"Mirror, Mirror on the wall . . . where did he go, and why doesn't he call?"

Why You Should Not Accept Sofa Dates





There's a new trend in dating ladies, and I like to call it the sofa date. You heard me right, the sofa date - and you've most likely been on one.

This seems to be the new trend and apparently, men are finding it quite useful. It works like this. Take a woman on a nice traditional first date, and then invite her over to your place for a second date, to hang out on your exciting sofa. And I don't really have to explain what comes next.

Times are tough, and money doesn't grow on trees, I get that. However, what ever happened to the days when men actually concerned themselves with impressing a woman and treating her special, like a lady? Coming up with $10 for ice cream or an appetizer somewhere isn't that difficult. It doesn't have to be diamonds and furs or a $100 meal, it simply needs to be a respectable date. A walk in the park is free - but access to someone's body should not be.

Women risk an awful lot when entering into a sexual affair with a man. They risk:

  • Their health (exposure to STD's that can harm a woman for life, that men carry and never show symptoms of and don't even know they have).
  • They risk their mental and emotional well-being.
  • They risk their future - literally - via the risk of pregnancy.



If a man is signaling to you that you should risk those things free of charge for him (not monetarily but through effort and earning), then get the hell away from him because he's signaling that he feels entitled...to receive something for nothing, free of charge with no investment (emotionally or otherwise).

He's signaling that you should be willing to take a bunch of serious risks for him, while he does absolutely nothing to prove himself worthy of you taking that risk.

Do you think grandpa landed grandma by impressing her with his sofa? Doubtful. Do you think your father impressed your mother by showing her his sofa? Doubtful.

The things that impress a woman, while many men erroneously believe are associated with money, in reality are more conceptual things like:

  • Leadership (taking charge).
  • Proving themselves (proving they're willing to be a good provider should any potential offspring result from the union).
  • Evoking positive emotional feelings (special treatment).

Do you think a sofa date accomplishes any of those things? The answer is no, it does not.

Instead, a sofa date signals the opposite to a woman, particularly a woman that's got her head on straight (isn't insecure, desperate or willing to settle). A sofa date signals:

  • Lack of leadership (laziness).
  • An unwillingness to prove himself a gentleman (lack of care).
  • Negative emotional feelings (anxiety, stress and worry over impending sexual advances that are surely on the way).

You're not fooling anyone guys when you ask for a sofa date. The sofa date is the lazy man's way to fast track sex for yourself and everyone knows it, so let's just call a spade a spade here and save ourselves from beating around the bush (pun intended).

If you're invited out for a sofa date early on in the relationship ladies, you should not accept it. And here's why.

Why You Shouldn't Accept Sofa Dates


Before I begin, let me clarify something. If you've been dating for months AND you BOTH agree that you're in a committed relationship, then the sofa date becomes acceptable. However, if you've dated a man once or twice, or for a few weeks or months, and there's NO committed relationship in place - stay off that sofa gals.

As I've already stated above, invitations for sofa dates early on prior to entering into a committed relationship signal things you should be taking note of and I've spelled those things out to you above: 1) lack of leadership (laziness) 2) an unwillingness for the man to prove himself (lack of care) and 3) negative emotional feelings (anxiety and stress over impending sexual advances you know are on the way).

You may be thinking, "Yea, but so what?" and if you're in that frame of mind and view this type of date as harmless, you're not paying attention, you're not looking out for yourself properly, and you're about to walk into a world of hurt. You're about to be used, you're about to let your value in the man's eyes plummet and you're about to willingly walk straight into "hookup" territory - from that day forward.

If you're seeking a serious relationship ladies, the sofa date should be a giant red flag to you. It should signal to you a man that's not relationship material. A man that isn't ready (to actually prove himself a man) a man that isn't going to lift a finger for you (lazy) and a man that's simply seeking gratification for his sexual needs (selfishness).

Is That Your Idea of Prince Charming?


I doubt it. And what kind of relationship do you think you're going to actually have with a man that's signaling these negative things that early on?

You're going to have a casual relationship that exists of hooking up from time to time occasionally (at his convenience), doing nothing but sexing around on his sofa. You're not going to receive regular phone calls, you're going to receive hookup texts. You're not going to be treated special (great date nights), you're going to be used. You're not going to be dating a real man, you're going to be dating an immature man-boy that's going to frustrate you beyond belief. And you're not going to find this relationship enjoyable in the long run. You're going to end up feeling bad about yourself. You're going to end up feeling very used - and you're going to become incredibly insecure.

Why?

Because you're going to eventually end up realizing that this man isn't treating you special or making you happy and fulfilling your needs. You're going to eventually realize that it's all about him and his needs, and it's all at his convenience. And once you enter into that mindset, your going to begin to experience increased anxiety and worry about what's going on and where the relationship is headed - and that will begin to manifest itself in your behavior.

You're Going to Start Acting Out


You're going to start acting out on that anxiety and worry by beginning to question where things are going. You're going to start scheming to try to get the guy to man up. You're going to start asking for regular phone calls, which he won't be willing to provide you, and you're going to begin thinking you're a couple and your his girlfriend, while he's referring to you as a friend and saying things to you like, "Let's just see where this goes" without ever committing to you.

You're going to be left in limbo gals. You're going to be left hanging in a very negative emotional state. And then that man is going to turn the tables on you once you start acting out on those anxieties that HE has created within you (by treating you poorly and using you), he's going to label you with the "crazy" card and then your goose is cooked. Because next he'll immediately begin to pull back, distance himself and eventually - disappear on you.

If you want a relationship ladies, then don't date men that want hookups. If you have one goal and he has an entirely different one, accept that you'll probably never meet in the middle and save yourself the grief.

Do Not Fool Yourself Into Thinking a Hookup Can Manifest Into a Relationship: Take The Right Path


Because that very rarely happens. They are two entirely different things and each requires an entirely different path of procedures to reach the destination. I like to use air travel as an example. Imagine it like this gals. Say you want to travel to India. Would you take a flight to Alaska to get there? Do you think that a flight to Alaska (hookup) will land you in India (relationship)? No, it won't. If you take the flight to Alaska (hookup) then that's where you land - in hookup territory. If you want to go to India (relationship), then you take the flight to India because it's going to land there.

Can you take the flight to Alaska (hookup) and still get to India (relationship)? Maybe - but it will cost you dearly. It will require a ton of expense and a convoluted path of ups and downs, on again, off again, flights. Will you be happy after exhausting yourself to such an extent in an attempt to get to India (relationship) after erroneously boarding the flight to Alaska (hookup). Probably not. You'll land in India (relationship) feeling depleted. It won't be the big revealing moment when you step off the plane and take the experience in with a sense of awe and wonder. Instead, you'll land there and seek the nearest refuge for rest - and then you'll wonder why the hell you just put yourself through this. You'll wonder why you're not as happy as you thought you'd be. Your big moment of arrival that you've been anticipating for months - will fall flat. And you'll ask yourself, "Is this it? Is this what I've been exhausting myself for for months?"

Why?

Because once you land in India (relationship), you're quickly going to realize that it wasn't all that you'd glorified it to be in your head before arriving there. The food may make you ill (negative fulfillment), the people may not be friendly (non-caring) and there's really nothing special for you there (not impressive). (For those of you reading this that love India, please realize this is only an example and I'm in no way suggesting that a visit to India is a bad thing). And you may be so damn exhausted from the trip and trying to reach India (relationship), that once you're there, you just want to go home (leave).

Sofa Date Conclusion




In the end ladies, it is what it is. A sofa date is a hookup situation and it signals that that particular man is seeking to take the easy way out to satisfy his own selfish physical needs. It signals that he's a man that isn't willing to lift a finger for you, isn't worried about impressing you and really doesn't want a relationship in the first place.

And if a man starts off like that, do you honestly think that he'll somehow miraculously change mid-way through?

No, he won't. If he's getting the milk for free, he's never going to feel compelled to buy the cow. And he will forever, from that day forward, expect his milk for free - and the mere insinuation by you that he should now somehow start investing in the milk he's receiving for free, is going to be met with pure resistance.

Men who prefer sofa dates are never going to lift a finger for you. They're never going to treat you special and they'll always attempt to use you, free of charge, to satisfy their own needs. They will view you as an object that exists for free use. And if you attempt to make them view you as a person with real emotions, they will only turn that against you.

Sofa date men will label you "needy" once you start demanding more and once you start acting out on those demands (calling, texting, questioning). They'll then slap another label on you, the "crazy" label - and then they'll bolt. Leaving you behind, feeling very depleted and used.

And that ladies - is why you do NOT accept sofa dates prior to commitment.

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87 Comments:

Anonymous said...

I don't know what happened to the comment I was just typing. Something happened and it disappeared. Anyway, thank you for writing about this, Mirror! I was going to ask you to write a book on this very subject so you beat me to it! I'm one of the many women on here that have been asked on these so-called "sofa dates." What I wanted to say was that sofa date requests unfortunately happen even when the guy hasn't taken you out on a first date and even when they KNOW you are not comfortable with the idea of you going over to his place or him coming over to your place. Men can be very persistent about this! It's almost like an epidemic and a proper date is just TOO MUCH WORK for men these days. It's kind of depressing... I was beginning to think that maybe it had something to do with me. Why don't these men want to take me out on legitimate dates? It's always hanging-out or wanna come over or can I come over? (I never gave in to these requests so unfortunately never really got to know the men either.) But reading other women's experiences about being asked to come over so early in the relationship, makes me feel a little better. But just being asked for a "sofa date" affects your self-esteem to a certain degree because it is really irritating and makes you wonder what, am I not even worth a real date? I wish men would just step up and be men instead of making us deal with all this nonsense. I've had enough of their lazy, unmanly ways.

Thank you for writing about this subject, Mirror. And now we women know exactly how to handle them sofa dates in the future.

Anonymous said...

Another great blog MOA. I recently started dating again and I've ran across 4 dudes and each of them invited me on, in your words "the sofa date." I'm like dang do guys take females on real dates anymore because seems like all they know is going to someone's house. Why have guys gotten so lazy when it comes to dating, seems like they just want to skip the dating stage and just go straight to sex, and they wonder why it doesn't work out.

Sagittarius23

Anonymous said...

Thank you for posting this Mirror. I could kick myself for the things I've put up with in my twenties. The last guy I was seeing moved me right into the sofa zone after the third date. He ended up becoming a DM. I followed your advice in filtering him when he reappeared and ended up "enacting my power" and kicking him to the curb. It only took one time of him not following through after the re-appearance and I decided I wasn't going to go down that road again. It's been 3 months of no contact. Thank you so much for the time and effort you put into this blog. I read and re-read all the comments when I'm having a bad day. I never knew I had so much strength. I am just entering my thirties and with all this knowledge, I know I will find the right guy one day :)

WomenPower said...

Dear Mirror of Aphrodite,

Thanks for this great article: you're a fantastic observer in order to describe and make us understand this kind of a dating behavior. I can confirm to your research that the same sofa dating phenomenon is running in Europe as well.

Keep on the great work!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
Thanks gals, I'm glad you're finding this helpful and also finding out that it's not YOU - it's them - and that "settling" for less than you deserve doesn't lead to happiness. So don't settle for these lame dates gals, refuse them and keep moving forward.

Anonymous April 6th said this:

"I never knew I had so much strength"

Everyone woman has strength dear - but many just need the support to wield it - there IS power in numbers and the support you each offer one another here on this site does more than you know. You all get to see that it isn't YOU - it's happening everywhere and quality men these days are the minority unfortunately.

But alas, good men ARE still out there ladies.

And regarding your comment about your strength, not sure if you watch a popular show here, The Walking Dead. But there's a character on that show, her name is Carol. When she first appeared, she was a mother that was under the thumb of a nasty husband who abused her.

Long story short, her husband was killed and her daughter as well, so she found herself on her own in the group she was trying to survive apocalyptic times with. And guess what? She's now the STRONGEST one in the group now that she's out from under her nasty husbands thumb, alone, and with the support of the group. Carol has protected that group more than once the hard way, doing what others did not have the courage to do, simply to survive. She has even eliminated those that she cared for that put the group at great risk - to survive. Her character has now become my favorite character on that show.

And it just goes to show you that when the going gets rough - you get tough - to keep going. Your survival depends on it. You cannot overlook the 98% of "bad" in someone and simply focus on the 2% of "good" that remains. If you do that, you will NOT survive.

When someone attempts to start a relationship with you that consists of using you and expecting things from you for free while giving and investing nothing of themselves first, emotionally or otherwise - you get the hell away from them. Pull a "Carol" - and wipe them out (of your life), LOL ;-)

You gals all have a little bit of "Carol" in you, more than you know. It just takes a certain set of circumstances and some support to realize that :-)

Gemini50 said...

Absolutey, 100%, accurate -- all of it!

Anonymous said...

Great blog MOA. I noticed when you explained what a sofa date was you said "Take a woman on a nice traditional first date, and then invite her over to your place for a second date, to hang out on your exciting sofa." Shoot the guys I've ran across they just jump right into the sofa date on the first "date", like seriously? Have women gotten that desperate for a man that they accept these bogus invitations to the house? I even had one that wanted me to pick him up just to bring him back to my house just so we can "chill." That just blew my mind, he immediately got put on my call block list after he suggested that. This kind of phenomenon makes it a lot harder for girls like me to find a respectable man since sex got so much easier to get and love got that much harder to find. I'm still young so I have plenty of time to find that right one, but geesh I feel like giving up some times. I don't want to end up alone, but at the same time I refuse to settle.

