This is a topic that seems to spark a bit of debate each time it arises. Naturally, no one likes to be used. Men claim women use men for money and women claim men use women for sex. And there’s truth to both of those claims. But there’s also a good old fashioned way of alleviating any hard feelings of being used.
How, you ask?
The feeling of being used can be eliminated by fulfilling one another’s needs in respectful ways. Let’s face it, women like sex just as much as men. But guys, nothing makes a woman feel crappier and more insecure about herself than a man ringing her phone at some inopportune moment, inviting himself over to simply plunk himself down on her sofa – and then expecting sex from his less than stellar efforts.
And ladies, nothing makes a man feel more used than a woman accepting a date that the man drops $100 or more on and in the end he doesn’t even receive so much as a thank you or a goodnight kiss from his efforts to impress and the woman displays no intention of ever seeing the man again.
So How Can Ill Feelings of Being Used be Eliminated?
The first of which is: Ladies, if you have no intention of ever seeing the man again, pick up the tab or at the very least, offer to pay your half. A true gentleman won’t permit you to do this and, if that’s the case, might I ask that you please reconsider your assumptions of him and give him a second chance?
The second of which is: Men, if you want sex, please consider the use of romance to obtain it. I realize that new concepts such as “no strings attached” exist in the dating world, however, please realize that you can only make a woman feel crappy about herself and used once or twice effectively and get away with it. Any more than that and her insecurities will cause her to rethink the “arrangement” she has with you and she’ll shut you off – and out.
No one wants to spend time with someone that makes them feel crappy about themselves.
This Can All be Avoided With a Very Simple Equation: Romance = Sex
Yep, it’s that simple. If a woman feels romanced (respected) by a man and is made to feel special in some way via actions (not a bunch of BS words), she can be talked into some wild things. Not only that, she’ll tend to go along with those things a lot longer than she would if a man weren’t lifting a finger for her.
And men, we all know you want sex. Is it really that much to ask for you to take a woman out to dinner or offer a movie or drinks or bring her a flower – before you attempt to pounce?
What I’m trying to say here is:
Guys: If you want your needs fulfilled with sex then fulfill a woman’s needs with romance (respect).
Ladies: Refuse to fulfill a man’s needs with sex unless your needs are fulfilled with romance (respect).
It’s a mating dance. It’s the recipe for successful mating and it’s an age-old equation. Romance = Sex.
Gentlemen and Tradition
Listen up guys. Have you ever seen James Bond let a woman provide for him? Nope. And why is that? It’s because James Bond types of men, true gentlemen, true “macs,” understand that women want and need romance and they understand that their masculinity is closely associated with their ability to provide. They understand that the way to successfully mate with a woman – is to be chivalrous, provide for her and romance her.
You’d never see Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin letting a woman pick up the tab or provide for them either. They, too, understood the old equation “Romance = Sex.” They were respectful gentlemen and each considered themselves to be a “man’s man.” And a man’s man does not fall short when it comes to being a man by letting a woman provide for him or take a masculine, leading role.
These men, true gentlemen, realize the value of romance and they understand the implications of masculine versus feminine energy. If Frank Sinatra asked you out to dinner and you, as a woman, attempted to pick up the tab – he would’ve been insulted. You would’ve insulted his masculinity, his manhood, and implied to him that you felt he wasn’t, or couldn’t, be a good provider.
It would’ve been construed as a direct blow to his manhood and his masculinity.
There’s a big difference between gentlemen and immature “man boys.” Even modern day manufacturers and large corporations realize this and embrace good old fashioned values and tradition in this modern day world.
Take, for instance, the Ketel One Vodka marketing campaign. Ketel One Vodka is raising their “value” in consumers’ eyes by marketing their vodka strictly to – yep, you guessed it – gentlemen only. And they make reference to “gentlemen” in every single one of their commercials.
They speak directly to “gentlemen” only in their marketing campaigns and they portray gentlemen as chivalrous and respectful with women in those campaigns. Notice that even though they portray men as men, gentlemen and manly men – they DO NOT portray them as disrespectful cavemen to women. In fact, they portray them as the exact opposite. They portray gentlemen as chivalrous to women – respectful. And this in no way decreases their value as men or portrays them as weak. In fact, it increases their value as men, real men, gentlemen – and portrays them as strong, respectful and chivalrous to women:
Ketel One Vodka realizes that when it comes to men and women, traditional gender roles are primal, deeply ingrained, and still exist. Ketel One strongly realizes that chivalry is not dead and that high value exists in traditional ways.
Ketel One refers to “the days when substance was style” and the days when “men were men” in their marketing campaigns – and they market directly to men, real men, manly men – gentlemen:
So why the heavy play on “real men, manly men” and "tradition" and “gentlemen” in their marketing campaigns?
Because Ketel One realizes that real men, gentlemen – spend money. Ketel One knows that attempting to market to a “man boy” or an immature player will have little to no effect on their sales. Why? Because Ketel One realizes that man boys, immature men who are players – won’t easily part with their money. They realize that man boys and players are generally selfish men.
Ketel One doesn’t want to decrease their “value” in the eyes of others by associating themselves with men such as that. Ketel One wants to place a high value on themselves, their brand, their product and their company by associating and marketing themselves strictly to men, real men, man’s men – gentlemen only. Ketel One realizes that gentlemen are perceived as having a much higher value to other men - and also to women. So the message in their marketing is:
1) Real men, gentlemen, drink Ketel One Vodka.
2) Women place a high value on gentlemen. The message here to men is, “Drink Ketel One and women will place a high value on you. Women will see you as a gentleman, a man’s man, a real man.”
Brilliant if you ask me. I’d date any one of these men portrayed in these commercials in a heartbeat. I wouldn’t hesitate to think twice about it. As a matter of fact, if I met a man like that, I’d be giddy over it. And if I ever see a man drinking Ketel One Vodka when I’m out, you can bet your bottom dollar that subconsciously – he’s going to have a higher value in my eyes and stand out above the rest of the men in the establishment – as a man, a true gentleman.
