"Mirror, Mirror on the wall . . . where did he go? And why hasn't he called?"

The Benefits Of Courtship When Dating





Things sure have changed. These days, there’s a lot of “blurring the lines” between what was traditionally referred to as dating (courtship) and what is now commonly referred to as hooking up (brief casual sexual affair).

These are two entirely different things folks. Dating and courtship have a much greater chance of leading to a long term relationship. Hooking up is not dating and has much lower chances of success. As a matter of fact, the longest relationship, correction “arrangement,” that you can expect from a hook up is approximately 3 months – and that’s really pushing the maximum amount of time. More often than not, hooking up tends to amount to no more than a two week, to one month, long casual affair – otherwise known as a fling.

Don’t confuse the two. They are entirely different processes that will lead to entirely different outcomes.

There are reasons that Mother Nature invented the courtship process. It serves a very definitive purpose and a very important one at that – for both parties involved. You see, when the courtship process is taking place, there’s a lot of non-verbal communication taking place. There’s a lot going on behind the scenes subconsciously and a lot of information is being transmitted via behavior, gestures, body language, unspoken language and the subtle dynamics of feminine versus masculine that ultimately result in the ability to prove oneself worthy as a potential long term mate.

Let’s explore, shall we?

Traditional Dating: The Benefits Of The Courtship Phase


Traditional dating, otherwise known as the courtship phase, is a concept that refers to a process that involves traditional gender roles when it comes to male versus female – masculine versus feminine energy. It is a process that is traditionally done with the male taking the lead, masculine role – that of “impressing” - and the woman taking the submissive, feminine role – that of “observing.” And it’s also the chosen process of the true gentleman. (Punks, players and insecure men prefer the much easier hook up method which grants instant gratification to selfish needs and feeds ego. )

The courtship process involves what could commonly be referred to as a mating ritual. Just like in nature, when you see colorful male birds, puffing their feathers, dancing in front of a female bird, attempting to win her over in an attempt to prove himself worthy of successfully mating with her – that’s how the courtship process works.

The male initiates the courtship and during the early phase, he attempts to impress the woman. He makes special gestures meant just for her and he shows her that he is a good provider, that he is masculine, and that his leadership is to be trusted. If the woman happens to earn more money, a true gentleman still feels it’s important to prove himself worthy in the early stages of the courtship process.

Much the same way the male Satin Bowerbird seen here builds a fortress of seduction as a courtship display to attract a female mate. It’s not a nest, it’s a bower – a bachelor’s “play” pad. All of the efforts placed into the construction of this bachelor pad are intended for one sole purpose – to mate. (Men, there’s a lesson from Mother Nature here: Effort (and Romance) = Successful Mating. )

Male bowerbirds instinctively know that female bowerbirds are attracted to the color blue. As a result, blue objects tend to be the chosen trinkets gathered and presented as gifts, to adorn the seduction pad to lure the female bowerbird into it.

However, the female bowerbird doesn’t simply enter the first male bowerbird’s seduction pad that she comes across. Oh no. The female bowerbird visits all of the other male bowerbird’s seduction pads in her locale before stepping into any one of them to mate.

Is the female bowerbird a gold digger? Is she seeking a rich male bowerbird?

No. She’s seeking a good mate – one worthy of her attention and the luxury of mating. Because you see, in Mother Nature, not every male is privileged enough to mate. The mere fact that male genitalia are carried does not grant males the privilege to mate in nature. Male mating rights must be earned. Female mating rights are granted because females possess the ability to give the gift of life. (Which is why you don’t jump into bed with any man that comes along, ladies. Because he could end up the father of your child. It’s a fact, females have much more at risk when mating.)

A female bowerbird instinctively knows that a male bowerbird’s willingness to go the extra mile during the courtship phase signals him as a male that’s earned the mating privilege. And she will not enter the seduction pad until she’s reviewed all of the other male bowerbird options in her locale and she’s decided that this male bowerbird - is the one worthy of mating privileges.

She’s a smart cookie. She knows that a man’s willingness to provide is closely associated with his masculinity. A male bowerbird that falls short on his courtship display or the building of his seduction pad doesn’t get to mate – because the female bowerbird doesn’t feel he’s the best male representation of her species. And yes, female bowerbirds will even walk away from a male bowerbird seduction pad that includes a dollar bill (no joke, male bowerbirds have even stolen money as trinkets to include in their seduction pad displays).

To the female bowerbird, it’s not about money. It’s about the male’s willingness to provide for her and to properly earn the privilege of mating. The concept she’s focusing on is the male’s willingness to prove himself worthy of mating - not his monetary value.

It Amounts To A Comparable Difference: Provider And Leader Versus Non-Provider And Lazy




Imagine a man that’s found himself unemployed and out of work. A man that may be broke but at heart, has a “willingness” to be a good provider, to prove himself worthy and to do what he must do to provide for his mate and his family. We’ll call him Man A.

Now imagine a man in the same exact situation only this man lacks a “willingness” to be a good provider. We’ll call him Man B. Now, take those two men, each in the same exact situation, and let’s take a close look at the vast difference in ultimate outcome that results from each.

Man A: The Provider Who’s A Leader

Man A, the guy who is broke but has a willingness to be a good provider, will do whatever he can to provide. If it means cutting grass in the neighborhood, to doing odd jobs for family or neighbors, to taking a lower paying job just to keep food on the table – he will do it. He will man up and do whatever needs to be done to fulfill his male role, that of provider, and to prove himself a worthy mate.

As a result, Man A’s mate becomes increasingly impressed with how hard her man works to provide for his family. Her respect for him increases daily and she becomes very supportive and nurturing of him, encouraging him to continue to make forward progress and to be the best version of himself he can be. Man A’s efforts and willingness to provide keep the bond between them tight and their support of one another becomes the glue that keeps them together as a family unit.

Man B: The Non-Provider Who Is Lazy

Man B, however, is a different story. Man B sits on the sofa all day long doing nothing but making excuses for himself. Man B becomes resentful of the burden his mate and his family represent. He becomes difficult to speak to, he begins to distance himself from his mate and his family and he does nothing to improve his situation. Rather, he looks to his mate and he places the responsibility to provide squarely on her shoulders. As a result, Man B’s mate begins losing respect for him as a man, begins viewing him as a less worthy mate, and finds it increasingly difficult to be supportive and nurturing of him. Man B’s lack of effort and willingness to provide have caused a huge rift to appear in the bond between him and his mate and their support of one another begins to deteriorate, resulting in the ultimate breakdown of the family unit.

That’s the difference folks. It’s not about money, it’s about willingness, manhood and worth. And I imagine that many of the women reading this can relate – and would prefer to choose Man A over Man B as a long term mate. And it’s the courtship process that reveals a man’s willingness to take the lead role of provider. Unless you’d like to see Man B sitting on your sofa, resentful and unapproachable, I’d suggest using traditional dating and the courtship process as the path to a meaningful, happy, healthy, mutually successful long term relationship – for men and women both.

Because we can easily reverse the above roles, so let’s explore that for a moment.

It Works Both Ways: Nurturer And Supporter Versus Controlling And Demanding


Imagine a woman that’s an independent modern day woman. We’ll call her Woman A. She’s a woman that, regardless of her personal situation, is “willing” to fulfill her natural gender role of nurturer and supporter.

Now imagine a woman in the same exact situation only this woman lacks a “willingness” to be a nurturer and supporter, rather she prefers the lead role. We’ll call her Woman B. Now, take those two women, each in the same exact situation, and let’s take a close look at the vast difference in ultimate outcome that results from each.

Woman A: Nurturer And Supporter

Woman A is a woman that may or may not have money of her own, but at heart, has a willingness to comfortably fall into her natural role of supporter, nurturer. She is supportive, warm and nurturing (feminine). Unfortunately, her mate has found himself unemployed. However, Woman A, being the supportive, nurturing, feminine type begins to act like a cheerleader of sorts to her man. Encouraging him to be the best man he can be. Regardless of his lack of income, Woman A knows that if she fails to be the supportive force here, she will fail her mate and prove herself unworthy of him. She encourages her mate to push forward and through her nurturing support, her man feels more empowered as a man, assured that his mate is behind him 100%, and it is this support that compels him to successfully find employment in one form or another.

As a result, the man is forever grateful of the supportive, loving, nurturing effect Woman A’s presence brings into his life. She has proved a worthy mate. He knows that regardless of what happens, Woman A is there. She’s not going anywhere and she will continue to support her man in his endeavors. And it’s this reassurance and support that is received from Woman A that becomes the driving force for the man to rise and be the best man he can be. As a result, their bond is strengthened and it is her support and encouragement that becomes the ties that bind, keeping the family unit intact.

Woman B: Non-Nurturer, Controlling And Demanding

Woman B, however, is a different story. Woman B may or may not have money of her own, but at heart, she is “unwilling” to fall into her natural role of supporter and nurturer (feminine). Rather, Woman B is the opposite – she is demanding and controlling (masculine). Unfortunately, her mate has found himself unemployed. And Woman B, failing to be the supportive nurturing feminine type begins to act like a tyrant. She fails to encourage her man and to support him in any way. She fails to prove herself a worthy mate and fails to realize that she has a role here to play. She feels it necessary to emasculate the man, believing that negative reinforcement will somehow have a positive effect. She begins to point out his shortcomings and his current inability to provide. She fails her mate as a woman. Her emasculating comments and her tyrannical dictator-type control, her masculine energy, begins to outweigh that of her man’s and her man begins to feel like much less of a man through her eyes. Her lack of encouragement and support combined with her constant demands fails to compel the man to successfully find employment in one form or another.

As a result, the man becomes resentful of her oppression and begins to view her as unworthy. He feels stifled as a man, he feels weak and powerless. She effectively removes all of the things necessary for his success from the equation (freedom and power). Woman B’s man knows that regardless of what happens, Woman B will not be there for him and he will be unable to please her. He knows she will leave him and never fulfill her natural role of supporter and nurturer. And it’s this fear and oppression that is created by Woman B that becomes the destructive force in the relationship, thus resulting in Woman B’s man becoming increasingly unwilling to fulfill his natural role of provider. As a result, neither is any longer “willing” and their bond is broken and it is her lack of encouragement and support that becomes the wrecking ball that destroys the family unit.

There’s Much To Be Learned From The Ways Of Mother Nature


In Mother Nature, courtship rituals abound – and have remained since the dawn of time. It is the courtship ritual that helps both parties to learn what they can expect from the other and prove their worth to one another, displaying what each can contribute and bring to the table. It is the courtship ritual that reveals both parties “willingness” to fall into their natural gender roles.

What can speculatively be gleaned from the examples above is this. A man that fails to be a good provider in the early stages of dating will fail to be a good provider during the latter stages of a relationship - when it’s needed most. A man that fails to prove himself worthy in the early stages will prove himself unworthy in the latter stages. A woman that fails to be a good nurturer and supporter in the early stages of dating, will fail to be a good nurturer and supporter during the latter stages of a relationship - when it’s needed most. A woman that fails to prove herself worthy in the early stages will prove herself unworthy in the latter stages.

Get what I’m throwing down, folks? You feel me?

The courtship process serves a purpose folks, for men and women both. Skip over it and you’re not going to have a clue as to what you’re truly going to get in the end – until it’s too late. Perform the courtship ritual miserably or incorrectly, and you signal yourself an unworthy mate.

These are primal, biological concepts that are deeply ingrained in mankind. They haven’t changed in eons and they aren’t going to change anytime soon. Men look for a woman to be a good supporter and nurturer (feminine) – one that will help them achieve success and become the best man they can be. Every good man wants a good woman by his side and you’ve all probably heard the old saying, “Behind every good man is a good woman.”

And women look for a man to be a good provider (masculine) – one that is willing to do whatever is necessary under any circumstance, regardless of monetary worth, to provide and care for his family in order to become the best man he can be and to have a woman by his side that is a reflection of himself – the best woman she can be.

Conclusion: Follow Your Chosen Path




The above scenarios are simply that – possible scenarios that can potentially develop from the multitude of unspoken dynamics that take place within relationships. They were simply meant to be used as a demonstration of the “energy” exchange that takes place in relationships (masculine versus feminine).

They were also meant to show you how an individual’s behavior in the early stages of dating can translate into similar behavior later on down the line - thus, reinforcing the importance of noticing, not overlooking, red flags. And reinforcing the benefits of the courtship phase when dating.

The point is: Following the rules of Mother Nature and doing the work will reap you the greatest rewards - rewards that lead to ultimate success, happiness and fulfillment within relationships. Take the easy way out, take the shortcut and the route of the hook up – and you will fail time and time again to obtain happiness and fulfillment.