Anonymous said...

Great Advice! My question is what is a girl to do, when she has already made this mistake, and ended up with a sofa "relationship"? How does one walk away, and resist the temptation of keeping into contact with this guy? In my situation, even though being in this situation has caused a lot of pain and frustration, I do feel like I get something out of it (validation, fun, excitement), and it has been hard for me to end things. I think even thought these situations are casual, and that is known by both partners, its hard not to catch feelings, and begin to feel something for the guy which also makes it hard.

My other question is, what advice would you give girls who are feeling used/upset/and pretty much like crap after being in this situation, how would you advice them to bounce back?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous April 11, 12:48AM,
"How does one walk away, and resist the temptation of keeping into contact with this guy?"

You just walk away dear - no one can tell you how to do that or do it for you - if you want change, the change starts with you. That's just the way it is ya' know?

And you have to ask yourself, "Is a bit of fun and excitement worth my self-esteem and respect?" Because there's a price to pay for that. Shallow gratifications like fun and excitement can be found anywhere and in many forms....but deeper gratifications such as self-esteem and respect...you can't just pick that up anywhere - and once it slips away, it's terribly hard to get back.

"what advice would you give girls who are feeling used/upset/and pretty much like crap after being in this situation, how would you advice them to bounce back?"

There is no magic answer dear and the harsh truth is - you just have to walk through the pain and rely on your coping skills to pull you through it in a healthy manner. It's another one of the consequences and prices to pay for participation in this situation unfortunately.

Every woman deserves to be treated special, every person on earth IS special. When a relationship starts out as nothing special, then that's what it becomes - nothing special. When there's no special treatment, when the man isn't challenged to bring out the feminine in the woman through that type of treatment (such as traditional dating that includes dinners, movies, and activities together) - that sets the tone for the entire relationship and it ends up being nothing special unfortunately.

Additionally, studies have shown that performing "activities" together bonds people. It gives them memories of "experiencing" something (special) with the individual. And when people have special experiences with others, the "experience" itself has emotions attached to it and the individuals tend to become fond of each other through those experiences and emotions they're sharing together. And that's when folks get sentimental at times about the time spent with one another. Like, "remember the time we..." or "remember that time we went here and this happened..." - they've shared "special" moments together.

But when you're doing nothing but hanging out on one another's sofas and sexing around...it's not the same type of connection. It's only a "physical" connection - it's not an "emotional" one. Men can have sex without emotion. So you cannot assume that by sexing around with a man, he's experiencing emotions. You have to tap into a man's emotions differently than you tap into a woman's.

And to bounce back from an experience like that, you have to just keep moving forward. There's no magic fix. You have to cope your way through it and release any pent up emotions in healthy ways such as physical activities or hobbies, or spending time with friends, or doing things you love, or shopping for new clothes and improving yourself in some manner to increase your confidence...whatever makes you happy, that's what you do. And then you make a pact with yourself to never settle for that type of treatment again. You make a pact with yourself that you deserve the best, you deserve to be treated special. And if you only date men who fulfill that need for you...you don't feel used and crappy regardless of whether it works out or not. Because people can only treat you as poorly as you let them. If you don't let them, then you don't suffer a repeat :-)

Anonymous said...

Ms. Mirror, What a great answer you gave to @Anonymous April 11, 12:48AM, this especially touched me and makes so much sense:

"Every woman deserves to be treated special, every person on earth IS special. When a relationship starts out as nothing special, then that's what it becomes - nothing special. When there's no special treatment, when the man isn't challenged to bring out the feminine in the woman through that type of treatment (such as traditional dating that includes dinners, movies, and activities together) - that sets the tone for the entire relationship and it ends up being nothing special unfortunately."

You really, truly have a gift for writing and expressing your ideas. Thank you for always sharing your sincere thoughts and perspective with us women. You help us more than you know.

@WomenPower, you mentioned that the same sofa dating phenomenon is running in Europe. Please elaborate on this because I went out on a dinner date with this German guy (in Germany) and though he gave me a very vague non-answer as to whether I should pay for my half when I asked him could I help with the bill (which was a mistake I know, but this was before I knew about Ms. Mirror), I ended up making him pay for the dinner by replying "thank you, well next time you come to XXX, it'll be my turn" to which his immediate response thereafter was, "Do you have enough money for the cab fare?" We were going to a bar afterwards and since it would be late by the time we left,he said we'd have to take a cab home. I was quite literally in shock when I heard him say this, and after I'd picked-up my jaw from the floor (because I knew he meant that we'd be sharing the cab but I would be stuck with the whole fare making this in essence a going "dutch" deal) I replied that I only had my credit card because I didn't have a chance to get to the bank to exchange my money in time. His reply was then we'll have to get a credit card cab. Hmm. Not good, I thought. I was just a visitor in a foreign country (the first time I'd ever been to Germany) but he was still treating me like a buddy and not treating me special. We get to the bar, he acts all affectionate, I wasn't feeling it anymore, and especially wasn't feeling it when I finally said I'd like to go home, would you please call the cab and he then asked me what type of credit card I have because the cab company wants to know. Well, he might have well just said: "and please sign right here by the X 'mam!" All of my romantic feelings for him went down the drain at that moment. He knew something was bothering me when I responded coldly to his lovey-dovey faces, and he asked, "Are you o.k.?" Well, long story short, the cab came, he had the cab drop himself off at the his apartment first and then had the cab drop me off at his family's place where I was staying and stuck me with the entire cab fare which was probably more than the dinner he paid for!

Also, what's your take, Ms. Mirror, on men that stop by ATMs at the beginning of the date to withdraw cash (as in this German guy) shouldn't they come prepared? I know Germans operate on cash unlike Americans who rely on credit cards, but still, I couldn't help feeling annoyed by that and for some reason it didn't help me feel special, and I was a little disappointed by that :(

At least he didn't pull a sofa date on me but it was just as disappointing... I thought European guys had the romantic thing down. I guess not anymore?

Anonymous said...

Hey @Anonymous April 11, 12:48AM,

I'm the girl from above that didn't know my own strength. Mirror is absolutely right. You have to walk through the pain. It's been three months and sometimes I think of this guy and miss the attention/affection, but those days are few and far between now. The thoughts don't last as long.

What I would like to share with you is this: I was in the same boat about not having the strength to walk away. And this is what my thought process was....I would much rather walk away from the situation, than to have him walk away on me and be in the relationship I want with another woman. This has happened to me before, and it is heart breaking. Do it now, girlfriend.

How I did it went like this....guy flaked on me, this wasn't the first time, but it was the first time after he reappeared. I said to myself, "I will not go down this road again", stood up for myself to him in a non-confrontational, non-emotional way, and simply vanished. He didn't come after me either. So he was seeking sex. I'm much much happier now and I dealt with this guy for a year.

I wish you the best and I know you can find your strength, because you deserve much better.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 12, 5:29 PM,
Well dear, bottom line...this guy really didn't go out of his way to impress you so he should not have been taken back when, near the end of the date, you weren't impressed and it showed. When you put forth little effort and you get back little return, there's no reason to be shocked by that or to ask someone what's wrong.

What's wrong is this guy made you feel like crap by displaying time and again his unwillingness to treat you special that night or to go out of his way for you. When a man makes you feel as if you're not even worth a meal and a cab ride home...then you don't take another call or answer another text from him ever again - unless you want to let him make you feel like crap about yourself again, ya' know?

Place him in your past and move on dear - this guy is nothing special :-(

You didn't enjoy a first date with him and chances are, he'd only get worse (with his expectations of you) and leave you unhappy on a second date as well so don't bother.

WomenPower said...

Hello ladies,
@Anonymous Apr 12, 5:29 PM, German guy

There are two types of men: quality man (gentleman) and then "others" who are so brilliantly analysed by Mirror on this website. Women must pay attention not to chase a man because when she does it, even a quality man will run away.
If you didn't chase the man, what I think it's your case, unfortunately then, you met not a real gentleman. Or we can summerize it in two categories: interested man and half/not really relation motivated man. The second type of man is the abundant creator of typical kind of dating: very cheap "dutch treat" first date, absence of dating, sofa date, disappearing act, bullshit-flowery talk, no action, flake communication...

I know quite well German mentality and absolutely agree with MOA's answer to you. The German guy you met, it seems that he isn't really interested in relationship with you; he's the kind of man you will find the description and symptoms on this website. It is not about if he is a German, French, Swedish or U.S. man. Don't give him the benefice of the doubt because of his German nationality. This is a serious red flag what he did during your first date.
You are lucky that you have found so early this website and you can choose better for you! A nice German gentleman who will be happy to spend the lunch, dinner and time with you and will offer it to you with a big smile, as an investment to common future. Don't waste your time with a cheap man who will treat you as an exotic sex buddy (coming soon) and who is asking you questions about your credit card on the first date! That cab/credit card episode you have describe is really ridiculous. Shame on him! Don't accept it.

I wish you a wonderful stay in Europe and don't forget: there are nice and generous gentlemen here, it's up to you to pick up the right one. Don't waste your time with the garbage and be the lady at any occasion.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, I've loved and read your beautiful wise writing for a long time. But what if you're someone who spends years and years without meeting anyone you want who wants you back? In that case, sofa dating may be infinitely preferable to more of nothing.

I'm a Sagittarius sun with a Scorpio moon and feel every day that passes without affection and sex is a day wasted and a day lost. Enjoying the pleasure in the heat of the moment by having sex quickly, to me, has always seemed to be well worth any pain that follows it. If the guy walks because the sexual chase has been cut short and his interest dries up, let him walk. Yes, it hurts, I'm hardwired as a woman to bond through sex, but I get over it.

I could be wrong but I tend to think women who can delay having sex are just more appealing to a wider variety of men and don't chronically go months and years alone, living second to second with an unsatisfied libido at a boiling point. I've never attracted partners easily and I don't believe you can always make your own luck in this arena. Starving people generally don't take two bites off their plate then put the plate away to finish later.

Love and long-term stability just aren't part of everyone's future no matter their dating habits. Having that viewpoint isn't necessarily self-limiting or indicative of low self-worth; it may simply be accurate. If that's the case, delaying what few opportunities do come along to have sex has always struck me as pointless. The Janis Joplin song "Get It While You Can" was/is no joke.

I don't believe that "women like me" are ruining it for those who want to be courted and have relationships. I think people are mostly just trying to find a reason to feel half alive.

Just another perspective on the situation.

Anonymous said...

Sometimes sex is the ultimate act of both pleasure and despair. But it's usually still better than not doing it.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 16, 12:37 PM,
"But what if you're someone who spends years and years without meeting anyone you want who wants you back? In that case, sofa dating may be infinitely preferable to more of nothing."

Well, I guess that depends on whether or not the indivdual's priority is satisfying their ego - versus nurturing their soul. Meaning, it's the ego that places a high priority on shallow pleasures such as sex. Your soul however, finding peace of mind, contentment and happiness in life, requires much, much more than that.

When you live to satisfy your ego, most times, you find yourself chasing happiness your entire life - seeking it from sources OUTSIDE of yourself - versus nourishing your soul and finding happiness INSIDE of yourself (not needing it from outside sources).

I am happy, I have peace of mind and I am content with my life and myself. As a result, I do not place a high priority on sexual gratification because there are many other things in my life that provide fulfillment for me. My happiness eminates from WITHIN me and it does not come from external sources. And because of that, I would MUCH rather be alone and happy long term - rather than settle for poor treatment and let another use me - simply to satisfy my ego in the short term form of instant gratification.

So I guess it depends on which one is more important to the individual - ego fulfillment (short term) or soul nourishment (long term).

". . .feel every day that passes without affection and sex is a day wasted and a day lost"

I might say that of love - but not sex.

There are so many pleasures in life and forms of affection to derive pleasure from. Placing such a high priority on receiving that through sex means that the individual will most likely need others to provide their happiness for them (in the form of sex) - forever. And if that's the case, peace of mind and contentment may prove elusive for the individual - for a lifetime - if it's always derived from outside sources and through physical pleasures only.

"Enjoying the pleasure in the heat of the moment by having sex quickly, to me, has always seemed to be well worth any pain that follows it."

So you would put yourself through pain and permit others to abusively use you...simply to derive sexual pleasure? That's a very troubling statement dear :-(

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

". . .don't chronically go months and years alone, living second to second with an unsatisfied libido at a boiling point."

I've gone months and years alone at different times in my life and I can tell you, my libido is the farthest thing from my mind. Why? Because as I matured I realized that there are dozens of other areas of my life that provide pleasure and stimulation for me. Sex represents only about 10% of my existence - one tenth - there's another 90% of my life that exists.

And when 90% of my life is fulfilling....I barely notice the 10% that isn't.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a sexual creature as is any woman. However, cheap thrills are not fulfilling for me, rather, they leave me feeling empty (as if I need to "fill up" afterwards because something has been taken that is now missing). They do not provide fulfillment for me and when they leave you empty - you chase the thrill even more. Because constantly feeling empty leaves you constantly reaching for more to fill you up. That type of instant gratification loop is always only passing and fleeting in nature and quickly vanishes...leaving folks caught in the endless cycle of constantly chasing the thrill and using others like objects to provide it.

"delaying what few opportunities do come along to have sex has always struck me as pointless"

That's probably because you're placing a very high value on sex - because you believe it to be scarce in nature (few opportunities).

But the reality is that as a woman dear - there are NEVER "few" opportunities for sex, LOL.