And this isn’t because I’m some weak minded female that easily falls for marketing and image ploys. It’s because of the association of their brand with “gentlemen” and the subconscious affect that their marketing campaigns have on this primal concept that’s deeply, genetically ingrained inside of each and every one of us – male or female.
My point is: Subtleties and the unspoken dynamics of male versus female, masculine versus feminine energy, and traditional gender roles – still exist – deeply ingrained within men and women’s psyches - particularly when it comes to men, women, love and relationships.
Some May Call It Sexist
But let’s face it - there IS a difference between the sexes. Yes, I’m a woman, an independent woman. I pay my own way, keep a roof over my head and work full time to support myself. But that’s my career – not my life. In life, my personal life, I’m a woman through and through. And when it comes to dating and love and relationships, I’m a woman. I don’t want to be treated like a dude. I don’t want to be a man’s buddy (f**k buddy). I want to be treated like the woman that I am.One is your work life and the other is your personal life. In your personal life, you’re still a woman so don’t mesh the two. Men like to date women (feminine energy). If they wanted to date a dude (masculine energy), that’s exactly what they’d do – switch teams.
So in my career, I’m comfortable wearing the pants and assuming a leadership role and exhibiting masculine energy. But in my personal life and in my love relationships, I’m a woman. It’s the one area of my life where I prefer to relax, breath and relinquish control and the lead over to a man. It’s one area of my life where I let a man be a man and let myself be a woman.
As a woman, there is great pleasure and satisfaction in being treated as such.
And, ladies, I can tell you this – there is nothing more attractive to men than a woman who can do just that. Men find a woman who can be independent and take care of herself yet still be a woman in all other aspects - completely irresistible. It’s incredibly enticing to men, the thought of a woman like that.
“I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan and never, ever let you forget – you’re a man.” Yet another popular marketing campaign that appealed to the importance of traditional gender roles in relationships, the Enjoli commercial of the 1980’s:
And take a look at the masculinity and romance concept of the recent Old Spice marketing campaign that revived a dying brand and turned it mainstream once again with taglines like, “the man your man could smell like:”
Why do you think campaigns such as these become wildly popular and increase brand sales by the thousands? Why do you think campaigns that signal traditional concepts such as masculine versus feminine combined with romance are still being used to generate sales successfully even in the decades following the women’s liberation movement?
It’s because they appeal to those traditional gender roles that are genetically, deeply ingrained in each and every one of us. If this was such a lost “eras gone by” sexist concept as many would argue, then these campaigns would not be the wildly popular, successful marketing campaigns that they are.
They’re popular because everyone can relate – both men and women.
So before you’re quick to fluff off and dismiss traditional gender roles as sexist and a dead concept from eras gone by, realize that when you boil things down to their base form – men are still men and women are still women. The roles that Mother Nature assigned us millennias ago still exist and are genetically, biologically, deeply ingrained in men and women psyches.
It’s a concept that’s so relevant that it’s still being used successfully in marketing campaigns some 30 years after women’s liberation.
So again I repeat, ladies and gentlemen – Romance = Sex.
The Answer is Clear
On the same token, men are biologically programmed to chose women they mate with that have the best and highest chance of producing offspring for them. And do you know what the number one factor they subconsciously use to make their choice is? Yep, you guessed it - a woman's body.
Studies have revealed that hip to waist ratio matters tremendously when it comes to men's choices in a female mate. Why? Because a proper hip to waist ratio signals "health" to a man. And it's the traditional hour glass figure that appeals the most to them. It's not about being fat or skinny, ladies. It's not about size. Hell, Marilyn Monroe was a size 16 by today's standards. But that blonde bombshell had a near perfect hip to waist ratio of 0.69. Sophia Loren, also a size 16 by today's standards, hit the sweet spot coming in at a perfect 0.7.
So yes, women look for men to be providers and men focus on a woman's physical form. It is what it is, folks. Don't fight it, embrace it. Embrace the differences.
Men, if you want to successfully mate then pay for the date. Don't make a woman feel used by expecting something for nothing.
Ladies, if he's impressed you and you want to see him again, let him be a man and provide for you by picking up the tab. If you have no intention of ever seeing him again, avoid making him feel used by offering to pay your half or pick up the entire tab.
Happy mating and successful dating, folks.
53 Comments:
MOA- you are the best! This is so true! I haven't dated much in my life, but if a man can not pick up the tab, I will def question his ability to make me happy.. 1. I will question to be a provider/caretaker of a household 2. I would wonder if he is broke 3. I will wonder if he is somewhat of a user or don't think I am worth it. I would never accept a date from a man if I wasn't somewhat interested, and I always offer because its just decent manners...Good stuff!
Here here
Great article Ms. Mirror,
Next time I am at the packy, guess what I'm buying: Ketel One! lol
This article reminded me of a discussion I had in my late 20's with a group a guys I was working with. I was the only female working with four guys for a few days on a project in a secluded area. They were all good guys (but I wasn't dating any of them, so who knows), and throughout the years, a couple have become family to me.
As we worked, they talked about mostly guy stuff and I didn't have much to say. I just listened to their man-chatter. But one conversation got interesting. They were complaining about men having to pay for dates (I don't remember their exact words, but they weren't happy with it since women were making just as much money as men in our line of work).
I chimed in with this one and said, "I don't like to be with a cheap man."
Oh boy, they got ALL OVER me (group-think and pack-power) with how sexist I was being, I made just as much money as them, and why should THEY have to pay, etc., etc.
So I explained, from my experience, that when a man is cheap with his money, he is also cheap in bed.
That just about threw them for a loop. Stopped them right in their tracks. Not what they expected. LOL
All of them were very interested and wanted to hear more. So I explained that when I had dated a man who had a hard time paying for a date, or made a point to make a point that he was paying for the date, or who kept count on who's "turn" it was to pay for the date (yes, I dated that guy for 2 years off and on -- UGH!) in bed he acted the same way: it was all about him with little consideration of my needs -- and who wants to go to bed with THAT?