A hook up has higher odds of leading to a brief affair. A courtship has higher odds of leading to a long term relationship and also provides you valuable insights into the individual you’re dating. Thus granting you a peek at the “big picture,” what life with this individual would be like, should a relationship begin to develop.

It’s all in what you want folks, either a brief fling with a person you hardly know that leaves you feeling confused and used or a long term relationship with someone you’ve taken the time to get to know that leaves you feeling fulfilled and secure – so chose your path wisely and proceed accordingly.

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105 Comments:

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA, thank you for this article. It feels empowering to know what the courtship process should look like and what the roles are meant to be. I was raised in a family where my father was an example of Man B and my mother Woman B. Consequently, I feel that I was exposed to a distorted view of a family model for years, which still continues. My goal is to have a happy and healthy family unit one day and to be an example of Woman A. What can I do to fill myself up with the right views and values about how to be a supportive nurturer - apart from reading your blog :) ? Should I keep contact with my parents to minimum, so that I don't get soaked with the negative vibe? I feel like I sometimes do certain negative things when dealing with men (like controlling or complaining) unconsciously because I witnessed my mother behaving this way. Please help me find ideas on how to unlearn these. I very much appreciate your views and help. Thank you in anticipation. Kind regards.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
I understand that learned patterns from upbringing come into play. And I think the best thing you can do for yourself is learn how to separate the good guys from the bad. Because you see, a bad guy like man B, he'll bring out the worst in you, not the best.

A good guy, like man A, will bring out the best in you. You won't feel compelled to become woman B if your with man A. See what I mean?

Because energy "feeds" off of similar energy. Just like with your parents. Your dad being man B, brought out the woman B side of your mom. And your mom being woman B, brought out the man B side of your father. The end result was a vicious energy cycle taking place...negativity feeding negativity...that created more negativity.

So I think a good man would help to bury the woman B side of your personality. Because if you have a good man like man A, there's no need to become woman B ;-)

Also, I think it'd help you, when you feel woman B coming to the surface inside you, to stop and recognize who's in control there - woman B. if you're conscious of her presence inside you, and you learn to recognize her, I think you'll be better equipped to deal with her when she arrives, LOL.

If you find a man that is a good man, one that is supportive and nurturing of you and willing to go the extra mile for you, he'll bring out your woman A side. So filtering out the men in your life carefully, and only permitting the worthy ones to be a part of it...will solve the bulk of your inner turmoil :-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks for this advice- it makes things much clearer! I'll work on emitting happy energy to attract a good man.

You made me realize that the previous guy I dated was in fact a bad guy who brought out the worst in me, and I blamed myself for being negative and accepted it as my fault, rather than a response to his selfish behavior.

Now I know that I haven't been selective enough.But after reading your advice, I feel much more confident that next time I'll get it right :) Thanks MOA!!

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA, first of all, let me thank you for having this blog. I really respect your advice, and right now, I need it!

I met a guy (Aquarius) on a social networking site three weeks ago, and I really like him. He’s creative, funny, and kind of shy and geeky (just how I like ‘um).

While it’s obvious that he likes me too, he doesn’t come on strong sexually like guys usually do. He does the little gentlemanly things, and he makes me feel so good when I’m with him. I can never predict his next move, and I’m captivated.

We’ve been on a few dates now, and in the beginning, everything was good. But I’ve noticed, he doesn’t really put as much into the courtship as I’d like (no flowers, not a lot of romance, doesn’t put much thought into dates).

Also, he’s started to pull back. He takes HOURS to reply to my texts. There have been times where I’ve texted him in the morning, and he wouldn’t get back to me till 9pm or later.

He does work a lot (he’s working fulltime and starting a business), but still, I’m sure he gets a lunch break, and there have been times where he logged into the site we met on but didn’t text me.

Rewind to four days ago – I’d already met up with him the day before, and he asked to see me again. I said yes (ugh). When he arrived, I noticed he was acting a bit distant and aloof, but I didn’t say anything about it. We went out to eat & didn’t really converse much throughout the meal.

Afterwards, we went back to my place. We were cuddling and kissing on the couch, and after about an hour, he gets a call.

I don’t know what was said (he’s from another country & was speaking in his native language), but when he hung up, he said, “I gotta go.” No explanation, nothing, just “I gotta go, I forgot, I promised my friend something.”

This threw me completely for a loop. I was so taken aback, I did act out a little bit and he knew I was upset.

He did apologize to me at the time, and promised to come back that night (I declined), but it left a sour taste in my mouth. I’ve been ignoring most of his texts and giving him short, neutral replies when he does write.

He asked if I was mad at him, I said no, I’ve been busy, etc. He then said he missed me & asked if I wanted to go out the next day, I said I already had plans, but told him I was free next week.

He agreed and we’ve agreed to meet next week on Mon, but it was only after I agreed did I realize that he should have made some specific plans instead of playing his “let’s just do whatever” game again.

I wish I’d found this site sooner, because I’ve already made waaaay too many mistakes with this guy, and I am kicking myself! I’ve agreed to last minute dates and vague plans, been too giddy about him, texting him way too much and seconds after he wrote, being too available, and I’ve offered to help pay for dates. He always would turn me down, but the last time, he accepted!

He’s only been in the US for a few years, so I let my guard down a bit, rationalizing that “he’s not like men in the US,” and blaming blatant bad behavior on “cultural differences.” Yeah I know, slap me!

I really want to see where this goes, but I think I’ve let him get too comfortable. I’m wondering if you think I can do some damage control and get this back on the right track? How do I let him know that he should be putting more effort into planning our time together? And he texts all the time and rarely calls, what’s up with that?

Thanks so much for taking the time to read and respond to this!

Confused Capricorn

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Confused Capricorn,
Well, first of all, I'd suggest that you no longer contact him. Let HIM contact you. It's the only way for a woman to know that a man is genuinely interested. (At least during the courtship period. Once a man has asked you for a commitment or if he's contacting you regularly for an extended period of time and proving he's genuinely interested, then you can begin to initiate communication - a bit.)

Next, I would not always make myself available to a man that's behaving this way towards a woman. (He's taking you for granted.) When a man takes a woman for granted, she should not always make herself available to him. Instead, she should make him work at it a bit (to prove himself).

And with him texting and not calling, I'd suggest you invite him to call. When he texts, saying something like, "I'd love to talk, but I'm busy right now. But I'll be around later today, gimmie' a call this evening."

And if he texts, don't respond - until he calls.

Regarding the dates and him not having any plan in place, before you accept the date, say something like, "What did you have in mind? What are we going to do?"

If he says, "I don't know" then you say, "Well let me know what you've decided and we'll go from there." If he says, "What would you like to do" then you tell him. Say, "I'd like to go to ____ for dinner or I'd like to _____."

Before agreeing to anything, make sure you press him a bit about WHAT it is that he intends for you both to do.

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA, thanks so much for your advice. It really helps to have another perspective when dealing with relationships, because it can be hard to be objective when you’re right in the middle of it.

After the last text exchange I had with Aquarius, where he’d asked if I was upset, I didn’t hear from him for two days. I did feel a bit bad because that was the first time he'd gone more than 24 hours without contacting me, but I decided to keep busy and continue living my life. I’ve been talking to two other guys that I’m interested in dating, because I realized I’d already invested too much of myself in this dude who hasn’t given me anything!

I accidentally pocket-texted him a blank text message, and a few minutes later, he called, sounding really happy and asking why I sent him a blank text. I played it cool and jokingly said “you don’t have to make up excuses to call me.” Ha!

He was asking where I’d been & saying he missed me, I told him I’d been busy etc. I followed your advice and insisted that he make plans for our date. He started enthusiastically throwing all of these ideas out there, and we finally decided to go to a museum I’ve wanted to visit for a while.

When he came to pick me up, he showed up with flowers and a really thoughtful gift that I was rather impressed by (I’d call it a grand gesture), and the date we went on was the best by far. I got to see his romantic side, and he really went out of his way to make everything special for me. It was a complete 180 from how he was acting last time. I felt like he was finally treating me like someone who is important to him.

My demeanor was different also. I’ve done some research on Aquarius men, and they like freedom to do their own thing. I had to consciously quell my Capricorn tendency to be aggressive and let my femininity shine.

So instead of acting all clingy and smitten by him, I was sweet, but slightly aloof. I had fun wandering off and watching him chase me around when he noticed I wasn’t standing there. He was so much more affectionate and attentive when I ignored him a little and let him pursue me.

This is honestly the first time in my life that I’ve ever dated “properly.” In college, I was the “chill at the house” girl and had a few mediocre relationships that ended badly. I got frustrated with my bad luck, so I stopped dating after I graduated and focused on my career.

Before I started dating again, I read both of Sherry Argov’s “Bitches” books. I couldn’t believe how many mistakes I’d made, and I’d never really been “courted” by a guy before - I was making it WAY too easy for them. I wondered how my friends were getting flowers and romantic dinners, and I’d be lucky to get Chinese takeout and Blockbuster.

Self esteem issues were a big part of it, I just figured I’d scare them away if I insisted that they work harder.

But not anymore, my thinking is, if I’m not worth his effort, then he isn’t worth my time! Amazing how much we can learn from doing a little birdwatching!

Thanks again for your help!
Confused Capricorn

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Confused Capricorn,
Dont ever forget dear - youre worth it. You are worth it.

Every woman desrves to be appreciated like that...and let me tell you, every man deep down inside...loves the feeling it gives them too. If more of them would just do it, theyd realize the benefits.

I guarantee you sweetie...hes feeling very manly and proud of himself right now. And its your job as a woman to lift him up for that and encourage him, appreciate him back. Create that healthy, positive flow of energy between the two of you...and it will become a sustainable life giving force that "feeds" the relationship.

Youll both become addicted to the wonderful feelings it generates ;-)

Dont expect too much...but dont settle for less than you deserve.

Sista'Taurus said...

@Moa

Thank you for another inspiring post.I especially loved the bowerbird example.I had to giggle at the little pad of seduction and scattered BLUE trinkets/petals-AMAZING!

It's really that simple-gender roles.Very clear associations and I hope no one is still left confused or in doubt after this wonderful read.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Sista' Taurus,
Yep, it's really that simple - gender roles. Mother Nature assigned them eons ago and they still exist to this day. Although many things have changed in modern times, when you boil it down to it's base form, it all leads right back to these very primal concepts deeply ingrained within mankind.

As humans, we are part of Mother Nature - part of the natural cycle of things. When we deviate from those natural cycles, we deviate from our path and lose our way.

Follow the natural order of things, the path that Mother Nature has provided - and you will see time and time again that it proves itself to be relevant - even in these modern times.

You can also take a natural example of a courtship and dating/mating ritual from deer. Every year, male deer fall into what is known as "the rut." This is the time of year when females are in heat and the males sense it and are fighting for mating rights.

Because again, in Mother Nature, not every male is granted the right to mate. As a result, the male dear take to fighting with one another, battling with horns locked and kicking one another - in front of groups of female deer, doe. And it is the witnessing of this ritual, this warlike behavior between the males, that grants the winner the luxury of mating (impressing).

And it is the female (observer), the female deer, that ultimately decides upon the chosen mate:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130130111920.htm

We as humans are mammals. And in nature, mating rituals and courtship displays are a natural part of the mating experience :-)

The problem is, nowadays, many males, not all but many, fail to realize their natural role (leader, impressor) and many females fail to realize their natural role as well (submissive, observer).

And it's the main reason why males and females nowadays are fumbling around in the dark with one another - unable to understand each other and unable to perform the natural gender roles that will/would ultimately bring them together and grant them happiness and success when dating.

Never stray from Mother Nature's path. She's one of the greatest teachers in this universe :-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Sista' Taurus,
And to answer your question on the disappearing man post about whether or not I'm "sensual" about things and if I'm attracted to "natural" things as is a Taurus tendency. . .as you can see, the answer to that is yes, LOL.

I take a very natural approach to all things in life and I have a strong aversion to anything that is "unnatural" in any way. I too enjoy soft fabrics, smells, touch and anything related with the 5 senses.

I do this in my home often when decorating as I consider it my sanctuary. As a result, it has to be natural and appealing to the senses. Comforting colors, textures, scents, lighting, etc.

Friends sometimes don't understand it, but then when they enter my home, they often remark about how much they love it and feel very comfortable in it and they often remark about how something smells good there - I keep wax tarts burning in warmers in my home often, LOL ;-)

Sista'Taurus said...

@Moa

Haha,isn't that awesome though,how us being ruled by Venus translates into our lives like that?I too have made my house into a sanctuary,I love everything natural and have an innate aversion towards anything artificial.