As a woman, opportunities for sex abound - they are everywhere, every single day. There is no shortage of sexual opportunities for women. Sexual opportunities for women are not "few." There are, and ALWAYS WILL BE, plenty of men around that want sex, LOL. I don't ever view sex as "scarce" and because of that, I don't place a high value on it....because it's EVERYWHERE. I can get it whenever I want it - and so can you. It's available to me (and any woman) in abundance. So I feel no real need to jump on it (literally) when the opportunity presents itself.

Imagine this. Imagining walking into a bar on a Friday night, and standing there making a general announcement to the room, "Hey guys, I'm a lonely lady tonight - who would like to keep me company?" Snap your fingers and at least 3-5 men would line up and follow you out the door - if not a half dozen or more, LOL.

Men have to work at sexual opportunities but women...we got it EASY girl, LOL ;-)

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

And this holds true for a lifetime dear. I know several women in their 60's that still, to this day, have men in their lives that approach them for sex regularly, LOL. They may experience a shortage of quality men for potential long term relationships - but a shortage of men for sex - never, LOL. The guy at the gas station will sex you up if you offer, the guy at the grocery store will oblige, some of your male friends would probably offer to assist, your male neighbors would be willing to service you...I mean truly...there is NEVER a shortage of sex for women.

A shortage of quality men for long term relationships - yes. A shortage of men for shallow sexual experiences - never, LOL.

"I think people are mostly just trying to find a reason to feel half alive."

If people feel that sex is the only reason to live or the only thing that makes them feel alive....then they're not truly "living" dear.

"Sometimes sex is the ultimate act of both pleasure and despair."

It's not meant to be used as therapy though - people's bodies aren't meant to be used as coping mechanisms.

If someone derives their pleasure and then enacts on their despair during sex - they're using sex as a coping mechanism instead of really coping with the real problem (things that are missing in their life which leave them feeling "empty" and then requires them to "fill up" using sex and another human being to derive fulfillment from.) If that's the case, chances are they're acting out their issues through sex instead of coping with their real problems in a healthy manner.

"But it's usually still better than not doing it."

Sex isn't the end-all, be-all in life. It should only represent a small portion of your life - your life should be balanced out from fulfillment in other areas as well.

If one places too much emphasis on deriving fulfillment from sexual pleasure, then chances are the rest of their life is out of balance (i.e. not providing fulfillment).

Anonymous said...

I am a Libra, married over 20 years to a regional "semi celeb" but going through a long drawn out divorce....I've done a lot of my inner work over this year and few months and have slowly emerged to date. I've been out of the game a long time and because I married so young, I wasn't IN the game too long either :) The 1st guy I talked to is a Sag. He is truly the disappear/reappear guy. You were SO spot on in that analysis it was scary. I am now talking to a guy who was an acquaintance of an old boy friend in college. He is also a Sag. Now, over 25 years later, he and I have gotten re-aquainted. He is divorced and not dating anyone. We have talked quite a bit on the phone and text. We went to a coffee shop once because I felt it was an ok spot since people meet up there w/o dating all the time so it wouldn't be misconstrued (if that was the day my ex had his p.i. on my trail- or anyone else). I am not comfortable going out "dating" but I really do like him and was tired of feeling put on the shelf by my ex's threats so I accepted an invite to this guy's apartment....I went on the couch date. Three times this month. He has been kind. He has often expressed how much he liked me in school but I ended up with his buddy and that he kept up with me through mutual friends too. He works A LOT, as do I, so our time is very limited. On one of his days off, he asked me to take off so he could pamper ME! What he had planned sounded wonderful but I couldn't because of meetings at work- I have my rain check! He is truly a beautiful man. He tried sex...the attraction is sky high....but I am not ready and he's ok with that. After reading this, I think we have a really good vibe but I don't need to continue along these lines. Continuing to go to his home is probably not in my long term best interest. Will hinting that I am ready to go somewhere else (out of town) or planning a day out and taking him be too out of line? I would greatly appreciate any suggestions for dating "on the low" without dooming this budding friendship due to my situation and the couch dating.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 23, 9:30 AM,
"Will hinting that I am ready to go somewhere else (out of town) or planning a day out and taking him be too out of line?"

I wouldn't be the one planning the date and then taking him along (because that places you in the lead masculine position and that may backfire as most men prefer to at least "feel" like they're in the lead.)

I think what I would do is, the next time he invites you over, I'd respond with something like, "You know, I think I'm ready to step out with you, no more hiding at home. How about we go to dinner instead at [give him a spot in the next town over or wherever you feel is safe]."

See what his reaction is and if he's agreeable to that, you can then explain that while you're ready to step out with him, you still feel the need to protect the both of you from any possible repercussions the ex may deliver if you're spotted, hence dinner in the next town over :-)

Anonymous said...

I have to admit I thought this was kind of funny, a sofa date??? And sometimes I find mirror to be very strict. That is probably necessary because if you're here, like me, you likely need to be stricter yourself on your standards. As I read on, I see myself here. We didn't start out as a sofa date but quickly established a pattern of them. He treats me bad and then calls me needy etc, just as mirror is explaining. In fact, I am crazy and somehow all the women before me (and there are LOTS) are too. Um no, you lazy man, are the common denominator. Still ladies, we have to not let men do this. The second we speak up for a need or state that we are uncomfortable about something, he has an opportunity to demonstrate concern for our feelings. If he does not and is consistent in that neglectful behavior, then yes if you stay with him it will make you frustrated, etc. Mirror is right on with this. Thank you MOA.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 23, 4:40 PM,
"sometimes I find mirror to be very strict"

LOL, yes dear - I am. But that wasn't always the case - I learned the hard way. Years and years of people acting upon you and against you will eventually have you realizing that you either continue to be a nice people pleaser and end up victimized and taken advantage of for it....or you make adjustments for survival and you become a no non-sense, zero tolerance individual that demands the respect of others and doesn't get acted upon by them.

And the latter of the two is so very liberating LOL ;-)

I saw a commercial the other day for Woodford Bourbon. Now, many of these are becoming very controversial online, however, this one resonated with me because in the commercial, the man is describing a woman of strength - who lends him no assistance, LOL. The ad reads:

"When I see a woman drinking bourbon, I expect she's the kind of woman that knows how to pick a horse. Not because she likes the name or the color of the horse...she'll simply know when she's in the presence of a winner.

She'll notice my uncertainty when I make my selection - but will offer no advice. And I'll simply know...I'm in the presence of a winner."

Women have a tendency to think that what men want is the uber nice Laura Ingalls types...but I can tell you, when they see the exact opposite - they're always struck by it in a positive way.

Too much, too nice, too accommodating, tries too hard, too agreeable, too caring, too expressive, too emotional - all that "do, do, do" that women have a tendency to think will cause others to love them for it...men are not impressed by that unfortunately. But pull back on them and don't lift a finger for them (don't be mean, just don't try so hard to "do" something for them) - and you've suddenly captivated them.

Very much like the man in the Woodford commercial considers the girl who offers him nothing - no advice - a winner, LOL ;-)

Here's the commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpHOsO7FXo4

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA, great article and it is so dead on it's actually scary lol. I came up here because I seem to be running into this problem a lot with guys. They say they want to see me and I ask them "ok what do you have in mind," they say something to the affect of "I'm down for whatever you want to do," placing the ball back in my court to tell them what exactly I want to do. I just feel weird telling a man that I would like to go to dinner or a movie because I feel like the guy should already know what to do as a man when first meeting a woman and the woman shouldn't have to tell him how to date her. What are your thoughts on this? Am I right for feeling this way?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous April 28, 12:21AM,
I agree dear, real men step up and take the lead. Sounds to me like these are probably immature boys you're meeting who don't understand the concept of leadership tied into masculinity.

Maybe the next time you're hit with "I'm down for whatever you want to do" respond with "Cool, cause I like to go to dinner and the movies. Figure out what you'd like to see and where you'd like to take me and lemme know, I'm looking forward to it." And dump that ball back into his court along with your likes and interests for him to make a final decision on.

But I get your disappointment. See, gentlemen (men who are wise in the ways of women) actually speak to the woman first and in so, ask questions about her where they learn her likes, dislikes and interests - and then they plan a date that they think would impress her from the information they've gathered. They take the lead, plan the date, and impress the girl. It's a very simple formula.

But these days, there are a lot of men putting more time and energy into gaming and manipulating women than there are that are using that very simple formula above for success. It's bizarre to me. Spend tons of time manipulating and scheming for one or two successes (sexual experiences) or spend a little bit of time using that formula above for long term success? Hmm, tough choice, LOL.

Amarushaya said...

Mirror of Aphrodite , Big BRAVO to you and my gracious bow to your wisdom!

Your comment on 16 april 2014 ...I am speechless, how someone like you puts ancient forgotten knowledge in modern language so crystal clear. Aphrodite - Goddess of Love - Venusian archetype in astrology is what makes Life worth living, is what makes us human. You, Mirror of Aphrodite have not forgotten like the most of humanity did that Life has values, which have never died, it's us human beings, which stopped being human. And we can not continue live our lives the way we do. Thank you for bringing LOVE back to us, for explaining in simple practical terms how to be gentle to ourselves.

"here are so many pleasures in life and forms of affection to derive pleasure from. Placing such a high priority on receiving that through sex means that the individual will most likely need others to provide their happiness for them (in the form of sex) - forever. And if that's the case, peace of mind and contentment may prove elusive for the individual - for a lifetime - if it's always derived from outside sources and through physical pleasures only." - WOW! That's what is ALL about. The mastering of alchemy of Life. Can not compliment you enough.

Please, wright the book. People do need it. Bright woman, great analysis, sharp observations, amazing writing style, deep esoteric knowledge ...I have read many books, almost all of the world classic literature and more.You are very talented. Please, wright the book.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Amarushaya,
Thank you so very much, I'm glad you found value in those words.

I'm still tossing a book around, trying to come up with the time to do so is the biggest hurdle at this point :-)

Amarushaya said...

@ Mirror of Aphrodite
Yep, time is speeding up...It is the biggest hurdle ( funny the way you put it ) :) I wish you to succeed on your book!

B.t.w. You might know this good site, might not know. This astrological site describes the behavior of sign Mars and Venus in love, courtship and sex in funny, very respectful manner. I personally find those descriptions very correct. I think you might enjoy it. Important thing to know in navigation is to read the Mars sign first, then the description of combination of both Mars and Venus will appear. Here you go:

https://goodgollyastrology.com/your-mars-and-venus-playbook.html

Enjoy!

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror & WomenPower,

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with me - I'm Anonymous from April 12, 2014 at 5:29 PM who was trying to understand the German guy who wasn't a sofa date but just as bad... I was actually in Germany for my friend's wedding (his sister) and had already spent thousands of dollars to be there. After what I'd spent, including nice gifts for the family, etc., I thought it was kind of tacky of him to ask me to pay for the cab fare, which he had ridden too... and we're not talking about just a twenty dollar cab ride here!

HE was the one that invited me out. The first time he asked me out was the very same night I landed in Germany. I wasn't too crazy about going out that first night so I didn't respond very enthusiastically, and we ended-up not getting together that night. But the next night, we all met up at the 'biergarten' (which btw, was BEAUTIFUL! we should have those in the U.S.!!) and after my friend left to go prepare for her wedding the next day, her brother came up to me saying that he'd been looking for me and that his sister had already gone home while I was in the restroom. I was kind of disappointed that my friend had left so soon, and without telling me, and he said here, you can sit with me. So we ended up talking and having a good time. I got the sense that he was trying to steer things in a romantic direction, saying stuff like: oh that's so romantic! when I wasn't even saying anything remotely romantic, or talking about plans after the wedding, when I go visit his city. The first night, he said his mother had some plans to make dinner at home, but the second night he wants to have dinner with me and that he could even introduce me to a very well-educated and accomplished male friend of his. Intrigued, I said o.k. to dinner (that friend never showed up btw.) The day after the biergarten was my friend's wedding, and the brother was sort of touchy-feely and flirtateous with me.

I went on a short trip right after the wedding, and then made it to my friend's family's home. The brother didn't contact me about our "dinner plans" until the day of. I never called to confirm it either. I don't know if this is a German thing, but he set almost the entire thing up through his mother (this man is in his forties btw!) It was kind of funny to me, but I had three choices to pick from: have dinner with him and his parents at home, have dinner with him and his parents at a restaurant, or have dinner with him for which I would have to go meet him. I chose the last because that was originally what he had talked about and I was looking forward a little to meet his friend too, even though his mother suggested we all go out to dinner at a restaurant. Secretly, I also wanted to see if he could handle taking me out on a date all by himself without his mommy and daddy's help, lol! (He failed this test unfortunately :( even though I really wanted him to pass.) The mother was so sweet, she drove me halfway to the train station so that I could make it in time to meet her son downtown. The night started off strong (apart from the annoying ATM visit), and we enjoyed our dinner conversations, but by the end of it, he made me feel like he just wanted some company during dinner, and oh, btw, someone to pay for his cab ride home at 2 a.m.! Turned out that the trip to the bar afterwards was really a work function for him, and he ended up introducing me to many of his co-workers. Because I knew he was going to make me pay for the cab fare, I felt somewhat out of place the entire time and couldn't help wondering if he really, truly wanted me to be there or just wanted me to pay for his cab ride home. I basically was upset about the fact that he was treating me as nothing special yet he expected/wanted to do all the romantic date-like behaviors. (Note to the men on here: If you're really interested in a woman, DON'T DO THIS!!! She'll be confused and think you don't really like her and shut down!)

Anonymous said...