Haha! I still chuckle over that conversation. None of them had a response -- they were literally frozen in their tracks. They all just looked at me, looked at each other, and then walked away to go to back to their work and I could see the wheels in their head turning. (I hope I helped change their attitude for all the sista's they dated after that ;-).
I like your comment about a woman being a leader at work and letting go at home. I was able to do that with Scorpio. I remember one time going out, handing over the keys to my car, him gladly driving, me putting my seat back,exhaling and him observing me and grinning from ear to ear. I put my feet up on the windshield, layed back, just relaxed and he commented, "That's hot."
To me, I was just relaxing and letting go of my stresses; I can see now, to him, I was letting him be the man.
Good lessons to take with me into the future... thx.
Hi Mirror. If you are dating a man for four months, is ever acceptable to treat him once in a while? Men want to feel appreciated as well!
@Anonymous,
Well, yes and no. I mean, don't get me wrong, a guy deserves something for all his efforts, especially a gentlemen. And yea, you can treat and pick up the tab for special occasions or minimal items once in a while.
However, a gentlemen . . he won't really like that. He won't really be comfortable with that and it'll seem somewhat awkward to him, letting a woman provide for him.
So my suggestion is, if you want to make the man feel appreciated in some way after a significant amount of time because he's been good to you, rather than buy him dinner - cook him dinner instead.
I know a lot of men that freak out and get excited about home cooked meals. Particularly one's tailor made just for them. When a guy sees you putting hours of work and thought and preparation into a meal like that for him - it really does make him feel like a man and it really does make him feel special.
Particularly single men that live alone off of pizza, hoagies and chicken wings all the time.
Find out the man's favorite meal, go buy everything necessary to throw it together, learn how to cook/prepare it really well, to his specifications, make desert to go along with it - and follow it up with a back rub on the sofa.
It sounds simple, but a man's eyes light up like a Christmas tree when he sees that, "Wow, you did all of this for me?! This looks fantastic and it smells great! I didn't know you could cook like this!"
I've never received one complaint, LOL ;-)
Thank you Mirror for answering my question. What I use to do was once a blue moon treat my guy when we went out to eat. He never said No! I did it just to show that I noticed his kindness and I wasn't taken him for granted. My cooking skills are OKAY.. Lolol! It could be better but I will make sure the next worthy guy experience my cooking. Lol! Thanks Mirror
I just met a guy through online dating last week
Mirror and all the ladies who are reading this today 14 February 2013.
Talking of dates, if you haven't got a date tonight, then I myself wish you a happy Valentine's Day. Just because you've not got a date tonight don't be sad, you might meet someone amazing as soon as next week ;-)
I did get asked out tonight but it was an Internet date, first time meeting, and I thought, "ugh, I can't be doing with that on V. Day so I will stay in on my own instead, as they'll be no weirdness there guaranteed!
AnonWoman
I second what AnonWoman said
Mirror,
I have a question for you. I noticed that the Ketel one commercial was not only geared towards men, but a certain type of man and when I say that I mean Caucasian. I have dated a lot of men, mostly black and I must say that I have come across a lot of the “man babies” that you discussed. Truthfully, I can only remember one man baby not paying for my date (loser). Don’t get me wrong, I have dated men that are ready, willing, and able to pay for everything all of the time, but those were mostly African men. The majority of the African American men that I dated seemed to feel as if though after paying for even the cheapest date, they expected a standing ovation or some kind of prize and I always express my gratitude. So I thought of something, I am African and in Africa the majority of the commercials have Africans in them. This means that products are targeted towards African men and or African women as a whole. In the states, there are commercials such as the Ketel one commercial that are geared towards Caucasian men and then there are commercials like some of the McDonald’s ads that are targeted towards black men. I really can’t think of any commercials that show African American men being gentlemen, at least not lately and commercials like those are few and far between. I’ll give an example of one of the McDonalds ads. There was an ad that I saw in which the African American man was taking an African American woman on their first date. Yes, horribly, the date was to McDonalds. He proceeds to ask her what she wants from the menu and she says the 20 piece chicken nuggets, which were only $4.99 I believe. The ad then focuses on the man’s thoughts in which he now views her as an even better form of herself (added lighting, hair blowing in the wind) and he says something along the lines of, wow not only is she beautiful she is smart, my kind of woman. At the end, they walk away happily. To me, this will affect both the African American man and the African American woman’s psyche in saying that the man should do the bear minimum to impress the woman and that the woman should be as cheap as possible to get the man to gain further interest in her. Do you think that ads like this affect the African American man’s psyche and make them not want to provide to the best of their ability?
Oolala
@Oolala,
Well, there is an African man, a man of color, in the Old Spice commercial depicted here and in it, he is conducting himself like a gentleman.
But I hear what you're saying and I can't speak to what takes place in Africa, however, here in America, I think the problem you speak of, of African men doing very little as men and then expecting a standing ovation for it. . .I think here in the States that has to do with their upbringing many times.
Because unfortunately, and I don't want to start anything racial here, I'm simply sharing my observations from what I see around me, in my immediate vicinity with regards to this - there is a true breakdown of the family unit, particularly in African American families (as well as in Caucasian, if you ask me).
But in Caucasian families, it seems that even if there's a breakdown of the family unit, many times, the father still plays a role in the child's life (the boy). In many African American families, many of the fathers play less of a role. As a result, what you're left with are many young African American boys . . . that have absolutely no positive male role model in their life.
No male mentor in their life to teach them what it really takes to be a man.
But again, that's not ALL African American families here. But in the poverty stricken areas, you see a lot of that. You see a lot of children, both Caucasian and African American, in poverty stricken areas that have no positive male role model in their life whatsoever.
And when a man, a young boy, has no adult man in his life to be an example of how a man should be, how a man should treat a woman - as an adult, he has no concept of how to behave as a real man should.