I actually only dyed my hair once and do not even get fake nails,lashes,nothing.My home is white at its base with earthy tones all over.Now that I look around,it looks like a hobbit's house LOL..I absolutely love the best of everything,it's not about brands but about quality..if it feels good to the touch,I have to own it.I'm no snob,I just love good things.

Guess there is something to astrology/mythology after all :)

Thank you for your answers!Looking forward to more topics like this.

I don't know if it's because I've really been on a self awareness path and trying to digest all you share here,but I really have gained clarity.I mean,from now on,if I see a man behaving unmanly,I will cut him right there,in the beginning stages.No need to delve deeper,looking for his 'missing' manliness lol.And that will save me so much drama!I don't know but it really makes sense to me now as I've accepted that it is what it is.I am a woman and they are the men.I will act like a woman and they either deliver or they get nothing.SIMPLE!

Alana said...

MOA -

I know I just posted on the other page but thought this might be a more appropriate place for this question. :)

One of my new suitors seems really sweet - puts a lot of effort into dates, does a lot of research into restaurants that he thinks I'd like, books me in advance etc. We've only been on 3 dates so still very early days, but occasionally he would text me to tell me weird and bizarre things about his day etc.

The ONLY thing that bothers me about this guy is that he doesn't always return texts when I reply - or sometimes does so say 9 hours later or even a day or two later.

Considering that this is the phase where he should be proving himself, should I say something/point it out? I've experimented by doing the same to him myself, or even not replied to the odd text, but it doesn't have a huge impact - still slow. Either he just doesn't check his phone very often or something.

What do you think?

-Alana

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Alana,
"Should I say something/point it out?"

No dear. Actions, not words ;-)

You use a technique that's called behavioral mirroring - and you begin to mirror his behavior. So if he takes 9 hours to reply, you take 9 hours to reply. If he doesn't reply to one, you don't reply to the next. If he takes 3 hours to reply, you take 3 hours to respond.

Because if he's doing this to you right now, it's perfectly acceptable for you to mirror that behavior. That's how you create balance, keep things fair (someone can't complain when they're doing the same thing ;-), and that's how you let him know that you're world does not exist around him right now - and if he wants it to, he needs to step up his game a bit.

"I've experimented by doing the same to him myself, or even not replied to the odd text, but it doesn't have a huge impact - still slow."

Doesn't matter, keep doing it. Because as things progress, eventually, this will matter to him and he'll begin to notice the pattern. He'll make the connection that he's doing it to you - and he'll cease doing so.

In otherwords, eventually he may want more of your attention. And he'll realize that if/when he does - he'll need to give you his attention if he wants yours in return.

Alana said...

@MOA

OK, let's see how this works out then. Thanks very much for the advice!

-Alana

Alana said...

@MOA,

Sorry to rehash this again, but about this mirroring technique - wouldn't he figure out that I'm playing games?

The longer we do this, the more I worry that we are both just texting each other every other day now (ie he texts me today, I text him tomorrow, he texts back the following day etc)...

-Alana

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Alana,
It's not a game dear. It's creating a healthy balance and teaching consequence via action. When your dog pees on the floor, you don't reward it with a treat...there are consequences. People learn via action, not words. You can't instruct someone to do something. You can only show them via your actions what is and isn't acceptable.

This is how you filter out lazy men from genuine ones. If his behavior doesn't change as a result, you don't beat your head against the wall attempting to get him to do what you want him to do.

You move on, realizing he's not going to "man up."

That's the whole point...filtering. If he doesn't step up - you don't waste your time.

You're free to do as you please here. But if it were me, I'd stop wasting my time, realize he's never going to attempt to make me happy...and I'd move on.

These are the techniques to use so you know which men are worth your time and which aren't.

If his behavior is signaling that he's uninterested...then you move on.

Never make someone your priority while they're treating you like their option.

Alana said...

@MOA,

Thanks for the honest advice. I suppose it's still early days after 3 dates - and he just got back from his business trip, so I'll see if things improve over the next little while and put him on watch.

Thanks again!

-Alana

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA,

I have a question relative to dating and communication. A friend I grew up with contacted me on Facebook, after a couple of days it was obvious his intent was more than to say Hi. Because of the stigma attached to dating people from your past or online I had my doubts about where it would go. I am not sure if the flow of things was even correct but I went off of his initiatives. We started off texting a couple times a day, just catching up on life. After about a month we also began to talk on the phone. From there we started video chatting on a regular basis. Most of the time we talk about work, school, our family or short term plans. Around 6 months I agreed to meet up but made it clear that my boundary was kissing. He was a gentleman and did not even attempt to push the limit. Afterwards we continued communicating as before and he asked me what I thought about us dating long distance. Things were adding up for me and I realized that I was emotionally attached to him. I seriously considered the long distance between us and was not sure if I wanted to risk moving forward. I was scared to say the wrong thing, but I told him that everything was happening too fast and I needed more time to make that decision. Then I backed off, I used the kids, and school and whatever else that was going on as an excuse to be busy. I even shut my Facebook down. We gradually went from texting everyday to once every two weeks. I don't text until he does. For the last two months conversations were basically, "good morning, I'm fine, how are you. He did not ask if I wanted to talk or video chat anymore. Then the two weeks ago he asked me what I was doing. I was not sure why he decided to ask something different but I replied using more than 2 words. We ended up talking on the phone. Things seemed normal until he asked me my relationship status. I told him I was still single. I asked him if he was seeing anyone and he told me that he had met a nice lady but is still getting to know her. He has been texting everyday since then, but its back to "good morning and how are you". At this point my goals are to respect that he is seeing someone but not become too distant. I would like to try the long distance relationship. But not under the current circumstances. However, I am not going to ask him how they are coming along either. My first question is why would he want to tell me about his relationship status? If he is getting to know a nice lady, why would he start texting me more often? Are these red flags that I need to pay attention to? What would you suggest I do?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Hmm, seems a bit odd to me to be honest. I'm wondering if he didn't contact you to inform you he's met someone so he could see if you'd "jump" on a relationship with him (i.e. compete for him).

If you'd like to continue communicating with him, feel free to do so. No harm, no foul. But as long as he's dating another individual or currently involved, I wouldn't move towards a long distance relationship (at least not until he's single).

Anonymous said...

@ MOA,

Thank you for the quick response about him telling me he was seeing someone. I am so glad I found your page, before I was using my instincts. Although I mirrored him and things flowed, I think I got stuck when I had to make a decision. Mainly because I felt that 6 months was not enough time to know someone in a long distance situation. Does the general relationship timeline for things apply to long distance? I have no way of knowing his relationship status. Am I right to assume that if he is interested he will come back and tell me if he is single? Should I use the no contact method with him at this point?

Anonymous said...

Whats going on is am a Scorpio woman into a Sagittarius man he was recently heart broken by the girl he used to call his one the girl of his dreams his princess he asked her to be his alot!!!! And all that time I was considering him a friend and was into his best friend but after a few convos found out he was in to me just for the thrill of getting me but I got over him easily so my new crush used to talk to me about his girl and I gave him advice and asked him to be patient and all he used to be jealous of people approaching me and told me that while we were friends and he was still hocked to her we got closer then he was drifting away I texted asked then after trying twice I stopped he told me he knew he was mistaken and told me what happened with his girl so I told him I was ok with it but I'm just worried about him and i was sorry for not being there the next day he became more rude his actions became hurtful then he did stuff that made me look bad in front of friends I still talked and wanted him to open up he did things that made that the last time I asked about him so this was it I started being me very formal not trying to reach out or nothing I could see it in his face that he wanted to talk and apologise I totally ignored him and a friend of mine came one day and we were having a good time and I knew he was staring once I got home he asked wjo that was I was like a friend he told me he was worried that ild be late for home and I continued acting cold and was never available anymore he couldn't find or see me anywhere talked to my sister and was really concerned and wanted to make things right I didn't give him any attention the next day he asked me tosit with him and talk we sat he asked me to say all that's on my mind andI said nnothing much now he gives me attention and is very sorry tells me nice stuff but all the time he says thatbi stopped caring about him and I never gave him a straight answer now he said he was sick and I did give him some attention and I really am worried the problem is I don't know howbto act around him anymore for starters I never start a convo anymore never ask where he's been never do anything to make him feel cared for now he keeps telling me he misses me am beautiful and most important person in his life he wants to talk to me all the time make me think he has things to do then when I say k t.c he be like I only wanted u to answer what should I do helpppp

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
He's attempting to manipulate you emotionally. He's attempting to make you feel guilty when he's the one who was rude and he pushes your buttons simply to get a reaction.

He's been rude, he's embarrassed you in front of friends and he sounds very immature.

You don't need to do anything here. If his actions have changed the way you feel about him and the fact that you cannot trust him because of it, then that's his problem, not yours dear.

All of these things he's done to you here in the past, he will do in the future if you enter into a relationship with him - because he's immature.

You don't have to do anything here dear, he does.

Anonymous said...

So if he talks to me how long should I take before I reply and when should I be nice and when should I go back to the cold face

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
I don't think you should waste your time on this man dear. But if you choose to do so, how you handle that is up to you. There are many articles on this site that you can glean insights from.

Anonymous said...

Dear mirror I'm in that point where he asked me if I was taken told me never to be nice to anyone other than him held my hand told me my eyes r all he needs to see all the time gave me all that lovely attention sat with me for hours talks to me when ever am online wantsyto kknow where am at what am I doing all the time sents me awesome songs I'm falling for him the problem is he was just heart broken by his crush I have no idea if he got over her that fast or is he trying to make her jealous or is he really into me please moa tell me how to slow down

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Sounds like he's running away from his problems. Don't set yourself up to be his rebound.

You don't need to be told how to slow a relationship down dear, I'm sure you're perfectly capable of that yourself.

You simply say no, that you're not ready. It's really that simple.

June said...

Hello MOA
Kudos for this amazing website! I'm glad to see there are other women like me who are sick and tired of dealing with flaky and dishonest men out there.

Tulisaa said...

June I had felt the same for a number of years until the right man walked into my life. It does happen and when it does it can take you by surprise!

Anonymous said...

Hi M.O.A.,

I believe i am in t right place & you would be the right person to shine some light on my dating life.

I've been dating someone for nearly half a year now. Compared to t the first 4 mths, our meetups/dates were kinda sexual & communication was at t bear minimum once or twice a month. I had somewhat placed this relationship between him & me as something casual. eventhough i did start having feelings for him and i really love the comfortability & chemistry between us.
I can feel that he felt it too but both me & him weren't t type of ppl who can easily open up about our feelings.

In the last 2 weeks things seem to have picked up speed.

We had went on a short vacation together. We had a wonderful time talking, hanging out, romancing, chilling out & of course being intimate but in a sweet, loving, pampering way. He was really v attentive towards me & i felt that sex was just secondary.

He had proposed t vacation initially saying that he had somethings to discuss but we never got to that.

A week of silence later he called me & i reminded him that i totally forgot abt the talk we were suppose to have during t vacation but that i had forgotten all abt it becoz we were having a great time.

He opened up about saying that he knows that we have been seeing each other for some time and he didn't want me mistake him for taking advantage of me. And if i was still dating other guys besides him. I stopped him and asked him if he was happy w me becoz i was happy when i am ard him so why don't we just enjoy each other's company instead of trying to call it sthg.

Couple of days later he booked me way in advance to take me out for dinner which was out of t norm as he usually used to ask me out last min or only gave me couple of days notice.

T last date w him was sthg totally different from our previous dates.

He made an effort to come closer to my workplace to take me out for dinner instead of the meeting up half way or closer to his pad kinda thing.

Just sat had a lovely dinner & we were have a gd conversation. And he stayed on and took me out for coffee just to hang out longer w me. We sat and talked work.

He suggested that we should try to hang out on Saturdays when he is not working, i jokingly said don't you have to hang out with ur stags for guys' night. He just replied he doesn't have to to it all t Saturdays.

When we had to part he pulled me close and gave me a kiss in public. It was just a lovely feeling, nothing sexual just the feeling of being loved.

He has been calling me every 2 days from that night on before he had to hit t sack. I was out late on of t nights becoz of work and he sounded half asleep but was hanging on t phone to ensure till i was back home safe.

He is suppose to be going away on a work trip & jokingly even asked if i wanted come along. Teasingly saying that he is going to miss me but a little but already have a date to meet up with him t weekend right after he is back.

All of a sudden he is starting to show more love, became communicative, wants to spend more time with me, shows care & concern.

In all t months i have known him this is t first time i'm getting to see his gentleman side and i can't help myself but constantly thinking about him, wanting to be with him. Not sure if i have been bitten by t love bug but i'm not eating or sleeping well neither as i have him on my mind. i can feel that he wants more with me if asking me jokingly when i'm going to propose to him marriage.