I feel partly responsible though for the way things happened because I DID ask if I could help with the dinner bill (I shoulda' just kept my damn mouth shut) and apparently, German women mean what they say, so he may just be used to that (no reading between the lines.) But I felt like he took it a step beyond that by bringing up the cab fare separately, all on his own, and it made me feel NOT special. I was pretty pissed after this because he was basically forcing me to pay since at that point, we had already decided to go to the bar. And if I'd backed-out of our plans after learning that I'd be paying for the cab fare, *I* would end up looking stingy even though HE was the one that asked me out initially. Maybe my other mistake was in deciding to meet up with him only and agreeing to all this the day of. It might have given him the upper hand:( In hindsight though, I could have probably come up with any number of excuses to get out of it, but I was hoping that somehow he'd change his mind and just take care of it at the end like a real man, which obviously didn't happen...:( Clearly, at the end of this 'date,' I was on the losing end of things: I was the one that had to go meet up with him, I had to pay for half the cost of the 'first date,' I didn't get to meet his 'accomplished' friend, just him. I bet there are some other things I forgot to list but that's already enough to see that I wasn't careful enough and skilled at navigating my way through this. I guess I trusted this guy too much, and he took advantage of my trust to work in his favor. But aren't guests supposed to trust their hosts? I dunno anymore... Anyways, after our trip to the bar, he took some pictures of me at various landmarks (which perhaps justified in his mind making me pay for the cab fare because he was supposedly giving me a "tour" I have no idea. I thought guests were usually treated to nice tours anyways but again, maybe my expectations were just waaaay too high. He said he'd send the photos to me, but he never did. I haven't asked for them either because I'm doing NC on him.

After this experience, I learned that there is no such thing as 'dating' in Germany, that people just 'hangout' in a group and gradually fall into relationships. Maybe they do a lot of sofa-dating in Europe also? but no 'dating' in the American sense of the word and couples often split the cost of a date. Is this true??? I didn't think I'd be 'dating' in Germany since I was there for only a short time. Had I known things were THAT different, I would have gone better prepared! I could TRY to understand a cultural difference, but somehow, even taking in the possible cultural differences, it just didn't feel right to me. I mean, he knew I was American right, and being in his forties, he had to have at least some sense as to how I expected to be treated. I've heard of German tightwads before, but he was somethin' else. And as an American gal, I just have a hard time understanding that this kind of treatment is the norm across the pond and is actually o.k. with German women.

WomenPower said...

Hello Ladies,

To Anonymous, May 8, 2014 at 12:24 German Guy experience

"After this experience, I learned that there is no such thing as 'dating' in Germany, that people just 'hangout' in a group and gradually fall into relationships."

Sorry to disappoint you but people are dating in Germany and men can be very romantic if they want a relationship with a woman. Unfortunately you met a man who was not interested in dating you. You didn't do any mistake, it's about him and his decision about you. Maybe the long distance relationship was not his cup of tea, however it didn't stop him to try if he could have some cheap "fun" with you.

Stay strong, positive and be proud that you didn't allow him to play with you.

Forget, if you can forgive him and make place for another man in your heart.


Anonymous said...

I'm afraid you're right, WomenPower. I knew Germans understood the concept of romance. I thought that was where the whole 'Sturm und Drang' and the idea of Romanticsm started. I think I wanted to believe what I wanted to believe, and it hurts to know that there IS actual dating going on Germany.

Anonymous said...

MOA- great article. A guy I went on a few dates with invited me to his place for the next time I see him. I said no. I said that's not my idea of getting to know someone so early on, and I'm not comfortable with that. I said I'm not interested in taking those steps before a longer time period and if he is looking for someone who is then that's ok but it's not going to be with me. You think I replied correctly here??

Anonymous said...

Wow. He asked me on a sofa date and this is exactly what happened.

pisces girl said...

God Bless you for this post Mirror as well as every other which is a reminder to us women to value ourselves and believe that we are worthy of more than what some "men" have to offer. Even the smartest ones of us who are successful in other areas of life have messed up when it comes to men and what we are willing to settle for.Why ?because we get desperate to be in a relationship and to make him want to be with us and guys arent stupid they can sniff out desperation from a mile away and you become good time girl not wifey and your self esteem and happiness suffers as a result. Keep you wonderful posts coming and thank you for empowering us women to take our control back and choose our destiny even if it means being single for a while and holding out for the right one to come along

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, what if they asked you to go the beach lol.... my date has asked me that and I'm not sure what to say. I would rather grab a bite or something. Please help me

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 6,4:08 AM,
Then you kindly suggest something else instead. You say something like, "I'd really love to see you, but the thing is, the beach really isn't my thing. How about we have a bite to each instead?"

If he's genuinely interested, he'll strive to make you happy. If he isn't, then he won't bother - and you'll know whether or not he's worth anymore of your time :-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks for that blog. I read it a little late, but it's okay because it helped me to see more clearly. My rubber-band guy came around and we proceeded into a sofa date because we had history. While I was smart enough to prevent sex, I still spent some of my heart that evening. I didn't talk about the things I needed to talk about (from the past) because I was just happy to be spending time with him. But because of that past, I went into the anxiety stage much more quickly than ever before and after two texts in which I let him know what I was thinking, he asked me to stop contacting him. What I basically told him was that it was easy for him to disregard me and that he never felt the need to apologize for his past behavior. I haven't contacted him since, but still feel a little sad about doing this because now I can't talk to him at all. I know I am right about what I wrote to him and I know I deserve better... I want a good relationship, but even though I am active/volunteer, I have found it difficult to find single men who are actually interested. I generally come back to blaming me for the situation between us (myself and rubber-band man and previous boyfriends). I don't know what to do. I want to be married and have children, but I am getting older and it seems like it may never happen. People make comments which they think are funny, but aren't... about my being single, not married and not having children yet. This is not where I thought I'd be. Otherwise things are okay, I mean, I have my health (yoga!!) and a solid family, and I live my life as best I can. Why does this big part of life (love/children) elude me? - Confused in Texas

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Confused in Texas
"I have found it difficult to find single men who are actually interested"

Could it be because you're settling for less than you deserve with the WRONG man, instead of standing alone, holding out long enough for the RIGHT man to come along?

"People make comments which they think are funny, but aren't... about my being single, not married and not having children yet"

Put soap into their mouths instantly by responding with, "I'm single by choice. I don't need a man and I won't settle for one that isn't right for me. I choose to be single until the right one comes along."

Project yourself as an independent woman making wise choices for herself - and not as a poor,helpless victim of love, ya' know?

"Why does this big part of life (love/children) elude me?"

Because you're placing too much importance on it and focusing on it too much. Let's face it, in reality, whether or not women marry or have children has no bearing on your survival - it's not life threatening, so why value it and treat it as such. If you don't marry, lightening isn't going to strike you dead. If you don't have children, a tree isn't going to fall on you tomorrow.

In the grand scheme of things dear, sure these things can add to your happiness in life - but so can a lot of other things...it's all on how you value them and look at them. So you don't marry and have kids...you know what you have instead that others with husbands and kids DON'T have?

You have restful nights, no one to answer to, no one demanding you feed them or make dinner after work, you can pick up and take off on vacation whenever you want, you get to date around and meet different people, you get to save money, you get Friday nights out with friends....trust me, there are lots of things you have now that you take for granted that you WON'T have when a husband and children enter the picture.

Don't place so much weight on marriage and kids right now. It's not helping you, it's stressing you out. And when you stress out and suffer from anxiety, self-destructive behavior enters the picture and you end up driving people away from you, instead of drawing them towards you.

If you relax, remove this unnecessary pressure from yourself and you are stress free and anxiety free - you will be happy. Others will enjoy your company and your carefree attitude - and they will be drawn to you :-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your response. I appreciate that you took the time to answer me. I'm going to think about what you said and focus on my positives. Yoga is something I recently began and plan to make a lifelong commitment to. I think it has really helped bring me focus and clarity, which may have been why I asserted my unhappiness so quickly in the situation I described earlier. Old me would have tolerated it for a good while... and yup, I really do enjoy the undisturbed sleeping (at least, when the dogs allow it to be undisturbed). - Thanks, slowly getting unconfused in Texas

wiseowl said...

Ahh yes the sofa date, often disguised as you are working so hard, let me cook you dinner, (and then move to the sofa) or, lets met at my place first and we will decide where to go and eat from there (from my sofa). I try to avoid sofa dates, especially if in the evening, however by about date 5 I do like to check out a mans home. This has led to me discovering one man I was dating was one of those hoarders, with rubbish and filth everywhere...I was so shocked and turned off completely as I know there are underlying psychological problems as to why ppl live like this. Visiting someones home tells you a lot about their personality...I like to see their books on the shelf, whats in their frig, get a feel for the place. It all gives you some more insight into who they are.

the man im dating now, has asked me to his place casually...would you come and see my garden and give me some advice? This was at date 2 and I said no...at date 3 he asked me for dinner sometime, to cook for me..I said no im not ready for that yet. Then at date 4 shall we drive past my place so you can see my house? And would you be able to tell lots about my personality if you saw my house? I said I already know lots about your personality...we both laughed. He said yeah i guess its too soon. I have already expressed to him I wont be jumping into bed with him at this stage, and he said he is fine with that...hmmmm? Im really keen to go to see his home, but how do I keep it off the sofa?
PS I cant keep him off me, he is constantly kissing me

purenkool said...

I am eternally grateful to you Mirror of Venus! Here I am an American in Europe who has sufferered unfair interactions through making bad decisions in dating worthless selfish nitwits. What a revelation to know that zillion other women suffer in the same way but that hope and help and sisterhood prevail. I am in awe of you Mirror! All the emotional pain we women experience brings immense self growth, then it's time for ACTION. We women are strong resilient fighters. We spring back to love another day but self love is our first goal. No man or man-boy is an end all be all priority. I feel so in tune with so many women who opened up here. Advice is invaluable. Apart from women who see married men. I feel your pain sisters. I cannot wait for the book! Thank you Mirror.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@WiseOwl,
"Im really keen to go to see his home, but how do I keep it off the sofa?"

How about suggesting a drink on the patio, porch or even just on a chair/bench in the yard somewhere once you get there (instead of settling into the living room).

If it's a nice evening out, that would be completely appropriate. Suggest opening a bottle of wine or mixing a drink and enjoying some conversation in the evening outdoors with a candle going or something.

purenkool said...

I was on a half cafe/half sofa date a few years ago. I had no idea there was such a thing til it happened to me. It spells a cheap insincere calculating guy who treats all women badly from the start.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,
Hope you’re doing well. There’s an interesting story I wanted to share with you and the rest of your readers. I joined Match.com and I met this guy and he seemed like a nice guy. We talked online for a bit then we exchanged numbers. Well it was all good until I asked what he was looking for and he said a “friend.” Like why are you on a dating site looking for a “friend?” That was red flag number 1 but I chose to ignore it and continue to talk to him.
He wanted to meet me and I said ok, I’m free on this day we can meet up for dinner and he said ok. The day came and gone, no call/text. Then he texts me a 2 days later inviting me to his house. Of course I declined. Then I suggest we actually go out and do something then he gives the usual “it’s whatever you want to do” then I said I prefer for the guy to make the plans the he suggest we meet in a Walmart parking lot. That was the most outrageous thing I heard so I was like hope you’re not serious. I didn’t hear from him for a week.
He texted me today asking what I was doing and wanted to get up. I told him it seems like you just want to “chill” and I’m not down with that. The truth hurt him so bad so his response to that was “Well damn what do you want me to do take you out or something? I haven’t even seen you yet” So to make sure he was making himself clear, I asked “So what you’re saying is that you have to see what I look like in person before you decide if you want to take me out.” And his response to that, you may have to hold onto your seat for this one, he said “it’s not even that you just make it seem like you just want a meal and that’s a turn-off to me. And to make it even worse you don’t even text me I’m always the one texting you like that’s crazy”
I was in absolute shock by that response. Are guys really this clueless on how to impress a woman? He didn’t care what I looked like when he invited me on a sofa date as you called it, now all of a sudden you have to meet me in person before you take me out? Yeah I smell BS!!! I mean I keep running into guys like this and it’s really getting old and tired. I don’t know how to go about making myself a repellant for these guys to stay away. It makes me wonder what is it that I’m doing wrong to keep having these dickheads approach me. What do you suggest MOA?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 23, 11:14 PM,
"Well damn what do you want me to do take you out or something?"

Of course that's what you want - that's what you're all on a dating site to do - date - go on dates - and when you go on dates, the guy actually takes you out - that's how it's done, that's how it's always been done.

This guy is an absolute dip shit. I'm sorry, but men like this have absolutely NO POINT being on a dating site. When will someone develop HookUp.com and simply save us all by separating the wheat from the chaff LOL.

"you just make it seem like you just want a meal and that’s a turn-off to me"

Yea, cause times are so tough you have to PAY to join Match.com - for a meal, LOL. I think it's safe to assume that if you can afford a subscription to Match, you can afford to buy your own damn meal. You're there to date, and that's what you're expecting to do. He's there to hookup - he doesn't get it. And even if times are tough, who the hell is going to pay join Match to get a dinner here and there LOL.

"I’m always the one texting you like that’s crazy”

LOL!! No - what's crazy is that men like this exist. He understands nothing of formal dating and the concept of male pursuit and courtship. He's an immature dip.

"It makes me wonder what is it that I’m doing wrong to keep having these dickheads approach me."

