what a happy child looks like when they have a new toy. Do you think that even such positive behaviour might have frightened him (in the sense that he saw my interest)? Because from my experience women who can play it cool, are aloof, are more successful in the dating arena. What is your opinion?
Hopeful

Zoe said...

Dear MoA,

thank you so much for your support and kind words. It especially helped a lot reading this line:

"Just because we make all the right moves dear, doesn't mean that we're doing that with the RIGHT man"

Because I was really starting to lose hope and think that no matter what you do, men will always mess up with you...I dont want to become bitter but I have had so many negative experiences that Im just kinda burned out. I lost faith in men and dont wish to date in the near future....but you are right, he was probably not the right man for me.

I did something stupid this morning though...I phoned him bc I felt we need to talk after I had sent that "fuck you" msg before...but after two rings he just turned his phone off and the automatic voice said he was not available...I know I shouldnt have done that and I just hurt myself even more actually :( But it all happened so suddenly, the break up, that I still have so many questions on my mind. I feel I need to tell him so much and it is killing me...but I will not contact him any more. You are right about no contact and I know I have to remain silent now.

I blocked him now on whatsapp and fb (where we used to chat) and also deleted his phone number. This is the only way I feel I cant contact him again, should the urge come. Do you think he might still circle back after I tried calling him this morning or I just pushed him even further?

My heart really wants him to come back but my head hates him and keeps telling me to avoid him like plague...I will go no contact from tomorrow on. It will be hard, especially at the beginning but I know that is what I have to do and your advice just reassured me in it.

I do believe that everything happens for a reason and nothing is random, but this experience has just made me so sad and bitter; my last 3 realtionships all ended similarly, men telling me they dont want committment any more, but in the previous 2 cases there were signs and the situation was different...Now Im not sure what the universe is trying to teach me but I have never felt so used and unwanted in my whole life :(
It also ruined my self confidence bc breaking up right after sex just kinda tells me that even sex was not good enough for him or maybe he didnt like my body...

Thank you for your support again MoA! xxx

AuthenticScorpio said...

@Counfused
I did pretty much the exact same thing that you did earlier this year. Had a guy that I was dating for 2 month start disappearing/reappearing and pulling stunts and so I somehow got it into my head that instead of waiting for a commitment, I'd just offer sex to hook him. We started kissing and then he ultimately stopped and told me he was having second thoughts on going through with sex - even though he'd suggested it a few weeks before. Whether it was because of his conscience or a game he was playing, I'm happy that we didn't go through with it. And then I came her to relay the whole DM experience on the 5k Disappearing/Reappearing Man post so that Mirror could talk some sense into me lol.

10 months later and the DM is a distant memory after I went NC and refused to respond to his communications unless I got an indication that he wanted to seriously talk (he pulled a LOT of stunts). He ultimately never did make such a request and I moved on. And I can't begin to tell you how happy I feel with this new mindset that comes from a place of confidence and strength rather than fear and impulsiveness. Just wanted to let you know you're not alone! (LOL funnily enough, when I first wrote on this site, I used "Confused" as my post name too.

Anonymous said...

Moa,you were once married to a Taurus I understood what happened that you divorced him?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 15, 6:21 AM,
It's a very long story. But the general outline is that after 8 years of marriage, I found out that he had been cheating on me opportunistically with random women, and also longer term affairs, since the 3rd year of the marriage. I basically found out my marriage was a joke, and that he had a whole other life outside of it that didn't include me - and included a large harem of women.

I was much younger then, physically, emotionally and mentally, and missed or rationalized away many of the red flags along the way. I once got a phone call from a private detective asking me his middle name, claiming he was the father of a child out of state (never did find out what happened with that one). I used to wake up in the mornings of the winter months and in the ice on my vehicle windows parked outside "F U" would be written by someone anonymously regularly. He used to go out on weekends, not returning home till 4:30 -5:00AM, and he'd jump right into the shower before coming to bed, with no explanation of where he'd been for the 2.5-3 hours after the bars closed. He used to take 3 hours to run to the store, with no explanation of why it had taken so long. I used to get hang up phone calls at the house on a regular basis (this was "pre-smartphone" days). And he wore a Cheshire grin on his face all the time, particularly when being questioned, as if he was very pleased with the fact that he knew something I didn't know, as if he were smarter than me.

There was much, much more. But it all culminated in him having gotten a much younger girl pregnant 7 months after we separated - or so he thought. In this case, the player got played. Karma circled round and dealt a huge hand. It's a sad story though. Just when you think things can't get worse, and this person can't possibly continue to hurt others having seen the damage they've already done, you find out you're wrong. In this case, his mother threw a shower for this baby with all the family. And the baby was born - drug addicted :-( And neither my ex or the baby's mother were permitted custody. My soon to be ex in-laws took temporary custody and raised the baby for the first 6 months of its life. Only to find out, once the mother had completed her program and returned for the baby and child support and had a paternity test performed, that the baby was not my exes - nor was it their grandchild.

Think he changed after all that? Think he learned his lesson and became a brand new man? Nope.

Current rumor all over town (and from the mouths of many women he's allegedly involved with) is that to this day - he lives the same exact lifestyle. He has had a steady girlfriend for 8 years now, maybe more, that he lives with. And word all over town is that he's still got a very active sex life outside of that so-called committed relationship. So much so, that one of these women just recently approached his brother in a parking lot, not even having ever spoken to him before, and told him to tell his brother to quit barking up her tree and ringing her phone for hookups.

He's in his mid 40's. He's unemployed. His much younger girlfriend supports him. He got another home, a new woman, and he still rides the motorcycle that I still pay for and that apparently, the new girlfriend has also contributed to financially as well. . .and he's putting ALL of it at risk - all over again. . .for some cheap, sordid sex life.

So you see ladies, most times, men like this - they just NEVER change. They are who they are. . .and you can't save them from themselves.

Anonymous said...

WoW Mirror... Just WOW! so sorry for you had to go thru, certainly has made you a wise and intuitive woman.
Men these days are just awful....
Dissappearing AFTER romancing, wining and dining or hanging out and getting close is actually a TECHNIQUE that many seduction communities teach men to do "how to get her to chase you...."
so many times the man disappears with his feelings to go and renew his technique on someone else so he has plenty of options, they expect one or two of the "plates" to break or bust and they keep it moving to the sure thingies... spinning plates, they circle back around to you expecting sex, love, money etc. before repeating the cycle on someone else. I was on a website men where bragging about how many plates they have, who they like the best etc... The one thing that ALL the plates had was they where all disappeared on and put in a position to chase and they did. None of the men actually persued the ladies after the initial contact, the males where persued. That's why its so important to listen to Mirror's advice and NOT to chase men, ever. Even the seemingly sweet, "sensitive" types attempt to get you to chase them. For the benefit of your heart, don't do it no matter what your girlfriends tell you, the men they are supporting, chasing etc. are all two timing them and more.

Anonymous said...

Moa,
Thanks for answering me, sharing your story. I'm in love with a taurus man or at least I think I am. I think about him non stop. Everything was fine he would call me everyday we would meet and go out it was nice. Now he is disappearing sometimes for a week and wouldn't even call me.
When he does uses excuses and I forgive him and I run to meet him again. He is so sexy his kisses I laugh with him and feel good. When I met him I needed air but now this passion I feel for him is suffocating me. I never said anything to him but I think he knows how I really feel for him. Then he is playing those tricks. Don't know what to do.
This place you have created have given me much strength and to many other women.
Thanks.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hopeful,
"What makes a woman look desperate in the man´s eyes apart from initiating?"

Well, if I had to sum it up in one word, the word I'd probably choose would be - EAGERNESS.

Men look closely at how eager the woman is to hear from them, see them, talk to them, etc. It's instinct for them. And quite honestly, women are also able to easily interpret the same in men. You can tell the difference right away between a man who's eager, and one that's a little less interested.

And it all lies in those subtle communications that aren't spoken - ACTIONS. If you jump on a call, you're eager. If you respond immediately, you're eager. If you ask to see the man before he asks to see you, you're eager. If your eyes light up like a Christmas tree when you see him, he can sense you're eager.

Think about it. What's at the opposite end of the spectrum from "women who can play it cool, are aloof" and those that aren't doing that?

Eagerness.

That's the opposite of playing it cool and being aloof. And men can sense women who are eager for them without the woman having said one word about it. It's all in the actions of the woman, and in her body language - the "unspoken language" that transfers between two individuals.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror! I am so excited about reading this piece. I am the person who shared that "let it go" sermon/words in my reply a few months ago 'to help someone like it helped me'. I am so happy u shared it with everyone. Thank u so much!
that sermon and ur posts helped me out of a hard time. I havent been here in a while since i've actually "let him go", but this piece brought ears to my eyes as i thought of where i came from.
Thanks again for helping me thru what seemed like the biggest fight of my life!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 15, 10:28 PM,
That was a valuable piece you shared - and you have helped other women by sharing it. We're all here learning from each other and our experiences. And I'm glad that you've overcome your fight, and you've moved on to bigger, better things :-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
Here you go - and I couldn't AGREE more. "If we can direct our thoughts toward the well-being of others...it will help promote a more enduring, genuine kind of happiness...one of the best ways to promote one's own happiness is to be kind to others, to be generous."

The caveat that I'd like to add here - is that you be mindful of WHO you are extending your kindness and generosity to. Because as we all know, some people don't deserve it.

So ladies, if you find yourself down in the dumps this year - GIVE to others in need. Seriously. Fill yourself with good vibes by volunteering your time at a food bank, an animal shelter, providing clothing to the needy, gifts to children that might not otherwise receive any...bring a Christmas tree to a family in need with children - bake cookies and take them over to your elderly neighbor that's alone - whatever you see fit.

There was one year in particular that this was very gratifying for me. I couldn't provide much. But I made phone call after phone call to local church's and asked them to provide me with the names and numbers of two single mothers who didn't make the cut for food assistance. They did. I phoned these women, got the ages of all their children and then gather my sister and my mother and one male friend I grew up with - and together we provided a full Easter dinner plus gift baskets for all the children.

The male friend helped me deliver the load. At the second woman's house, we discovered a woman who was only receiving $700 a month in income, her rent was $500 a month - and one of her children was handicapped and confined to a wheelchair.

My male friend wasn't expecting this. I think he came along out of curiosity to help me haul this stuff. When we came into that woman's house with box after box, she was astounded and the kids were literally screaming with glee. Not over the baskets - over the food.

The woman broke down and grabbed the first person nearest to her - my male friend. She clung onto him, crying into his shoulder, unable to let go and trembling. I was shocked at his reaction. He started to cry. She grabbed me, her kids jumped in, and we all did this probably for 10 minutes before we finally pulled away and left.

When we got into the car, we both sat there a bit in silence, processing our emotions. My male friend broke that silence and turned to me and said, "Thank you for inviting me along to do this. I needed this. This humbles me. I fell really, really good. I feel better now than I have in probably the last ten years of my life."

Too bad it wasn't Christmas - cause I think the Grinch's heart grew 3 sizes that day LOL ;-)

If you're down in the dumps ladies...get out there and DO something GOOD. You don't need to belong to an organization to do this. You can do what I did there, and do it all by yourself. If you do, it'll fill you with joy and positive vibes. Trust me - the man who left you...will quickly fade into the background.

Here's the full article: http://www.mindful.org/the-science/research-the-key-ingredient-to-genuine-happiness

Anonymous said...

You're a good woman Moa. You deserve all the happiness in the world. Sorryto hear about your ex. Thhe guy is a loser, good riddance! One day he is gonna look back and regret deeply all the bad things he have done to you, no matter how long it takes karma always hit you. Hugs

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,

I can't even express how much I love your blogs and want to thank you for giving your time to help women who have a hard time letting go of Mr. Wrong. Your blogs helped me personally get rid of a douche-bag who I thought was going to leave his girlfriend for me, and finally be with me and we would live happily ever after. HAHAHAHA I'm feel silly even saying that but that was the fantasy I was living in for pretty much all of 2013. Fast forward a year later, I admit I still think about him from time-to-time hoping he would contact me so I can finally have some closure, but it's already been a little over a year and if it hasn't happened by now, it's just not gonna happen lol. But anyway, that's not what I came here to talk to you about. I came here because I needed some advice. I now have 2 guys who say they are interested in me, wanting to take me out on a date, and want to get to know more about me. One even goes as far as to say he always misses me. But I'm less than impressed with them conveying how much they want me but is not picking up their feet and pursuing me. I'm trying to lay low and allow them to be men and chase me but nothing is happening. Not to mention all they do is text me. One of them actually called me once but that's only because I suggested it. I don't know what I could do to get this moving along. It's like when I try to date and I get no where and it's like pulling teeth to get a guy to take me out 1 date. What are your thoughts on this?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 17, 12:18 AM,
I understand that, and actually, it's very common nowadays for a lot of men to go about dating in a lazy manner - doing nothing, and attempting to trigger the woman into handing over all her power and chasing them down.

When a man's WORDS do NOT align with his ACTIONS - this is a big red flag dear.

If these men are expressing a desire to get to know you more, yet doing absolutely nothing to make that happen, that's a warning. If they can't take the lead now to make things happen, if you end up with them, how are they going to be a good leader and provider when you're with them? They're not. Instead, they're going to lean back, and place you into the unnatural masculine lead position, while they assume the feminine submissive role, and this will eventually cause you to question the entire relationship, along with yourself. Because when that happens, you never really know if the man is actually "invested" in the relationship, because he actually contributes very little to it, if anything at all. Eventually you recognize this, it becomes a nagging feeling, a nagging question. Then the woman starts to demand more of the man, some sort of sign of investment into the relationship - and he ends up bolting, slapping the crazy nag label on you, claiming "I can't seem to make you happy" - and then acting as if it's your fault, instead of recognizing it was his actions, or rather lack thereof, that brought all this on.

When a man strings you along and "e-maintains" you, doesn't call, doesn't ask for dates, and basically behaves in a lazy manner about dating - again, it's a red flag. The words and actions are not lining up. And that usually signals the "BS meter."

So instead of letting them trigger you into thinking YOU need to do something to move things along "I don't know what I could do to get this moving along" - it's much better to leave them be. You can't force someone to want to be with you. You can't take control and make someone want to see you. You can't make them want to spend time with you. And honestly, dating men that exhibit feminine submissive energy, is rarely satisfying for a woman in the long run. It causes her to question things, question the man's investment and whether or not he really cares.

I wouldn't attempt to try to convince either of these men to date you. They're men. If they want you, they know where to find you. When men act like this, it becomes kinda' suspect - like as if there's a rotation of many women, they're e-maintaining them all, lots of the woman are chasing them down...and they don't have to lift a finger for anything. They become used to this, used to dating only insecure women, and so this is how they date - lazily. In the end dear, my personal opinion is that men like this really aren't worth the time. If they're not manning up when they meet you, they're not going to man up if you end up with them. And in the end, you'll be very disappointed, and you'll end up questioning yourself and the entire relationship.

Much better to spare yourself all of that now. If they do eventually man up, great. But if this goes on unexplained for months - nah, not worth it at all. Signals a "rotation" of women - and you don't want to be one of many, grappling for crumbs of attention, ya' know?

Anonymous said...

@Mirror
Mirror, I agree with you but what about "your eyes light up like a Christmas tree when you see him?" If I like him he definitely sees that in my eyes and it is good, isn´t it? Isn´t it flattering? It doesn´t mean that I am planning to marry him, or does it in the man´s eyes? My eyes always sparkle when I like somebody, even female friends or colleagues, I am simply a lively person and I cannot change that. But I agree that women who play it cool are perhaps more alluring to men (not to all men though).