And regarding the McDonald's commercial, it may be the "poverty" aspect that they zeroed in on there. And that's terrible if you ask me, if that's the case. But it may be that they made an association between "poverty" and "African Americans" and felt that by showing a positive example of male behavior at a McDonald's (an affordable place to eat) that they felt this was a positive marketing effort.
Tying their product, an economically affordable product, to a targeted audience that they felt was suffering from poverty and unable to afford anything else.
And I sincerely hope that's not the case as I don't like the idea of picking out one race and associating them with poverty. Because where I live, I see poverty, a lot. And I see it in both Caucasian and African American families.
And yes, I think ads such as that can affect a man's psyche - both Caucasian and African American.
Thanks for the great response Mirror. Makes a lot of sense. The family unit in Africa is very strong and most of the men do have their fathers in their lives so maybe that why MOST African men know how to treat women a lot better than SOME African American men.
Oolala
@ Ms. Mirror,
I was able to share this information w/Virgo tonight, and thought I’d share.
We were talking about him coming up, and somehow got on to going out to dinner and the woman paying. (I can’t remember if it was “me” paying, or Virgo was talking about women in general).
Anyway, I explained my new belief of not paying for dates when I go out with a man, and he freaked. He wanted to know where I was getting this new information from; you can imagine his response when I said, “the internet.” Haha
He made the typical case about women in the workforce making the same amount of money, etc. I listened, and then shared my new found knowledge with him.
I can’t remember my words exactly, but I used the information from the article and the discussion board to explain that I have finally realized how my behavior has messed things up in my dating world, and how women’s lib has been wonderful for women’s equality where it should be applied, but not in the dating world.
I explained how women HAVE to go to work these days, confirmed they had to be strong and are leaders at work, but when they come home they want to put that aside and be a woman with their man.
Virgo put up a good fight, but I could slowly see he was absorbing what I was saying. He finally had an “aha” moment when I used Peter’s words to explain that when a man uses his manly skills to take care of a woman, treat her like a lady, show her he appreciates who she is and wants her to choose him over all others, then in the home, she will take care of him. She will use her womanly skills to provide a comfortable home and she will give him the same (if not more) effort to show her appreciation of him.
I explained the cost of the date did not matter -- it could be a $3 sandwich or a sandwich he made from home. It was the behavior of being a man who offers his best to a woman that she will appreciate and respect from a man. I think he got it, or is stewing over it.
You have said in other posts that good men can change with the encouragement of a good woman. After my divorce in my 20’s I swore I would never try to change a man again (I tried so hard with my x-husband -- it doesn’t work). I can honestly say I never tried to change a man again – if it wasn’t working out, I just shut down emotionally and eventually the relationship died a slow painful death.
By becoming equals in our relationship (skills I am learning from disappearing board), Virgo and I are not changing each other, rather, I feel we are changing because of each other. (We’ll see.)
@Gemini50,
And it's a nice, equal balance of power, wouldn't you say? He gets to be a man, you get to be a woman....and hopefully, the two equal halves eventually come together to form the whole :-)
"So in my career, I’m comfortable wearing the pants and assuming a leadership role and exhibiting masculine energy. But in my personal life and in my love relationships, I’m a woman. It’s the one area of my life where I prefer to relax, breath and relinquish control and the lead over to a man. It’s one area of my life where I let a man be a man and let myself be a woman."
ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha we'll see how well that works out
@Anonymous,
Poor L - not done with your freak show yet, eh? Maybe you should stop jealously obsessing over my life and get that sex change that you're apparently longing for instead ;-)
@Ms. Mirror,
You've really pissed some silly bastard off, haven't you? ;)
Poor person can't handle strong, healthy and lovely people supporting themselves, leaving losers behind in the dust to wallow in the results of their actions.
Hey Anonymous Feb 22, 3:52: Listen to some Eric Church, maybe that'll put some hair on your chest.
Or grow up and be part of the conversation -- don't you have anything of value to contribute?
@Gemini50,
Actually, what we have here is a very jealous, insecure female launching a personal attack on me and childishly pulling her friends in on the mix, too, male and female ;-)
Her insecurities cause a deep desire to control, a desire to have the ability to "push people's buttons" as she refers to it.
So ladies, take note. Behaving like a "psycho" only leads to you looking, acting and behaving much like what we've been seeing here on the blog this past week.
NOTE TO SELF, LADIES: Never go "psycho," it's not very becoming and it completely gives you away as insecure, jealous and emotionally unstable, as you can clearly see, LOL ;-)
@MOA and ladies
This may give some insight into why modern dating is going the way it is. Arguments such as who pays, who leads and who takes the masculine role flow from these beliefs(also those like them). A friend explained modern views on the subject to me.
Modern women are supposed to be what they call "Power Women”, they dominate, and they take a masculine role. Not just in career but in life in general. The basic concept here is the view that only women can really be in charge in the modern world. They have the soft skills and the ability to be masculine. These women see testosterone as a poison damaging to society.
In reverse these women expect men to adopt what they call "New Masculinity". Men are now expected to be feminine adopt soft feminine skills and mannerisms. Confidence and maturity is all that is allowed. Men are now expected to talk to other men "as women" do in regards to sexuality, and further they are expected to have comfort being feminine with each other.
There is apparently a rising trend in both areas. More men from 25 up to over 40 are embracing this "New Masculinity". Increased males dressed in feminine fashions, increased male grooming products that were previously mostly for women such as male make up etc. Men now preferring to live with each other rather in "units" rather than making it in the world in the traditional way.
On the female side women are aiming to look and dress as men. A recent survey found that women with male features are seen as more attractive and accepted socially than softer looks. So we actually want women to look like men too? Is that the modern way now? Women now are demanding that men give up a career to stay at home. Nothing wrong with that but it illustrates the point in a changing role IMO. These women expect men to take charge of their appearance as women do and be feminine inside and out. Men are expecting to take the female nurturing role WITH OTHER MEN.