It's not you, it's just that these days...hooking up is confused with dating. Hooking up is NOT dating. If he's looking to hookup, he needs to stalk the bars - and NOT join a DATING site. The younger generations are skipping over the courtship process entirely, having multiple short 3-4 month dysfunctional sexual relationships, and they think that's dating. And because many women are settling for that piss poor treatment and not demanding proper, respectful treatment...many men are turning into lazy toads.

I bet if he asked his parents and grandparents how they met and what their first date was like...it didn't take place in a WalMart parking lot LOL.

"What do you suggest MOA?"

Well, I don't often say or suggest this, but when I encounter men like this, that are just blatently ignorant and completely unaware of their offensiveness...I let them have it verbally. I inform them that acting like that will never land them a good woman. I inform them that acting like that will only land them a string of endless brief, unsatisfying affairs - because of their lack of respect for women and the fact that the only women that would accept an insulting date like that...are insecure one's that don't feel good about themselves and are desperate for male attention. Because sadly, that's the honest to goodness truth. So...I hit them with the truth.

As for yourself, don't worry about changing anything dear. Be yourself, be confident, know your value, know your worth and simply pass crud-balls like this over - and have a good laugh while you're at it LOL. That dip shit could end up some poor kids father someday or some poor woman's husband...just be glad that will NEVER be you dear ;-)

Anonymous said...

@August 23, 2014 at 11:14 PM

Whoa, I'm sorry about what you went through. He's a jerk plain and simple. He's a LOSER is what he is. Don't give him any more of your time. He probably knows he's a loser too but just doesn't want to admit it to himself or others and prefers to "shift the blame" onto you for his "LOSER-NESS."

One question: how old is this guy? To me he sounds like a teenager or early twenties. I don't believe age has anything to do with whether one is capable of being a decent person (I know plenty of young people that are genuinely wonderful, caring people and plenty of older people that are crazy, selfish assholes), but I am just hoping that you will not tell me that this guy is mid or late twenties, 30s or beyond... Men should have their shit together by this time including dating skills!

I don't think you did anything wrong. You just ran into an idiot. I hope you will have better luck next time and not let this loser get you down.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror, hi ladies,
It's been a few days that I have been reading article after article here and all the comments underneath.
Same as many before me, I would like to thank you for opening my eyes in so many ways....also, again, same as many others have said before me, I wish I had stumbled upon your site years ago.
Looking back, I realise how I have pushed away a few good guys purely due to my own behaviour, whereas I have simply invited the lesser males into my life...for the same reason.
Right now I am hoping you will be reading this soon, as I could do with an impartial opinion, even though, in my heart, I know the answer, really...

So...I'm a Pisces female (Aquarius rising), early 40s, and I'm dealing with an Aries born 1st April (yes, that one...the difficult ones) and he is 4 years younger than me.
We met on a dating site which I initially landed on by sheer coincidence (a friend of mine looking for a new partner when she asked for a bit of assistance...ended up signing on helping her catching a few schmucks redhanded in the process of elimination which was huge fun too...we had a good laugh). Her search, after a few duds, did prove to bring a result and she is now married to the guy she met on there. The guy didn't seem to be the perfect choice, but the right choice for her. Their relationship has worked out the same.
Now, back to me....
cont...

Anonymous said...

Cont...
I found myself returning to the site on a bored evening, reading and giggling along. Little did I know that my 'movements' across the site would be noticed. One of the guys who reacted quickly (I never got in touch, but it was visible to him I looked at his profile) decided to contact me and it went from there...As we live in two different European countries and I was a little worried, if he knew where I lived, he'd be more interested in me because of it, I didn't say a thing. For a while. He kept trying to get me out for a coffee (the typical thing to do over in his country, which is my country of origin too). Then he offered to call me. So, I had to finally explain where I lived. He still said he would like to talk to me if I want to give him my number. We talked for a while, which was rather expensive for him, but he never complained and seemed very happy we had talked.
After that we started to talk on Skype regularly, every evening, first just typing, then talking via webcam. That went on from around late November 2010 until sometime in December when I let on I was coming to see my family for Christmas, although they live some 5 hours drive away from him. He thought that was great and that we could meet up. As it was more practical for me, it was easy to be persuaded to accept the invitation to visit him. Yeah....what a mistake that was...a sofa date...anyway, I was a bit naive in thinking we'd just sleep separately, but spend time together for New Year. I was planning on staying for a couple of days, then return. I stayed for a week. He pounced on my the first evening as I was settling in...I admit, I was so attracted to him that I wasn't willing to refuse him, even though this is not my style at all...after lots of sex he just said:"Ok, so we have established we are exceptionally compatible in sex...now we just need to figure out the rest.". I should have recognised the warning signs straight away when we didn't go out even for a coffee. I tried not to be too demanding. We did take his dog for a walk a few times together, but otherwise, he'd do so alone, while I'd catch up with my emails. Overall, the week with him was good and enjoyable, although with a few unpleasant moments...

Anonymous said...

cont.
There were some hot-cold situations from then on already, but I was blind to it, or decided to be.
After my 2nd visit to the country due to business, I went out of my way to go visit him, while initially, he promised he’d come join me in my rented apartment for the week. I went to try and sort it out or end it, but it all went back to us being together. ..
As I had to spend more time back there, but in the capital, not where he lived, he offered to pay for an apartment if I find something suitable. I pointed out that wasn’t necessary as I had a budget for 3 weeks paid by the organisation I was doing business for, but he insisted, as he knew that the 3 weeks weren’t sufficient for me to complete my negotiations. Adding to this, my work sounds very glamorous, but it is a lot of volunteering and I did warn him that I am not wealthy, in fact that my finances were in a fairly sorry state following a relationship break up where I had to buy out my ex and after a longterm illness, which had continued to affect me long after I had returned to work.
I spent 2 months at this apartment with him being around a few times for a few days. He made it very difficult to know if he’d even show up on the day I was due to move in, which he was supposed to provide the deposit for and 1st month’s rent. That was on my birthday…he changed his mind three times during the day…then finally did show. The following day, we went out and while I was in a meeting, he waited for me in a café and bought a laptop…for me…as a birthday gift…as he said, he knew I needed it for work, to make my life easier, as my little netbook couldn’t cope with it all.
I was grateful. But, this got the alarm bells ringing: it was too much too soon….apartment…laptop…after that we went for lunch at a restaurant which was very nice, but not quite as romantic as I’d liked perhaps.
cont...

Anonymous said...

cont...
I kept asking him to go out with me to take the dog out for a walk…he’d either walk her alone, or I’d walk her alone…never together. He was happy to go get food and stuff I needed, or even going together with me and let me pick stuff I needed, but mostly, it was an alone thing. When I finally persuaded him to come along so we could go for a coffee, after I quickly met up with someone who had to return to me some money, he suddenly felt sick and we had to go back as he, apparently, drunk a coffee that made him ill. No nice coffee…no nice time out together. Again. I need to add a very important point at this stage: he claimed to make his money via online sports betting, which I saw as well, on a few occasions. I was dubious and not happy about this, but he kept convincing me that he does his research and did show me results of his ‘work’ in the shape of winnings.
Little did I know at that point…
I'll fast forward, as this will take forever otherwise...
We are still together now…nearly 4 years, but this relationship had many ups and downs….a true rollercoaster ride. I am aware that I gave him the power from day 1 and he has used it.
I invested myself emotionally, physically, financially…
In the beginning, he was paying, taking care of stuff. He was looking for a little house to buy some place. He had the money to do that. Not a lot, but for a small place somewhere simple, it was enough.
I was battling financial issues, but never asked him for help. At the same time, I kept wanting to do good by him, because he has suffered in the past: lost both his parents, went through battles of war (the real stuff) and did suffer PTSD (I recognised some of the symptoms, but he never went to see a doctor about it, denying it), got financially semi-wiped out by his older half brother and half sister (confirmed story, but put in a slightly different light by him, compared to what I was told by his remaining family).
cont...

Anonymous said...

cont...
In the summer 2011, I spent time and money to be there and spend time near, but not with him in his place, to then end up spending most of the time at his place anyway. In the end, I did give him a small amount of money towards bills, as I felt I ought to. It was a turbulent time together and again, rare outings together, which he denied was an issue. I pointed out to him he was ashamed to go out with me , which he denied(he thinks I’m too fat, even though I had not changed since we met), but when I had enough at one point and decided to get all dressed up to go out without him, he very quickly jumped (after telling me he didn’t feel like going out anymore) and got ready, taking me to a café/restaurant owned by a friend of his, spending a nice evening out with a few people talking and having a few drinks. Still, turbulent times…breaking up, then making up…typical Aries…lots of drama. Still, we talked about him joining me in my country, he’d sell the car, organise himself and he could pay for a visa to work. Me thinking this was all ok, once it all falls into place, it should be ok.
Not so. Speaking to him on Skype, I find out he has no money. All was gone. Everything. He tried to blame it on everyone but himself.
I should have been running miles ages before, but of course, I was going to ‘rescue’ him…I could see he was a good person, but he behaved rough and inconsiderate because he was hurt in the past…I took every excuse in the book for him.
I found money to pay for his ticket and all to get him here. And I repeated that mistake again and again…He’d spend the winter with me, spending 90% of his waking hours on the computer (the same one he bought for me, my birthday present) either reading news, alternative news, or playing computer games. When I complained that we are living under the same roof (my roof, as it happens), but hardly see eachother, he’d ridicule it. We would watch a movie together cuddled up, or have sex, but nothing was lasting. The sex would become more infrequent to the point where we’d go for a few weeks without…Oh yes…foreplay is like, what’s that? Cuddling afterwards…what’s the point? When I’d comment on this he would dismiss me in some way or other, but always find a way to highlight how good he is to me.
cont...

Anonymous said...

cont...
A major issue happened when I found that he spends a lot of time viewing facebook profiles of girls. Some of them are his ex girlfriends. When I finally confronted him, he accused me of being a complete lunatic, controlling etc. I came across this by accident, while looking up something on search history. During arguments, he will easily be very nasty and hurtful, then expect me to be ok afterwards.
He’d use my faults to hurt me as well, then he’d threaten to kill himself. He does regularly push the situation where my ex once in a while shows up at the door (the same one I had spent 13 years with and bought out of the house, so I have a huge mortgage all on my own now) as we remained in contact and ok, as we tend to help out where needed (when we split up, he took over our two dogs, but I would share responsibility at weekends and so on. Such agreeable situation continued, although it is true that my ex does want me back, but there is a huge problem, while I was in trouble and very ill, I nearly lost my house, so he had helped me out and I owe him that money back). True, I have complicated my own situation.
He is also jealous of my best friend who helps me a great deal through times of hardship and difficult times…but there is a simple fact…if I wanted to be with this friend, I had plenty of opportunity as we have known eachother for 12 years.
Truth is, he has used all the tricks in the book: put me down with negativity, then lift…silent treatment, rejection, then reeling in again. I am so addicted to him that I find it difficult to tell him it’s over. But, the biggest reason I don’t send him packing is, aside from my feelings for him, I know he is homeless, nowhere to go. Each summer he’d go work for the season, but then, he’d waste the hard earned cash on online betting. I did catch him lying to me about it on several occasions, broke up with him, but would then cave in and take him back. Mind, he was breaking up with me each time we’d have an argument. When a girl was trying to dish herself up to him, he denied that was the case, after I found she asked him to meet up for a drink (reason: she lost her job, dog and b/f…and we all know what that is all about). I did confront him with messages and calls I saw on his phone, which I opened up in front of him.
cont...

Anonymous said...

cont...
He keeps telling me he has never cheated on me (I only know that to be true for sure when he was living with me during the winter), but y trust in him is weak. He and my mother don’t see eye to eye (she has been looking after his dog, which we were hoping to bring to my house once we had enough money, but that didn’t materialise with his not working each winter due to visa restrictions. She is causing problems with the dog regularly, using it to emotionally blackmail me (something my mum has done all my life…and I did let her…just as I finally managed to reduce contact and managed to get her into a normal situation that I could handle…we had the dog situation and I had to put up with it all over again).
Overall, not a pretty picture…I love him and he keeps telling me he loves me, calls regularly when we are not together, but then also behaves like a spoilt brat at times. He doesn’t do anything special or buy a gift for birthdays/anniversaries/Christmases…although he has given me the odd gift, it was never something romantic (the most romantic thing was a rose he brought back home to me as he picked it passing someone’s garden and drinking sparkling wine for new year – that first new year together – on the beach in his little town).
As we speak, my mother has refused to take him in for the time he is waiting for his passport to be ready (for a couple of weeks), but never told him that; instead, she called me to tell me to deal with it, even though only a few weeks ago, she received money from him for looking after the dog (but to help her with the car insurance, really, although it is true, most of the time it is me sending money for the dog…in the past, for over 15 years, I was taking care of my mum and my stepfather financially…let’s say, enough money to buy a very nice house on the coast there in total…this is the reason I am now rather penniless and struggling).
So yes…long, huge story….not even half told…but you get the idea…and yes…I kept taking care of everyone but myself and my own needs…bit of everyone’s doormat and, as soon as I try not to be, all hell breaks loose. My mother feels entitled to being in my life constantly, every day, to my help, to knowing where I am and what I’m doing, but I have managed to cut all that down, although I still get the kicking and screaming situations from her, every now and again. My Aries did have a huge argument with her…because of me and the way she treats me. This is why she hates him, although, this doesn’t automatically make him an angel. But, right now, he has nowhere to go now (he had a huge argument with his boss who, admittedly, is an idiot, so ended his job early by nearly a month).
I’m no angel either, but…what do I do? All this is interfering with my career…trying to set up my own business, to study for a masters degree…I have dreams I still want to achieve, as my childhood wasn’t pretty and I had fewer opportunities as a result, but all this is a bit too much…I could do with an impartial view...a bit of guidance in this mess….of my own creation to some degree…I'm afraid that, despite his horrid antics, I may push away someone who does really love me, and regret it afterwards, but mother and friends, even my cousin and his wife, all seem to be of the same opinion: he's not good for me. Even I can see it...but at times I feel he may really tell the truth that he is genuinely in love with me and never cheated...on the other hand, I fear...too many lies...what is the truth...
I'm sorry for such a huge story...but thank you ever so much...