Have a nice day everybody,
Hopeful:-)

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA,
here's a succinct background of my current situation. I am 29yrs old and have been "seeing" this guy my age since mid september.
We met online.. we live a 10 min drive away. After 2 days of messaging back and forth on a regular basis, he asked for my number and planed a traditional dinner date the same week which went very well. He was very persistent. For the first few weeks, he was very keen to see me and was acting like a gentleman (paying for dates, daily communications, not pushing for sex and voicing his excitement).. On date 3 and 4 we fooled around but we have not slept together . I have seen him 7 times overall. The last time was about 5 weeks ago.
What happened was his behaviour started shifting a bit after a few weeks. Though he was still texting me daily, he became less available for dates, making vague plans on 2 occasions and not following through. The first time I let him know face to face in a calm demeanour that if he was interested as he claimed, he needed to invest more time.
After the 2nd time of him being sort of flaky, I didn't answer his text.
The next day when he reached out again to ask why I hadn't answered his text I sent him the following text
" the reason I didn't answer you is I feel this isn't going anywhere. We're not really seeing each other anymore and when we're supposed to see each other we don't.. this isn't serious."
to which he answered " I understand xx"
Needless to say I was very sad and troubled by his shift that wasn't triggered by any event, especially since the last date we went on went so well and he didn't even try to come up to my place after dinner.. After which he sent me a text saying " I had a great time tonight, I think I like you xo"

2 weeks later though he texted me telling me he was thinking about me, that he was bummed I had put an end to it and that it would be nice if we could say each other again.
I responded that I was open to seeing him again and seeing how things would go this time around.
This was 3 weeks ago and he has yet to make any concrete plans and has been texting intermittently.

He says things like " we try and see each other soon?!" so Ill say " yes I expect and invite soon ;)" then he'll say " this weekend??" So me: " that works, what day?" to which he replies " I may be available saturday but ill get back to you towards the end of the week. (my mother is in town)"

Its like.. fuckhead, you're the one who suggested to see me, and then said this weekend.. so this definitely sounds like mind games to me..

thats what he started doing right before I told him off.. he's done this once again since getting back in touch. Throughout our whole dating, I may have initiated a good morning or good night text, twice or 3 times at most. he's always the one initiating.


Next time he plans on contacting me, I plan on not answering..

But my question is: what do I say if he persists and ask why I am not responding.. How can I go about it firmly while still leaving the door open if he's willing to step it up.

I see that his actions have not aligned with his words and thats a red flag but I am still holding on a bit to our initial interactions which were really great. Also kind of holding on to the fact that he's always initiated things..


As a side note.. I know it doesn't mean much.. But i find it very interesting because I am a 29yr old female lawyer, very feminine and as humbly as I can put it, very good looking according to general standards.. Live on my own in a nice condo downtown, etc. etc. Meaning Im accomplished, pretty, independent and yet.. I'm finding it so hard finding a guy thats willing to step up to the plate..

thanks in advance!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hopeful,
"If I like him he definitely sees that in my eyes and it is good, isn´t it? Isn´t it flattering?"

Sure it is - but immature men and men with bad intent will take advantage of that once they sense it. They'll attempt to use your eagerness to their advantage through emotional manipulation, whether they feel the same about you or not.

Which is why holding back early on, not playing your cards, and filtering genuinely interested men from those who are not (via their actions and continued efforts) is so important. Mature men will be flattered by that. But immature men and those seeking only sexual relationships will take advantage and begin to manipulate, because they'll sense you're making an emotional investment of sorts, before things really get going.

"My eyes always sparkle when I like somebody, even female friends or colleagues, I am simply a lively person and I cannot change that."

Well, while you may not be able to change it entirely - you CAN manage it to a degree, ya' know? The sad reality nowadays is that dating requires women to hold back early on. It's messed up, I know. But if you don't restrain yourself, men can pick up on all the subtle unspoken body language taking place - and immature men and those with bad intent don't appreciate that - they take advantage of it instead.

It pays to be somewhat hard to read, giving them lots to work at and think about, challenging them to bring their best selves to the table. Because if immature men and those with sexual intent are able to immediately peg you as a "sure thing" - it will lead to heartbreak :-(

Years ago I once had a man say to me, "I can't read you. I can't tell what's going on in your head. You're a tough nut to crack." My response? "Perfect. You're not supposed to be able to figure me out right away - you're supposed to get to know me first. I'm not an inanimate object like a nut, that you're supposed to break open on the first few dates - I'm a complex human being, just like you - with a surprise under every layer that's peeled off."

Translation: This isn't going to be easy pal. You're actually going to have to WORK at this ;-)

We had a couple more dates, and then I walked away from him. He was shallow and lazy, and HE was a sure thing, so I chose to move on. He contacted me many times after that, hung on for about two years actually, but I chose to stick to my guns and decided to never see him again.

But had he been the right one for me...he was put on notice immediately that I was "different" and that I would challenge him as a man. And every time he would text me, he always used to say "I think about you constantly. I try not to, but I can't seem to get you out of my mind." Why is that? Because I was "different" from the others ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hello MOA, I am feeing so stupid as i write this, its moments like this you wish you could rewind time and undo your done actions :(.... as you can tell I am in a heap of panic right now as i have no idea if what I have done was smart or dumjb, hoping you can give me your ever wise opinion on the situation please.

I started seeing a guy 4 weeks ago so we are not even near relationship territory yet, we have been on 2 dinner dates thus far, and I somewhat enjoyed the slow pace at which we were going, however after both dates i noticed that the said guy would not call/text me, which I found super wierd since I thought it was only courtesy for him to at least acknowledge me after our dates. After our 1st date, there was no contact for 2 days, and I ended up shooting him a smiley face text....the second date which was a week ago was the same thing (no text, no nothing)...this time I felt compelled to text him 1st that same night as he had planned a beautiful date for me and I felt I should show my appriciation by texting him goodnight later on that night.
MOA I have not heard from said guy since this night (1 week ago), I went through all the motions this week, during the first 4 days I was pissed and had planned not to let him see me sweat by texting him 1st this time...I had planned to give him his space and let him come to me, but as the week went by I slowly became infuriated, maybe it was my insecurities coming out at this point, because he would make snapchats every hour, tweet every 30 minutes, and sit online on whatsapp, so I started feeling like he was tryna play a power game on me, and that he was not talking to me on purpose....I still held my composure and did not text him, until today :(.....I sent him a message saying "Hey hun, so I haven't heard from you in a while, not sure why but I am taking it to mean that you're not interested, and thats ok if thats the case. I enjoyed getting to know you these few couple weeks,regardless so yhh, have a lovely xmas and take care hun x".

So MOA as you can see I took an understanding and calm tone in the text so as to not be accused of beeing a crazy lady lol, my main concern is that, he has read it but not replied, and now I feel stupid as if I blew the situation out of proportion, I just feel that him ignoring me so blatantly was very disrespectful and wanted to end the situation with a clean end instead of this tension and silence that was in the air the whole week.

Do you think i did the right or wrong thing MOA? cos I might feel content about this text tomorrow morning, but right now I just feel like he wasnt even worth that text from me :(

#LondonBayeh

Anonymous said...

@Mirror
Mirror, I agree. However, it´s very difficult to change your behaviour - when you are lively, open, you will always lose guard and show your emotions. And you are right, it´s possible that maybe my "lit up Christmas tree eyes" discouraged the trainer because otherwise he seemed to be fine with me, he even wrote me a nice e-mail after the date saying that "it was nice and beautiful to be sitting with me over a cup of coffee in the autumn sun considering we have similar views on life". And asked about my week adding that I must have had a nice week because I was smiling a lot (on the date). After reading it I thought he definitely must be sincere... (Scratching my head now LOL). By the way, I must pride myself a bit in my progress: As you know this time I have been able to keep silent and let him go but what is more important, after a short emotional crisis I am back to normal. Somehow I have managed to be okay with the fact that I was rejected (for the very first time in my entire life - not that I am happy about it but I can cope with it with dignity so to speak). I even have nice feelings towards the trainer whenever he comes to my mind because I had a really nice time with him. The only thing that confuses me is whether he is a player or not. I know there´s no point in analysing this but still... And since he got my e-mail with my number he hasn´t signed in. As for the other man, I wanted to go on a date with him as you suggested but he postponed the date because now he is ill and I sense that he is backing off. And sadly, I don´t feel any connection with him after three long phone calls, he somehow suffocates me, he speaks as if we were in relationship already, which puts me off. So I don´t think I will meet him although I wanted to take your advice. However, I am corresponding with a new man so maybe that one will work out better for me :-)

How is everybody, Gemini, chk61 what news do you have?

Mirror, thank you again for your kind advice and all your blog. Have a nice day without worries.
Hopeful:-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 17, 1:22 PM,
"I let him know face to face in a calm demeanour that if he was interested as he claimed, he needed to invest more time."

Refrain from doing that in the future dear. To men, that reads like a smack on the hand - being reprimanded - and it signals that you're heading for relationship territory, quick. Seven dates over a 3 month span is casual dating (irregular, sporadic). And when you signal to a guy that he should be communicating with you more, or that he can't change his mind, it signals to him that you're viewing this as a relationship, and that you expect relationship type communication from it (something regular).

I understand that being given vague plans and not having them manifest is frustrating. But the reality is that this isn't a committed relationship, and he does have the right to change his mind. Which is why when dating casually, for a woman it pays to NOT consider plans firm and to NOT rearrange your schedule to accommodate them - UNTIL firm plans are in place. And in order for a man to have firm plans in place for a date - he needs to set those plans 3 days in advance. If he doesn't - no date - you're busy (even if you're not).

And what that does is it signals that YOUR time is valuable, and that you have a life outside of him, and that others demand your time as well. So if he wants to see you, he has to make plans at least 3 days in advance. If plans aren't firm for a Saturday date by Wednesday evening - then there is NO Saturday date. If he calls Friday night and asks again - you've made other plans, even if you haven't, and instead, you suggest another date (3 days later) and make firm plans.

Not only does this signal that your time is valuable, and that he needs to firm up plans in advance, but it also helps to remove any false expectations from the situation - because come 3 days before the intended date, if plans aren't firm - you know there are no plans, so you are free to do something else instead.

Men understand the language of ACTION. It's their language. A bunch of WORDS do nothing for them. It's actions they hear. So when something like this happens, don't TELL them what they need to do - instead, SHOW them. . .via your own actions.

"I was very sad and troubled by his shift that wasn't triggered by any event"

No event that you're aware of. But if you met him on an online dating site - I hate to say this, but this stuff is par for the course on those sites. So many women, so little time. Everyone's there to date, everyone there dates more than one person at a time (especially men), which is why YOU should also do that. You should date several casually (no sex) until one of them asks for a commitment from you. No commitment requests - then there's no commitment in place - for him or you.

"he'll say " this weekend??" So me: " that works, what day?" to which he replies " I may be available saturday but ill get back to you towards the end of the week. (my mother is in town)"

When he does that - that's not a date, it's a suggestion. Do NOT rearrange your schedule because you MIGHT have a date. If he doesn't come through to finalize that date and make firm plans by Wednesday evening, then there is NO date - you're busy and you've already made plans - period.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"But my question is: what do I say if he persists and ask why I am not responding.. How can I go about it firmly while still leaving the door open if he's willing to step it up"

I probably wouldn't think about what HE'S going to do here. I'd probably think about whether or not this man is even capable of making me happy. While this is only casual dating, it still doesn't seem to be going anywhere. So rather than worry about what he's going to do next, it might pay to think about whether or not this guy is even capable of making you happy, and whether or not this is worth investing anymore time into, as it seems to be going nowhere. Do you really want to leave the door open for more of this? Might be best to just acknowledge this isn't going anywhere and cut him loose so that you can free yourself up to meet someone who wants what you want, ya' know?

"I see that his actions have not aligned with his words and thats a red flag"

You're right, they're not. And while he's entitled to be a flake LOL, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be observing all of this behavior, taking it all in, and thinking about whether or not this is even worth continuing. He's entitled to be a flake - but you're also entitled to decide this isn't working and cut him loose, instead of waiting for HIM to decide what's going to happen next. You can take control and make the decision for him.

"Im accomplished, pretty, independent and yet.. I'm finding it so hard finding a guy thats willing to step up to the plate."

It's not you dear, you're not the only one experiencing that these days. Men are becoming a lot more passive these days, while lots of women are being a lot more aggressive about their sexuality - and it's turning everything on it's head - it's making men lazy :-(

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@LondonBayeh,
Well, maybe another piece on this site will shed more light:

"This is the oldest trick in the book and a known fact as to how men reassure themselves. You can expect a man to distance himself and pull back before diving in headfirst and/or right after having sex. So just know this and be prepared for it ladies. Don't panic and go off the rails.

When men feel uncertain and seek reassurance, they don’t do it like women do – by talking about their feelings and emotions over coffee or a bottle of wine all night long. Men seek reassurance by pulling stunts, like making you jealous, making you worry or the the good ole’ disappearing man act.

When he goes MIA, you do too. You fall off his radar, hell you fall off the face of the earth, and all he hears are crickets chirping in the distance on a silent night.

How That Works: It tells him that you’re okay giving him space and that he's not that incredibly important to you. Being alone is okay with you and besides, there are others out there who want your time as well, so this really isn't a big deal. You have other options and your strong, emotionally.

The Result: He's thinking about you non stop. He’s not getting the reaction he thought he’d get. You're different and he's actually admiring your emotional strength. He's impressed by it. But it's also triggering HIS insecurities. Is there someone else? Is she over me? Why isn't she blowing up my phone?

Once he moves through that thought process, much like a rubber band, he'll spring back towards you. He'll think, "I'd better go check and see what's going on."

This is based on a dating theory called "The Rubber Band Theory" which concludes that this is part of the male intimacy process - getting close, then pulling away to think, remain independent, feel manly and not get too caught up in HIS emotions. Men do this to maintain a nice, healthy balance."

And they also consider it the "crazy lady" test LOL. Meaning, they do this to see how well you handle your emotions. Do you act out on them? Do you become enraged? They pull these stunts deliberately a lot of times to test you and your resolve.

You can read the rest of the piece here: http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/06/disappearing-reappearing-man-what-to-do.html

Do you think i did the right or wrong thing MOA?

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Well here's the thing dear. You were only casually dating (irregular, sporadic), yet you were kinda' signaling that you expected relationship type communication (regular, daily, consistent, etc.) When casually dating, you can't have relationship type expectations. And you can't expect a few dates to lead to a committed relationship, ya' know? You also have to remain in the feminine role (submissive) and let the man take the masculine role (leading, initiating). When a woman attempts to step into the lead role to speed things up, the end result most times is that the man pulls back and places distance between him and the woman - to slow things down. And how you handle that distance can directly affect the end result. It can actually be a "make or break" moment when dating.

Either way dear, it's not the end of the world. He's just a man - and there are millions more of them. You ended the relationship and it's over now, that's all that matters. I wouldn't waste another ounce of time reflecting on it or beating yourself up over it. If anything, it can be looked upon as a valuable lesson. Because many times, people enter our lives to be "teachers" that help us learn valuable life lessons. So it could be that he entered your life as a teacher, and not a permanent mate. And if that's the case, be thankful for that. This article actually discusses that concept, and I think it might make you feel better:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/12/christmas-holiday-hookup-dating.html

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror will u help me out? Been seeing someone that i worked with. I Started off in training with him. (He Offered to mgmt to train me) we became close through work. He lead from the beginning by asking for my number and dates etc. I let him. We no longer work together. But still were dating. Fun dates too!. I always let him initiate dates, calls, texts. He told me he had strong feelings for me the last time i saw him. He says he just wanted to let me know. My reply was that was nice to hear and if those feelings continue to grow just remember i want our friendship to remain solid and loyal. (Oh, it's been 2.5 months of dating but no sex)! After that incident we texted like normal but i invited him to a christmas function and he said he will see if he was off so we could go and never confirmed. I called the day of and he didnt answer but later he text saying he was at work and sorry he missed my call. I replied and said i just wanted to see if u were coming earlier but now iam out with friends having drinks will ttyl. It felt strange to me that he didn't answer or nothing so i left it alone but now he hasnt called either. This was the 1st time i ever invited him to something. I waited 2.5 months to do so, did i scare him off, gosh?For someone who liked me so much, missed me everyday, now nothing. Idk if that rubber band crap applies to this. What do u think? If so, when in the world can you invite guys to parties bc I dont know. I do know i am NOT calling his butt! ;*)

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,

Hopefully you're able to help or give me some advise how to deal with a returning disappearing man. We haven't had any contact since April (we live in different states) with the last text I sent was in response to his text message. Since then nothing. I've paid heed to what you've suggested and literally carried out NC on him. However, he's now back in my state visiting his family and I'm sure I saw him yesterday (but pretended I didn't :-)).