I experienced this first hand when out shopping with my female friend. Now my shoulders are WIDE. Very much too wide for most clothing brands. I fitted an extra large t-shirt and it exploded open on the shoulders completely ripped. I asked one of the store assistants what went wrong with the extra large her reply was "oh men shouldn't be that way now, not how it is, you don't read magazines do you? It’s all about the skinny guy". So I had idea what to say and had to buy the shirt as it was me that damaged it due to being apparently being too big because I don't read what men are supposed to look like. My friend outlined it for me "In modern masculine terms physiques a no longer accepted in that way now”. Right is that so? My friend opposes these views but she admits that’s how society is going. She further pointed out look at movies, women fight; male heroes are the skinny guys. So it's now not acceptable for men to look like men?
I don't know if I'm looking forward to what society is becoming, disagree if you must, but none of this feels natural to me.
@Peter,
LOL, you got me with the skinny jeans look on men. I absolutely DESPISE that little smurf look along with the Justine Bieber haircut. Ugh.
Don't get me wrong, a polished looking man is nice to look at as a woman - but polish yourself AS A MAN - NOT A WOMAN.
I see these men in skinny jeans and I'm like, "Good lord, I bet I could snap him over my knee." LOL ;-)
As for me personally - I prefer my men straight up - as men. I don't want to be walking around with some skinny, tiny little guy that's carrying a man bag and is more worried about his hairstyle than I am.
It's a huge turnoff to me when I see men exhibiting far too much femininity as opposed to capitalizing on their masculinity.
And another point you mentioned is an absolute must for me - broad shoulders. When a man has no upper body that resembles that of a man, I just can't get into it, LOL.
But hey, to each his own. Times they are a changing - and not for the best if you ask me.
@MOA
I'll put it how I have it on the looks issue. I wear Jeans, Boots(not heavy duty steel caps kind) and a fitted muscle t. Its a very simple look, well fitted clothes that shape my build with a mans hair cut not one of the boy kind you see now. Still very much polished military but I do have stubble,not a fan of a smooth shave unless a formal situation demands so. I polish as a man and don't need any designer look to show anything, simple fitted high quality clothes, and my presence do that. I don't feel the need to be completely polished like that but still well polished in what do present.
What annoys me? Jeans down a guys ass and boxers pulled with t tucked into it. Get a belt it's called underwear for a reason, it goes under what you wear LOL. Not put out for me to see LOL.
Hi MOA - I posted this question under the "what does it mean when he..." page but for some reason it never showed up, so I thought I might repost here. If you're in the casual dating stages with a guy but he is only calling/texting to arrange for dates (and nothing else), how can you inspire him to text you more often in between dates to ask about your day/weekend etc?
Or do you let him do that more in his own time?
@Anonymous,
A man needs to move at his own pace as we all do, and you cant make anyone love you or want to be with you.
Keeping that in mind, you can drop hints and guide him. You can tell him that you you rather speak than text and invite him to call. If he still texts, you dont respond to those. You prompt him to call by only making yourself available to phone calls and not texts.
What if the guy's budget is sort of limited? And if the girl is even more financially capable then he is?
@DAA,
As stated in the article...a true gentleman will still want to provide as he realizes that his masculinity is closely associated with this concept. A gentleman would consider it emasculating to permit a woman to provide for him.
Even with a limited budget, two coffees and a pastry can be done for $10 or $15 dollars, two tickets to a movie can be done with $20 and two ice cream cones can be purchased for under $5.
There's really no excuse for a man to not make some sort of effort on the woman's behalf. Particularly if he expects to receive sex and access to your body. You have to give to receive.
A STORY OF LUNCH>>>>>Scorpio me..met a man online had interesting chats for about 10 days and 2 phone calls,and asks for a first meet for coffee..when are you next in the city? Arranged a time 4 or more days after. When we met I had just finished my business matters and he asked me where would I like to go for a coffee...oh anywhere but you know I really feel like a macca's shake cos Im so hungry I replied. Oh no that wont do- wouldnt you rather a gently stirred fried vegies with a little tofu and some green tea? UM ERR...well that does sound delicious, and before I knew it he whisked me away in his car to trendy little place 5 mins away and said do you mind if I order? no noodles I said (Im gluten free) I didnt even see him order?? had a great flirty meal, he sat next to me...they know me here- I always have the same thing..and he must have paid when he got up to get toothpicks. Man what a gentleman, and a typical Cancer in ensuring his companion was well fed and cared for. I was impressed! ...and I left a msg online to say thanks so much for lunch...he left one to invite me to his place to cook for me....I left msg declining-thanks for the invite but that sounds like a setting for a seduction and you know I will not come to your place until I know you a lot better. And then we chatted online the next day and he said,"I knew you were going to say NO...(and a bit later)...well next lunch is your shout"!!! umm he didnt even invite me, and just implied if we were to see each other for a second time....actually for a first real date, I would have to pay. I was taken aback and said well I dont have any money for lunches out atm. He said well its only $20, and I said something like well that is something to think about...and changed the subject. He has told me he has 19 contacts, but only chats to me and one other cos I am interesting (no Im not that gullible).....but apparently not worthy of another $20 lunch, His mood has been dampened by my refusal to go to his place, his online conversation not as fun. What should I do next? I do like him, and he says he likes me, and he has said he doesnt want women who want to jump into bed with him...)no Im not that gullible)
Is he trying to test me- I felt that there were a couple of little tests going on that day. So what is my course of action? Ignore him until he asks me on a real date? Go on chatting if he initiates conversation? Cos Im certainly not paying!
LOVE YA WORK Mirror...dont let the idiots get ya down...hey you have the power to accept a comment or not..why do you let them on YOUR page-just delete them cos we are not interested in idiots putting down your advice. We love you and need you!x WISE OWL
@Wise Owl,
Good for YOU! If this guy is arrogant enough to think that lunch has the same value as access to your body, he's out of his mind, LOL.