Pisces (Aquarius rising)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Pisces,
"I’m no angel either, but…what do I do?"

Take control, cease giving in to a feeling of helplessness, and set boundaries - with everyone. Here's a video on setting boundaries with difficult people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rguG4wzZBA

"my own creation to some degree"

That's because there are no boundaries in place and also because you're more worried about pleasing others than you are about pleasing yourself. Set boundaries dear - and you'll be much happier...and you won't create a situation like this again once they're in place.

Set boundaries, ask that those around you respect them - and then hold them to it. If they do NOT respect your boundaries, then you have no choice but to enforce those boundaries yourself with them, as hard as that may be - and that means they will need to experience CONSEQUENCES for over-stepping those boundaries.

If you set the boundary that he needs to find a job in a month, and he doesn't, then he needs to leave. No excuses, case closed - that's the deal. Or, you tell him he needs to find a home in 30 days and leave. If he doesn't, then in writing, you evict him from your home. If he does not leave within that time, then you pull the authorities in and you force him to obey the law and leave. And you do the same with all others where you see fit.

I know it sounds harsh dear - but that's the way it is. There are consequences we all must suffer in life and he should be no exclusion to that. What's harder? Living with him, or forcing him to leave? Are you really willing to be miserable...so HE can be happy? I don't think that's what you were placed on this earth to do dear.

If you do that, if you set these boundaries and then YOU enforce them...you will find that once the difficult temporary period is over...in the long run, you'll be much happier. Because you'll finally be living your life for YOURSELF, and NOT for OTHERS :-)

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror, thank you...it is not the first time I hear this, but it is the first time from someone who does not know me and can view this situation impartially...of course,based on how I have explained it all...
Learning to live life for myself, not for others is a goal, setting those boundaries are the signposts to achieve it...

Now, I had already given him boundaries...but let them be broken. Promises to stop smoking (from day 1 he was 'trying to quit')...to stop online betting. Now, I did tell him we are done if he starts again and as I confronted him about it (I didn't know, but when I could not log in to have a look at his online betting account, for which I did get the password), I asked him for the password to it, and to the associated email address (this is ridiculous, I know, but I'm sure you can imagine why this had happened...I hate this kind of thing normally).
He had claimed that he has forgotten his password to this email address, but without it, he would not have been able to change his password on the betting account...so I found out instantly he had lied to me about it.
Now, he refused to give this information to me, just casually saying he had put some money on some bets and he would give me the passwords as he arrives here at my place.

As a result, I told him it's too late and we are no longer together, as he chose gambling over me. He tried to call me a few times, but I resisted to pick up, but I made a mistake and called him later. It wasn't because I was going to make up with him, but out of concern, as I knew he was ill and alone in a rented little holiday apartment. I know I shouldn't have, but I did...
He commented that he thought I'd finished with him, but I said nothing and only enquired about the state of his sinus infection....as a result, we have now been talking every day for the last few days, since then.
I have no idea how to get go on now, as if I do let him come here, he can't get a job without my assistance. If he comes here, there is only a limited amount of money he has, if I tell him to find a place of his own and to leave, he'd end up on the street, as he'd be without a job and without money, unable to get a place of his own.
Do you think bringing him back onto my break up with him a few days ago would be a way to go? I care a great deal about him and this is what I'd like to do: I'd like to tell him that we shall have a break...that he shall find himself a place and a job. Deal with himself and sort himself out, including smoking and gambling (I am expecting the kicking and screaming about the high unemployment over there...) and then we can revisit the situation, if we are both in the frame of mind to try again, but with dating properly first, unlike the first time around. It is highly unlikely he will accept this, but I feel this is the only way I could rebuild my relationship with him...what do you think?
Kindest regards
Pisces (Aquarius rising)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Pisces,
Well, here's the thing you're not realizing dear - you're with an addict (him, gambling) and YOU are actually his enabler. It's a cycle of co-dependence and it happens all the time with addicts. There's actually a saying, "Behind even good addict, is an even better enabler." Because you see, an addict NEEDS an enabler...in order to keep doing what they're doing.

You know why he has no money? Because he gambles. You know why he gambles? To make more money, so he can gamble more. You know why he can't hold a job? Because he rather be gambling. You know why he'll NEVER have any money to take care of himself? Because no matter how much money he has, he could have a million dollars...he'd gamble it away.

That's the reality dear - he's an addict. And he always will be, unless he receives professional help. And even then, relapse is a part of recovery. Very few addicts quit cold turkey and then make it successfully without relapsing :-(

And once an enabler becomes entangled with an addict, THEY too become an addict. Do you know what your addiction is? HIM. Your addiction is him, his drama and taking care of him. And again, this is a very common scenario, so don't feel bad about yourself or that, it happens all the time. Do you realize that if YOU ceased your addiction to him...he'd be fine? Do you realize that he'd HAVE to get a job? And that because he's savvy, he WOULD find some form of income to care for himself - even if through gambling?

Here's the enabling dear (enabling him to continue being an addict wihtout realizing it):

"he can't get a job without my assistance"

"there is only a limited amount of money he has"

"if I tell him to find a place of his own and to leave, he'd end up on the street"

"he'd be without a job and without money, unable to get a place of his own"

You see, he doesn't have to say a word in his own defense...because you're already providing him with the excuses to that argument. It's a given that he doesn't have any money dear, he's a gambling addict. He could have a million dollars and he's still end up broke, ya' know? Until he gets professional help for his addiction, he'll always be broke because he's feeding what money he does have right back into his addiction. That's the cycle of addiction.

"Do you think bringing him back onto my break up with him a few days ago would be a way to go?"

Regretfully dear, no, I don't think that will work - because it doesn't involve professional help. He'd probably do what most addicts do...just become more savvy about hiding their addiction better. Things would clear up for a few weeks, but then eventually, you'd find out he's still at it and...the cycle would continue.

And as long as you are willing to provide housing, food, clothing and care to this man without the intervention of professional help...he will be able to continue feeding every bit of money he does make right back into his addiction :-(

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

First, I really appreciate what you do here!

Question... is this a sofa date?

FYI - we've been on 2 dates, I'm a huge UFC fan, he owns a business that happens to house a projector screen, we missed a fight Jan 31st because we could not find a nice place that was showing it.

Yesterday he texted to suggest we go somewhere to watch the Feb 28th UFC fight - I agreed. Afterwards he said "and if we can't find a place I'll order it and we can watch here." "Here" meaning his place of business, not his home. I never responded

Does this sound like a nice gesture or a sofa date?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 17, 3:50 PM,
Regardless of whether it's a nice gesture or not, the reality is that it will end up being a sofa date - which could place you into a compromising position on the 3rd date.

I'm a big UFC fan as well - I get it LOL. And they are pay per view events, but it is possible that a sports bar would be showing it, instead of viewing it in his living room.

So I would suggest responding that if he could find a sports bar that was going to play the fight, that'd be great. I wouldn't flat out tell him you're uncomfortable with coming to his home just yet - instead, I'd signal to him in a round-about way that I'm much more excited about viewing the fight with a crowd of UFC fans that will create a "buzz" in the room - versus you and him in his living room.

If that fails and there's no public place to view it - then I'd suggest a UFC party that night at his house, so that you're not there alone with him. I'd suggest that he invite friends and ask them to each bring a covered dish of food - and turn it into a house party. Tell him you really enjoy watching the fights with other UFC fans because of the excitement it creates ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

It's @Anonymous Feb 17, 3:50 PM. Thanks so much for your advice. I have an update for you...

We never went on the date! In fact, after we scheduled the date I didn't hear from him again until Feb 25th - and that was strictly business. When he didn't mention our date during the conversation I had a feeling he'd flake so I made other plans. And sure enough...Feb 28th came and went without a phone call or text.

I received a text the next day that said, "Oh Nooo! The Rhonda Rousey fight was last night...thought it was next Sat! :-("

I didn't respond

I received a text about 8 hours later: "BTW... here is what happened.." (It was a link to an article about the fight)

I didn't respond

Monday morning I sent him an email regarding the things we talked about on the 25th (FYI - my organization has a contract with his company).

He didn't respond. My deadline for this project is March 5th so my gut tells me didn't respond because he knew the tight deadline would force me to call him.

I called him today. As soon as he heard my voice he started rambling about how he dropped the ball... his mother had surgery... we're only human… humans are imperfect... etc... etc... Meanwhile, I hadn't said a word after "Hi ____". Lol! After a while, his uncomfortable ramble turned into a question: "Why didn't you respond to my text messages?"

Me: I don't know...you didn't ask me anything and I didn't have anything to add to your statements. What were you expecting?

Him: Anything...something telling me how you felt at the time... ok... no worries... you disappointed me... something! Anything would have been better than nothing.

Me: (laughing) oh ok. I'll keep that in mind.

Him: Seriously, I really thought it was next weekend. Did you know it was the 28th?

Me: yes

Him: Oh! Well why didn't you just call to remind me?

Me: (laughing) because that's not my responsibility.

He laughed and said he didn't buy it...saying he can't believe that a strong, intelligent, high achieving woman like me would passively wait for him to confirm a date. (Haha! Pretty sure that was a subtle insult…) He went on to suggest we set some ground rules for future dates, then had the nerve to offer his definition of partnership! Mirror, it was hilarious!

I just listened intently and told him I agreed with his definition of partnership. Then I said, “here’s the thing… we’re not partners; we’re dating to get to know each other. My views on dating are very traditional, and where I’m from, women don’t call to confirm dates.”

This fool: What month were you born?

Me: September

Fool: Oh God… (laughing) That makes so much sense! You’re a Virgo aren’t you? That explains everything! Conversation over!

Me: Oh ok… can we get back to the details of the contract?

Mirror, what the hell just happened? He seems perfectly normal in business relations. But after two dates he disappeared for nearly two weeks… stood me up… and used every manipulative tactic in the book! Did I do something wrong here? Could I have handled this differently? Does my approach force men to convert into manipulative assholes?


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 3, 10:15 PM,
"Mirror, what the hell just happened?"

What just happened is you filtered him out and identified him to be an "entitled" man - a man with a serious sense of entitlement. He's entitled to disappear - you are not. He's entitled to make veiled insults - you are not. He's entitled to expect YOU to behave as if you're in a "partnership" with him - but HE doesn't have to follow the same guidelines himself.

It always cracks me up how many modern men expect women on the 2nd date to act indebted and committed to them, yet the men breeze in and out of the situation themselves at whim LOL. You're supposed to be the good obedient girlfriend by the 3rd date, while he runs off and disappears for two weeks and does whatever he wants. You're supposed to be thrilled that he's returned and you're supposed to accept his lame excuses and jump right into his lap, when meanwhile, he's a complete ass when delivering them.

"Did I do something wrong here? Could I have handled this differently? Does my approach force men to convert into manipulative assholes?"

The only thing you did here was beat this man at his own game, which by the way, was done deliberately so that he could trigger your insecurities which were then supposed to cause you to give chase and ultimate power and control over to him.

Notice how many times he attempted to trigger your insecurities while he was supposedly attempting to make amends? Let's count:

1) "you disappointed me"
2) "he can't believe that a strong, intelligent, high achieving woman like me would passively wait for him to confirm a date"
3) "(laughing) That makes so much sense! You’re a Virgo aren’t you? That explains everything! Conversation over!"

This fool is confused about what strong, intelligent, high achieving women truly are - and his comment doesn't even make sense. How can you associate strength, intelligence and high achievement. . .with sexual aggression? He assumes that because you're a strong women you'd be sexually aggressive. When meanwhile, true strength and intelligence immediately identifies that you don't roll over and play dead on the 3rd date, and then start chasing men around as if you're desperate.

Insecure women chase because they fear losing the man and try to prove they're worthy by chasing. Women who are confident do not behave in that manner. So it's apparent he can't tell the difference and he's been dating insecure women who immediately hand power and control over to him.

Only a jerk pretends to "forget" a date. And only a jerk then proves and validates he is indeed a jerk by jumping on the phone and delivering 3 manipulative insults or "negs" meant to trigger your insecurities and cause you to feel bad about yourself in all of what - 3 or 4 minutes??

Here's the thing dear. Most likely, this jag was expecting to sleep with you on the 3rd date, which is why he was gearing up for a sofa date. He was also most likely expecting you to be swooning for him by the 3rd date as well, believing in your mind that you were already in a "partnership" as he called it (notice he never said committment there). Which means that by the 3rd date, this man was most likely expecting to have a real hold over you, ya' know? He was expecting to have total control, he was expecting to have sex, and he was expecting for all of this to go exactly as it probably has 100 times before for him.

Trouble is - that didn't happen.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

And when that didn't happen, his true colors came out. Instead of apologizing like a gentlemen, he took to manipulation instead to make YOU feel bad about yourself to DEFLECT from the fact that he screwed up, was beat at his own game, and he's actually an asshole. And he was most likely hoping that in doing so, he'd gain the superior position that he's used to obtaining when dating.