How can i not screw this up? I don't want toconstantly be at his disposal and end up recipocating to the point that he will lose interest in me. How should a real lady go about handling this 360 degree turnaround of a relationship?

Please advice...

Anonymous said...

I know that he is now closer to me becoz of t way i had distanced myself while just being myself w him. He on t other hand has been through some unrequited love affairs and he even had been a rebound affair for a girl who didn't accept his love hence he carries a little bit of insecurity which he shared w me about him.

I do want him to keep courting me in t new way that he has started to and i hope that he will slowly but surely man himself up to take my hand in his own firm decision.

Is this a normal thing for a man to want to work on a relationship in this manner especially at one that started out as sexual? I'm just curious

Anonymous said...

Hi
Love your blog n advice..one of the rare online that help women raise their worthy vibration..so wonderful
I am 50 and dating is v different these days...I spent 1 1/2years with a guy who was 6 month out of a marriage and didnt want a relationship - I knew red flag but connection was v strong and we journeyed till. Pulled the plug and said I wanted to be with a man who claimed me not on a leash....I made all the mistakes becoming Florence nightingale rescuer / therapist....learnt a lot that I have an anxious attaching style from childhood etc
Anyway I went on a date Saturday night..met guy online...he was v v smooth and smart too..we got on well through texts and a v long phone conversation..he was extremely complimentary of me (I am actually an exceptional woman!!) he always texted and initiated and I answered calm light n breezy..he organised date..drove an hour to see me etc..we had a great fun night....he drank a bit excessively but I don't drink so perhaps it's normal!! He wasn't roaring drunk but he was v alpha male, seemingly confident (hiding vulnerability) he was a strong guy but made me laugh in a good way..he said he felt he had known me a 100 years...I felt same we were v v comfortable with each other...we were both surprised....he told me I was stunning etc etc......the date went well and was a bit longer than expected..yes we had some cuddles n sweet kisses but that s it........he stayed on my couch as too drunk to drive (my mistake as I shouldn't have rescued him and I know that now infact when he asked to stay we both agreed no sex and hesitated to invite him back- but there was no sex) and I had told him in our call week before date I don't have sex with men before I am in relationship - he is the type that would charm women not sex easily!! Anyway he left and said "talk soon" I deliberated about sending a thank you for date text and decided to as that's my way to be polite and have gratitude.....I sent a brief text thanking him, that I had enjoyed the time and I didn't ask when will I see u again etc.....he answered with lad you enjoyed evening as I did..and hope you had some smiles reminiscing our time together...I answered a day later yes did enjoyed your spirit and would be good to do it again and have a great day..just v light n breezy.........and NOTHING! That was 3 days ago...I need to know what did I do here.......to learn for myself..as an ex anxious attacher I think in this instance I actually held back and leaned back more than ever.....he initiated all texts , our call and date set up prior to date and was v v enamoured during date but fizzled after!!!! I am curious to understand........should I just wait to its over before even started....!!! Maybe I shouldn't have initiated thank you text (the only thing I initiated in 2 weeks), maybe he's a player, womaniser, didnt get sex so can't be bothered, any number of things..perhaps it's a NEXT......and he said a few future things as well.........said I was the coolest and best woman!!! Ahhhh yes I know words over action...thanks. Love your blog n sensibility helping women to find inner self worth..I am working on this and feel I am getting clearer ..ps I haven't sent any more texts since my reply to his...so in that I am also doing better than my past..thanks and love xx

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Well dear, I think you attempted to take the lead (masculine energy) and steer the relationship towards a second date instead of saying absolutely nothing and drawing him towards you (feminine energy) with a mysterious silence.

This happens a lot. Many women alter their behavior once they like a man without realizing it. Let me explain.

"he always texted and initiated and I answered calm light n breezy"

You see, he always text and initiated (masculine energy) and you always answered calm and breezy (feminine energy).

But then you swapped the roles:

"I sent a brief text thanking him, that I had enjoyed the time"

And then:

"I answered a day later yes did enjoyed your spirit and would be good to do it again"

In a subtle way, you took the lead, you kind of took matters into your own hands and you hinted at a second date. To a man, this somewhat registers as you asking for a second date.

"he initiated all texts, our call and date set up prior to date"

Then why did YOU attempt to do these things AFTER the date instead of continuing as things were and hanging back and permitting HIM to do that again? See what I mean?

"Maybe I shouldn't have initiated thank you text (the only thing I initiated in 2 weeks)"

I think you gut is trying to speak to you here. It's unfortunate, but when a woman makes herself too available to a man and expresses eagerness in the very early days (before HE asks for a commitment), it tends to invite poor treatment from them and they begin to take the woman for granted.

Men like a challenge and by making yourself available to him, it removes the challenge (the fun of competition) for the man.

My suggestion would be to not contact him again and to continue casually (no sex) dating other men and getting on with your life. If you do that, there's a very high likelihood that he'll surface in a couple of weeks again ;-)

Hang back, be silent, get on with your life and don't jump on his call or text when it does come. Don't act too eager and play it cool. Draw him to you with your curious mysterious silence ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks for reply Mirror.....yes I am in agreement with all of your answer above...what I found difficult and battled with was my nature to say thank you for our date ...I looked online to see what the general,consensus is about a woman sending a thank you text for date and it was about 70% yes it's a lovely considerate and grateful gesture and about 30% don't do it........so I followed who I am but now see in the scheme of the polarity of masculine / feminine energy dance I should have held back........ok then he answered that he had enjoyed evening too.....and my next text which I thought was rather casual and showing that I had an interest in him but not over the top was - would be good to do it again - full stop ......so really it seems in retrospect it is for the woman to totally lean back and not send a thank you text and not say would be good to do again???? Best o let him initiate all contact after first date.....no excuses!!!! Ok good to know and yes I have been absolutely silent since those two days of texting and have not said another word so I guess I am practising holding off....if I do hear from him lets say in a week or two or perhaps never!!! How long should I wait before texting back ? If he calls should I answer or let it go to message and call back or let him call me back? These fine details are what I am realising make HUGE differences ..much love n appreciation xx

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
LOL, doesn't surprise me, those 70% statistics you saw...and I bet the majority of the consensus came from...other women...not men, LOL. Women have a tendency to advise one another based on what THEY feel is acceptable or what THEY would want someone to do for THEM.

Problem is...they're women, not men. And what women want and need and appreciate...is NOT what men want, need and appreciate. Yet women project their wants, needs and desires onto men every single day. They say things to themselves like, "I like this or I want this or I appreciate this or I see it this way...so that must mean he does too."

WRONG. Women are not men and women and men are two entirely different creatures. Men interpret the behavior of women vastly different from how we interpret it ourselves.

And if you polled the majority of the women who feel its okay to send a thank you and hint at a second date before the man even asks for one, I bet you'll find that many of those dating situations fizzled out within a month or so. The only kind of men that respond relatively positively to that sort of thing are insecure men, players and or men that receive little to no attention from a woman. Even good men who respond positively find their attraction for the woman diminished, yet can't even put their finger on why they feel that way.

And the reason is the flip flop reversal of natural gender roles.

So when he contacts you, no don't answer that first call. Call him back about two hours later. Same with any texts that roll in. Wait at least an hour to respond. This gives you time to think clearly and him time to think about you.

Both very good things in the world of dating ;-)

Anonymous said...

I agree with you...women and consulting about men via women will more often than not give the wrong answer - so best thing is do the opposite of your girlfriends advice!! lol Funny though I have to say the 70% who said send a thank you text well I'd say many of them were actually guys which influenced my decision - but as you point out perhaps more insecure / player types which in many ways the guy I went on date with was!!! I find so interesting that a man can be so complimentary to the woman and actually get on well before and during the date and then virtually disapear! I am surprised that I haven't heard from this guy (besides one text) because in the WHOLE scheme of our relating (and remember I am a recovering anxios attacher!) he did 95% of the initiating..I find it tough to think because I sent a thank you and a return text saying would be good to do it again that he would right me off?? Its like wow!!
Anyway good I haven't responded at all since

...now I am also intrigued that you say only leave it a couple of hours to call back or text if he contacts me after a week or two as I notice you speak of mirroring what he does...... shouldn't I then wait the time he waited to get to me before answering?? Or is that just too crazy!!! (as it may be a month or a year!!!) lol......

love your advice and sensibility.....I feel relieved to have you to speak to....thanks
Ms M

Anonymous said...

PS Meant to add it was a guy who told me to write in the text that I answered to my date
"...would be good to do it again!!"
Arrgghhhhhhhh!!! He said just keep it light and show that in a non confronting way that you would be happy to see him again!!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Ms M,
"it was a guy who told me to write in the text that I answered to my date "...would be good to do it again!!"

LOL, well again, I'm not really surprised. Because the other thing I've noticed is that - many men (not all but many), their first impulse when dating is to want to make things easier on themselves. Additionally, as I had previously stated, this is a concept that affects many men (gender role reversal when dating) BUT they don't even know it. They can't put their finger on it. They think that what they want is something easy, where the woman takes the lead, makes things easy for them and she does the heavy lifting and the bulk of the work to keep the relationship going. That's what they THINK they want.

But in reality, the men find their attraction for the woman suddenly diminished and they don't even know why. They can't put their finger on it, but something's changed and it just doesn't light a "spark" for them anymore. And what they fail to realize about themselves is this:

1) Men like competition.

2) Men like "the chase."

3) Men like to be in the lead.

4) Men find that having to work at a woman actually excites them more than if a woman falls right into their lap.

So their natural inclination is to want to make things easier for themselves, but in doing so, they fail to realize. . .they've removed ALL OF THE FUN out of the situation for themselves. And then they stand their scratching their heads wondering why all of a sudden, they're no longer finding themselves as attracted to the woman as they originally were.

I read a great book, "Why Men Love Bitches" and in it, she described this concept. She put it something like this.

Imagine a man that likes to hunt (a competitive sport). A guy rings his doorbell, he opens the door and there's a live deer standing their on a leash. The man who brought the deer invites the man who opened the door to shoot it. The guy shoots it and goes back inside.

The entire experience was "meh" (shoulder shrug).

Now imagine this. The guy is out in the woods before sunrise. He hears a deer. Eventually he sees the deer coming into his sights. His hearts pounding, his blood is racing and he's focused on the kill. Hands shaking, he lines up his shot. He shoots - and misses. The deer takes off in a full sprint. He scrambles down from his tree stand and now he's on foot in pursuit of the deer. He lays low and takes another shot. This time, he grazes the deer. The deer again takes off full sprint with the man in pursuit. After a mile of tracking the deer, it's in his sights again. This time, adrenaline pumping, he takes his third shot. He shoots and the deer drops. He's won his prize through a hard earned battle.

And he goes home and he hangs that deer's head proudly on his wall. He tells the story of how he brought the deer down to all his friends and anyone who will listen. And every time he looks at that deer on his wall, he reminisces about the battle that brought the deer down.

Do you see the difference?

When a woman offers herself up on a platter, like the deer that was originally offered up on the leash, the excitement dwindles to nearly nothing for the man. However, when there's a challenge and some competition and a feeling of a hard won success - the man cherishes that experience.

You see, many men don't even know themselves well enough to know that the things they love about dating, they often times suggest that the woman remove from the experience for them. When a man invites a woman to call, text or take the lead - he doesn't even realize that he's inviting her to remove all of the fun, excitement and the thrill of the chase from the dating experience for him.

So regardless of what others tell you, man or woman, remember the story about the hunter and the deer.

Do you want to be the deer on the leash? Or the deer on the run ;-)

I say give them what they want sweetie, and RUN!

Anonymous said...

Hi again
Yes thanks I have heard that story about he easy hunt v the adrenaline laden one!!! Funny because in many ways you are right leading up to the date this guy did do all the hunting...called me (only once the week before) and did the initiating of texts and asked me to dinner - just lent back and charmed him with my grace and beauty!! He was though I have to say v complimentary, using babe and angel etc in texts before meeting.....he also the moment we met had his arm around me and we were holding hands and it really felt v natural - I would never normally do this straight up!! But he drank quite a bit and was actually seeking my validation in conversation - I could feel a subtle insecurity in him that he was trying to hide and I didn't just agree with him on things - infact he said many times how smart I was - emotional intelligence here!- in some ways I was not the usual type of woman he could bait and get away with - I am also v healthy body mind n spirit.....he said his last gf's ended up v needy and psycho with him ( they had abuse issues) and he plays the rescuer which I know as I have also done that in past...I think he realised with me he couldn't get away with his usual rescuing behaviour as I am a cut above all that...this means he would need to open to his deepest vulnerability and that's scary - and alcohol is a crutch to protect him from looking at his deep insecurities - you get the gist - shame because on some levels we had a lot of compatibility but do I want t be with a drinker n smoker when I am totally clean??? Still I am v pleased its been a week and I have remained silent which for me has been a great lesson in rising above from my past needy anxious attaching and realise not to take things personally - I think we as women when we get rejected (some of us) immediately believe there is something wrong with us and now I am considering actually maybe there is dysfunction with the man!!!! As I know I am a woman of worth integrity n value and should elevate myself (humbly) to sit in this place of self love - yes it has taken 50 years to get here but my eyes and ears are open now!!!! I can surrender and let go more easily of men who don't serve my highest good rather than fall in to a heap and blame myself - I wish this for all women to rise above and feel their worth and value.......and that being single has advantages too........thanks for your time - Ms M x

Om Prakash said...

nice sharing...............