I don't think I'd waste my time with this one dear. This is NOT a good sign after the first date. This guy has "bump and dump" written all over him. (i.e. after sex, he'll disappear)
If he can't even invest his time and some gentlemanly behavior into the dating/courtship process - he'll NEVER make any real investment in a relationship. He's a waste of time. It's not about money, you can buy your own damn lunch if you want to. It's about his "willingness" to "invest" - and his behavior is signaling that he's "unwilling" to make any "real" investment in a true relationship.
And yes, he's testing you - testing to see how gullible and controllable you are and whether or not it's going to be easy to manipulate you to get his way here.
Regarding the comments here, yea I know I can zap them and trust me, many times I consider doing just that, LOL. But the thing is, everyone's entitled to their opinion and I don't want to be accused of censorship here. As a result, I publish them - then provide my rebuttal ;-)
If I didn't, next thing ya' know, they'd be showing up here accusing me of only publishing comments that speak in my favor, LOL.
Can't please them all I suppose. And thank you for the support :-)
@ Ms. Mirror,
Ok, I need some help. Virgo is coming in Friday night for 5 days. You know the tug of war we've been having w/power struggle, and I've been very clear with him re: my new behavior of not paying when out on a date.
A couple things I need advice on:
1. He wanted to bet that something I ordered would not be in March 18 as scheduled. He wanted to bet dinner out. (I know the wager was due to my "not paying when out on a date anymore" stance.) I kept telling him I wasn't really interested in the bet, but he insisted, so I played along hoping that my item arrived. Well, he won. My ordered item is not in (and won't be until April). I guess I have to pay this one... damn, live and learn. Or, do I? (He had mentioned once that maybe he'd still pay if he won, and I'm hoping he takes the opportunity to step up and show me he wants to be my man.)
2. We will be going to store to get lobsters and steaks to cook at the house. Do I pay for that? If I pay, am I breaking my rule and setting myself up for a lazy weak man? I really don't want a stand-off at the cash register. Ugh! (I know, what you are ALL thinking (lol). I'm asking myself the same thing: Why am I even doing this with this guy??? And I guess I can answer it too -- because I thought he could turn himself around. But as the day of arrival gets closer, I am starting to freak.)
I have made lasagna, will have all the food he likes/wants, as well as his beverages of choice in the house. For Sunday, I have made up a cool Easter gift (coffee cup w/his initial that I'll fill w/almond kisses and jelly beans w/5 fabulous cigars w/little blue wind up bunny inside... He'll have everything he needs at the house for a comfy relaxing extra-long weekend, how do I "happily and confidently" stand my own when we are out?
We are also planning a trip to a brewery in Boston... How do I hold back and let him pay for admission, etc?
Guilt is my demise -- it has been at the root of giving up my SELF since childhood :( I feel guilty expecting Virgo to pay for anything while visiting here. He is my guest and has the cost of the flight... But if I don't stick to my guns, I feel I will fail myself.
I just know he is going to test me, and this will be "do or die" (for me). I just know it.
thx, and SUPER HUGS! :)
@Gemini 50,
First it'll help to switch gears here..you're perspective. You need to be the observer here..he needs to be the impresser. Don't worry about what he thinks about YOU, worry about what you think about HIM.
This is HIS do or die moment dear...not his.
It's time for him o PROVE he's a man that can, and is willing, to make you happy. This is his test, not yours.
Once you grasp and accept that and you place yourself in that frame of mind, you can hold your word on his silly diner bet. He obviously feels the need to be able to make you grovel here, so give him that one - YOU prove your willingness there.
Next, the steak and lobster..don't reach for your wallet. Test HIM. If he mans up, thank him and show you admire and appreciate that and his willingness to do so. Be very positive and encouraging. In other words, he'll deserve an go stroke for that one...so give him one.
If he doesn't man up there, say nothing, pay half. Don't get angry or emotional, but don't give ego strokes or admiration either. Selfish actions don't deserve positive rewards. So remain quiet, day nothing...and let it sink in with him the reality of the less than admirable impression he made.
There should be no guilt here. YOU gave this man a second chance after HE disappeared and disappointed you once already. YOU are making him lasagna. YOU took the time to be thoughtful and prepare a gift for him. YOU stocked the house with comforts he'll enjoy and YOU opened up your home to a man that's let you down before.
It's a fair and very equal trade off dear. Honestly, he should feel lucky to even be there given his past history here. What the hell do you have to feel guilty about sweetie,LOL? You've shown this man nothing but kindness, forgiveness, attention, compassion and thoughtfulness - AFTER he hurt you.
He's received plenty here, trust me.
This is HIS walk brought he fire dear..not yours. You'll be making up your mind once and for all about this man this weekend. And hats how you look at this ;-)
This stupid auto correct, LOL. "This s HIS walk through the fire...not yours. And that's how you look at this ;-)"
Gesus I hate these things, LOL..."This is HIS do or die moment...not yours."
my ex taurus popped in today..would you ever expect a woman to pay for a date I asked...oh no he said Im from the old school and Im a gentleman, I would always pay. Update to my 1st meet with Cancer man March 24 2013 he has not initiated any online communication this past week since our first date...you are right he knows he wont be getting any dessert from me so he has gone quiet...by the way how on earth do you get the little pic to the side of your comment like MASHAN FEB 13 above. thanks WISE OWL x
@ Ms Mirror
Thx. I will read over and over until it sinks in.
Re:guilt, I was raised on it. Actually told over and over again as a child that I owed my mother for my life. On birthdays was told my mother should get the present. Was threatened to be sent away if I don't behave and worked like the dickens to keep everyone in the family happy.... and thus easy bait for grandfather's sexual abuse.
So, I fight it. And good thing is I am able to self talk me when I recognize it. I can see it, but need to practice tools to stop it. So thx.
Today is last day of invisalign... I m so happy for future!
Sitting in or tho chair now... love to all!