Today he dropped off a bunch of flowers and a card at my parent's house whilst I'm at work (my parents rung me to advise me a suitor dropped it off).lol. Common courtesy dictates that I should ring him and thank him for the flowers but I feel like that's leading him to think that I still have his number on my phone. As I feel like this his way of getting me to initiate contact?

Any advice you can give on how I should handle the above would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

chk61 said...

@Hopeful and Mirror:

Good advice re: eagerness. When I met my D.M., it had been 4 years since my last relationship and I was definitely too eager (what I had with him was NOT a relationship). I agree, Hopeful, that it is difficult to hold back and not let our eyes sparkle too much - we're only human, after all - and in retrospect, I don't know if it would have made much difference with this particular guy. If I could do it all over again, I definitely would have played it differently, yet hindsight is always 20-20 as the saying goes.

Mirror's advice is quite good though....we have to try to keep our emotions in check in the beginning before we figure out if the guy is sincere or if he's just looking for another notch in his bedpost. Self-protection /preservation is necessary when it comes to matters of the heart. I think with age it gets easier yet with age, a woman's options lessen so I would advise younger women to practice self-control, holding back, not moving too quickly and other self-preservation tactics when dating!

And online dating has for sure changed the dating landscape. Men who are attractive and seem to have their act together are getting to have sex with a variety of women via online dating, a never-ending rotation. According to a book I read years ago called "Why Men are the Way they Are" (author Warren Farrell), men's primary fantasy involves having access to a wide variety of women for sex. And women's primary fantasy is security: finding one man to settle down with, and raise a family. So with marriage, women get their primary fantasy met (and we are speaking in broad terms here) but men have to give up their primary fantasy.

No longer! With online dating, some men have easy access to many women and with women going years between partners, and the "hook up" culture, his chances of "getting laid" are quite good. A lot of women are thinking they can act like men these days but I believe they are fooling themselves. Nowadays, it is very easy for men to get their primary fantasy met and it has had a huge impact on dating and relationships getting off the ground.

The good news is that there are men who are online dating who ARE looking for one good woman. I have three good friends who met their mates online, and one is engaged. I know of at least three other long term or married couples who met online. Yet, finding these men is a challenge, requires a LOT of work and time, and the process can be extremely frustrating to the point where you are ready to just throw in the towel.

Last night I met someone from online. He had told me he had stayed home from work the day before and I said several times, that if he was sick, I was FINE with postponing. He insisted, so we met and there he is coughing into his napkin, and it did not create a great atmosphere. I had a pleasant time (despite hoping I did not catch his cold) but he did not ask me ONE thing about myself. We mostly talked about him. He was a gentleman in that he picked up the check (I had one glass of wine, he had hot tea and we gingerly shared a couple of appetizers, with me being very careful to separate my food from his!) I felt nothing, and there were things about him that I was just not attracted so I have pretty much zero desire to see him again. Next!

Interestingly, my D.M. is back online, and he is looking for "short term dating" Hmm...

Yet, I think about the women that met their men online, and since I am not meeting men in "real life" this seems to be just one strategy to maximize my chances. Getting old alone would be doable but frankly, I would really like to find a partner. So I'm back on the horse, trying to remain positive and thinking good thoughts.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the above post 100%. The region I live its very difficult to even find an attractive man to hook-up let alone a second date. Throngs of women throwing themselves at men aggressively in our "hookup culture" has given me 10years+ of unwanted celibacy and Im very pretty, educated, feminine and fun.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 19, 1:38 AM,
Well, he's treated you poorly in the past by simply disappearing. Flowers and a card aren't good enough to get back in the door. While nice, they do not erase what was done previously. So now it's time to filter him out. Meaning, it's time to sit, be patient, be quiet and not say a word - to draw HIM out. Because right now, he's attempting to draw YOU out. I wouldn't bite on that. He's hurt you once before, so this should not be easy for him - he should not be able to waltz right back. Instead, he now has to PROVE himself, and this is just the first step - not the end-all-be-all. If he's truly serious about this, he'll wonder and stress about why he's not hearing from you, and he'll figure out the 2nd step as a result LOL ;-) I say he SHOULD be left to wonder and to think and to worry a bit. . .to force him to be real if he genuinely wants this.

Gem50 said...

Hi Hopeful, Ms. Mirror and the Ladies,

What’s going on with me, Hopeful, is that I’m just living life one day at a time – trying to look forward, not back.

After Scorpio came to my home last month, I think he realized I wasn’t impressed (without my saying anything to him about his actions not aligning with his words.) He’s asked several times for a “do-over,” but I have declined. I am not interested in what he is offering me – which is very little, quite frankly. I want and need more, and I’ve told him so.

Because of my comments, he sent me a text last week that I think may be of value for women here to see.

Scorpio > I guess I will go find someone else to play with so you can live in peace xo Love you and will always want you.

Initially I felt the pain of his sting. I felt a loss, I felt unwanted, I felt like a play toy, of little value, discarded like a disposable item… many of us have been there :-(

Because of the education I have received from this site, I talked my way though my feelings and also saw Scorpio’s ploy. I saw Scorpio intentionally trying to enliven my insecurities. And from that knowledge I felt a couple things: 1) hurt – hurt that this man, who says he loves me, would WANT to hurt me, make me feel sad, etc. and 2) determined – determined not to hand over my power, my essence, to this man by reacting to his action the way he wanted me to.

So instead, I felt my feelings, thought of the (great) love I had and the (changing) love I have for him. I thought how I could step aside from what he was sending -- to let it go through the wind to nowhere -- I thought about grace, and after about a half hour responded > I love you too, and always will.

What did I get back?

(continued)

Gem50 said...

2 of 2

What was Scorpio's response?

Nothing.

Nothing.

Nothing.

Nothing ladies… No response at all.

During this past week I have felt relief and I have felt sad. I have felt strong and I have felt weak. I have felt free and I have felt stuck but most importantly I have felt life carry on.

If you are still reading, there is more: Last night (6 days from his text) I woke up to a couple texts from Scorpio 3 hours apart. I responded after the second and tried to keep it casual. When he asked again to see me, I told him again to let me know when he’s single. Here are a couple comments he made during our texting that I want to share with you.

Scorpio > U make me chase u

Me (no response)

Scorpio > I wanted u to text me first. U win.

So you see, if we take care of ourselves, if we trust our gut, if we DO NOT let these guys get us to react to their antics, if we hold on to our essence (because it IS our power that CANNOT be beat), we will come through it -- maybe a little battered, a little bruised, but still standing, still whole, and still with an opportunity to get this life right.

I ended my texting explaining I had to get some sleep. But not before the following little nugget that I hope makes you laugh WITH us (I say “us” because although he has no idea, I hope Scorpio’s karma is being positively affected with my sharing our experience with you for educational purposes).

When I asked Scorpio what I won, he responded > Me xmas eve if you make cookies

I know Ms. Mirror is now ROFL her AO!! ;-) (I think it's also funny that I know what those letters mean) lol

That’s the 3rd or 4th time Scorpio has asked to spend xmas eve together. Umm... no. I have no interest filling up his dance card christmas eve for him to disappear christmas day to his other life. I’d rather be home alone in my pj’s, maybe in the kitchen making something good, maybe I can find a good movie on the tv, maybe go visit neighbors, maybe enjoy the thought of having the next day off, an easy Friday at work, and then the weekend to continue to live life one day at a time. :-)

Super-big-Hugs to all the ladies who are here trying to figure out how to not only survive but thrive in this crazy world.

And to the men who may be poking around this site: Please be good men. You have no idea how much a good woman needs you, and what you can achieve together.

Peace xo

p.s. Good luck Chk on the dating site. :-)

Anonymous said...

Amen to Anomymous above 11h37 and Anonymous 12h32. Im in the exact same boat!
I live in a rather large city and the few men around my age who are good looking educated and driven seem to all wanna remain single while enjoying the tons of girls on Tinder that are willing to sleep with them, no questions asked.. these girls are probably hoping to get commitment that way..
These guys seem to be living the life, and don't even seem to slightest desire to put effort into courting quality, pretty, feminine, educated women like me who have higher standards and requirements. Its a real plague I tell you, and quite frustrating. I'm 28 yrs old and have been single for over 3 years, and so are a lot of my ladies friends. At this point, Im hoping as they get closer to 35-40, men will seek commitment from girls like me when they figure its times to throw in the towel and start having a family..
Right now, I seem to come across guys that take me on a few dates and it seems once they realize I won't sleep with them and have more "rigid" standards and expectations as to how I expect to be courted (more old fashioned style) they pull the slow fade away.. I witness it all around me.
You obviously have your beta guys with less options that are willing to date me, but I need a a man who's masculine and takes the lead, etc. All of those who possess the masculine qualities Im attracted to, are the ones who don't need to settle down, for they get all the perks of being single with the pool of young women giving it all away in desperate hopes of catching the guy.
Its a rough place out there for the single ladies right now and it doesn't look too bright ahead :(
I'm still hoping one will eventually recognize my worth

Michelle

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror, happy holidays...
Anon dec 6 @ 9:26pm here.... I did what you said-- cut him off. I haven't talked to him in 10 days and told him I was moving on and dating other people. He texted me last night," you can replace the companion but you won't ever replace the feeling". Is there anything I should say specifically in return? I just responded that I had something very pressing going on (which I do) and I did!'t feel like talking about it right now.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,

It's me again (Mary) :).

I have been thinking and my question is: do you think that some men are more feminine than other men? LOL OK I know, some men like to be chased and forsake their God given roles of being the leader/ pursuer... but do you think that in society there are certain types of men that are more prone to this behavior?

For example, the DM in my situation is, or 'used to be' a goth ( a little less now that he's getting older although he is still dying his hair black) . I certainly don't have anything against goths but I wonder if these men have more feminine traits than other men? I really don't want to insult goths but knowing that my DM used to wear a little eyeliner, had his hair done in a 'big' way, and now, knowing that he seems to want me to do all the work (chase him) ...... In other parts of his life, he is more manly, as in lifting weights when he feels like it , wanting to look muscular etc.....

I hope I don't sound too confusing, I wasn't sure how to write my question down. I'm just wondering if there are certain types of men that are more loving the feminine way of life..........?

Also, I always love your analogy of how it's a man's desire to go after the buck and to chase it down for hours and days until he's got it. The thrill of the chase, yayy!! :) So I was thinking.... when a man doesn't like to chase.... when he's lazy.... is that similar to a man laying down a mouse trap in the huge woods ( aka sending 1 lame email) wanting to catch a buck too?

Hugs!! Mary

chk61 said...

@Anonymous 12/19/2014 at 12:32PM:

Indeed, I can relate. I ended a long term relationship in 2007 when I was 46. After that I had two short term (3 months spaced 9 months apart) attempts with a man two years my senior who I met through a shared avocation. I later learned he was hellbent on finding a woman at least 7-15 years younger, even though he did not want children and lied about his age online. The second 3 month go-around was in 2008. Recovering from that attempt to find love was extremely painful and I worked with him semi-regularly so it took me a LONG time to get over it.

Nothing until I met the D.M. online in late 2012, dated briefly off and on in 2013, and here it is the end of 2014. I have met no one else that I have wanted to pursue a relationship with. Just turned 53 and a half, and like you, am pretty, educated, fairly together, fun, and NOT crazy. It is difficult to remain optimistic about finding a partner at this age so I am trying to focus on appreciating the things I do have, rather than what I don't have.

Still, it gets lonely. ;-)

Anonymous said...

@chk61
Good for you that you keep dating new men. I hope you didn´t catch the cold from the last one in the end:-). When he didn´t ask you anything you should probably have butted in and started talking. That´s what I read somewhere - some men don´t mean it but sometimes they can´t stop talking about themselves. That´s why players are so good with women - they are usually skilled and pleasant conversationalists.

Yes, Mirror is right as usual, we should keep cool and a little aloof so that the man can´t read us straightaway. I did an experiment in front of the mirror today. I imagined talking to the trainer when we were parting. He suggested exchange of phone numbers, I said yes and smiled. So I stood in front of the mirror and replayed this scene. At the moment I said "yes" I looked in the mirror and I saw.... well, a smiling Christams tree full of lights! Oh, I must dim my light somehow, it´s so revealing. But is it possible? I have a very mobile face and lively eyes, what to do? Even in working situations sometimes something funny comes to my mind and I start smiling like this while communicating with someone. Especially with one man I noticed he took it personally (he is married) and lo and behold started pursuing me (just probingly, very lightly, of course I refused him). And I never smiled at him, I just smiled at something different in his presence. And it´s similar when I am on dates. I have rich imagination and crazy images often come to my mind which I find funny. E.g. once on a date with a boring, old-looking (not just looking, I guess he lied about his age and was really old) man I suddenly imagined him going to bed at night wearing a night cap with a pompom, the image was hilarious and of course I couldn´t help smiling.

My news is that I am corresponding with some new men so maybe something will come out of it. The trainer is still on my mind though, I can´t get him out of my system. I keep trying. It´s interesting that since he got my number he hasn´t signed in. My gut tells me that I will hear from him some time, I simply can´t help this feeling.

I hope everybody is fine, keep smiling:-)
Hopeful

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mary,
"do you think that some men are more feminine than other men...do you think that in society there are certain types of men that are more prone to this behavior?"

I do observe that there are some common traits or patterns. This is not based on science, this is solely based on my own experiences. But there are a few things I see repeatedly. And I hate to say this, but you asked, so I'm gonna' share it LOL. I see these themes below in a lot of the lives of the more "feminine" men:

1) They were raised without a strong male figure in their life. Meaning, many were raised by single mothers.

2) Or, on the flip side of that, I see that the ones who HAVE had a male figure in their life - had an overbearing mother who dominated over the father, and the boy as well. Meaning, the male figure in their life didn't possess a strong character.

Now, before I get hammered on for appearing as if I'm bashing single mothers. Please understand that the real message here is that every boy child needs a strong male figure in his life. A figure that has a moral compass that doesn't point South, one with strong values, one that encourages confidence and builds character in the boy, and one that believes honor is still of value in society.

And that doesn't have to be a father necessarily. While it's great when it is, this person can also be a mentor, like a "big brother" mentor, or an uncle, or a grandfather, or an older brother, or a friendly neighbor - there are lots of men that can be great mentors, providing guidance to young boys - whether the mother is single or not.

We need more men to start stepping up and becoming more willing to fulfill these roles in a young boys life, and to see the value that can come from doing so.

"when a man doesn't like to chase.... when he's lazy.... is that similar to a man laying down a mouse trap in the huge woods...wanting to catch a buck?"

Good analogy - and we all know that you can't catch a buck with a mousetrap LOL ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 18, 9:20 PM,
"I waited 2.5 months to do so, did i scare him off, gosh?"