I can already tell that when dating, as a man, he's not EARNING anything. . .instead, he's "weaseling" his way into it.

But I must say - you my dear - have my highest admiration. Because the way you handled this jagoff is EXACTLY the way I would've handled him as well LOL. You didn't get riled up or emotional, you gave it right back to him, he couldn't rattle you, you were dismissive of his manipulations and you stood your ground.

Trust me - you've given him plenty to think about LOL.

Whether he ever admits it or not, he'll remember you and he'll remember this event and all that happened and he'll play it over and over again in his head. He already gave himself away over the fact that he had already been doing that when he said "Why didn't you respond to my text messages?" "Anything would have been better than nothing."

Because you know what he was expecting there? He was expecting to get a "reaction" from you - an emotional one. He was expecting to have a "hysterical woman" on his hands, and if that happened - he probably would've felt very good about himself for having triggered that response in you.

But you see, when he DIDN'T trigger that response in you - he didn't know what to do, he started to crumble and babble, and then he caught himself and tried to flip the script by becoming manipulative.

It's all rather childish and it's a ploy for control from him. He has TOTALLY given himself away here LOL.

If I were you dear, I'd laugh this jagoff right into my past, and I'd stand strong and tall, knowing that I save myself from being taken advantage of by a complete fool.

Because you know what his actions tell me he was prepared to do next, after the 3rd date went his way as he was expecting?

He was prepared to sleep with you. . .and then disappear and leave you hanging, ultimately causing you to chase him around while he became dismissive of you, ignored you and eventually batted you away.

And you saved yourself, you spared yourself from that - so be VERY HAPPY and be VERY PROUD of how you handled this, because I would bet 1,000 bucks that was EXACTLY where he was ultimately going to go with this ;-)

Gem50 said...

@Anonymous March 3, 10:15,
You did a great job holding your own. I was impressed as I read your responses to his comments :-)
Thanks for sharing.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, it's Anonymous Mar 3, 10:15 PM.

Thanks for the analysis and encouragement! I really needed to hear that, as I was beginning to think I was the problem... :-)

Thanks to you also, Gem50!

Anonymous said...

Thank you for this article! I truly wish everyone single woman could read this b/c the sofa date is becoming such a huge part of dating culture and it's where relationship ready women are mistakenly ending up in hookup scenarios the end up negatively impacting their self-esteem.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

Just dealt with an emotionally unavailable man recently. Went to lunch with him 4 weeks ago and he has been msging me everyday since sounding more interested in my life but not moving the relationship forward. He was giving me more details about his life and I was assessing that information to see if we would be a good fit. Sounds like he is not over his ex gf as he is still good friends with her and he mentioned to me before that they went to lunch together before in our past conversations.

Last Friday we were originally talking about being friends with an ex and my and his opinions of it. I got responses from him after 11pm, with one message in particular stating that he was in my area...just had all you can eat sushi, was going to grab a drink and head home to sleep. Immediately I thought this guy is trying to set up a booty call with me but trying to sugar coat it and have me pursue. I read the text message out loud to my guy friend who was there and he agreed.

So I didn't respond to him that night but the next day, I decided that this was it and his intentions now were clear. I sent him a goodbye message very casually indicating I am no way mad about the situation starting ohh _____ sure sounds like you were thinking with your 2nd head last night. Told him I guess I already know what I need to know and that there are no hard feelings and good luck. I never seen this guy respond so quickly to my messages before. He said what am I talking about? Thinking with my 2nd head? How? Then says Don't know if you were looking for a message in his text messages and that he had no idea what I was talking about and also wished me good luck.

I felt like that was an attempt of him to get me to keep talking and to explain myself. I do not need to explain my boundaries to a grown up man so I have not responded since and have left it at that. Any response from me would be an indication to him that I was not ready to let go and will now chase him. Thanks for your articles, I read them often in order to remind myself that I deserve better. It's either your full attention or nothing at all. I am a lot better in ways of dealing with men like this than I was just a year ago.

Just wanted to say thanks!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous April 14, 3:08PM,
"I got a response from him after 11pm, with one message in particular stating that he was in my area...just had all you can eat sushi, was going to grab a drink and head home to sleep. Immediately I thought this guy is trying to set up a booty call with me but trying to sugar coat it. . .I read the text message out loud to my guy friend who was there and he agreed."

That's called "fishing." He was fishing around for an invite to stop over instead of going home.

And your guy friend saw RIGHT through that. This guy will never admit that's what that was, but it is what it is, and whether he admits it or not, he KNOWS deep down inside that he was fishing for an invite to come over after 11PM instead of going home.

And his explanation ". . .don't know if you were looking for a message in [my] text. . .[but have] no idea what [you're] talking about" - was simply an attempt to "play dumb" about it and guilt you into thinking that you're paranoid and overreacting.

Well played dear - that was an expert eye to deflect a "fishing" attempt that was meant to garner him a late night invite over to your place ;-)

Anonymous said...

hi im wondering this: if the mistake is already made and that i slept with a guy i met after 4 dates ( 4 weeks) is there anything i can do to repair this in a way ? like for example to not give it to him a second time ? please help :(

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 20, 3:19 PM,
"if the mistake is already made and that i slept with a guy i met after 4 dates ( 4 weeks) is there anything i can do to repair this in a way?"

Well, you can try to exclude sex from your next date, or you can try to pull back a bit, not be as available for dates and see if this increases your "value" in his eyes.

However, I won't lie - you don't really get a second chance to make a first impression :-(

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, us girls must keep you busy eh? I went on a double date with one of my single friends and these two guys (one of which she met online). She had started a group chat for us all and we followed it up by having a really chilled night, one drink in a local bar and an early night. Soon after one of the guys messaged me directly and a bit of a rapport started. A couple of days later (on a Saturday night) he was encouraging me to go to his house party (which he had mentioned on the date) when instead I invited him over to mine. It was late at night, I don't often do this and wasn't overly attracted to him but had enjoyed texting so invited him over. Turns out there was physical attraction after all. He stayed the night, he actually stayed late into the afternoon the next day. We watched a film together, I made him breakfast. He didn't want to seem to leave. I heard from him later that day and every day until we saw each other the following Thursday, Friday and Saturday. He had suggested going out that week but I had other plans so it always ended up that we met late at night. When we were together he would say incredibly forward stuff, how he wanted to take me on a day trip to the seaside, how when I got back from holiday this or that would happen. Finally on the Sunday after he'd stayed over, he said I want to take you out next week. When are you free? So we agreed the Wednesday. I then didn't hear from him Monday - Wednesday. By the day of the date and not having heard anything, I was furious. I left the group chat. My friend was furious, she left the group chat. The other guy messaged my friend to ask why and when she said, "I just really don't appreciate how your friend has treated my friend." He ended up saying "what was the big deal, it was just sex. She (me) got feelings, he didn't. Simple." She replied on my behalf saying, "no actually he gave the impression he had other intentions. He was the one that wanted the date." They happen to live together (the two guys) so soon after I get a message from, "hey you, I can only assume you are beyond pissed off with me and I can only apologise if that's the case. It was never my intention to be a d**k, I have genuinely had a beyond sh**ty week at work and with the house move I've been all over the place. I'm not looking for sympathy but I don't want you to think I used you or was acting like a d**k either. Really am sorry. x" Now if you've taught me anything it was not to reply...he has disrespected me and by the sounds of it he knows he's done wrong so why would I allow that behaviour? Anyway, we all live in the same area so it turns out the following day my gf runs into him. She's frosty and he says he's sorry this has happened and he will ring me. Of course he hasn't. In the mean-time my friend has socialised a bit with the other guy and that said guy is obviously desperate for us to all be friends so has messaged me "you seriously angry", "have you calmed down yet," "and you call me a diva." All the while I haven't heard a peep from the guy whose now gone MIA. Anyway I broke my silence to the friend. I know I shouldn't have, I replied sarcastically to one of his message, "you're right it was just sex." I shouldn't have said anything should I? How do I manage this now? Accept that I was duped?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 26, 4:27 PM,
Well I probably don't have to say this, but always remember this - statistically speaking, if you have sex with someone before 30 days of knowing them have passed, there's a 90% probability that you will not be with that person one year later. This comes from research done by Dr. Wendy Walsh, shared in the book "30 Day Love Detox:"

"Nearly 90 percent of the fast movers in one study had broken up before one year. However, if couples waited just 30 days before engaging in sex, 24 percent were still together a year later. That’s a one in four chance."

So waiting even just 30 days increases your odds by 24%. Waiting even longer increases your odds even further. And if that's the case, then that means the opposite applies as well, and the sooner you go to bed with someone, the sooner the situation will burn out.

So just remember in the future - if you like the guy and you could see yourself with him, wait to have sex with him. Because if you don't, chances are it'll be nothing more than a hookup, brief fling or short 3 month affair.

"He ended up saying "what was the big deal, it was just sex. She (me) got feelings, he didn't. Simple."

Unfortunately, that's the way men look at it. And it's a big reason why casual sex is very dangerous territory for women to enter into emotionally, as it can do a lot of damage to one's self-esteem, confidence, and feelings of self-worth. And a reason a lot of men bail shortly after receiving it quickly is because they truly don't have feelings about it - because they do not know the woman well enough to have developed any.

Most men do not develop emotions and feelings (fall in love, not lust, love) until between the 3rd and 6th months. Prior to that 3 month mark, they're generally only building up "affections" that can lead to love. So you can imagine that on day 2 or day 3. . .there truly is nothing that exists emotionally :-( You have to let a man see who you truly are for some time in order to give him the space he needs to develop affection and feelings for you.

"How do I manage this now?"

Stay away from these two men - both of them. The guy that dated you is claiming he's "busy," when meanwhile the man he lives with is saying it was just sex. Either way, neither scenario is good and it's clear this isn't a match, so don't put one more ounce of your time into it.

And trust me on this - staying silent, and I mean truly silent, to this man you were involved with will not sit well with him. I imagine he's used to being chased by women, and he's used to them getting angry, and he's probably used to being able to "talk" his way back into their bedrooms for rounds 2-3-4, etc. easily. So that's what he's expecting here - DON'T give it to him.

You have no other option here than to hold your head high, stay silent and non-responsive letting both of these men know that you and your friend too are not like a lot of other women. . .you RESPECT YOURSELVES, and you're not going to let yourself get burned again.

Don't give this too much thought, don't take either one of these guys seriously, don't beat yourself up over this, and keep moving forward. Chalk this up to a valuable learning lesson so that something positive can be taken from it, and don't fret over two jerks :-)

Anonymous said...

Got invited to a sofa date after a couple regular dates. I said no, of course. How should I proceed from here? We are still texting like normal for now. Just go out on another date like normal? Just looking for more of your good advice for when you say no to this.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous July 30, 1:20AM,
I'd hold off on any sofa dates until at least the 30 day mark - or even longer if you're not ready to move the relationship to a physical one. When a date like that is offered, you can simply suggest an "activity" of sorts instead, that's obviously outside the home.

It doesn't have to be anything over-the-top or lavish. Going for a walk in the park and an ice cream cone, possibly going to an amusement park if that's an option, maybe catching a movie - anything along those lines if it's still very early in the relationship.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, I'm the one who got invited to a sofa date and asked for additional advice. Well, I had told him lets go out and he agreed then disappeared on me. He usually is blowing me up and now, nothing. I had a gut feeling he just wanted sex. I thought it was a bad move on his part. If someone is interested in me, wouldn't they worry more that I might take that invitation wrong, that an invitation so early would make a bad impression? Ladies, I think it's a bad sign if someone suggests this too early. I feel bad but I will quickly get over it , as in about 5 minutes lol. I wonder why mirror do I always seem to be attracted to the worst ones? Just started online dating , had 6 dates and this was the one I liked.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Thu, Jul 30, 8:37 PM,
"I wonder why mirror do I always seem to be attracted to the worst ones?"

Well it's online dating and in that world, especially that world, this happens - a lot. Many men there come and go, disappear and reappear, and float in and out of a lot of women's lives regularly, unfortunately. And chances are if he doesn't hear a peep from you, he's going to return in a few weeks. And when he does. . .you get the pleasure of giving him a dose of his own medicine

Sit tight, because I'm sure that moment will arrive for you ;-)

Anonymous said...

You are amazing MOA! I LOVE your blog & advice! Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA. I love your site ! Lots of great information here. I think I've been invited for a sofa date... but am not sure.

A little while back, I met a guy at a party and we seemed to hit it off really well. I'm 45 and divorced for 5 years and he's a very youthful 55 and a widower for 5 years with two daughters (13 and 14). He asked me out for drinks to get to know each other a bit better and had a great time. He'd asked a couple times during the date if he could see me again. He was a gentleman the entire time and we shared a great kiss at the end of the evening. He texted me a few days later to say hello, but there was no mention of another date. After a week, I hadn't heard from him again... so assumed he wasn't interested after all and sent a text saying it was great seeing him again and wished him well. He texted me back almost right away to say that he was so sorry he was MIA... he'd had a lot of stuff come up. He really wanted to see me again, but wasn't sure when. Then he send a second text at the same time saying the kids will be with their granny on Friday night and if I wanted to come by, he would explain what was going on. I'd said I'd like to see him again but was going to be away for the weekend (which I was... but wouldn't go to his house at this point anyway) and said he could call me next week. It's been just over a week now and I haven't heard from him. Was this a 'sofa date' request and he's disappeared since I turned him down? I've never been out with a widower and know it can take a lot of time and patience. I also understand he's a fulltime dad and does have other stuff on the go.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 20, 1:12 PM,
"Was this a 'sofa date' request and he's disappeared since I turned him down?"