@Wise Owl,
That appears through the creation of a Blogger profile.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2016021_create-blogger-profile.html
This is true. You give a good suggestion for opposite sex that who is going to pick up the entire tab. Women not interested to date again with the man might offer to pick up the entire tab is a good idea. Man is self-esteem creature, they like to pay dinner for women. So what you do at there is to further or terminated the relationship either.
I attempted to post a comment before, but I must have done something wrong. Let me synopsize it.
I am astonished that this discussion is even taking place.
The man pays, always. Period. End of discussion.
Almost.
What are you thinking . . . "gentlemen." She's a lady, not a prostitute. Her favors do not come with the meal. Dear God, if you really think you are owed anything other than the pleasure of her company, why not just offer to pay her for sex and have done with it?
The woman ALWAYS chooses when and upon whom she will bestow her favors.
If you're too cheap to pay for a meal, God help her, IF she's foolish enough to stick around you. And if you think she "owes" you anything, then God help you, for you, Sir, are fast on your way to becoming a cad.
As the old saying goes, if you can't stand up and be the man she needs, then sit down so she can see if there is a real man somewhere behind you.
Dismissed.
@djbuck1,
This is hilarious:
"if you can't stand up and be the man she needs, then sit down so she can see if there is a real man somewhere behind you."
I can't even tell you the horrid stories I've seen here regarding this issue. And it's two fold amazingly enough:
1) Men argue that after women's liberation, it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to provide for them and, in fact, they feel entitled for her to do so (not realizing it signals their lack of masculinity to a woman).
2) I've had many a woman appear on this site to argue their right to. . .well. . .err, act like a man and be the provider, LOL.
Just yesterday, on this post:
http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/09/he-is-not-into-you-relationship-red.html
A woman shared this story in the recent comments there:
"There's a guy I've been dating and on the 3rd date, he joked that he didn't wanna be my sugar daddy, so asked me why don't I pick up the check. So I paid for the both of us even though we shared a meal. Another time, he didn't wanna drive from the suburbs to the city to meet me because he just drove 3 hours yesterday and he has a messed up back. Then I stayed over and we made out but didn't have intercourse, he asked if I wanted . . something for sleep so I mentioned chamomile tea. He said he's too tired to make tea. The next morning he mentioned how me parking in his buildings garage costs $16 and that the train and bus come right to his building. Later he texts me that if I wanna be his only girlfriend that we need to have sex regularly."
Has your jaw hit the floor yet, LOL?
Mine used to when I read those types of stories and accounts of modern male behavior. . . but no more - I see it EVERY SINGLE DAY here. And it turns my stomach.
And believe it or not, she ended the comment with this:
"We have a lot of things in common and have fun together but is he a loser?! Please help!"
She's sure he's a loser, but wants help to keep him.
Sigh.
There are literally hundreds of stories like that here.
@djbuck1,
I meant "She's unsure if he's a loser, and wants help to keep him."
MOA, I think she is sure. She's just ignoring the evidence plainly before her eyes. She wants assurance from someone that what's happening ISN'T happening.
This astonishes me. Women have real power over men. You can manipulate us like we are little children if you've a mind to.
It's amazing that your gender has stopped capitalizing on this. Well . . . some of your gender.
@djbuck1
"The man pays, always. Period. End of discussion."
I am curious. Where did this belief come from for you?
"Dismissed" hmm... powerful without drama. Perfect.
Thank you Gemini 50. Addressing the troops so to speak. ;-)
By the way, I agree wholeheartedly with Peter. "National service" (i.e. the draft) never should have ended. I look at some of the guys coming up below me in my civilian job. They're bright and well intentioned, but discipline is spotty,and they have no idea with respect to what constitutes leadership.
Gemini 50, in answer to your question, I would say the (now dying) traditional culture, which traces its roots in this area back to the "courtly love" of the Middle Ages, reinforced by my Father and later by my training as an Officer and Gentleman. I suspect that it may also be instinctive/bred in.
I provide a basic necessity (food). This is primal. I expect nothing but the pleasure of her company (and women are wonderful to be with-- well-- most of the time). I acknowledge her power of choice, which she has anyway. She recognizes that, and there is mutual respect. I await her choice. You may be surprised how quickly that happens.
Every woman in touch with her real nature wants her Knight. Don't think for one minute they don't. They don't have to say it. Just watch how they react to a gentleman.
If I have wanted a woman in my life, it has been easy to attract one. I just have to be who I am. My gender is making it incredibly easy for men like me to find mates.
By the way, thanks guys. You just keep right on with your behavior, too. And watch what doesn't happen.
Fellas (and Ladies),
Pay heed to this man's words:
"My gender is making it incredibly easy for men like me to find mates.
By the way, thanks guys. You just keep right on with your behavior, too. And watch what doesn't happen."
Translation: All of the cavemen out there that are using "pick up" tactics and treating women poorly - are only making it easier for true gentleman to win women away from you ;-)
And on that note, the "pick up" note (yea, I know all of you guys from the "pick up" forums are here, I'm not an idiot). . .realize this. Realize what your membership to a "pick up" forum says about you to a woman. It says this:
1) I cannot meet a woman based solely on who I am as a man. Instead I need to use manipulation tactics to get a woman.
2) I do not feel like a man, I feel like a little boy. As a result, I need to go about dating as if I'm a little boy playing a game and as such, I treat dating like a sport, a competition, and not like real life.
3) I'm not a man to be taken seriously. I'm looking to be a "pick up" artist, a cartoon character of sorts that's a layer shooting only to get laid. I'm not a man looking for a relationship.
4) I fail so miserably at being a man that I feel the need to use cheesy tactics to get a woman.
All of that energy some of you men put into using tactics and tips and manipulation to get women? You're complicating things.
All you need to do is:
1) Talk to a woman
2) Treat her well
3) Take her to dinner/drinks and make her feel special
4) Compliment her
5) Call her
6) Ask her on dates
That's it guys. It's really that simple.