Lioness of the Sun said...

"You see, many men don't even know themselves well enough to know that the things they love about dating, they often times suggest that the woman remove from the experience for them. When a man invites a woman to call, text or take the lead - he doesn't even realize that he's inviting her to remove all of the fun, excitement and the thrill of the chase from the dating experience for him."

This is so true. I see a lot of men these days say things like they love a woman who is upfront and direct, pays for dinner, doesn't make him chase her takes the lead, knows what she wants, asks him out, etc. And I just ignore advice like this from both men and women these days. It messed up my dating life for years. lol The only types of men who like women like this are players, feminine energy guys, lazy guys and I certainly don't want to feel like the "man" in the relationship!

If a guy asks me to call him, I say, "it would feel nice to hear from you." And I give them my number. I only take their number if I'm not interested since I don't plan to call them and it's easier than some awkwardness.

However I also noticed that a lot of men don't chase if you give them nothing to chase. i.e. give no response at all...but as long as you let them know subtly that you do like hearing from them (not in an overly enthused grateful way but simply something sensual like "it feels good to hear from you") they will continue chasing

~Lioness of the Sun

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lioness of the Sun,
As a woman, always encourage the treatment that you like and appreciate. And the way to encourage it, is to compliment them on it.

This builds the man's confidence with the woman and it also lets him know that his actions are successful. It serves as an unspoken language in a sense. Positive behavior and positive reinforcement leads to more positive behavior and more positive reinforcement.

And it creates a really nice positive vibe of energy that starts to ebb and flow between the two.

Lioness of the Sun said...

I totally agree, MOA. a year ago, I realized that in the past I didn't really show enough positive reinforcement when men did something I liked, and I would complain when they did something "wrong". I think the lack of showing appreciation is the entitlement thing that some men complain about. Now that I am always showing positive reinforcement for their good gestures, I feel like I attract them more (like bees to honey. lol ) I was also reading your article on Persuasion and Influence. I've never come across something so informative on the subject!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lioness of the Sun,
Evoking positive feelings in another individual is what draws them towards you - because naturally, no one enjoys spending time around anyone that makes them feel like crap all the time.

So if you elicit positive feelings in others and their overall experience around you (and with you) becomes something very positive and enjoyable - then it's human nature to simply want more of that ;-)

In the same way that negative reinforcement can push someone away from you "I would complain when they did something wrong" - positive reinforcement can draw people towards you "I am always showing positive reinforcement for their good gestures, I feel like I attract them more (like bees to honey)."

As a human being, if you stay and remain in the "positive" - you're going to draw more of that to yourself.

As a human being, if you stay and remain in the "negative" - you're going to draw more of that to yourself (in the form of people moving away from you and avoiding your company because it's not an enjoyable experience for them).

Anonymous said...

I so love this information and think its vital for us women to have it, so thank you for sharing! I have a couple of questions though. As an older single female, 51, I don't have kids and don't need a man to provide for a family. I still want to apply these rules though. I get that I should never ever initiate a text or a phone call in the first stages of dating. How long does this apply for? A couple of months? And then is it ok? And what does a man do when he finally catches the female? When he has a commitment....does his hunting instincts die and doesn't he sort of lose interest in some way? How do we keep that urge in him alive? And also, I don't have a family for him to provide for, so how do I rationalize (to myself)letting him pay for everything all the time. Does this continue into commitment, letting the man pay for absolutely everything?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
These are basics for the dating phase (i.e. courtship phase). Once things progress and commitments have been made an the man has requested exclusivity from the woman - then things can change a bit.

"I don't have kids and don't need a man to provide for a family."

Doesn't matter. You still want a man to provide for you as well and that isn't necessarily financially. He should be able to provide support, encouragement and inspiration and you should provide that in return as well.

"I get that I should never ever initiate a text or a phone call in the first stages of dating. How long does this apply for? A couple of months? And then is it ok?"

Generally, things can change once the MAN has requested exclusivity and a commitment. If that hasn't happened, then you let him pursue you.

There are no time limits with regards to that, but generally, if a man hasn't asked for exclusivity by about the 6th month of dating, chances are he's never going to and you should move on then so that you don't waste years of your life waiting on a man to decide if your the one or not.

And once exclusivity is set, I'd still let him be the man and make most of the initiation. Because lots of times what happens is women get the commitment, then they turn the tables and they come "full on" with the man - which will only cause him to take a step back from the woman.

"And what does a man do when he finally catches the female? When he has a commitment....does his hunting instincts die and doesn't he sort of lose interest in some way?"

This is why, even after exclusivity has been requested, you let him initiate most of the time. You let him work at it and lead the relationship (exhibit masculine energy). If the woman attempts to then take control of the relationship after commitments have been set, this is when you hear men say, "She was always so sweet but then we became boyfriend and girlfriend and everything changed."

And that's because the woman attempted to overpower the man and "lead" (begins exhibiting masculine energy) the relationship.

"And also, I don't have a family for him to provide for, so how do I rationalize (to myself)letting him pay for everything all the time. Does this continue into commitment, letting the man pay for absolutely everything?"

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Again, moderation and fairness are key here. It's not about the family aspect, it's about him providing for you - fulfilling your needs as a woman. Needs that entail romance, respect, support, encouragement, inspiration and the like. Financial is just on aspect of the "provider" concept.

True gentlemen feel emasculated by letting a woman provide financially for them:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/02/pay-for-a-date.html

So you have to be mindful of not overriding his manhood by taking the lead. You have to let him be the man because this is what makes him feel good about himself and makes him feel like a man and provides him with confidence. When women take the lead, they undermine the man's masculinity and many men suddenly find themselves no longer attracted to the woman and don't even know why - and it's because the woman is now exhibiting masculine energy in the form of leading and providing while the man is then forced to play a more passive role (feminine energy) and this makes men feel uncomfortable, even if they don't realize that that is what's causing their discomfort.

The point is to never reverse Mother Nature's natural gender roles - because it topple's the energy exchange in a relationship.

So once things have progressed to the state of exclusivity, I'd say on average, keep it maybe 60-40 or so. Sixty percent of the time, he's the man and the leader and the provider. Then, approximately 40 percent of the time, you can take a step forward and switch things up a bit. Find whatever ratio works for you as a couple - but NEVER take the larger percentage or you will overpower him in masculine energy.

That way, even after exclusivity, he's allowed to be the man, he's exhibiting the bulk of masculine energy, and most of the time, he's still got to work at this, which keeps him interested and engaged in the relationship.

Anonymous said...

Sounds good to me! Thanks for such sage advice.

Anonymous said...

@Wonderful advice! Something my masculine female colleagues should adopt. The working environment would definitely change for the better.

Anonymous said...

I love your articles - I always read them when embarking on a possible new relationship, they make me feel empowered! I was wondering what your views are on whether you should kiss on a first date? I am going on a first date with a new guy this weekend. I've met a few guys from online dating who I have never kissed on a first date, but I think maybe because we didn't have a lot of communication beforehand. With this guy he has openly been flirting with me (in amongst normal non-flirty emails) and I can sense that a kiss might be on the cards for our date. We don't live in the same town, and are actually both meeting in London (not our home towns) and I won't be back 'home' until mid September - I am going away a lot over this summer, so this might be our only date for a while. I'm wondering whether a kiss might be a good thing, as if I do like this guy then it'll help me stay in his mind for all this time....what do you think?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous July 12, 7:13AM,
That depends on what type of kiss you're referring to. A brief, conservative kiss is acceptable. However, I would not advise a deep, passionate kiss as it may lead elsewhere (to the bedroom) and start this thing off on the wrong foot.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your advice. I will try and restrain myself to a brief kiss...I did think that a proper kiss might be a bad idea, but as there is no chance of us having access to any bedrooms for at least a couple of months anyway, I thought it might be ok! Probably a brief kiss would be safest all round anyway, just enough to let him I know I like him (if I do like him when I meet him, but not too much. Thanks for your advice.

Tiff720 said...

Hi M.O.A.... I really love your articles & you've helped me along the way. Here is my situation...
Thursday night after class, a few of my classmates/group members (3 women/1 guy) went to a restaurant… Meanwhile, we're all going to our cars, the guy (K) interjects during our conversation & asked me "so what are WE doing for your birthday (Saturday)". Totally surprised as I was not expecting anything like it. Here's a little background on this (k). Had a class with him about 2 semesters ago. Another classmate texted me to tell me that the guy may be "GAY" (i do apologize if this offends). I didn't think he was, just a little different! After the class was over, we both realized we needed to take the exam. So we exchanged #'s. We met a few times to study for the exam. I thought our studying time was kindof not effective since he began to talk about relationship stuff that I had no interest.... We still kept in contact on occasion of classes/professors & the status of the exam. We ended up being in the same class (taking now), at first he was not sitting next to me than a few classes later, he sits right next to me. Now back to him asking me out.. I let him know that bowling was good & I'll call him to let him know the time.... He wanted me to text him to let him know that I made it home. So I did!
Friday, called (k) while headed to the doctors to let him know a good time to meet. While talking to him, he realized that I was in the same area as he & asked me out to brunch. He said to pick a place "anywhere I would like to go". After choosing the restaurant, it didn't make since to take both cars, so he let me use his parking pass & we took his car. He's doing all of the talking (nice) while at the restaurant. I've never been on a brunch/ date & the man is doing all of the talking. W(h)e talked for a long time. To the point I lost track of time. After departing from him around 8pm. Guy (D) calls. Guy (D) & I have been corresponding (mainly text) on occasion, but have known since last year May. We were in the same class & found out we were pursing the same degree/major. We talked; he asked what I was doing. So I told him he can come pick me up. He knows where I live because I have invited him over to exchange some books for class & notes. He was a few classes ahead of me, but has books he pays it forward. We went to bar, got there around 11:50ish or so. We left the bar 1am-ish back to my place. He walked me to my door, I gave him a hug & thanked him for the gift he got me. He kissed me! Then that led to us kissing for almost 2.5 hours. WOW!! I have never done that before. I was never expecting that from him. He left a little after 4 am. Met (K) for bowling, afterwards he took me to restaurant. All the while in the restaurant, I realized this man order the same foods I ate like he did at the other restaurant. I thought to myself for it to be very interesting because that has never happened. Again he talked throughout the whole time. Sunday, met up with (D) since he had called to let me know he had another gift for me. We kissed again for about 30 mins. I really like kissing him. I like D, but don't want to rush anything; especially from previous relationships/experiences.
What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance for your advice.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tiff720,
I'm not real sure what your specific question is, but if I understand it correctly, you're dating two men. Which, at this point is acceptable as both are in the very early stages and nothing sexual is taking place, so both are a "get to know you" situation.

However, if things progress with D, then K has to be released. Additionally, even if things don't progress with D, after a month or so, I think K needs to be set free.

And the reason for that is that it's okay to casually date (no sex) a few men at a time in the early stages, but once things start to progress with one of them (2, 3rd, 4th and 5th dates) and YOU find that you like one and want more, then it's time to set the others free.

It's respectful and it's the right thing to do.

On the flip side, if you're dating a few men at once and you don't find yourself particularly attracted to any one of them and you don't find that anything is progressing with any of them, then it's okay to continue to casually see them from time to time while exploring other options as well. But like I said, if you find yourself being attracted to one of them and want more, or you find one of them begins asking more from you (and you're not interested in a romantic involvement), it's best to do the right thing and release them with honesty.

Tiff720 said...

This is Tiff720.... Thank you for the quick response. Wasn't sure of the question to ask, so I gave you an overview of the situation...

I haven't dated in about a month so now all of a sudden these 2 guys appear. So yes, I am dating them both. I have been out with the K guy only once. As for D, I have been out with him from time to time. Nothing sexual at all; but although this past w/k there was some kind of sexual tension between D & I. However, I refrained from it going any further. I mentioned during our kissing session that I don't participate in casual sex. He said the same thing.