It was a sofa date, otherwise, he would've planned a formal date. He had the entire evening free, yet he chose to invite you to his home on the 2nd date instead of out to dinner, movies, etc.

Probably hasn't disappeared though. Chances are he'll circle around. But based on his actions, I think he's seeking something casual versus committed because his contact is sporadic and he doesn't seem to be participating in formal dating.

It's still too soon to tell and all you can do is continue moving forward with your life, dating others, getting out and about, etc. The best way for a woman to know if a man is genuinely interested is to see if the man pursues her. If this guy wants you, he knows where to find you and he'll come seek you out ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 20, 8:00 PM,
"he does not want to be vulnerable. For example, instead of saying "Do you want to go out with me thursday?" like a mature, gentleman, he will say "so are you still busy all week? (laughing emoji)"

It sounds as if he's a bit immature and a bit insecure and unsure of himself. So instead of putting himself out there, he beats around the bush and he frustrates you and himself most likely as a result.

The next time he says "so are you still busy all week? (laughing emoji)" -- you mirror him and respond with "is this your way of asking me for a date (laughing emoji)."

That places the ball right back into his court and he has to "come straight" to respond to that. And it's possible that once that happens, he'll change his approach and it will just be much more clear moving forward.

If he doesn't and he only responds to that with another toying comment and continues with that type of approach, then it's possible he's more immature than suspected. If he's remains unclear with you in his approach, your response needs to be along the lines of the response given above which prods him to come straight and clarify.

"Now I do want to see him but I feel like the ball is in my court now? Like he really waits for me to say "I am available monday, are you? Can I tell him when I can see him at this point? Or should I make him wait again?"

I wouldn't give him your availability until he come straight and clarifies what he wants. Because even though he appears to be a nice guy and you like him and want to see him again, the reality is that if you respond with your availability thus making this immature approach work for him. . .then he'll continue to do it - because it's working for him.

He's only going to change his approach if it's no longer working for him. If your response to his indirect approach is to mirror him and force him to clarify himself, he should get the message ;-)

Anonymous said...

You're right that the sofa date = I want to grope her without the effort and risk of planning a big outing. But god damn this is a poorly written article. You repeat yourself in nearly every paragraph. It could be edited down a great deal.

Europa said...

Hey wise Mirror of Aphrodite, here's something I came to recently in a whirlwind turmoil of emotions when I was basically propositioned by a man I was extremely attracted to. Something in me made me stop because I was born knowing that our bodies are precious and so is our sexual energy. Giving it away for egoic gratification will never ever satisfy me and I think, more and more, people are waking up to this. Despite social media and television/music videos repeated attempts to have everyone degrade themselves and devalue their power. I guess being a Sag with a Cancer Moon makes me hot water and therefore lands me in it sometimes haha... but jokes aside, I wrote a letter I never intended to send, simply to release the pent up shadows that had been hiding inside my heart/energy field for ... lifetimes... And it may help other ladies (and men) see another perspective... It's MY truth, doesn't have to be for everyone and I certainly try NOT to judge others for enjoying their bodies (as long as no-one gets hurt, right?)... This chap did the disappearing act quick as blink once I stopped being empowered cos he literally bowled me over in surprise that I could feel such intense feelings so soon after a long, drawn-out separation from a 13 year marriage/relationship... then instead of standing in my power (cos boy, when I finally ended the relationship that had belittled me for years, I felt SO invincible - like I had giant WINGS)... then I got tested all over again to see just how close to my inner spark of God I had really gotten.... Oh boy, just when I thought I got it, it was .... pffffff... gone.... LOL elusive as trying to hold light. Why DO men treat women like light switches? Because we hold the light! HAHAHA.... So hold on to your power ladies until you know the operator of that switch isn't going to manipulate you. That he's a true heart who will love you and respect you and treat you like his queen. But remember, you need to act like one too. Fair is fair, maidens.

"Perhaps you were a reminder to me that I shouldn’t trust men with my affections. Ever. Somehow though, I don’t think that is true. I’m not and never have been one for casual encounters either. No skills in that area I’m afraid. Like I said to you, I treat the act of making love as just that: a sacred sharing of body, mind and heart – and spirit/energy. To me, making love (or is it increasing love?) is not to be treated like a fast food takeaway - to be guiltily/thoughtlessly consumed. I never liked junk food. Whilst it might initially alleviate hunger, it certainly leaves one feeling somewhat unfulfilled, slightly poisoned and empty the next day. I don’t judge others for liking junk food but if you were wondering, I’m not that kind of lady. Eating is necessary – healthy and natural and very enjoyable too. But I like wholesome foods that nourish me, not poison me. So casual encounters for a short term thrill don’t do it for me. Sometimes I wish they did as then I would probably be like most of humanity they portray in the media. Unfortunately, my heart has to be in it for it to be worthy of anything meaningful as otherwise I tend to view the whole thing as slightly amusing. And I doubt there would be many men who would appreciate that kind of bemused detachment.

Europa said...

cont...


But heartbreaks aside, there is a beautiful man out there who matches my level of love and light. I can feel him. I’ve even had several dreams/visions about him recently. You see, I believe that true spiritual love can exist between a man and a woman but that it is rare to find. I live in this level of hope within my own being (or at least I try to) but for years was in doubt about how powerful we, as co-creators are with “The Great Spirit”. I know now (my recent awakening) that this is the greatest deception mankind has ever lived with. That we are less than, that we are limited. That we are not powerful. And it is a sad fact in humanity that people try to steal each others’ power in order to feel powerful themselves for they do not know how to generate their own power having had it stolen from them by the very people who profess to have loved them since they were small. I don’t want to do that to my child or even to my friends or people I work with. “Forgive them Father for they know not what they do”. We’ve all done it, some are still doing it and/or are suffering from it; ‘tis the nature of this dualistic and somewhat parasitic reality we inhabit. I’ve woken and I don’t want to be knocked unconscious again by the unconscious actions of others.

I only want to share love and light in this dimension and understand the message behind the lessons I am constantly presented with. I struggle at times with all that seems to be on my shoulders at the moment but I am doing my best to cope and that’s all that I ask of anyone else. That; and the truth. "

Speak your truth, love yourself and go within and seek the beauty that you have always held, ALL ALONG. This is the man that reminded me of this and to him, I am grateful.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 3, 3:30 PM,
There's a reason I do that - but I won't bother to explain why.

Thank you for stopping by to cast judgment, not contribute anything of value but your criticism, and behave as the editorial police.

What would we all do without those who police the Internet - they bring so much to the world LOL.

Anonymous said...

Agreed! Sofa date= prelude to the bedroom. I had no understanding of that unfortunately. I actually DID simply want to watch the movie, as this person was my friend. Fortunately I did indicate that I was not interested in the anything else when he "made moves". He told me that I should "drink more alcohol" which I did not!

Thank you for your wonderful write-ups. I am reading through them all and feel like I will be better prepared for a number of situations the next time they arise!

Anonymous said...

Oh how I wish I had read this article 5 years ago. I unknowingly accepted a 'sofa date' although I had boundaries and made sure those physical boundaries were not crossed. This started the most up and down, frustrating relationship I have ever known. We continued "seeing" each other without me requiring him to make an effort for my company. I made it easy for him. Initially I was not seeking a relationship as I was healing from the breakup of a previous heartbreak, but the more time I spent getting to know this guy,the more I liked him. Before long I let my boundaries down and it turned physical and the physical connection was like a spiritual connection. I had children from a previous marriage and felt that until it was serious I did not want to invite him to my home. I preferred to spend time with him at his home. I unknowingly made it so easy for him. He never had to show up for me or prove himself to me. I told myself it was a relationship...an unconventional relationship with no label. I made excuses for him justifying his fear of commitment on his failed previous relationship where he was left badly hurt.

5 years later I still have no spoken commitment from him even after falling pregnant to him and having a child to him. (At 44 years of age it was unexpected and thus unplanned). To me it was almost a miracle and whether he was happy about this event or not,I believed this baby was meant to be. Since having my gorgeous baby girl of course the dynamics of the relationship changed between us. I could no longer visit him at his home. I wondered if he would now stay with me and the baby at my home. I became anxious about the status of our "relationship". My anxiety caused me to be on edge when we came to visit us. I didnt know whether to behave like a girlfriend and be affectionate and loving or whether to be distant and polite if he just thought of me as the mother of his child. I have shared my fears and my feelings with him yet I get no answers or clarity.

This 5 year ride has been unbearable. I love this guy and want us to be together as a family. For whatever reason he does not want this. I feel quite bitter as all along I always told him I do NOT do casual relationships and if I'm with you it's because I think you are the person I see a future with. He knew this yet he continued calling and seeing me for all these years. If he did not want a relationship with me he should have stopped calling.

I am only NOW setting boundaries with him and no longer accept less than the relationship I need for my own happiness. So far he is not liking me taking back my control. It is not going well at present. I am trying to accept he does not want to be with my baby and I but struggling to truly let go of the hope I had for things to eventually work out.

If I never accepted that sofa date I would not be in this sad situation.

Unknown said...

I'm 50 years old and get offered sofa dates. So it looks like a lifetime just not for you younger girls. My story was heart breaking as I was going thru a bad divorce and became friends with this man that I meet at a bar. I would see him at the bar regularly. He had one short marriage (his wife left him ) no kids. But he became a friend to me and finally asked me in a date. 1st date ~ friends Halloween party 2nd date meet his father and showed me around the place he runs and owns then to dinner. We started to mess around and I stopped it. 3rd date he broke it off with me but stills tries to string me along. I got so frustrated with him that I finally told him to man up. Haven't heard from him since but I still have feelings for him 😔

Anonymous said...

I am 58 and just started online dating a year after my divorce. Met this guy who is 65 and has been divorced for almost 2 years.

After 2 weeks of chatting online and texting, we met up for a first date. We went for a walk along the beach chatting for close to 2 hours. We clearly wanted to meet up again. The second date we had dinner, went to a movie. He asked me back to his place and my intent was not to have sex. I want to build a friendship first. We were on his sofa and he started putting his arms around me and cuddling. I figured he was wanting sex. I am a very physically warm person but I did not want to lead him on and said I want to get to know him better before anything physical happens. He said okay with a deadpan expression so I it was hard to read how he felt about it.. Third date, we go to a concert and head back to my place for coffee. We were watching TV and he put his arms around me again. So I reiterate in a nice way, saying we need to know each other better. This time he says "Okay. I like to sleep with a woman first to see how comfortable I am with her physically, then I decide if I want to go further".

Mirror, does what he said make sense? Do some men have to be physical with a woman first before deciding it is worth their time? I am sticking to my rules but wonder if I should continue seeing this guy because of what happened. He backed off both times at my request yet tried again. Is he a sleaze bag or is this just normal male hormones speaking?



The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Sep 11, 4:37 PM,
"This time he says "Okay. I like to sleep with a woman first to see how comfortable I am with her physically, then I decide if I want to go further". . .does what he said make sense?"

It does -- if you're still foolish enough at the age of 65 to think that compatibility and emotional bonds are all formed physically, via sex, and nothing else.

The truth is that the more you get to a know a person, as a person, those bonds aid in your overall attraction to the individual - physical and otherwise.

"Do some men have to be physical with a woman first before deciding it is worth their time?"

Only the truly shallow ones. Don't get me wrong, physical compatibility counts for something. . .but it doesn't count for the huge chunk this man is placing on it.

True gentlemen prefer to know a woman as a person FIRST, before taking things to the physical level. Because if they do not care for the woman as a person. . .they will not even have a desire to sleep with her (even for thrills). Because they realize that sex is only great when it takes place with someone you care for.

"Is he a sleaze bag or is this just normal male hormones speaking?"

This guys giving some negative signals already unfortunately. Men who speak like this and place that much weight on sex are signaling to you their motivation for their involvement with you -- sex.

They're also signaling to you that it's highly likely that after receiving it, they'll disappear on you. . .because they're already lining up their defense for that and preparing YOU for it under the claim of physical incompatibility.

Sex without emotion is not as good as sex with caring emotions for the other involved. Men who want to give you "a test run" BEFORE any feelings are involved are pretty much guaranteeing that they'll disappear. Why? Because they're not going to feel anything special for you, because they didn't even bother to invest the time to get to know you first, or develop any type of real connection with you that goes beyond the shallow.

Take his own words for instance. "I like to sleep with a woman first to see how comfortable I am with her physically, then I decide if I want to go further."

Well - how has that worked out for him? How has his approach worked for him? Think about that for a minute.

Is he with any of the women he's rushed into sex and physical intimacy with? Nope. And did rushing into physical intimacy with them help him bond on a deeper level with them? Nope.

His theory helps him get laid, that's it. It is not helping him establish a long term relationship, because in order to do that, you need a different approach. A much slower one that forms solid, strong foundation bonds to grow from.

This man is 65, and still single. His theory that true connection lies fully on sexual compatibility is NOT working for him. And when he has sex with these women, he's deciding not to move on cause he's likely not feeling anything for them. . .because he's not investing the time to truly get to know them.

Again, he's 65 and single. He's wanting to test drive women like they're objects. Like he's buying a car or something and kicking the tires first. It's ridiculously immature behavior that clearly isn't working for him. If it was -- he'd have likely found someone by now. In two years and God know how many women. . .he hasn't found even ONE he considers himself to be sexually compatible with?

Umm, that's an awful lot of bad sex LOL ;-)

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