Only time will tell dear. Although I don't see anything earth shattering here that comes off as extremely aggressive in nature based on what you shared that has taken place previously.

Best thing to do. . .let the tension on that rubber band build - and see if he springs back at you. Might be a couple weeks, so remain patient there. Some men completely bail during the holidays. I've seen this before. They either don't want to buy gifts, don't want to feel like they're in a relationship, don't want to meet family and friends, and some of them prefer to whore around at all the holiday parties and fesitivities as single men because those functions provide a lot of opportunities to meet new people. Not to mention, they're a great opportunity to take advantage of all the lonely hearts out there.

I've even seen committed men deliberately start a big fight right around the beginning of December that leads to a breakup come the 3rd week of the month, freeing them for the holidays and New Year - then crawling back around the second or third week of January, to slip back into their relationship.

"when in the world can you invite guys to parties"

Depends on the man mostly and the level of interest he displays in wanting a relationship. But most times, it's best to wait until after the man has asked you for a commitment and you're actually in a committed relationship with him. Because these holiday functions, when you bring a date like that, people tend to assume you're together - meaning, in a relationship. And it makes the man feel the same way.

So a man who isn't all that interested in a committed relationship will most likely turn down invitations that make him feel like he's in one. A man that wants a committed relationship and is willing to explore entering into one with a woman will be more apt to accept the invitation.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

Thanks again for your helpful reply! I totally agree with what you said about boys needing a male role model/ mentor in their lives!

"Or, on the flip side of that, I see that the ones who HAVE had a male figure in their life - had an overbearing mother who dominated over the father, and the boy as well. Meaning, the male figure in their life didn't possess a strong character."

In the case of my (very feminine acting) DM, he did have an overbearing mother. A very controlling one who definitely dominated over the (step)father. His own father died when he was six years or so, and before that, his father was not at home most of the time.

My DM truly doesn't behave like a man, and he is so overly sensitive. In the past, whenever I cracked a friendly little joke, he would get furious and thought I was making fun of him (which I didn't). On the other hand, he often made cruel remarks towards me and whenever I got upset about it, he would say: "Ha! Ha! I was just joking!" even though it was obvious that those truly weren't jokes. I think he has psychopathic tendencies... Do you think most DM's are a little psychopathic/ narcissistic/ sociopathic?

My DM likes to have it all served to him on a golden platter and ugh it still frustrates me to think about that. I still love him and that frustrates me even more! Sometimes I wish I could look inside his head. To me it feels like he doesn't even care if all he hears are crickets chirping in the distance :(

xoxoxo Mary

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 21,1:44 AM,
"Do you think most DM's are a little psychopathic / narcissistic/ sociopathic?"

I do think that most, if not all of them, do have a personality disorder of some sort - and that is what disables them from being able to form healthy relationships with others, even beyond romantic ones. Because a lot of times, you will also see that these folks don't have solid relationships elsewhere either. Meaning, the relationships they do have are full of drama, many times due to their own actions, and many times, these folks have broken friendships and familial relationships as well, and tend not to get along with others at work or elsewhere very well either. Generally, a pattern of dysfunctional relationships becomes evident in their lives.

Anonymous said...

This isn't talked about so much but there are countless seduction communities catering to men that teach them techniques like the one above (Mary's DM)... flipping the script so the male is the victim after saying or doing something really shitty and he can get away with even worse behavior because you are so busy chasing him trying to make things "right" only to be further blamed even for their bad behavior. Most women don't think to look for this and can easily fall prey to this as we wouldn't dare do this to others, so we don't even suspect it may be done to us.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Ms. Mirror,

I wanted to get your perspective on this. So, I've been talking to a guy for a number of months. He's a native of where I live, we have mutual friends, etc, but just never met while he was home for holidays and such. He'd like/star/favorite/whathaveyou many of my posts on all of those crazy social networks - like really keeping tabs on my goings-on. We have a lot of the same interests and could talk about anything. I let him initiate all communication and would sometimes initiate once or twice to be nice. The first and only real time I tried to pursue, I got bent out of shape when he wouldn't respond and what I noticed was that he disappeared on me for a good week or so. He might have still followed my life on Twitter/FB/etc intermittently, but he stopped all direct communication. Once I realized how much of an idiot I was, I backed off, calmed down, and he came around and picked up again as if nothing happened.

Last month, he indicated he was coming home for the holidays and wanted to go out on a date at some point. We both seemed pretty excited about the prospect. He talked about the future when he moves back and I remembered your advice from a previous article and played it off. Over the last few weeks, we'd just stop talking for a day or two and I'd wonder if it was something I said or his interest was waning. Rather than ask him why the silence, I just let it slide and sure enough, he'd come right back and either act like nothing happened or asked ME why I was silent or if anything was wrong. During one of those episodes, he indicated that he missed talking to me. I'm thinking, "OK, great. I know he's thinking about me in some regard."

So there was a social gathering a few days ago that he wanted me to come to - I imagine he also felt it would be a comfortable environment for us to initially meet without the awkwardness of a first date since there were a number of mutual friends there. Leading up to that, he said he was nervous I wouldn't like him and I said ditto. Still, we were both looking forward to seeing each other there. As soon as I walked in, he was instantly flirting with me and we'd jokingly text each other across the table about whatever was happening in the room that we didn't want to say aloud. At some point, we sat next to each other, knees touching and still talking about whatever. I felt like things were going just fine and then I started drinking - a lot - to help my nerves settle. We had moved to standing together and at one point, I told him I liked him and he reciprocated. But then I'm pretty sure that the alcohol really took hold and I started acting clingy, touchy-feely, etc - just a hot mess of stuff that I'm usually not with guys I really like. Friends drove me home and he texted me that he hoped I got home safely. The next morning, he asked how I was feeling. My response was "Ugh" and I was sorry for anything that I said or texted while drunk. His response was "you're fine. You should have eaten more," etc and that was the extent of our conversation. I haven't heard from him since then.

I'm level-headed enough to know that he's home for the holidays and his attention is going to be elsewhere. But this is where the reactionary panic has set in because he's still hanging out/communicating online with some mutual friends, but hasn't said a peep to me (even though we've been through this "silent treatment" a few times now). Our signs are pretty compatible (he's a Taurus), but I also see Taurus men are notorious for the disappearing act. I know it's not up to me to initiate contact because that could really mess up things, but I'm concerned that my behavior that night blew it anyway.

Did I really blow this? I really hope being patient and just continuing on with my life in the meantime will help and he'll come back around.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 21, 3:26 PM,
"Did I really blow this?"

It's hard to say dear. You do only get one chance to make a first impression. But he's circled around before, so after some time passes and this situation passes, he may do that again.

Either way, don't beat yourself up about it dear. You're not the first woman to be in this situation, and you probably won't be the last LOL. Give this some time to pass, play it cool, remain confident, don't reach out to him, and see if he circles back around. Give him time to move past this. And moving forward, it might be best to institute a two drink maximum for yourself when on dates LOL.

Smile dear - it's not the end of the world. He's only one man. . .on a planet full of em ;-)

Anonymous said...

From Anon 12/21, 3:26 --

You make a valid point to give it time and see if things pass. That's what I'm trying to do, though some recommend I reach out (NO!). I feel that he's circled back in the past at various points when he saw I wasn't going to chase or be confrontational about it. In truth, it kills me not to hear from him after we've been in contact pretty consistently and have said things, but I need to live life as usual and act like it doesn't affect me.

I somewhat regret telling him I like him in person because it's scarier than saying so in text (which he said first a few months ago). Maybe things would be different, but who knows? Apparently, I wasn't that terribly out of control according to a friend I spoke with today, but I still imagine I was still hanging all over this guy (he really seems more reserved about PDA and stuff) and freaking him out. I recall reading something you said about eagerness and I think that's what happened. I was so cool and nonchalant before (hence the whole disappearing act wouldn't cause me to react toward him), got drunk at this thing and couldn't keep myself in check. And he'll start to second guess whether I'm someone he might want to potentially date. Or, test me to see if I'm really clingy and crazy. It's slightly weird because he's talking to people we've talked about as if he's trying to get a rise or reaction out of me.

He has a limited amount of time left at home for the holidays. If he DOES reach out before leaving, should I simply ignore it?

On a related note -- I've dated a Taurus before and they DRIVE ME CRAZY!

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, Hope everything is okay with you...

I ran into the DM yesterday.... (he lives nearby but I had been NC for 3 months0.

It was just small talk, he didn't say anything about us really (like he never does) and I was afraid to start talking about it myself because (from reading here) I figured that if a man wants to talk, that he will INITIATE that talk. One of the first things he said (like most people do), was : "How are you?" and I just said "fine".... (I wasn't sure what to say but after reading all the articles, I don't think it would have been a good idea to say "Not very good. I'm feeling sad" or whatever?)

He didn't say "We need to talk" , no... He just talked about boring things and I wanted to keep it short and keep on going but he kept talking (about nothing of interest).

At one point though during the conversation he asked if I'm (still) feeling sad? I wasn't sure what to respond to that because of course, I'm feeling VERY sad but I wasn't sure what the best way was to respond to that, also because he never seems to appreciate it when I show my true feelings. So in that moment I just replied with: "Do YOU feel sad?" He said he does. Otherwise he didn't really say anything. And I'm not sure if I believe him.... do you believe him, Mirror? Shouldn't he put more effort into it/ me/ talking to me/ contacting me if he would truly feel sad?

Should I have done or said anything to spur him on to say more? I just didn't want to push him?

I'm sorry for the long post....... I'm just wondering what to do when a DM asks "how are you?"... Should you always pretend that all is well with you as long as the DM doesn't really initiate a talk?

Something else that's of importance is that I feel like he just wants me as his f buddy although he often also said he loves me and denied the f buddy thing. But at the same time I was never allowed to ask questions and he even told me that I'm the only one he has a temper with / acts cold aka rude towards to at times. (I'm like, why??? And I want him to apologize for that). I've asked him why and he said it is because I always ask the same questions. But I have barely asked him questions but he did seem to have a problem with it when I asked him (three months ago , before the 3 month NC started) if something's wrong because he stopped contacting me.

I feel like such a mess, Mirror... I keep hoping for at least one good talk (in the past there were few moments where he opened up) but it's out of my control obviously as I can't 'make' him talk... ?

xoxo,

Mary

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 22, 7:47 PM,
"If he DOES reach out before leaving, should I simply ignore it?"

Play it cool, don't jump on it immediately - but I wouldn't ignore it either. In this particular case, this guy hasn't necessarily treated you poorly, he may have simple been taken back a bit by the events of the evening and needs a bit of time/space is all. I don't think this one's disappearing out of deliberate ignorance.

So if he circles back around, take a bit of time to respond and then simply behave as if nothing happened - and don't bring that evening up. Don't apologize profusely and focus on it heavily and talk him into changing his mind about you LOL ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mary,
"I just replied with: "Do YOU feel sad?" He said he does...Shouldn't he put more effort into it/ me/ talking to me/ contacting me if he would truly feel sad?"

Well that depends on what he's sad about - is it the holidays? Is it over you? Is it over something personal in his life? If you sense he meant that about you, then a mans words and actions should align. When they don't, that a red flag for BS. But I'm not sure what was making him sad here in this instance, it could've been anything possibly.

"I'm just wondering what to do when a DM asks "how are you?"... Should you always pretend that all is well with you as long as the DM doesn't really initiate a talk?"

If you're speaking with him, and you're in contact with him, it's always best to be very positive and upbeat. People are drawn to radiant energy. They want to be around it, and they want to experience more of it. Negative energy causes people to step back. Positive energy draws them towards you.

Additionally, if you inform a DM that you're sad, and that it's because of him - if he's a DM with bad intent or he's immature...he'll most likely take advantage of that and begin to emotionally manipulate you. It's never wise to play your cards with someone you don't completely trust. Because if you do that, it's basically the equivalent to handing them the "key" to push your buttons. If you tell them exactly what upsets you, immature men and men with bad intent will begin toying with that, pushing those buttons, bringing your insecurities to the surface, and then taking advantage.

"I want him to apologize for that"

If that's the case, then you shouldn't be in communication with him UNTIL he apologizes:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/dating-when-why-how-use-no-contact-rule.html

The consequence for him treating you poorly is - no further access to you until he treats you right.

"I keep hoping for at least one good talk (in the past there were few moments where he opened up) but it's out of my control obviously as I can't 'make' him talk... ?"

You can't control others dear, only your reaction to them. And when people prove to you that they are not capable of making you happy, or they're unwilling to do so - then the answer isn't to try to devise ways to control that - the answer is to accept the reality that they're unwilling or incapable of fulfilling your needs and you walk away.

Trying to pound a square peg into a round hole is a fruitless effort in life.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"I've asked him why and he said it is because I always ask the same questions. But I have barely asked him questions but he did seem to have a problem with it when I asked him (three months ago , before the 3 month NC started) if something's wrong because he stopped contacting me."

I don't think he was referring to the amount of questions, I think he was referring to the same one several times. And what may have happened there is that he translated that as insecurity. Meaning, he sensed you were unsure and a bit insecure about how he felt about you, your actions then fell in line with that, and he experienced this several times. It's always best to not take action on your emotions, because most of us end up regretting that later down the line. If you feel insecure in the relationship, or you sense he's changed and something might be up - instead of asking and using WORDS, use your ACTIONS instead - by disappearing and pulling back yourself, and mirroring his behavior.

This keeps things balanced, and men also sense this. Theirs is the language of action, they understand the unspoken quite well. So when a man begins distancing himself, don't bother using words. Instead, do the same yourself. Pull back, take time to yourself, take space for yourself, give him space, keep things balanced - and make HIM wonder why YOU are NOT freaking out. See what I mean? You actually take control by NOT doing anything. Sometimes doing nothing is actually doing something, ya' know?

Men sense that. They expect you to use words. And when you don't, when you don't freak out and become insecure and start questioning them as they expect you to, then THEY start to freak out and question THEMSELVES. They start wondering why YOU don't appear to care or be bothered. And if they're a genuinely interested man, THEY will come to YOU to initiate a "talk" to see what's up, reassure themselves, and repair things. Draw people TOWARDS you ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everybody,

@Gemini50
Gem, your story with Scorpio is unfolding in an interesting way. Basically, the situation has reversed and he behaves as if he was courting you, do I understand it correctly? When I thought about it something occurred to me which I would like to share. I think he has changed because for the first time in your relationship history you are giving him unconditional love. In the past you were needy although you might not have shown it to him. Now you are able to let him go and let him go genuinely and he can feel it and that´s unconditional love, isn´t it? Now you are able to let him go and give him his freedom and space and even a girlfriend, which means you are giving him what HE needs and wants, not what YOU would need from him. That´s real love. And that´s what I wanted to point out - that these player types of men are insecure as Mirror has said many times and perhaps the only cure they need is unconditional love. Because most women who pursue them don´t and can´t give it to them. (It´s not that gentlemen don´t need such love but maybe they are not so demanding of it as they are stronger). Women who are with players are usually obsessed with them (for various reasons) but in most cases in my opinion they don´t REALLY love them (I know it from my own experience with player-like men).

I hope I communicated my point clearly. Please don´t think I am backing player´s bad behaviour though.

And one message for mature women: I´ve just read a study on middle-aged male behaviour and mating and the result is not surprising (at least to me): Almost 100% of the surveyed men in this age group highly prefer good conversation over good looks (of course, they prefer groomed women but their physical characteristis are much less relevant than any woman would think. They stated they had fallen in love with their woman through conversing with her. They also expressed regrets that many woman focus on looking goog instead of developing their conversation skills, broading their mind by reading, etc. What is surprising though, is the fact that most men seem to be reluctant to admit this openly because they are conditioned to "go for good looks and youth" in a woman). So, mature ladies, don´t sit at home and go out there confidently because you´ll definitely be appreciated.:-)

Happy holidays to all of you,
Hopeful

Anonymous said...