Fellas (and Ladies),
I forgot, there's one more to add to the list of what membership to a "pick up" forum says to a woman:
5) I lack confidence. I am insecure. I try to overcompensate for this by the use of manipulative tactics and false bravado when dating.
MOA, one of the comments from gentlewomen I have heard over and over? "No man has ever treated me like this before." Unspoken on my part: "You're dating the wrong males-- and that's your choice."
MOA, I'll add one more to your list 6. "Listen to her."
The knee jerk male reaction is to dismiss what a woman says as so much yik-yak. But I am surprised (and sometimes astonished) at how much a woman will tell you, even on a first date.
Now granted, I'm not a predator, and I think I inspire trust, but good heavens. She gives you a road-map of likes, dislikes, experiences good and bad, how she "sees" things, and (frankly) the all-important Red Flags, if any. And unless you are an inert dolt, her body language, tone and diction is a constant stream of information about how she perceives YOU.
Now, if all you want is to bed her, I suppose this information is irrelevant, though a real predator will use it to ingratiate himself. Unfortunately.
But if you like women (which I do), they are very, very interesting to listen to. And that's how you learn about them. But I guess that's too much trouble.
@djbuck1
"one of the comments from gentlewomen I have heard over and over? "No man has ever treated me like this before." Unspoken on my part: "You're dating the wrong males-- and that's your choice."
I've had this exact experience and this exact thing happen to me and what goes through my head is the same. However this tends not to come from ladies my age that I've dated. I've had it from older ladies I've dated.
Women my age tend not to see being a Gentlemen as something good. I've had talks with MOA before about women finding romance "weird". The reaction has been negative from a few ladies around my age that I've dated. Being a Gentleman doesn't seem to go down well in my age group as I've said. They associate it with a "nice boy" kind of image.
Peter, I have to admit that I am now out of my depth. The notion that women would find romance weird is utterly alien to me. So what do they want? Bad boys? "Buddies?" Hook ups? What?
@ djbuck1 and Peter,
Love reading your stuff... keep it coming! :)
And thank you for responding to my question above djbuck1.
@Peter, Gemini 50 and djbuck1,
LOL, Peter and I have had this discussion and I, as you djbuck1, am baffled by it every single time I hear it.
The only explanation I can offer would be this. The younger girls haven't been sh*t on enough by men yet. I hate to say it, but there it is, LOL.
These younger generations are blurring the lines. They think hooking up is dating. They think one night stands lead to long term relationships. They think being ignorant is being cool. They think being macho is being masculine. They think being a loose woman will get a man to like you. They think it's okay for a woman to act like a man and they don't understand that there are repercussions in love and from sex (lifetime scars that develop from reckless, careless behavior). They're focused more on having a good time and less on "bigger picture" concepts such as self respect, dignity and integrity.
Basically, some of these younger women (and men) haven't been in the trenches long enough to realize they want and deserve more.
I was in a similar place myself once. Living willy-nilly, out running around and having a good time. Then I got my heart broken. Then it was broken again - and again. Then years later I finally realized that that string of broken hearts changed me as a woman. And the broken hearts were a result of careless, reckless behavior in love and sex (on the part of the men I was involved with). And I, as a woman, had not realized my value yet at that time.
But once you see those repercussions from love and sex, you suddenly realize it's not all fun and games. It's serious stuff with serious consequences. (Sometimes those consequences being pregnancies, babies and the birth of children.)
As a result, you begin wanting and demanding more for yourself. Women begin valuing themselves more and men begin wanting to be more like real men.
So that's my best guess here for this somewhat new epidemic in younger generations. They're just REALLY young, mentally, emotionally, physically - just really very young. They don't value themselves yet and as a result, they don't value the things that are truly important in life - like respect, kindness, generosity, dignity, integrity, honesty - and treating one another well.
They're simply too young to see the value in it. But I imagine someday, with age, that will ALL change.
BUT I will say this. Even back some 20 years ago in my younger days - men took me on dates, bought me flowers, paid for dinners and made kind gestures that made me feel special and I, as a woman, appreciated it. Generation X wasn't a perfect generation, but we weren't quite as bad as the Millennials and Gen Y either, LOL.
@djbuck1
That situation is why I only date women 40 years old and above. There have been a few cases I talked about with MOA where romance with a woman around my age has created a negative reaction. There happens to be one lady who has commented here and observes the site who was one of those ladies I dated. I took her on a date and was a perfect gentleman. I even explained to MOA what happened on the date. However it would seem that this created some form of very strong negative reaction. She thought it was weird and wrong for a man to take the lead as a gentleman. She was a bit older then me too which is why the limit for me is set 40 and higher.
This is like listening to a series of reports of disaster coming back from the front to the command post over the radio. The senior officers stand around asking,"Are they exaggerating, or is it really that bad." Then you see the medevacs going by . . .
If I was to date anyone under 40 ... well, I am sure there is a law against it. So I can't comment. Peter, I feel for you. Really.
Reflecting on MoA's remarks, I accept them as they are well thought out, based on experience and observation, and are a rational explanation.
The only edit I would like to see to this great article is to remove the James Bond example. James Bond did not "romance" women. It's an incredibly misogynistic series and hardly one that should be held up to men as an example of a gentleman. He loves 'em and leaves 'em without so much as a backward glance. His character is built around having no emotional attachment to the women in his life. In one movie with P*ssy Galore he practically rapes her until suddenly she starts "liking" it and in the latest installment **SPOILER ALERT: stop reading now if you haven't seen it!** the women states herself to be a sex trafficking victim so naturally while she's in the shower he stealthily goes into her apartment uninvited and welcomes himself into her shower to "assert his masculinity" in the most definite of ways. Finally, later when she is shot to death and spills some whiskey collapsing, he glances at her body and says "damn, what a waste of great whiskey." JB looks great in a suit, but he is no gentleman. Great assessment of how women feel about those so-called "Pick Up Artists" btw.
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