However, since I do not talk to D on a consistent basis; I let him text me. How do I get to know him or should I just let it all take its course? How would I recognize/know if things are progressing with D? If I can remember we met for brunch for the 1st time in the beginning a May. Later that day he asked me out to the movies. It was a nice & friendly date, hanging out or not sure what to call it. The next time I saw him was to exchange books around June. It was kindof late as I was just getting off from work & exhausted. He text me after leaving and asked if I wanted a massage. I replied that is sounds nice, but I'll have to let you next time. Was that the right thing to say?
He asked of some pictures of me when I went on a trip. So I sent him a few. Should I have done that?











The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tiff720,
"How do I get to know him"

You wait for HIM to make attempts to get to know YOU dear.

"How would I recognize/know if things are progressing with D?"

When he starts initiating regular communication with you, when he starts asking you out on dates and when he starts making time for you.

"He text me after leaving and asked if I wanted a massage. I replied that is sounds nice, but I'll have to let you next time. Was that the right thing to say?"

Well, it was sexually suggestive somewhat. So when you say, "next time" - to many men, that may translate into, "next time I'm getting laid." So careful being open to that type of thing. Instead, keep em' guessing (and working at it) with something like, "That sounds nice, we'll just have to see where this goes."

That's not a yes, and it's not a no. It's a "maybe - if you act right." ;-)

"He asked of some pictures of me when I went on a trip. So I sent him a few. Should I have done that?"

If they were respectful pictures, sure that's fine. If they were nude or sexually suggestive, then no, that's not the type of behavior that leads to a healthy, committed relationship. Instead, that will lead to a "hookup."

Tiff720 said...

Thanks for the additional advice.....

What are some signs that he is getting to know me?

When I received that text, I contemplated on how to respond for a long while. After sending my response, what I really wanted to same popped in my mind, ugh! So I couldn't take that back. I just hope he doesn't remember. So thanks for the catchy suggestion of the things to say.

As far as the pictures; nothing risky or sexually suggestive; however, what about swimsuit pictures?

Anonymous said...

I have been on your site in a while but I just wanted to thank you again for the info you share. Very helpful!!!!!! MT

Pisces Girl said...

Hi Mirror- is it ever ok to hang out with a guy at his place in the beginning stages?this football player i met has been very insistent on me going over to his place to "chill" and he's said i can trust him and he just wants to talk but im very skeptical because first time i met him he wasnt very talkative he kept on asking for my number till i finally gave in and gave it to him (btw should you give out your # or get the guys??)i'll admit since my last relationship ended recently ive been feeling quite sad and vulnerable that offer tempts me and he's got a six pack but i got a mirror on my shoulder and know that if he isnt gonna put in the effort to take me on a date that he doesnt deserve one. He keeps texting asking me to go over and chill and i text him saying that i chill enough at home and i like to go out and do things -he then said that i never told him that..but why would i have to tell him that thats the proper way to court a girl! i feel like he just wants to get me in his environment where he can have the opportunities to make advances on me i told him this as well and i dont want to put myself in that position being in the vulnerable state that im in. Anyways he basically told me im too damn difficult :( and i then said he lacks energy and creativity to put in any effort to have a real date..he said we just started messaging each other again recently ( i deleted his # before)so there was no time to be creative..i told him i was going to delete his number again and he just told me to go ahead and do that if thats what i wanna do. Any hope here?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Pisces Girl,
He's a waste of time dear - and you've already filtered him out as a lazy man seeking free and easy sex (a hookup situation).

"should you give out your # or get the guys?"

ALWAYS give YOURS and let the man pursue you. If you start off as the one leading the relationship, then it'll be you doing all of the work to keep it going from that day forward. If a man isn't going to prove himself to you from day one, he never will.

"why would i have to tell him that thats the proper way to court a girl"

You'd never have to tell a gentleman that dear - trouble is, you're not dealing with a gentleman here. You're dealing with a lazy man that's not willing to make any investments in you - yet is expecting you to invest in him sexually for his less than stellar efforts.

"i feel like he just wants to get me in his environment where he can have the opportunities to make advances on me"

Players are very good at sniffing out weakness and vulnerability in women dear - they actually target women like that. In the movie, The Breakup, Vince Vaughn walks into a bar with his buddies and his friend says to him, "Let's separate the weak ones from the pack."

I'm quite sure this man senses your vulnerability and he knows that if he corners you, he's got a good chance that you'll buckle.

"he basically told me im too damn difficult"

Translation: You're not an "easy" girl - and that's a GOOD thing dear so don't let his attempt at emotional manipulation (using guilt) make you believe otherwise.

He wants you to feel bad about yourself, as if you're a difficult woman and unlike the rest, an oddball - so that he can use that to his advantage here. Don't fall for it and don't be sad about it. . .be PROUD of that dear.

"there was no time to be creative"

It takes all of 15 minutes to thoughtfully plan a date. I think football may have gone to his head here and he's not the brightest start in the sky, LOL ;-)

"Any hope here?"

Here's your answer to that:

"i told him i was going to delete his number again and he just told me to go ahead and do that if thats what i wanna do"

He could care less. And that's fine. Let him go out and victimize someone else - you're too smart to fall for that and if he wants you - this football player's going to have to "up his game" ;-)

Pisces Girl said...

hahah love it! thanks Mirror once again you are soo right-i wont even respond to his last text-his number will have to be deleted and he can go play somebody else!! i did wanna respond and tell him that thats no way to treat somebody but really whats the point! i wont even bother ill let my silence speak loud and clear..when i deleted his number the first time around months ago it was because i wasnt impressed with the less than stellar efforts he was making to get to know me like call instead of text all the time and ask me basic questions to get to know me he conveniently used the excuse that he was a quiet guy and he still says that. Earlier today he sent me a picture via text it was 6 pictures of him in 1 frame all shirtless in his yellow shorts flexing and showing off his toned physique in different poses saying "look what your missing out on lol"..i told him that he may look good but what differentiates him from other guys who look just as good. You're right i think football has gotten to his head and he's mentioned how good they pay him so i figured he should at least be able to afford to wine and dine me but NOPE all i was getting was a "come chill" text!! but its clear to me now and with what you just reaffirmed that he is indeed just seeking free and easy sex so yes being told that im too difficult is in fact a compliment! i dont know why i seem to attract these arrogant cocky dudes - athletes seem to be the worst. People tell me im really pretty and nice but im trying to be not so nice and less naive -if this is all a big game for them id rather just sit out on the sidelines because i cant keep losing. when he said i could trust him i told him trust was EARNED -anyways they've had an unlucky streak 5 games in a row i seen that front and center of our local paper and he was thinking he could get lucky with me after i told him im not that girl!what a JERK!!!

Pisces Girl said...

btw one good thing i did take from previous posts was when he asked me to send him a picture last night i just flat out said no..and he actually seemed really surprised that i said no without any further explanation and he said "....?? so no picture??" i said yep last time i checked thats what no meant!lol he then said i dont get one of him either but today he ends up sending me one without me even asking him too.doesnt make sense.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Pisces Girl,
This guy's incredibly arrogant dear and very superficial. And because men are visually triggered, he's erroneously assuming women are the same. Women are triggered emotionally and intellectually - and he's COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS to that, LOL. He erroneously thinks thinks that the same things he enjoys (visual cues, photos), you do to - it's like he thinks you think like him, like a dude, LOL. He doesn't realize women need more than that.

And that tells me that he's very used to doing very little for attention from women and he spends his time around a lot of insecure women with low self-esteem (the one's who fall for that stuff to receive male attention.)

If he wants to see you dear - the real thing is much better than a picture - and if he was a gentleman and more well versed in women, he'd quickly realize that a date would be the appropriate thing here.

But you see, he's not a gentleman seeking a relationship. He's a player seeking a hookup. Big difference. And once you catch onto the differences between how gentleman proceed with women versus how manipulative players do - they're really easy to spot.

Gentlemen use social skills with women - players resort to manipulation (because they lack social skills).

Pisces Girl said...

"Gentlemen use social skills with women - players resort to manipulation (because they lack social skills)."

absolutely right mirror and i find that players are actually quite insecure because they seek women who will give them praise and validation and tell them how good looking and talented they are ..funny thing is since i didnt even respond to his last message he never bothered texting me back to try to make things right and get a proper date with me sighh but its ok because its his loss i dont think he's as wonderful as he thinks he is and i cant stand a man who thinks he looks better than me anyways. im not perfect but i certainly dont want someone who spends more time getting ready in the morning than me!lol yep he's a write off -and theres something to be said about how these playa boys are raised. It makes me wonder though because they all have mothers and a lot of them have sisters and other close females in their lives that they love and care about it and i just think to myself what would they think if the men in their lives were playing those types of games with them and trying to take advantage of them through lies and manipulation im sure they would wanna kick their ass or tell them to F off! but they'll still treat women in that matter and think nothing of it..but i guess in their minds if a woman allows it then why the hell not.

female body language said...

Women love the courtship when dating because it helps them determine who the guy really is. Action speaks louder than words and women are now wise enough to know the real purpose.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror!
I've been talking to this 28 year old Cancer guy for the past couple of weeks.

He asked me out, and I already gave him the go ahead to invite me to food or drinks.

When he asked me to text him anytime, I of course completely ignored it and gave him my number instead.

He texted me the next day, which was good.

I thought it was building up towards a date, because he asked me what foods I like, and also what my favorite place was.

But then he asked me, "Do you think that someday you can show me how (insert my favorite kind of food) is done?"

Huh?

It reminded me of this other guy I went on a few dates with - a Scorpio - who was really fun and upbeat, but he'd say things like, "I'd love it if you could take me to jazz sometime!"

I can't help but feel turned off.

Are these men worth giving a chance? Just feels like I'd have to constantly train them to act like a proper man who is confident and takes the initiative. Or do you think they are hidden gems / good men I'm overlooking?

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
As much as I'd like to say that everyone is different and who knows, in time, men like this (passive, feminine) may eventually "man up" (take the lead, masculine) - based on my experience, that's never been the case. Besides, who has a year or two to invest into a man like this, to encourage and support him in becoming a real man, ya' know?

These guys think they're being slick. But the reality is - they're being feminine. They're kicking back, taking a passive stance and they're expecting for the WOMAN to court THEM. They think it's slick, but the reality is that it's a huge turnoff to a woman that's seeking a masculine man with a leader-type kind of energy.

What the guy is suggesting to you in that comment about your favorite dish:

"Do you think that someday you can show me how (insert my favorite kind of food) is done?"

Translation:

"Do you think that someday you will invite me over to your place and cook for me and maybe sex me up afterwards?"

That's what a comment like that amounts to from a man you've just met that's never even taken you out on one date. He's testing the waters, seeing if you're down for an in-home, hookup, "buddy" type of date.

You can give him a bit more time if you like, but I'd set a limit at about a month to six weeks, no more. And if you spend the next two weeks communicating with him and he doesn't attempt to move things forward with a real date invitation - I'd just give up right there.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for helping me translate manspeak, Mirror!

I was starting to question my intuition, since it's been on a red flag alert for almost every single guy I've been talking to. But I know it's better to weed them out early; I believe the right men will get through the filtering process.

This past week, I've had several men reappear whom I messaged on the dating site - LAST YEAR.

The bizarre part is 1) I was the one who stopped replying them 2) they're all Taurus and 3) they messaged me again like they don't remember me at all!

One in particular - with a Mars in Taurus - texted me for 3 months last year. I was gaga over Libra guy at the time, and made up some story about not being over my ex to try to slow down the process with Taurus. The Taurus guy was understanding and even offered to go out for drinks, but I declined.

Later on, it was my friend's birthday and I invited him to the club, but he couldn't make it. I felt rejected, and annoyed - because he waited until the day after the event to tell me he couldn't go.

After updating my iPod software, I was unable to send iMessages. It kept saying error, not delivered. I got so pissed about it that I stopped using iMessage altogether - which meant that I stopped texting Taurus.

He resurfaced yesterday - and wrote a friendly personalized message...and sent a link to his picture. Said he wanted to get to know me better. He did not sound like he remembered me at all!

We talked on a different dating site last year, but still... how can he NOT recognize me by my pictures? I immediately recognized him when I saw his.

I feel like this is a lose-lose situation. If he DOES remember me and is acting like he doesn't - then he's playing a game. If he genuinely doesn't remember me - then I don't feel very special as I didn't make an impression on him during the 3 months we texted.

Either way - how would you handle a man who reappears and doesn't remember you?

I was the one who stopped contact, so I don't know if I should be as hard on them as a man who disappeared without a warning.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
I'd probably give him a nudge about it and mention it in some fashion like, "Hey, do you happen to remember. . ." and then gauge his response.