(Mary) Thanks SO MUCH, Mirror!!! ((((((((( HUGS ))))))) You have so much wisdom and I'm so grateful for your wise replies / articles.

When he asked me if I feel sad, he meant if I feel sad about us. So when I asked him: "Do YOU feel sad?" and didn't give him insight into my feelings, he meant to say yes he feels sad about 'us'. But then, like you pointed out, his words and actions don't align at all. If he would truly feel sad, surely he would have done more than send just that one email... (and now running into him). I asked him why he only sent one email and he said he was 'afraid to come see me'. :/ Hm.....

I will do my best to be positive and upbeat if I happen to encounter him like I did the other day. Although I will have to work on my eyes (like Hopeful, LOL) because they always seem to light up. Some time ago he said that he missed me, and I asked "what did you miss" and he said: "The way your eyes always lit up when you saw me". :/.

Thanks for saying that it's not wise to play your cards with someone you don't completely trust. I was doubting myself a bit but now I feel better about it. I've known him for quite some time and I would say he knows me well because in the past I was an 'open book' to him. Very naive!! He always knew (knows?) exactly what buttons to push.

I doubt that the DM is ever going to apologize so it must be best to go back to NC . I don't think he'll ever be able to figure out on his own what it is that he did wrong. He must be one of those people that isn't capable of making me happy/ is unwilling to do so. I feel like his happiness always comes first and as long as he gets what he wants, all is well in his own little world.

Without a doubt I have to work on my own insecurities. I feel like my insecurities are always the reason why I get anxious. I've tried to pull back in the past and stay quiet but then eventually I get so worked up that I end up asking that one question just in hopes that he'll say something THAT mean, that I will finally be able to break away from him once and for all. Not sure if that makes sense..

But I have done so much better in this past year thanks to your articles and all your comments on this site. I have not initiated contact once (so proud of that) and I have not even gone to his house with some excuse (for example , in 2013 I would still do those little things). Not anymore! I haven't even sent an email first even though he complained about that several times !

What also hurts me is that the P has often tried to 'get rid of me' by not saying a word and just disappearing. Sometimes it hurts less when someone yells at you than when he pretends like you're dead to him.

I'll do my best though to try and stop freaking out about it all and to continue to live my own life. I think it's also a good idea to reread your article again about how to value yourself :)

Thanks so much, dear Mirror . I wish I could give you a big hug!!!! :)
Mary

chk61 said...

@Gem50: Thanks for sharing your story about Scorpio. Wow, you laid your heart bare and got crickets for several days. That was brave of you...it seems as long as he has another woman in his life, there will be more of this cat and mouse game. I completely agree - why accept only HALF a Christmas with him, when he goes off to his other life for the other half? Nope, you're way better off being comfy at home, even alone, in your PJ's, with perhaps a glass of wine, Netflix, some chocolate and maybe even a good cathartic cry. ;-) You're a strong woman and you did and do continue to come out just fine on the other side!

As for me, I am such a romantic fool....despite everything I've experienced with my D.M. I remember when I met him two years ago...sigh...yes, TWO years ago. We had had three dates by Christmas Eve. I was at a fun party with friends of my family, wistfully wondering and hoping what was to transpire with this new man. I recall when I got an email from him on Christmas eve I felt my heart leap and I was so happy that this man was thinking of me. He had been to a church service with his kids and told me about singing at that, after one of our dates we sang in the car on the way back...it was fun, light, exciting and OH so loooong ago.

Today since no one has captured my attention since then, I think of that time and the promise of potential new love...wistfully. I am not sure changing my behavior would have changed the outcome so thankfully I've let go of beating myself up about it (for the most part...I still regret some of it). I, like you, have been tempted to be honest and tell him how I feel but the circumstances are different so I am staying silent. Several times I stuck my neck out with him and it got me nowhere. Attending his party was sticking my neck out, yet I don't really regret that either. I've been silent since then, one month ago. Silent Night, indeed! There is a small part left in my silly, illogical, romantic side that STILL hopes he will contact me in some form over the holidays!

As for my online date, the day after he messaged me that he had had a nice time. He said I was a delightful person. I wrote back, thanked him and thanked him profusely for treating on the "date" (he INSISTED, believe me ladies, I TRIED to pay my half which would have been about $15-20).

About four hours later he writes back: "are you already back on the (online dating site name) manhunt?" Parentheses were added by me...I don't want to divulge which site I met him on.

"Manhunt." Nice. I was not interested in seeing him again anyway, and I was perfectly polite about thanking him for treating and that it was nice to meet him. I responded that the word "manhunt" sounded a bit aggressive but that yes, I had already been in contact with a couple of other people and was in the process of setting up meetings with them, if that was what he meant. I added something like. "Online dating is no walk in the park. ;-)" I thanked him again for meeting me, and wished him a good weekend. I was trying to be light about it, I was not interested in meeting again, and acknowledging that it's a numbers game, and this is the nature of the beast with online dating. Dating is hard, and includes rejection sometimes. I actually really DO NOT like online dating!!!

His response: "I knew you were a player."

Sigh. He pursued me, we had a meeting, and I did not feel a connection. Yet, I was courteous and it was a pleasant meeting. And I know dating is hard for men as well.

So, now I'm a "player". Pretty hilarious and sad at the same time!

A new year awaits, and we really don't know what is around the corner so we must all try to stay positive and accept WHAT IS. Merry Christmas to all, or whatever holiday you celebrate!!!!

Anonymous said...

From Anon - Dec 22, 7:27 PM

You said:
"Play it cool, don't jump on it immediately - but I wouldn't ignore it either."

Thank you! I completely agree with that thought - I wouldn't want to respond immediately, but not necessarily ignore it, either. I've heard nothing and I may not while he's still in town (which would suck of course), but I realize there is no real timetable on if/when a guy will circle back. If anything, the holidays just seem to add more pressure on people with some sort of expectations (whatever they may be - I don't know ... I don't have any).

I realize my mistake and shouldn't have blown up his phone at the bar. ("two-drink maximum" as you suggested moving forward!). But, I already said I was sorry the following morning and agree with you that there's no need to beat a dead horse.

I know he has some insecurities from the past and I don't know if that's what's driving his current behavior or not. I almost feel like you have to just chalk it up to an unfortunate incident and give things a second chance. Everything had seemed to go well enough otherwise.

For the past few days, I've just kind of faded off actively participating in social media. He still follows me on everything, so I imagine he has to be reading what I'm saying (or, as of right now, not saying). It's like instituting my own NC rule/"falling off the face of the earth" in a potentially much more limited time frame. Is it even worth it to try?

In the meantime, I'll continue working on my fitness, hobbies, and maybe go on a few dates with other guys (he could never understand why I wasn't actively dating someone).

In the end, whether I've wanted them to or not (and in all cases it has been ultimately not - but the relationships had left me hurt me badly), they always come back around in as little as a few months to over a year. Men are certainly interesting like that.

Thanks for your advice - you have never steered me wrong and I appreciate it!

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everybody,

I must share my latest news. On Christmas Eve I look at my mobile and lo and behold, I get a text from... the cyclist! After 6 months of disappearance. I couldn´t believe it, honestly, I didn´t expect anything from him and when I saw the number (I had deleted his contact before) I thought it was something from the bank because the number endings are similar. He sent a nonchalantly sounding text: "How are you? Merry and Happy Christmas to you". Typical of what Mirror often says about disappearing men - it was just a knock on the door to see whether I am still there. Which I am not LOL. I haven´t responded and I am not going to unless he tries again and again with some less nonchalant content. It´s easy for me at this point because firstly - it´s the trainer who is on my mind now (although I am fighting boldly with mental images of him); and secondly, all the memories have come back to me of how the cyclist not only took me for granted but let me know it repeatedly, and I don´t want it anymore. From him or any other person. The trainer is gone but at least he treated me like a gentleman on the dates. Life is full of surprises, isn´t it? Last year at this time I was thinking about the cyclist and now I can´t be bothered. Who knows what next year will bring?

So now I am moving on. I am corresponding with yet another man. And the men who let me down are going to hear... crickets.... LOL. I finally understood the geniality of the idea Mirror suggests overe and over again - silence. It doesn´t cost you time or energy and it brings its own reward.

Don´t be sad, the best is yet to come for all of you, I firlmy believe that. Otherwise you wouldn´t be here studying and improving yourselves.
Smiles:-):-):-)

Gem50 said...

@Hopeful: I don’t think the situation has changed; rather, our behaviors have. My behavior has changed because I do not kid myself. Scorpio’s behavior has changed because the only way we communicate is by his contact.

I don’t think I can consider his behavior as courting. Rather, he is pursuing, and the intent of his pursuit remains the same: sex. He is clear with what he wants, that hasn’t changed. The length of time he’s been contacting me remains a curiosity for me.

When I start to wonder things about him, I catch myself. When I feel that first step on that old path of trying to figure out the “whys” of Scorpio’s behavior, when I’m thinking that he and his needs are more important than me and my needs, I stop myself verbally (I call it self-talk). I have to literally stop whatever I’m doing to cut the line of thought -- and the connection the thought gives me to him. I repeat to myself, “me, me, me, me,” and then I force myself to think about what I want for me. When I feel the physical impact of the “cut” (remember the addiction theory), I remind myself that my life and future is not about him, it’s about me. To buoy me through the waters, I remember a couple comments my brother has made to me, about me, over the past couple of years (things I never saw and things I certainly never thought anyone else saw), and I recall Ms. Mirror’s words of strength and support to all of us.

In regards to love, I don’t think there is any greater gift – to feel within, and to give and receive with another (the giving and receiving between two people is what I call MAGIC!!). And yes, I do believe that love can be unconditional.

I feel a need to add a warning label re: unconditional love. Unconditional love is the best feeling on earth – but it can also be very painful, and is why, especially in this day and age, we have to do the work Ms. Mirror explains to filter out those we fall for. Not many of us are to the level of Jesus or Mahatma or Mother Theresa; most of us are still trying to figure out our existence – we are still a work in progress. So, be careful with your love ladies. Given to the wrong people… well, we see on this site what can and does happen to too many of us.

Thanks for your comment Hopeful. I don’t know about your idea for a “cure” (smile), but I do think you are right about Scorpio’s insecurity. I also think you are on the right track with your actions in your dating world; keep being true to your self.

Continued

Gem50 said...

2 of 2

@ Chk and the Ladies: It was tough, but I did well Christmas Eve. Although Scorpio kept creeping into my thoughts, I talked myself through it. It would have been so easy for me to text him, have him over, but it is not what I want.

I left work early and spent the afternoon at home making mince-meat pies (yep, for the Brits here, they are being made in the US just as I was taught as a child by my Nan in South-end.

I made myself a nice dinner, had a couple drinks and watched “The other woman” with Cameron Diaz. Funny movie, some good stuff in it, and I suggest it for the ladies (Men too, if you have any question of what a woman scorned is capable of lol). I went to bed early to read and woke up a few hours later to Scorpio texting. I didn’t give in.

Regarding your comment, Chk, of my laying my heart bare, I think the only thing I can add to that is: I just may have, but it doesn’t mean I handed it (my heart) to him. We can love and stay intact – we can love without handing off our Power. In fact, when I sent that text, I felt more powerful. Keep in mind, I wrote it in response to his text. His words definitely stung and I felt the pain. I saw him trying a tactic to get me to change my mind out of fear; or try to get me to turn into a “crazy” woman, so he could sidestep and move on from his role in this and ignore whatever it was that has been going on between us – because I do feel there is a lesson for us both.

For the half hour or so that I looked at his text, I saw two choices in front of me: more pain or more love. I chose love.

Scorpio showed in his response six days later (I think that is the longest he has gone NC), what Ms. Mirror says is EXACTLY true. She tells us when guys act out, IF we react to them even one little bit, one message, one quick text, one drive-by, one fake-mistake call, one ANY-thing, they don’t feel the consequences of their actions and won’t figure their stuff out. I don’t think Scorpio has figured his stuff out yet (who really has?), but I think he’s got movement. Of course, I could be absolutely wrong as well. But it doesn’t matter. What matters is me.

Chk, regarding the “player” comment from the online dater, that was just a stab at you girl, and he actually showed his insecurities by taking that route. Sorry it didn’t work out, but you sound like you are in it now to go the long haul with the dating site – I hope a good man finds you!

Thank you Ms. Mirror for everything you have done for so many this year.

All the best to everyone in 2015, keep looking forward.

{Hugs}

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, you wrote: "So when a man begins distancing himself, don't bother using words. Instead, do the same yourself. Pull back, take time to yourself, take space for yourself, give him space, keep things balanced - and make HIM wonder why YOU are NOT freaking out."
This makes a lot of sense but I am having difficulty doing this, because my boyfriend and I live together. Mirroring his 'tuned-out' behaviour drains me of my positive energy, and I feel trapped in his unhappiness and 'problems' (feeling tired, ill, mad). It's always funny to me that man complain about women complaining, because my experience is that they complain a lot more than me. But we have different needs, I guess, where he just wants to feel that he can let go of all pretext when he is at home, I need to feel cherished at home - by him. So where I need his contribution for me to feel good, he does not need me (he just needs me not to complain). It seems that my 'emotional needs' (boy do I dislike that term) involve him and that he is unable to meet them (he has a long list of 'crazy exes' if you know what I mean, and that just tells me that he does not know how to handle a woman's emotions). So, I am thinking now that a better balance would be for me to get my own place. If I move out and that makes things better, who is to say that the same dynamic won't start up again when we move in together again? What do you think Mirror? Do men really change when you take repossession of your independence by moving out? To me it feels like a struggle with no end - every time I express a need (this may be as simple as moving the heavy pots to a lower shelf in the kitchen, or changing the mattress on my side of the bed for a harder mattress) it is a huge struggle, and it makes me feel unwelcome in his life.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 27, 7:01 AM,
"If I move out and that makes things better, who is to say that the same dynamic won't start up again when we move in together again? What do you think Mirror? Do men really change when you take repossession of your independence by moving out?"

That dynamic may indeed begin again if the situation were the same once more. And whether or not HE changes really isn't the issue. The issue is whether or not YOU are happy (with him). He is who he is and chances are that he won't experience any huge change in his personality unless he wants to. It takes two to make a relationship work, and if only one is doing the work while the other sees nothing wrong or no need to change, then the end result will be the same - and it'll be one person towing the relationship along, carrying the full burden of it on their shoulders, and making sacrifices to keep it going.

"So where I need his contribution for me to feel good, he does not need me (he just needs me not to complain)."

Be mindful of not becoming co-dependent here dear. Meaning, don't depend on HIM to provide you with your happiness. Your happiness should come from within YOU, whether he's around or not. Another person cannot provide you with your happiness, they can only ADD to it. And on the flip side, if another person is draining you of your happiness, then it might be time to rethink whether or not this person is the RIGHT person for you.

I understand a woman's need to feel cherished and desired, and your mate should be WILLING to fulfill those needs. That's why two people are together - because they make one another feel good about themselves and each other. So if you're not placing heavy, unrealistic needs upon him (meaning, if you're not co-dependent) and you're only requiring the basic needs that two people provide one another in a relationship and he's unable or unwilling to provide that to you - then chances are he's simply not mature enough to be part of a real committed relationship right now. Because mature adults understand these basic concepts in relationships and they are willing to do the WORK required to keep them going. They are willing to make the sacrifices necessary to make the other person happy. And they are happy to do so, because they realize that that's what being in a happy, healthy relationship requires. It requires work, sacrifice, flexibility, compromise and a willingness to participate in those things. If the individual does not wish to take part in those things, then they are truly not ready for a committed relationship. Which leads me to my next point - him and his "crazy" exes.

It has been my observation that the men who complain that all their exes are "crazy" or that the world is full of nothing but "crazy" effed up women - are the ones who are majorly responsible for creating those effed up women they're always complaining about. When people go "crazy" in relationships that's generally because something DROVE them there - drove them to that emotional space and mindset. Something literally drove them crazy. And when you think about it logically like that, then the next question naturally becomes - what drove them crazy?

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

So here we are, in your case, and you're writing here about how this man is miserable, complaining all the time, and doesn't like to do the work necessary to keep a relationship going - he just thinks that now because he has you, he no longer has to contribute to the relationship. . .and it should just magically keep working and moving along. And this is bothering you. Bothering you to the point that you're contemplating moving out. So ask yourself. . .if you didn't move out and this were to continue, say for months or years, don't you think that eventually this man's lackadaisical attitude and his unwillingness to do the work required on his part to keep the relationship going would drive you crazy too? I mean, let's face it - there's only so much laziness and complaining and bad attitude that one can tolerate before blowing up about it, ya' know?

So I guess what I'm trying to say here dear is that this man most likely has a history of being like this in relationships. And his attitude and demeanor in them usually drives the women who attempt to stay with him crazy because they get frustrated with him - they become disappointed that he's not the man they thought he was. And instead of leaving once they see that, instead they stayed and drove themselves mad trying to push him to be a part of the relationship and do the work necessary to keep it going. And when that happens, men like this get a free pass. Meaning, all of a sudden all the mistakes he was making in the relationship suddenly get washed away and they are not spoken of - because he now gets to blame his previous partners for the failure of the relationship (instead of himself and his lack of participation) because they went "nuts" on him. He gets to slap them all with the ole "crazy" label, wash his hands clean of any responsibility for it, and walk away looking like he played no part in it. . .because now the focus is all on the "crazy" ex. And it amazes me at how many people in society simply do not then ask themselves, "Why are all this man's exes so-called "crazy? And what made them so crazy?"

Chances are if you dig deep into that, you'll find that what made them crazy was stuff that was or wasn't taking place in the relationship - that the man was responsible for. Now granted there are a lot of insecure women out there who don't behave well in a relationship either, I get that, and I'm not blaming every crazy woman out there on a man. BUT. . .when you see a pattern of this playing out in a man's life, and he claims that every single ex of his is crazy - then that's a red flag. No man hits the "crazy lady" jackpot every single time he dates or enters into a relationship. I mean sure, even good gentlemen encounter the crazy lady once in a while who's insecure and just harms the relationship terribly by being so. But seriously, what are the chances that every single woman a man becomes involved with is crazy? Once in a while is one thing - but to have "a long list of 'crazy exes'" is not coincidence - it's a pattern - and it's a big red flag that the man himself is at the very least partially responsible for that pattern playing out in his life over and over and over again :-( It's a red flag that the man is probably not good at committed relationships and most likely, not mature enough to be ready for what's truly involved in keeping a good one going and moving forward.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

So my suggestion dear, would be to move into your own place - NOT to get him back - but to see for YOURSELF if this man is truly the RIGHT man for you or not. If you find that you do better on your own without him, that your mental well being is in a better place without this man in your immediate environment. . .then it may be time to think about cutting him loose and accepting the fact that he simply cannot fulfill your needs because he is UNWILLING to. He is a man who is unwilling to actively participate in a committed relationship by doing the WORK necessary and making the necessary SACRIFICES and COMPROMISES to keep it afloat. All of those things are required by BOTH parties in order to have a healthy, happy, long term committed relationship.

So do this for YOURSELF dear, not him. And see if it brings you the happiness you seek :-)

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror thank you for your very to-the-point advice of 28 Dec. You are dead-on. 'Codependence' has been on my list of one of the things to tackle - the way I understand it is that it's the condition where I 'do, do, do' but it's not purely for the other person, it's ultimately for myself because under the table, 'invisibly' I have a little price tag that I require be paid by the one I am doing things for, otherwise I start feeling resentful. So now, every time I start feeling resentful or hurt I realize that I have been overextending myself without having been asked to do so, and that I have no-one to blame but myself when the 'price' is not paid and I start feeling empty or unbalanced. So, you hit the nail right on the head - I am aware, and now I need to act on it. Yesterday I found a place to live and I will be moving there in two weeks' time. I realize it is not to get a reaction out of my boyfriend but to make sure I contain my energy and spend it where it is appropriate, and not more. I guess some part of me wishes to find a man with whom I don't have to take such self-preserving measures but maybe once I get the hang of taking care of myself, most men will turn into men that I don't have to take any self-preserving measures with, if you understand this weird logic, LOL. Thanks so much Mirror, there is no better sight than self-insight ;-) It's wonderful to read everyone's contributions to your blog and your advice, it helps so much with getting enlightened. All the best wishes to you and everyone else for the new year, and Mirror, I hope that you will continue to inspire and motivate us to take ownership of our lives also in 2015.

Anonymous said...

Dear mirror, I wish you all of life's blessings this new year. Thank you for empowering women as you have done here.

I have a question... I have had five dates with a guy and he is leaving for the next week to "be with family in the mountains of Virginia"... Something they do every year. He stated that he won't be able to be in touch, except by email the next week. because of the location and the cell phone connection-issue up there. That's fine,.. I'm not exclusive nor in love, but I'm not sure I'm buying that excuse.

When he returns, should I ignore his texts for a few days or how should I handle it? I have been dating other people as well,but not serious enough that I would take on a trip with me, if that's what he's doing. If that is indeed what he doing, I can't quite put my finger on why it bothers me or how I should handle it. I have no proof and it could be completely innocent , but if that is what he's doing... it makes me feel like he's a bit unfaithful to this other person.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 31, 6:17 AM,
I agree it is somewhat suspicious. Because generally speaking, not always but most times, where there's an Internet connection, there's usually cell phone capability. He could be referring to using a desktop that's online without a wireless signal, but like I said, these days, where there's one, the other is usually not far behind. Because in most places where it's hard to get an Internet connection, it's also hard to get a cell signal. I have a camp in the mountains. I don't get a cell signal at my camp - but I don't get an Internet connection there either. And if I brought in an Internet connection, I could also bring the cell signal in as well (via the Internet WiFi). And if his emails are coming through via a mobile device, then you know he's full of BS here. Again, there are exceptions to this, but like with me at camp in the mountains. . .it's not like there's not a signal anywhere to be found. If I drive about 3 miles down the road, I get one. And folks with Verizon phones get signals up there even more sporadically than me, because Verizon provides lots of the coverage that exists in rural places (because they are the provider with access to more towers than any other provider these days I believe). And I'm in Pennsylvania, just North of Virginia, in the Allegheny National Forest up at my camp where this all takes place. Signals are sketchy up there, but they do exist in random places, especially once you get into or near small towns.

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet, because we don't know exactly what the situation is where he's at. So observation will be necessary to determine if he's fibbing or not. But either way, just keep those things in mind. And if your gut is ringing alarm bells, don't quickly dismiss that, pay attention to it. He's free to do as he pleases, as are you, because there are no commitments here. But you also don't want to let yourself be strung along by a man who may be more serious with another than he's going to admit to, if he's visiting a woman or has taken one with him. So I'd pace myself, don't jump on those communications (because technically according to him, any communications you'd send back to him he'd have trouble receiving anyway, right?) and simply observe his behavior to see if his words align with his actions :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Ms. Mirror, I'd just like to thank you for all the help and support you've so kindly and generously provided to all of us women. I follow everyone's updates and post my own and wonder throughout the day how everyone is doing. Each time you answer someone's question or share a thought, it helps tremendously. You've helped me personally not only in dealing with the not-so-great-men in our lives but also to grow as a person and recognize negative patterns and change certain ways of doing things even when they are uncomfortable or difficult. I know it has been a difficult year for you losing your beloved dog. I wish you the very best in 2015. Thank you again.

Happy New Year!

Anonymous said...

Anon .From yesterday...
Dear Mirror: Happy new year and thanks for your reply. Well, he managed to email me while "in the mountains" at 9 pm last night. It was just a one-liner, "Happy new year" kind of sentence. I'm pretty sure it was from a computer because my email states whether or not it was from a mobile device. I'm not sure I want to respond or not. He may be telling the truth,but I know at some point he is going to have to go into town to get supplies and groceries, as he's staying there a week to fix up his cabin, he said. He has a sister and her family on the same property as well (different cabins) and they are all up there for the new year. At some point I am sure they will go into town for dinner or something. Should I hold off for a phone call and not respond to the email?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 1, 7:53 AM,
"Should I hold off for a phone call and not respond to the email?"

That's a personal decision at this point. You can respond and wish him the same, but if you do so, don't expect it to turn into a conversation. If he is busy with repairs and family and not in range of a signal, I doubt he's going to spend much time chatting on the computer. Just return the good wishes and give him plenty of time and space to take care of things and if he's a genuine kind of man, he'll be in touch with a call when he can :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everybody,

the other day I met my old girlfriend for a coffee. She is from a different town so we meet about once a year. Apart from other things I told her about my dating experiences and she was impressed...by my perseverance, determination, acquired experience, knowledge about men, etc. And I thought to myself: Yes, I have changed and despite the fact that I haven´t found the right man and my feelings have been bruised in the process I have become a wiser and improved version of myself overall. Which makes me feel proud. And that´s mostly thanks to this site, Mirror´s work and support and all the ladies´ comments here. Thanks to all of you again for everything. I wish you all a happy new year, much better than the previous one in all aspects of your life!
Hopeful

Anonymous said...

Happy New Year everyone! I've posted on/off over the past few years regarding my DM. Well MOA, you are so right on target as he reappeared a few months ago then proceeded to disappear again which is his typical MO. Anyway, just want you to know that your guidance has helped me so much through his disappearing/reappearing acts and I feel so strong and empowered through the lessons I've learned and knowledge I've gained from reading the articles and great posts on your site. I no longer feel the sadness that I used to associate with DM. I hate to say it but I actually find his antics rather amusing and have for some time now. I just sit back and watch it unfold and have to smile to myself and say "wtf, huh?" I started dating others more than a year ago and am happy in my life. Thanks so much to you MOA and to the ladies on this site who post their experiences - because of you all I'm a changed women. Stronger, wiser, and MUCH happier. Happy New Year!

Astrid

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
Thanks so much gals - for all your well wishes - and also for finding the lessons I share here that I've experienced myself so very useful to you. I'm honored to have touched so many lives in such a positive way, truly I am. Not many people get to say that but I do and to me, that's priceless. Helping you ladies helps myself in many ways and I'm honored to be a part of such a positive process.

Are you ladies noticing a theme here on this New Year's Day? I am - I'm sensing POWER. Meaning, empowerment. I'm seeing that many of you, even though you may have not met the right man yet, or any men at all - are finding that there's true joy, pride and a lot to be thankful for when it comes to self improvement and growth. It become so fulfilling that, as some of you have already noticed and stated, that you hardly even find yourself fretting over these men or dating issues anymore. It DOES become rather amusing and it feels great not to experience any anxiety from such matters anymore.

Investing in YOURSELF is ALWAYS WORTH IT. You will always get an immense return on that type of investment. I'm so proud of all of you here - keep up the good work gals - hold your heads high!

Mltn said...

Well, an update on me and co-worker/former BFF of 7 years. We had our final falling out at Christmas time in 2013, and I did not speak to him until Nov. of 2014, despite working in the same office. I recently found myself thrust into supervising him on a project.

He was being strange and avoiding responding to work-related emails and calls - like some ladies above, I second-guessed myself, thought that he was hurt by me. I tend to think, though, that he was angry to have his "toy" taken away, stung to have been told "no" by someone. Hurt pride more than hurt heart, you know?

At any rate, a few weeks ago he was completely failing to respond to emails and failing to work on this project, and I had to track him down in person in his office. When I'm dealing with a tense situation or difficult client, I have a "persona" that I adopt - I am positive and use humor to defuse the situation. That's what I did here - I did NOT want to be having an argument with him in his office in our workplace, so being fake-pleasant was the role I adopted.

Then I started getting emails from him. On New Year's Eve, he stopped by my office for a 20 minute chat. He emailed me on New Year's day about further thoughts from that convo.

The thing is, though, that the "anniversary" of the end was significant to me, we started transitioning our friendship to a more romantic/sexual one in December 2012, and it all fell apart at Christmas 2013, so I felt a visceral need to have him take some step at that time. Then my 40th birthday was Tuesday. I heard and saw nothing from him in any of this time. I feel somewhat "too little, too late" about whatever he's up to now.

Also, I strongly suspect that what he wants is to go back to being friends, with the "option" to maybe have sexual access to me if the mood strikes. I'm not interested, even if it's just platonic friendship that he wants. I was so in love with him, I had known him for nearly a decade and felt that I'd never really connected with someone on that level before. From a cost/benefit perspective, I don't want to chat with him about office politics and the weather when seeing or hearing from him continues to sting my heart and make me sad. I have plenty of platonic friends and office buddies who come free of his baggage and negative connotations.

I haven't responded to his New Year's day email. I'm actually about to take a week and a half off on vacation (I worked through the holidays), so I won't run into him for a bit.

I feel like he's definitely making a move toward me (like MOA says above, people respond to positivity, even fake positivity, lol), but I also feel like I don't want to get drawn into some ambiguous thing or some platonic friendship, and don't want to give him the benefit of my time or attention without an apology and some kind of statement from him regarding his intent/agenda. Mirror/ladies, would you agree? Or would you cautiously engage with him and see what's he's up to at this point?

Anonymous said...

thank you so much mirror for your posts..... I am learning so much from you ...... Happy new year dear ..... wishing you all the best..... I have lately commented on (what is the players signs).....

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mltn,
"would you cautiously engage with him and see what's he's up to at this point?"

I would not at this point. If he and the entire experience makes you sad, I see absolutely no need to place yourself into that mindset or put yourself through that, ya' know? And I also sense he may have done this deliberately (i.e. no action whatsoever or response on the project) in an attempt to draw you out and towards him. Because he did a complete 360 once that happened and something tells me it wasn't because he was fearing job loss or anything and your gut is even sensing that.

Now granted, you will have to engage him on work related matters in a civil manner. But that doesn't mean you have to strike up a friendship again - only a working relationship. There may be a time and a place for a personal friendship somewhere down the line, but I don't think you're ready for that yet and I don't think it'd be in your best interest right now because of that. Again, no need to put yourself through situations that only cause you sadness and pain. YOU are what's important.

Anonymous said...

I have been reading here for the last year or so, and just want to say 'thank you' to all of you and MOA for this site and for sharing your experiences. It is much appreciated. Happy New Year ladies!

Anonymous said...

Hi @Mltn, I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents here:

"I did NOT want to be having an argument with him in his office in our workplace, so being fake-pleasant was the role I adopted."

I totally get having to do the "fake-pleasant" thing. It's unpleasant for the side having to do it, but men sometimes mistake that for interest. But all you're trying to do is keep things civil.

"Then I started getting emails from him. On New Year's Eve, he stopped by my office for a 20 minute chat. He emailed me on New Year's day about further thoughts from that convo."

A similar thing happened to me when I was just trying to maintain civility when the guy saw it as a green light and mistakenly jumped to the conclusion that I might be ready to give him another chance. Well, he was wrong. I was just trying to be civil. So it sounds like he mistook your "fake-pleasantness" for renewed interest and decided well, what does he have to lose, might as well give it another shot.

"Then my 40th birthday was Tuesday. I heard and saw nothing from him in any of this time. I feel somewhat "too little, too late" about whatever he's up to now."

Did he miss your birthday just this past Tuesday? If so I bet it was deliberate.