These things happen online unfortunately. So many women, so little time, only so much memory I suppose, LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

@Mirror,

Wow, embarrassing...I think I overreacted, haha.

I nudged Taurus, and wrote, "You look familiar...have we spoken before?"

And he wrote, "Yes, we did a long time ago! I wasn't sure if you remembered me."

So he was likely writing on the assumption that I didn't remember him, but he remembers me. *does a girly dance*.

I like that he doesn't make me anxious. He's not really deep enough and he doesn't make me feel emotional like Libra guy does, but I'm much more relaxed when chatting with him.

I was chatting with an interesting musician who is intense and deep, but I felt very anxious talking to him, the same kind of anxiety I felt when I was emotional over Libra guy. Both want to be adored and worshipped.

He also asked me to text him so we could talk "more fluidly." Not very fluid if I have to do the initiating, LOL. I deleted the message right away. My emotional health is important than any man.

Going to see how things go with the Taurus this time around.

I think I'm learning my lessons. ;-) Thanks again Mirror.

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Hello, I just came accross this site and I really like it!! Maybe you can help me. I am a 46 year old single female. My friend set me up with this guy, who is 35 and LDS or Mormon which I am not. Very different views on a lot of different subjects. We had been talking everyday for a month before he asked me out. We had a great time and chemistry. Two weeks later he asked me again but it felt like I iniciated the conversation to go out again. On the second date, he told me he wants to take things very slowly and I like that but he also mentioned that he had sex only once 11 years ago!!! right? and it was not a good experience. He says he likes me but how are we going to get to know each other if we only see each other once every two weeks? This week I don't have my daughter and he knows it. He called me yesterday (Wednesday) to let me know that he had car troubles and was going to work on his car all weekend. I have an issue with the age difference, I have an issue because he is LDS and for obvious reasons he really follows their believes but does not go to church and he drinks. He is a Taurus but for being one he seems very insecure. My gut feeling tells me to run but my silly heart tells me to give him a chance. What do I do? We have fun together, he makes me laugh and is very polite but..... Can I get some advice? Thanks.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous September 19, 3:45PM,
I dunno about this one dear. I think this may be too far out of your element. And not because of the age difference, but because of the difference in beliefs.

As I'm sure you're aware, the LDS/Mormon church is strict and some of them practice polygamy as well. I'm not judging for that, I'm simply saying that the difference in beliefs may be too vast to conquer is all.

And if you're gut is telling you to high-tail it outta' there, then I can't disagree with it dear as your gut always knows best, truthfully.

Anonymous said...

MOA,I have been researching many sites, about learning and understanding more on dating since I have met a wonderful man 2 months ago. I will try to keep this short! I came across this site, and I very much love these insightful articles with comments and stories that are similar to mine. Lets try a cliff note strategy here:- Ive been on several dates for almost 2.5 years, using a common dating site
- Met a man on the night I had a successful interview for a promotion, he unhid his profile, didn't think I would respond to him, shy, cute, my type, I knew what I saw and wanted, and the rarest thing happen: I asked for his number!
- days later, first date, sparks flew, chemistry, etc. For the next few days, hot and heavy pursuit by him.
- he is a virgo, I am a leo/virgo cusp
- he has been burnt before, badly, ex from 2009 cheated on him, got preggers by her ex...etc. he felt I thought he would be a loser for not being with anyone in a long time. so false. I haven't either.
- he is 28, I am 33
- we are both successful and pursuing our careers, passions, etc. He is "catching up" by taking classes, working 2 jobs, very busy, workaholic.
- after 2 weeks, the sparks started to die (on his end). Textbook signs here. I was getting emotional before he and I met, because I was getting bored with my job, and depressed. Which started to make a hole in myself....I became "needy".
-I started doing the female thing, wondering, seeking validation in secret ways...lol. Trying carefully, not to scare him or push him. Im cautious, but a part of me knows to back off thank goodness! Still, nature causes me to over-obsess.
- After one month, and less contact from him, no more texting initiated by him, I got the job offer/promotion.
- asked him to come over to talk about the promotion. He thought I was calling him over to break up with him because he has been so busy with work and school and knew he wasn't giving me much attention. I said no, I thought this was going to be a ticket for him to walk away from me. The promotion will require me to move several states away :(
- we talked, I kept it VERY short and brief, didn't want to have THAT talk. Just wanted to talk about boundaries, and if we can continue to move this forward as a LDR and slowly. He wanted that. And he mentioned that this has opnly been one month, and we need to see how we will feel when those honeymoon feelings wane.
-its been almost a month since then, lots of good and bad things in my life (stressful for the move) have popped up, I see him about once a week. I still don't get intitated texts from him (not going to explain every day and scenario, but that's the jist of it).
-latest example, he came over several days ago (yay!) and we spent the evening going out to grab dinner and bring it back with a movie, and snuggled, and held each other, light kisses all night.
- btw, we haven't had that passionate kiss together since our third date! Its like, we are attracted to each other, but he is and says he is shy, every now and then he says I am cute, and look gorgeous. So I have these small bits and pieces of validation....im still not use to such reduced affection from a man. I feel like I am dealing with a feminine energy, and I am masculine energy, as I have read above.
- when he left for the night (and again, its about 1 night a week, not usually a weekend, his days off are spent to do his own things, chores, etc, I give him lots of personal space, I respect his privacy, wont even go there with FB yet with him!), tons of smooches and hugging, and he hugged me from behind when I bent over to turn the tv on.....he texted me when he got home.

Anonymous said...

Its been several days, I sent him a picture with me and my cute dog he loves, showing him hello, and hope he;s having a great week. He responded within the hour or so, letting me know its been ok, and he hoped mine was going great as well. I knew he was working.
Interesting points- in the beginning, he was always texting while he was at one of his jobs, and the other job he leaves his phone in his truck while he is working and responds hours later. Im fine with this. But am I reading into this whole texting thing and lackthereof anymore?I am feeling like because of his nature, his character, and his past, that he is being very cautious for one. And then another, he may have trust issues. And now he knws I will have to move thousands of miles away for this new role. Since yesterday, I didn't respond to his last text, hoping I was having a great day. I wasn't sure if he was going to have time to come over last night, as he mentioned the other night that we will have to see if he has time, because he is leaving out of town for training this weekend (short trip). I am leaving this weekend, prob when he gets back from his trip, to go apartment hunting in my new area. When I get back, I just wonder if he will ever reach out? I only have weeks left to be here near him. I have had LDRs before, once. And we handled it well. I am more the type that if I know I have your heart, emotion, trust, etc, physical is only a plane ticket away. Im an honorable and loyal woman.I have since a month now, noticed I have initiated most texts by sending him nice notes, pictures (cute) to let him know I hope he's having a good day. But WHEN he comes over, MOA, its usually because it was "preplanned" and I am texting him to find out if he was still planning on coming over. I know, it sounds ridiculous! But that's what I feel I have to do, anymore, because I just never hear from him, he's so busy. I just feel like, most of the time, he wont reach out to me, because of his insecurities, or maybe he feels that since I haven't made a sexual move since our 3rd date (was hottest and heaviest, but we passed that test!), that he's just backed off and its forcing me to take the lead.I read your above articles and post about men taking the lead, men these days, etc. And I agree with you! I have not been attracted to someone in years, and I am glad he came alone and appeared in my life, I just wish he did it sooner. But now that he has appeared, I feel like I am dealing with a modern day man, who has both pursued (and wants to casually date, opens my doors, pays for everything,etc) me, and now seems to be forcing me to take the lead to keep this going. I don't know what to do. Other than keep biting my lip and not sending him a contact text when I get back next week to see and TEST if he will start to wonder.....and come after me? Or will his usual nature and insecurities take over....and walk away? I just can't read him well. I am totally convinced we have our roles reversed 50% of the time. This is frustrating! Please hold my hand!!!!!!!!!!!! lol! I hope you have time to respond.....love your brain and encouraging words. Give me strength to trust in him and myself ! -LeoLady

Anonymous said...

PS. Im just getting tired of intiating. AMEN. I know I am not the only woman here that has to feel this way! Its not fair to be in a wonderful attraction with a man, and feel like hes losing interest, and then this feeling of wondering if he will come back to me if I just stop talking to him.....ugh! Leolady

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 25, 10:16 AM,
"But am I reading into this whole texting thing and lack thereof?"

No dear. You should be paying attention to his ACTIONS and ignoring his WORDS. Because his actions are signaling to you that he's only half-interested :-(

"I am feeling like because of his nature, his character, and his past, that he is being very cautious for one. And then another, he may have trust issues."

Don't make excuses for him dear. It is what it is. And when men want something, regardless of what it is, they go for it. It's in their nature. So when they don't go for it, it signals that it's not a high priority for them :-(

"I have initiated most texts"

Not only that dear - you have initiated this entire relationship :-(

"that's what I feel I have to do, anymore, because I just never hear from him, he's so busy."

Why do you feel the need to nudge this along dear? Why do you feel like YOU have to keep this thing afloat? If you feel that way, then that means that if you don't keep this going, he'll let it drop. And if he'll let it drop, that should tell you that he's not genuinely interested. And if he's not genuinely interested, then why do you want to be with him? Why do you want to be with a man that is only half interested in you?

"I don't know what to do."

Why are you waiting for a man to signal to you or tell you what you should do dear? You don't put your life on hold and then sit and wait for a man to decide if he wants to be with you or see you or not. Instead, YOU make a decision for YOURSELF and you decide that this man cannot give you what you need or make you happy - and you let him go. You don't beat your head against the wall trying to convince someone to love you. You accept that it isn't working and you take control of your happiness and you remove yourself from this situation and you free yourself to find someone that wants what you want and that is willing to make you happy and give you what you need.

I hate to say this dear, but I have to so that you don't suffer a repeat here someday. This may hurt, but I mean you only good intention by doing so, not bad - so bare with me here while we explore this :-)

Let's take a look at the very beginnings here:

"I asked for his number!"

Unfortunately, when a woman pursues a man, which is what happened here (you have to ignore the fact that he started to pursue AFTER you did, because any time a woman does this, men who want only sex will also begin to pursue it) - it tends to have a reverse effect, leading to ultimate failure rather than success.

Part of that is because men don't actually like when a woman takes the lead. It denies them the opportunity to do so to get things off the ground. Additionally, studies have shown that when it's the MAN that initiates and is initially attracted to the woman - higher success rates leading to long term relationships are shown. When a woman initiates and is initially attracted to the man early on, the opposite is shown - this generally leads to a few sexual encounters and then the man disappears.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Why? Because he wasn't initially that interested in the first place :-( But because the woman made it easy on him and "picked" him and then gave chase (initiated and went after him), he figures, "Hey, I'll try this and see what happens." So he does. But in the end, there just wasn't enough of an initial interest in the very beginning, and he never develops or experiences feelings for the woman as he thought maybe he would - so he slowly begins to pull back and fade away, because he doesn't want a relationship :-( Like this, "after 2 weeks, the sparks started to die." And there's an old saying associated with this concept dear:

"sparks flew, chemistry, etc. For the next few days, hot and heavy pursuit by him."

"after 2 weeks, the sparks started to die (on his end)"

And that saying is, "Things that start off hot and heavy tend to burn out just as fast." So when things hit the ground running, rather than be excited about that and see it as a good sign - it should signal a red flag dear. It's not a good thing and it's a warning sign that reads, "Short fling, passionate affair ahead."

"I started doing the female thing, wondering, seeking validation in secret ways"

That's because your gut was signaling that something was wrong here - he was NOT validating you as you would expect in a situation like this. And that's another red flag dear. When you don't receive that validation from a man willingly, you don't go seeking it out. Instead, you accept that he's not feeling that way about the situation and you remove yourself from it before you let it damage your self worth and self esteem and confidence.

"im still not use to such reduced affection from a man"

Then don't settle for that dear. Don't go to him and try to force him to give you more affection. Just accept that this wasn't meant to be and tell him that while you've enjoyed yourself and you're glad you met him, you just don't think this is working because you're not getting your needs fulfilled. And you take control of your happiness and this situation proactively (instead of passively waiting on him to decide), and you end it. You free yourself up so that you can meet a man where you're moving to that WANTS to make you happy and finds enjoyment in fulfilling your needs and appreciates that you do the same for him.