"I haven't responded to his New Year's day email. I'm actually about to take a week and a half off on vacation (I worked through the holidays), so I won't run into him for a bit."

imo, i think he's just poking around to see if he can take advantage of you somehow. I wouldn't give him that opportunity. Sounds like he's just a "holiday tapper" looking to stir things around to see what he might be able to get out of it. He might end-up empty-handed, but either way, he doesn't really care. If he's a mean kind of guy, he might be satisfied just by seeing your reactions or getting a kick out of misleading you.

I agree with Ms. Mirror. I'd keep things work only for now and ignore his new year's message until you feel like you've had enough time to relax and think this through without feeling pressured. Besides you could always just say happy new year when you see him next. What's wrong with that? Women are not obligated to respond to every single thing a guy writes her (unless it's work stuff.) Enjoy your break and let him wait. He can wait, he's a grown man. (Note: If he starts screaming at you for not responding, then he's got issues...and he would not be a REAL man worthy of your time.)

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA, Happy New Year! thanks for all your help
I am Anonymous Dec. 17th, 1h22 PM.

(keep in mind we have never slept together and haven't seen each other in 2 months at this point)
Not surprisingly.. On Dec. 24th I received a text from my guy " Merry Christmas xx. Hope to see you soon". I did not answer. 4 days later, he wrote to me " you're not answering me.." To which I replied " Sorry I was with family when you texted. Lets catch up soon. Happy Holidays". Then he asked me if I was still single and I replied " Last time I checked" and he said " ok Good"..

2 days later he initiates another conversation... And I act aloof... he wanted to know what I was up to for NYE.. Telling me he was thinking about me and such.. I stopped writing in the middle of the convo and he reinitiated later on at night..

Cut to next day at 6hPM. He texts me asking me what Im up to tonight.. says he's gonna be at his mother's who lives in my neighbourhood and wanted to know if he could pass to see me. My answer " Pass by my place?.. Thanks but I'll pass. Have a good night"..
Then he starts rambling.. asking if I'm mad at him, telling me he didn't mean it like that.. that he just meant see each other ... bla bla..
I ignored all his questions/comments and only answered about how my previous NYE night was and asked him about his.. then I did not continue the convo..

Later that night he texts me the following " Im sad you did not want to see me tonight. Is it because you had someone over at your place?
My answer " we haven't seen each other in a while. Didn't seem fitting for you to drop by just like that at last minute".
He started again trying to convince me he didn't mean come to my place.. I just said " ok I see. Lost in translation I guess. Happy New Year."
Then he replied " You really don't seem interested in seeing me again"..
My response " Im not sure what would make you think that but it would be cool to see each other and catch up sometime" He replied " Ok"

Sounds like a lot of game playing to me... Using words like " sad" as opposed to "disappointed".. Trying to make me think he didnt mean coming over to my place... etc
One thing though is considering I have been aloof and rather cold and that we have never slept together over the period we were dating I can't see him thinking that we would have sex now since I never did and we haven't seen each other in so long..

Would you cut him off completely?.. Answer intermittently..
I have tried to go on other dates but quite frankly its very difficult to find dates and even more finding someone with whom there is a spark. I just wanted to leave him a small window of opportunity in case he wanted to step up and court me again..

Any advice/ comments would be greatly appreciated.
Its weird for someone to constantly initiate and keep in touch (especially since we have never slept together) and act so inconsistently.. Like what's he getting out of this?...
Thanks
Michelle

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Michelle,
"Would you cut him off completely?"

If this kept up, without him ever asking for and planning a real date to get together - then yea, I would. I wouldn't waste my time going around in circles. It's not hard to ask for a date. It's actually much more difficult to attempt to be manipulative about it as he's doing now. Asking for a date is simple. All he's doing here is complicating things, sending mixed messages, dancing around in circles and hitting a brick wall.

"Any advice/ comments would be greatly appreciated"

Next time he does this or anything similar "wanted to know if he could pass to see me. . .he replied " You really don't seem interested in seeing me again" - refuse that situation as you've previously done, but take it one step further by responding with something along the lines of "I'd like to see you, but we haven't seen each other in a while and I feel like we need to start fresh. If you'd like to plan a date and talk over dinner or something like that, then I'd be more than happy to see you."

Refuse the original offer - and then suggest something that you WILL agree to instead.

And seeing as how this all even began to take place was on Christmas Eve - read this piece here on the site so you can keep it all in perspective:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/12/christmas-holiday-hookup-dating.html

That piece talks about what this man is doing - he's a "holiday tapper." And there are other women commenting there about having received the same types of holiday taps from disappearing men that have suddenly reappeared - right around the holidays.

If he truly wants your attention here and since he's disappeared once already - he now needs to PROVE to you that he's genuinely interested and not just seeking a holiday fling that he'll again disappear from by January 30th.

@hoplessromantic said...

Hello Everyone and MOA,

Mirror, I just wanted to stop by and update you all w/ my DM.

Back in November I had written you that my DM had to go back to Israel for work and would be returning back mid December for good.
Well, after I had written you and read your response, I received two phone calls from him that week. He was telling me how much he missed me and that he couldn't wait to see me. I was actually surprised he even called. So, to give him the benefit of my doubts, I believed him. After that week, I didn't hear from him again for 4 weeks!! TYPICAL! He did, however, text me the day he got back from Israel. It read "hey woman, how are you doing? I just back to the US." Me, being the overly nice person that I am replied "welcome back. I bet you're jet lagged." I didn't get a response from him until the next day around 8pm. MOA, I'm such a forgiving person that I even texted him on Christmas wishing him a happy holiday. No response. His actions definitely did not match up with his words. I'm mad at myself for believing any of his words. But, with time, I'll get over it. It's just very frustrating w/ this guy. I know now that he's the one w/ issues.

I'm getting back to school this week and in this new year, I'm definitely focusing more on myself and my future.

I've pretty much moved on from this DM. He's not good for me. If this is the way he treats people, then he is no good for any type of relationship. Period.

Thank you so much for making this article. I can definitely relate to every single person who has written about their DM. I also like reading your responses b/c it all just seems to make more sense when someone other than ourselves is giving advice.

xoxo,
Sheryl

Anonymous said...

Thanks a lot for your prompt response MOA :)))
Michelle

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror and everyone,

Happy New Year to you all! :-)

(1 of 2)
I’m here today to give you an update and add to the numerous stories that have been shared here which attest to the fact that the majority of D.M. do infact emerge out of the woodwork eventually - particularly during the holiday season.

My last post was in the Disappearing/Reappearing Man thread (Anon Oct 27th @10:58 and Oct 30th @4:48, 2014 – Writing from Jamaica), when I was feeling emotional because I had not heard from my bf of 7 years for a whole month. He sent me a belated birthday text the day after my b-day, which I briefly responded to (in late September), after which all communication ended. Nothing from him for 3 months…and nothing from me. Our previous communication (via text) was in July - so if he had not sent me the birthday text - it would have been 5 months of nothing. No breakup, no NOTHING. Just crickets.

When I posted here last year in October, I felt the need to say something to him; to tell him that I thought that our relationship meant more to him- that *I* meant more to him- than for him to do nothing about the fact that I fell off the face of the earth. Do you remember my post Mirror? Thankfully, you talked me out of it :-)

You were correct when you said that when we explain ourselves to a man, we're letting him off the hook by relieving him of any guilt or regret that may still be heading his way, had we just remained silent enough. Swooping in prior to that, messes up the process necessary for them to actually think about and process their own feelings. Well apparently my silence started to weigh on him because on Christmas day, he called me 3 times (his number is no longer in my contacts, but I recognized it). I did not answer.

I also noticed a missed call from an unsaved number on the 26th, and 3 missed calls from another unsaved number on the 27th. My phone was not on me when these other calls came through. No voice messages were left, so the calls after Christmas day could have been anybody...but it might have also been him, who knows. I didn't notice until days after, but the 3 missed calls on the 27th were made in a very similar fashion to when he called. He called 2 times in a row, then again 4 hours later. Although the time of day that the calls were made was different, the unsaved number also called twice, one call after the other...and then roughly 4 hours later. Coincidence perhaps?

He also sent me 3 whatsapp messages on Christmas day (which I still have not opened yet, more than a week later). As you ladies may already know, the new ‘blue double tick’ feature enables users to see when their messages have been read, so he KNOWS they have been delivered, but I have not viewed them. However, without opening the chat, I am able to see only one of the 3 messages he sent. He said 'What have I done'.

Anonymous said...

contd. (2 of 2)

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but this is not a request to talk, right Mirror? It appears to me to be a question to attempt to trigger guilt and make me start explaining myself and 'do, do, doing'. A year ago, yes I perhaps would have said something to him. I would have called him back. Heck, I would have been the one questioning him. Perhaps he thinks I'm still that person, but I am not (though I still have a lot of work to do).

What do you make of this Mirror? At first I felt slightly upset when I read it. Why? He has been gone for months. Yes I went NC on him without warning, but what did he do? Nothing. Now he appeared on Christmas day- tapped me – and all of a sudden wants to know what he has done? After a week has passed and I see that no more attempts have been made by him (no New Years text either), I'm realizing that he has disappeared again and probably expects me to chase. I suppose he still has not looked within himself and thought about the part that he played in me going NC.

I don't think he ever thought I would stay away this long. Perhaps he thought I would always put up with him 'going with the flow' instead of making firm plans for dates/quality time, perhaps he thought I would put up with crumb communication and him dismissing me expressing my feelings about our relationship as an argument....or perhaps he really thought that I would stay with him even after he denied cheating on me when I asked if he had – I said this in my previous post, but I found this out (via his email) in 2013. I found inappropriate photos. Yes I went into his email without him knowing, and that was wrong....but I had a gut feeling –and I followed it.

So for him to appear after 3 months and ask me what has he done - I think he does know - but for whatever reason, he wants me to explain. I'm not going to. He HAS to do his part and try a little bit harder instead of 3 calls and 3 messages. This is not solid proof to me that he genuinely serious about knowing or wants to make things right.

Any thoughts Mirror?

Hugs to everyone! :)
-Writing from Jamaica

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA,

PART 1
I have been reading your blog for the past few months and I have become so enlightened. I feel like I was so naive before and really didn't understand the differences between how men and women think. I always believed what we think must be what they feel too. I now realise I was completely wrong thanks to you! However luckily I have never been needy or acted as a "man"- I never initiate contact, can ignore men for days if necessary and am so stubborn I don't care if I never hear from them again if they choose to walk away- maybe it's my gemini sign! Nevertheless I am in a confusing situation with two guys. I would appreciate your insight into these and your advice.

Guy A
I met Guy A 11 months ago through work. He started texting me and we have gradually become really close. It started off with a mutual physical attraction but has grown to an emotional bond. We have basically become best friends and we have an emotional connection but physical attraction too which is obviously promising. He always asks for my opinion on everything and we speak pretty much every day. It was a very flirty friendship but with comments from both sides of seeing what will happen eventually and how it looks like it is leading to a relationship. He would always say things like introducing me to his family, taking me to his hometown, on holiday etc. We only saw each other a few times during this period as he left the job but we remained really close by phone. I treated the meetings as a friendship but he considered them as dates and got offended that I didn't. I have a feeling he is quite insecure- he has said numerous times I am amazing and he thinks I have lots of other guys (but I don't). He said it is his insecurities talking but that I am the only girl for him.

Fast forward to about 9 months later, at this point we have feelings for each other but I no longer want to just text. I am getting annoyed that he is happy to go months without seeing me and is obviously got friends with benefits with someone or something along those lines as he is not feeling the need to take this further. I tell him it's weird and he said he is really sorry and he will take me our for dinner. I waited for him to mention it again and he doesn't. I therefore found your site and decided to follow the no contact rule until he asks me out. He sent me numerous random texts which I ignored completely. Finally after some time like you said he must have worked it out, and then he asked me to go for dinner with him at this really nice restaurant. I agreed. We had the most amazing date ever, so much chemistry and we kissed all night. I must specify there was no sex or anything sexual - he has never tried that angle with me and really respects me. In fact he has always treated me like a gentleman and has never been nasty or inappropriate. He told me I am different to all other girls a one off. Also I never text him first, I am really confident and not needy and also don't chase him.

Anonymous said...

PART 2
The next morning he texts me asking if I had a nice time and that he wants to see me for a second date the following Saturday. I was a bit upset that he didn't want to see me the coming Saturday but I think this is overreaction as you have said before that every other week at the beginning of dating is fine and it is better if they pace out the relationship. Sometimes I don't hear from him for a few days after very intense constant communication and i start to question but you said this normal too and is good to have space for a few days. I agreed to the date however unfortunately I had to cancel. He was very upset and felt like it meant I didn't like him. So he distanced himself. I apologised numerous times and said we should reschedule. He said after christmas. Here's where it went a bit off. At Christmas he kept texting me throughout saying he wants to kiss me again etc. I said well reschedule the date I am waiting (perhaps I made the pursuer move here and shouldn't have). He said ok well I will let you know about this week but I don't think I can as I have work but next weekend will be fine. I said fine let me know I might not be able to meet next weekend but let me know anyway if you can. He hasn't mentioned it. He texted me happy new year and we had a little conversation which I stopped responding to as I don't want to be too available anymore. He hasn't contacted me since so 3 days.

The weekend will be this one that is upcoming so I am not sure what to do now with this situation. Every time I have pulled back and ignored him he keeps coming at me and then he realises what he needs to do and asks me on another date. But I am not sure if he will do that again because he is insecure and needs constant reassurance - by me cancelling he thinks I have other guys around which is a good thing but I don't know if this will actually result in him deciding to just forget about me and go with a girl who is chasing him. Whereas I have always been the cool girl and been aloof.

We have an emotional bond as we were friends first and so I also think this isn't that easy to just forget about but then my insecurities kick in and I think "what if he just decided Im too much hard work and goes with the girl who is always responsive to him". What do you think I should do here? Like I said I am happy to ignore and I will never contact him first. Shall I just do the same as before and ignore his responses until he mentions a new date or is that too harsh as we are not exclusive and should I just be aloof and distant instead in my responses? I genuinely think he is a good guy but is very slow into getting into relationship territory.

Anonymous said...

PART 3
Guy B
I met Guy B abroad on holiday in August 2013. It was a random encounter but he was my dream man. He has everything I ever wanted- good looks, intelligence, success etc. He is a doctor and is just so my type in every way. I also am his type. I am also good looking, intelligent etc so we really were a match. We had an intense connection from the get go and spent all evening together. No sex or kissing. I thought it was just a holiday romance thing but I couldn't forget the connection we had. However, after he left he kept texting me and we remained in contact for another 4 months. He lives an 1.5h way by plane so it is feasible. As an emergency doctor he works 18 hours a day so it wasn't easy but he kept contacting me. He said I am his dream girl and he wants to be with me. He said he will try to book certain dates off to see me. I was excited. However back then I didn't know the rules and was very persistent (I changed my whole outlook with Guy A after reading your articles). I kept asking him when will he come, I miss him etc. He felt pressurised and the distancing began. Eventually I stopped hearing from him. I texted him once a month later asking if everything was ok. He was cold and said yes but he can't come and see me he is too busy with work. I therefore felt it was over as we had too many obstacles so I left it. I never forgot about him though.

A year later I am on holiday in the same place and guess who walks right past me - him with his new girlfriend. I couldn't believe it- the odds of us being in the same place again at the same time was crazy especially as this was a part of the resort that was in the middle of nowhere and we had never been to. I texted him that night just to say how crazy it was but I saw him. He responded saying thats insane and he hopes i have a good time. i didn't respond to this as he has a girlfriend now and I didn't want to continue things.

Again I felt this was the universe giving me closure. Although I still didn't feel like it was over deep down. So fast forward to New year's day and I get a text from him saying happy new year. I didn't jump on it and ignored it for a few hours. He proceeds to send me a silly cheesy happy new year photo. I responded just saying thanks happy new year to you. He then starts a convo to ask me how I am etc and that his sister has bought a house in my city for holidays and he would love to see me again for a coffee in the next month or so when he comes by. I said that would be lovely and to let me know. Since then he has texted me more questions etc. He took one day to respond to me so I am mirroring him and will respond on Monday. However what are your thoughts on how I should proceed with this? Shall I keep mirroring him and being aloof? I really like him but I am not sure what his intentions are. He knows I am not easy or a good time girl so I don't think it is for that and he can easily get that from someone else…

Thank you so much in advance for reading through my essay! I appreciate your wisdom and any advice you have for me. You have made me grow so much as a person in the last year and I will forever be grateful for this.

Grateful from Europe

Anonymous said...

Happy New Year Ms Mirror and @ Ladies wishing you all the very best for 2015!

Over the festive period and the lead up, I've been reading a lot of your responses to others Ms Mirror and it never ceases to amaze me how incredibly insightful you are.... I often find that indirectly my understanding is enriched just by reading your responses to others and lately there's been numerous things that I've found enlightening that I've been able to apply to my situation.

I'm not sure which thread they come from but I'd like to ask your opinion on a few things that I've read recently that are relevant and apply to my situation.

I'm in the post era of my DM now and things have changed for me in terms of being in the process of moving on and knowing that things can never be the same again or revert to any patterns that have previously occurred between me and the DM.

The main issue I wanted to discuss is about control and how in your recent post you say something along the lines that (forgive me these are not your direct quotes but my understanding of them) fear of losing control and the need of being in control are rooted in INSECURITY. I see how these patterns have been playing out from my DM over time - in things like him attempting to trigger my insecurities with strategies such as disappearing, ignoring and then manipulating in reappearing times. Controlling the communication by being in control when and for how long and controlling this by frequent disappearances over time. Reappearing and disappearing as a strategy employed to try and get me to give chase. All these types of behaviours designed to either upset, unbalance, weaken me or all of them with the agenda of trying to get me to give chase. Oh yeah and to reassure himself so he feels I'm still there, he is a catch, ultimately reassuring himself that he is in control. Posting subliminal messages on twitter, ringing my phone anonymously and hanging up or if I don't pick up not leaving a message but silence on the voicemail all with the agenda of trying to get me thinking about him so I give chase. The latest is taking his online profile down he's not been active on it for some time but I'm not fooled and into thinking he has met someone and is loved up LOL like he wants to trigger my insecurites and get me thinking about him so I give chase and trigger my fear that he may have moved on and met someone else LOL. I think it's pathetic I know he will have spent Christmas alone in terms of having someone close but I wouldn't be surprised if he's been tapping others, I don't think that I'm the only one whose been at the receiving end of his predatory behaviour.

...but something tells me that his luck is running out, his options are drying up, the girls who have given chase well he's turned off by them anyway. I feel that he is alone is his pathetic self-defeating behaviour and need for control.

CONT

Anonymous said...

CONT

My part in all of this I have grown and learnt to stand my ground, not settle for less, value myself. Where I did have trouble however was in the reappearances I would let him back in. Anyhow it came to a head for me and I guess I just couldn't stand it anymore and I wanted a beginning or an end and so I issued an ultimatum. The wanting a beginning was as equally strong as wanting an end to the charade of him coming back into my life but offering me very little. Ultimately I can't stand the feeling of being controlled and manipulated and I felt the ultimatum was the only way that I personally could put an end to it and close the door in 2014.

In doing so I forfeited the probability that I would have seen him as I have before over Christmas but I feel that it would have been tarred with the essence of holiday hook up from his side. I have never had relations with this guy and so I saw it as a blessing in disguise that my forfeit protecting me from any potential temptation and from being foolish in giving this guy anything of myself in the false illusion that he might be willing to invest, when I know otherwise...

and so now we're in 2015, I'm a little concerned that he's still on my mind and I guess that's one of the reasons why I'm writing. I suppose although he has not contacted me yet there is an underlying feeling that he may disregard my ultimatum and reappear again. Also, from the behaviours I listed above there are signs that I may not have heard the last from him.

So this need for control that is rooted in the need for reassurance, why is when they get that negative need of reassurance fulfilled, for example, when the girl allows him back in after a disappearance, then why do they not give up the need for control? It seems to me from my experience with him it just continues in a vicious cycle.

I know it is not my problem but I just wondered what you thought about the guy is fast approaching 40 (although men can continue behaving badly into their 50's etc) then what will cause him to give up this self-defeating behaviour?? I guess while there is always a supply of potential women who will permit his behaviour to continue he can just move on to the next willing victim...

...But as you say these guys don't even realise half the time that they don't want a woman to chase them them and who they can walk all over because even though they don't fully realise it they're are then unattracted to the women and then they shoot themselves in the foot.

I do get this vibe though that this guy in running out of time and not happy and his current way of trying to get what he wants in not serving him well. Although I have no hard evidence I have reason to believe that he has been hurt in the past and this is ultimately steering the wheel in his interactions with other women and this manifests in the need to be in control. However this vicious cycle is self-defeating not serving him well but it is up to him to come to that realisation and only he can do that but if he has a lack of awareness about his emotions that many men do then how on earth does that happen?

Anonymous said...

CONT...

I see this pattern as very stuck and that's why I have tried to remove myself from the situation instigated by issuing the ultimatum and so I have taken the consquences of the ultimatum not working in my favour and that is good for me because I am not willing to carry on in this stuck pattern with him and I want to be free to be with someone who is willing and able to give me what I deserve. and over time it's not looking like he is going to do this...

The only problem is now I'm left with an underlying feeling that he is on the verge of starting this nonsense behaviour up again, it's started already with the online profile coming down, next it'll be the anonymous phone calls... They're not a nuisance but I feel that there's an underlying feeling that I feel a bit controlled and although I've taken steps to remove myself I feel frustrated that he may attempt to gain some control again and it just makes me think for god sake either leave me alone or decide you want to be with me because I'm not playing anymore.

What do you think Ms Mirror of my overall situation and his ridiculous behaviour, surely it can't go on??

Thank you!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Writing from Jamaica,
"Now, correct me if I'm wrong but this is not a request to talk, right Mirror?"

No, I don't see it that way, I see it in the way you do "a question to attempt to trigger guilt and make me start explaining myself and 'do, do, doing'." He's attempting to shift the focus off of himself here by behaving as if he's done nothing wrong and doesn't need to explain himself - insinuating that it's you who needs to explain instead.

"Any thoughts Mirror?"

I agree with your assessment of the situation. This is a ploy, don't fall for it. When a boyfriend of 7 years falls off the face of the earth for a solid month - he knows what he's done. When he is caught red-handed with inappropriate photos of other women (or himself) on his phone - he knows exactly what he's done.

He's attempting to play "clueless" here so as to minimize what HE has done, and instead focus on what YOU are doing right now. Instead of seeing it as anyone with a brain would see it - HIS ACTIONS causes YOUR REACTIONS.

And there's absolutely no mystery in that whatsoever - he knows full well what's happened here.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Grateful from Europe,
"Finally after some time like you said he must have worked it out, and then he asked me to go for dinner with him at this really nice restaurant."

Hehe ;-)

"I am not sure if he will do that again because he is insecure and needs constant reassurance"

I think you need to think about whether or not you really want to date a "needy" guy like this. Insecure men do not make for good boyfriends, lovers or husbands. They need LOTS of attention, lots of reassurance, and they will cheat if need be to fulfill those needs and then blame the cheating on their insecurities, as if that justifies it. You will constantly need to provide reassurance - and after a year or so, that will become very draining, and dating him most likely would result in an "on again, off again" relationship with him feeling insecure, disappearing, you reassuring, him coming back - and then the entire cycle repeats itself over and over again. . .so just think about that, ya' know?

"what if he just decided I'm too much hard work and goes with the girl who is always responsive to him"

What if YOU decide that HE is too much hard work, and just go with the guy who is more available to you and confident in himself LOL ;-)

"should I just be aloof and distant instead in my responses"

If it were me, I would keep a fair distance here and not invest too much into this because you have already invested a lot and it's not going anywhere. You've got a nice friendship out of it, but maybe that's all that it's supposed to be, ya' know? If he wanted more, he'd be compelled to take action and amp up his efforts and he's not doing that. Actions speak louder than words. Ignore his words, and listen to what his actions are telling you instead.

"I genuinely think he is a good guy but is very slow into getting into relationship territory"

Has he even come out and said that he WANTS a relationship right now? Because it could be that he doesn't and he's not ready, which is kinda' what his actions are also saying as well.

"However what are your thoughts on how I should proceed with this? Shall I keep mirroring him and being aloof?"

I would - because it appears that doing that is drawing him TOWARDS you, whereas when you took the exact opposite approach the first time it actually sent him AWAY, ya' know?

"I am not sure what his intentions are"

You'll have to continue observing his behavior over an extended period of time and focusing on his actions, not his words, to get a clearer picture. If he says he'll come to see you and then he doesn't do that - red flag - words and actions are lining up. If he says he'll come to see you and then he takes action, makes plans and shows up - green light - words and actions line up ;-)


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 4, 10:26 AM,
"why is when they get that negative need of reassurance fulfilled, for example, when the girl allows him back in after a disappearance, then why do they not give up the need for control?"

Because the cause (insecurity) still exists, and the fulfillment is only a temporary relief from it. Insecure men, I've said this a million times here I'm quite sure LOL, do not make for good boyfriends, lovers and husbands. Their "neediness" for hefty reassurances and lots of attention are draining, and the stunts they pull to get those needs fulfilled never ends. They will exhaust you, and chances are eventually they'll cheat too, because their needs are so very hefty that one woman is never enough to fulfill them and "validate" them as men.

"what will cause him to give up this self-defeating behaviour?"

He needs to become self-aware, he needs to become aware of how his own behavior sabotages his efforts, and then he needs to work on himself to find ways to manage his insecurities (instead of acting out on them), and build confidence in himself instead.

"how on earth does that happen?"

Sometimes it doesn't happen - ever - at all. If someone is not willing to look at themselves and the part they play in the patterns that repeat themselves in their life - they'll never work out their issues. Acknowledging that you have a problem is always the first step. If you never acknowledge that, if you never take that first step, then you drive yourself insane by repeating the same thing over and over and over again. . .yet you expect different results. You can't save people from themselves. As humans, we all have to be willing to help ourselves, and that always requires a very uncomfortable look in the mirror at yourself.

"surely it can't go on?"

It can go on forever if YOU let it. Meaning, if you respond, if you react, etc. And even if you don't, that doesn't mean he won't continue to surface from time to time as the years roll on. If you truly want it to stop and he does become a nuisance, then you'll need to block his number or change yours eventually.

Anonymous said...

Hello MOA,

A general question that I haven't seen specifically addressed here... I'm approaching 30 and haven't had that active of a dating life.. I would say overall 10 mostly short term dating relationships.. Some of the guys that I "dropped" or that have "dropped" me eventually reappeared.. Maybe half, the other half vanished for good.. But all of those who reappeared never reappeared for a consistent amount of time or with what would have seemed like decent intentions.. Meaning, its always been mostly a lame effort at hangouts or even just texting intermittently, trying to feel me out for a few weeks with not actual decent date plan or what seemed to be like a genuine desire to give this a real try. So my question is, have you ever experienced a more substantial reappearing act.. a guy that reappeared after, 2 weeks, a month, 3 months.. however long it may have been that seemed to have a genuine desire to start fresh and pursue you after you may have thought initially his interest had genuinely faded? i haven't seen anything like that in the comments I have read or from your own experiences and I wonder if all relationships with guys who's interest seem to fade for a substantial period of time are doomed, for the precise reason they vanished or were less present is because their level of interest was never high enough to begin with. I guess my question would be more directed at short term dating relationships considering I have often seem couples break up and get back together down the road.. What I have yet to witness though is a relationship formed after a reappearance occurs during the earlier stages of dating where people were never in a committed relationship to begin with

Thanks for your feedback! I'm quite intrigued about that one
Michelle

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,

First of all, I want to wish you a wonderful new year full of blessings!! And the other ladies (and men ;)) on this site too.

The DM called me and wished me a happy new year.
Pretty soon he started talking about sex again and asked if I think if we'll EVER have sex again! I didn't respond to that question because I've elaborated on it too many times already. As long as he doesn't change his behavior, no way I'm going to have sex with him.

He asked: "What can I do so that you will have sex with me again??"
I hate that question! I think he should 'do' (you know what I mean) things for me because he likes me for 'me' and I don't think he should do things because he wants to persuade me to have sex?????? To me, that's not genuinely doing nice things from the heart... what do you think?

For example, I could tell him (I'm not going to ): "If you text me three times a day and call me once a day, and see me 2 times a week, THEN I'll have sex with you". How stupid is that?!

I just don't know what to say to his question of 'will we ever be sexually intimate again'!! I miss him and I love him, but I cannot have sex with him as long as I feel like I'm nothing more than a body to him! He always tells me that he loves me (gets mad when I say it feels like I'm a booty call) but like I said earlier, his actions don't match his words.

Oh and he also said on the phone that words are just words (he must have remembered me saying that a while ago) , that emails are just emails , and that he wants to SHOW me that he loves me. Guess how he wants to show me... Probably by having sex, or at least by kissing me intimately. And if I let him kiss me, he'll disappear again once he realizes that I won't let him use my body.

What do I tell him, Mirror, if he asks me again if we'll ever have sex again? he can be so persistent with that question..... :( . I wish I could just stop hoping that he might change one day... :'(

Hugs,
Mary

Anonymous said...

(2) (Mary)
I can't edit but I wanted to add that before this phone call of the DM, he tried contacting me several times by email and voicemail (I didn't pick up the phone) and said he wants to have a talk ;/

Grateful from Europe said...

Part 1

Dear Mirror,

Thank you for reading through my story and giving me your insight. It helps to write out my thoughts here as I am really hurt by this - although we never did become exclusive I got attached to him as we girls do- probably more of the fantasy of what it could be as opposed to him (he lacks quite a few things I thought were deal breakers for me but funny how the fantasy thinking overlooks all of that eventually). It wasn't easy to read but you are right. I knew this deep down but I lied to myself the whole time thinking or rather hoping it was leading to a relationship and making excuses for him like he is slow to get into a relationship when in fact if that is what he wanted he would have made it happen months ago.

No, he didn't specifically say he wants a relationship (I overlooked this based upon my 'slow' assumption- seems like I overlooked a lot of things silly me) just things like I am the only girl he sees himself with, talking about the future with me in it, not wanting me to be with anyone else, him contacting me all day, being affectionate and cute etc so I assumed this especially after our great date. He is obviously not ready. All his friends are so much younger than him and they still like to party every weekend although as a man of 31 he should be over this by now. He even told me he is sick of short term relationships which never last according to him and 'crazy' girls (like you said HE obv made them crazy because of his behaviour probably sleeping with them and then not seeing them for weeks) and how he is glad he met me as I am so different and special so it's so confusing. I don't get it. If this is the connection he was looking for and he is sick of short term rubbish then why is he not excited for this and moving it forward?

Also what confuses me is after ignoring him for days if he was half interested then why did he get all fearful about losing me and take the initiative to go on a date with me and then subsequently plan a second one? I have been different from most girls - never chasing him (I haven't even texted him once first in nearly a year) ignoring him when needs be and making out I don't care if he is in my life if he doesn't want to be, all good things but on the other hand I also played it wrong- for the first 6 months I have always been available to him responding to his messages within seconds and talking to him all day and night. Maybe this is why I only got proper treatment and a date from him when I did the opposite and perhaps I should have done this from the beginning.

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