This isn't working dear. You're not happy and he's not willing to make you happy. Accept that. Accept that nothing you do or say can make this man love you or want to be with you. Accept that he has to want this too. And do NOT listen to his WORDS because he can lie to you. You can't rely on words. You can only rely on ACTIONS. And if his actions are signaling that you're not that important to him, then you ignore his words and you accept that and you take control and end it and find happiness for yourself :-)

Many women, as you can see from comments on this site dear, experience what you have and have done many of the things you've done and experienced failures as a result. Such is life, it's the nature of the beast. We all experience rejection and we all make mistakes. That's what makes us human. If we were perfect, we'd be Gods - and clearly, we're not, LOL. The definition of insanity dear is, "doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results." Don't stick around long enough for him to drive you insane, LOL ;-)

Some people come into our life for a reason dear and sometimes that reason is to teach us lessons or help us grow in some way. So take a positive outlook on this and realize that a valuable lesson has been learned here - and be thankful for that dear. Because it will keep you from repeating it in the future and you'll spare yourself lots of pain and confusion as a result. It's actually a good thing, not a bad one ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks MOA:)
Im sitting at the airport now waiting to fly out to my new state where ill be starting a new life in a month. He texted me yesterday to have a good weekend. I will treat that as the last contact and walk away, onward and upward. Im a proffessional, strong, confident woman....always have been for years. He caused me to lose that for a minute, and im getting it back now. If he wants more of me, we will see what his actions prove. When we are together, his actions are clear. Its when we arent together that isnt strong or convincing. I will mark this as a learning opportunity and keep it casual like he wanted, and move on. If hes a man and wants to turn this around, if I ever hear from him again, then I will be the one to decide what he gets from me from now on.

I will keep you posted, loves. Thx again MOA. your words give me strength. I have been out with my friends for some time for weeks, and last night while I was out, met a new friend, and after talking for a few minutes, he looked at me and said , " your so kind and generous and sweet...so considerate...is there a special man in your life? Cuz hes a lucky man!!" Of course this young man was just a friend and way too young to hit on...but I had to look away, blush, and chuckle, shake my head. I said, " *sigh*, theres a man ive been talking to, but hes blind. Hes something. He just doesnt seem to see what you see, what my other male friends see.. A GEM. A diamond!! Hes not ready to receive me." The courtship didnt go the way it should. It can be turned around....a big fat maybe. But hes gotta be interested again, attracted, and ready. And I cant sit and wait for him. Maybe this was bad timing. Im ready to accept this and move on. Xoxo leolady

VirgoPal said...

Mirror-

How long should a woman wait for a man to call her after giving him her number? I met a Pharmacist two weeks ago at a holiday party. I was on my way out the door , and he then stopped me and asked for my number after we briefly had a positive interaction. I hesitantly agreed because I was caught off guard, and I can sense that he noticed.He texted me his number almost immediately after I left. However, I haven't heard from him since. I have learned not to wait around for men after my previous experience with reappearing/disappearing men, but I know eventually with this one we will cross paths again in the near future, hence, avoiding future interactions is likely not possible. I tend to think if a man's interested he will try to snag a woman very quickly. I'm not sure if my hesitant behavior caused some sort of uneasiness in terms of calling me, but I know I can't sit around and ponder the "what ifs." So if he calls, do I answer, or is his time up? I figure if I see him again I will just pretend I didn't notice his "absence" and go about my business as usual. However, I think in this case he may have to wait 2-3 days before he get a response!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@VirgoPal,
It's okay to respond in a couple of days after his first attempt. If he takes his time contacting you, you don't want to appear too eager by responding too soon ;-)

Anonymous said...

Dating when your still courting can really help because it will make you understand the personally of each individuals.. It will also helps you find your perfect Match.

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA, My friend and I were having a discussion the other day, and we were both curious to know to what extent are men "trainable?" Also, is there a correlation between how seriously a man takes his career/job and how seriously he takes relationships or is there no connection at all? I've heard of men compartmentalizing, so is this once instance where they would do that?

Know some men that take their careers very seriously, yet they have a completely different view on dating and relationships. For instance, men who wouldn't dare cancel client meetings have no issues cancelling dates on women and playing so-called "games," or men that would never allow a client to pay for a flight have no problems making a woman pay for the flight out to see them. Women, it seems, are just for their amusement.

So where does a woman that's serious about dating, draw the line and say okay, this one's got some issues but is not a lost cause - there's some good potential there, or this one's gonna be way too much work to fix so better move on to the next? How do you determine what's workable or not? After all, no one's perfect?

Perhaps you've already outlined this elsewhere on your site, but is there a general guideline that could be followed by women that want to avoid wasting years on unworthy men? And under what circumstances should a woman consider giving a man a second chance if he's made some errors in the "courtship" period?

Thanks,

Trainer

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Trainer,
"to what extent are men "trainable?"

I don't believe in that concept. Meaning, people ARE who they ARE - what you see is what you get. Sure, they can change for a bit to please someone else, but the reality is that when they're faced with stressful situations...they revert back to old comfortable ways of being, old patterns.

Here are some examples. My ex was a bit of trouble when younger. We dated 4 years, then got engaged. Now mind you, this was in our early 20's. He had cleaned up his act and seemed headed for a new way of being. He remained in that "new act" for quite some time...approximately 4-5 years. But then life caught up, bills and responsibilities now existed, stress, commitments, etc. And when that happened, he went RIGHT BACK to who he had ALWAYS been. And his last words to me one day were, "I don't want anymore responsibilities. I never did. I tried, but I don't want this." And that was that. He was who he was.

In another scenario, a friend of mind dated a man that was divorced and cheated on his wife. He claimed this was out of character for him, a once time thing. She married him eventually. A couple years went by and all was well, but when he became bored and disillusioned with that relationship, guess what he did? He cheated - AGAIN.

People are who they are and what you see is what you get. Many times, people don't change, only their circumstances do. And the only thing that brings about TRUE change, is usually a traumatic life event that forces it or forces a new perspective from a lesson learned. But many people just keep on making the same mistakes in life, over and over again, and never learn from them unfortunately.

"is there a correlation between how seriously a man takes his career/job and how seriously he takes relationships"

No. Those are two different things. One is about "self" (career) and one is about "teamwork" (relationship) - and guess which one wins most of the time, LOL? ;-)

"So where does a woman that's serious about dating, draw the line and say okay, this one's got some issues but is not a lost cause - there's some good potential there"

I say draw it IMMEDIATELY and save yourself a lot of grief later on down the road, even years later. But it's a personal choice really. How much can YOU take? How much can YOU give? Can you always deal with making it about someone else instead of fulfilling your own needs? And is that going to make you happy in the long run? It's a personal choice really.

But I will share this story that I shared elsewhere on this site today. It's about the boy and the snake and it demonstrates how a snake is always just a snake.

One day, a little boy found an injured snake in the grass. He brought it home, gave it a box, loved it and nurtured it back to health. Once the snake was healed, the boy reached into the box to pick up the snake - and it bit him. The boy ran crying and screaming to his mother. His mother calmly said to him, "Honey, what did you expect? It was always a snake."

Again, moral of the story? What you see is generally - what you get.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"this one's gonna be way too much work to fix"

You can't "fix" people dear. Only they can fix themselves and they have to WANT to do that.

"How do you determine what's workable or not?"

You set your own personal limits and boundaries for what you can and can't tolerate, for what you will and won't put up with and for what will and won't make YOU happy.

"is there a general guideline that could be followed by women that want to avoid wasting years on unworthy men?"

You could read this: http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/02/dating-feeling-helpless-what-to-do.html

"under what circumstances should a woman consider giving a man a second chance if he's made some errors in the "courtship" period?"

Again, it's a personal choice. But at the very least, only AFTER an apology has been granted and true remorse has been shown. The next step would then be only AFTER the man's WORDS actually align with his ACTIONS and he begins to PROVE himself a REAL man. If a man is saying one thing and doing another or making a bunch of flowery false promises that he then never follows through on...done.

Gemini50 said...

@ Trainer, your suggestion of "training" sounds like a whole lot of work to me that just doesn't work.
If you want to take on a man as a "project," you will be wasting your good time and energy.
Put that energy and work into you -- you'll get better results.

Anonymous said...

Great answers! Thanks MOA. And I appreciate the real-life examples you included which were very helpful. Truthfully, I would much prefer that the men come "trained" so that I can just relax & enjoy when out on a date. So far I haven't had any luck meeting the "pre-trained" kind so was wondering if I would actually have to start training the ones that are around, lol. But as both you and Gemini50 explained, training men seems like a lot of work for very little benefit so I will not put any effort or hope into that.

"And the only thing that brings about TRUE change, is usually a traumatic life event that forces it or forces a new perspective from a lesson learned."

This is SO true. Or you are a highly disciplined individual with tremendous will-power that takes your relationships just as seriously as your work.

"No. Those are two different things. One is about "self" (career) and one is about "teamwork" (relationship) - and guess which one wins most of the time, LOL? ;-)"

This mismatch between career & relationships/dating was always puzzling to me, but your explanation makes a lot of sense.

"You can't "fix" people dear. Only they can fix themselves and they have to WANT to do that."

You're absolutely right. Unless that individual is motivated to change, the change will never take place.

"at the very least, only AFTER an apology has been granted and true remorse has been shown."

As for second chances, if a man makes a mistake early on in the courtship period, is that in your opinion, much worse than say if he were to make the same mistake later on? I think I read somewhere that it's especially important early on in the process that the man put his best foot forward and try to make the best possible impression because he's in essense showing you how it's gonna be from that point on?


"No" to Training Men

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA.. I have read all your comments and from everybody else.. I really think that guys should court and "win over" the gal. On the other hand relationships and ways to interact with people are so fast and weird now, with all the texting and e mailing that It's difficult to act like when we were 20. I got divorced about seven years ago and haven't really dated anyone. So now I met this guy that I really really like and I don't Know what to do, expect or decide. In my "teen dating" mentality I have decided just to erase him from my contacts and forget about him, but I don't know If I'm being too strict and have to be more "modern"...I am so out of date in the rules about dating and all that complicated stuff. All that changed about three weeks ago when I met this guy. We exchanged numbers and I called to say “hi”.. he suggested we go out for a drink. The date was great. We talked a lot about what each other did for a living, we laughed and had a really nice time..after a couple of hours He said he had to leave, he paid for both of us and asked me for a cab, kissed and hugged me lightly when we said good bye.
Later he texted me saying he had a great time and that he hoped we would meet soon. The next week he said that he was leaving the country for work, but that he would contact me on “sunday”. Monday came and I got a text from him apologizing for his delay and proposed to meet at my place for a movie. I really did not want him to come over because it felt akward for him to come so soon. At the last minute I ended going to his place; which he warned me was not as “nice” as mine because he had roomates ans some other excuse..and apologized in advance. We had a couple of drinks and watched the movie. Obviously we kissed and made up for quite some time. Just like high school “second base” It was soooo great!! And he was very nice and romantic. I left past 2am and he texted me again that it was a great night and to let him know when I got home. By thursday he texted me just to chat, I suggested to meet later but he said he was busy. Saturday comes and he messages me at midnight basically asking “if its not to forward” to come over to his place. Told him I would love to but it was a bit late.
He said a couple of times he really wants to see me “soon”. And he’s going again on a trip next week.
I feel like he is NOT really interested in me. Just wants to have some fun. So should I ask him out or keep waiting for another text. I really don’t know if the rules from my dating era are still valid. Help please

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymou Mar 23, 5:09 AM,
NEVER ask a man out dear - ever. If you do that, you take the lead masculine role. You also have no way of knowing if the MAN is genuinely interested in YOU if you do that. If you do not pull back for HIM to pursue YOU, then how do you know if he really likes you or not....or if he's simply taking you up on your offer? You don't, which is why you need to pull back and see if HE comes to YOU.

A man wrote this article on the subject: http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2011/09/dont-initiate-contact.html

When you pursue a man dear, you place yourself at risk of being used, and it's about to happen to you as we speak. Look at the timeline of what's unfolded here. YOU called him first, then YOU went to HIS place for a date...and then it quickly degrades into him ringing you at midnight for a booty call at HIS place. And that's what happens dear when a woman pursues a man. She opens herself up to carrying the entire relationship along solely on her shoulders and then walks right into situations where she can be used :-(

"I feel like he is NOT really interested in me"

That's because you're doing all the work here to carry this along dear. Don't do that. Make him SHOW you something here via his ACTIONS and PROVE he's genuinely interested. And if he doesn't do that, then you have your answer.

"So should I ask him out or keep waiting for another text."

Neither. Do NOT ask this man out or he's going to zip you into the bedroom to use you for sex immediately and then he'll most likely disappear afterwards with a bunch of lame excuses after he gets what he wants. And don't sit around waiting for him to text either.

Pull back on this guy, don't initiate contact with him, do NOT agree to lame "sit on my sofa" dates with him and do NOT run to his place when he snaps his fingers. Instead, if he asks you to come over to his place, suggest dinner instead on another day and meet at a restaurant. If he balks at that, that's a red flag right there that he's not willing to treat you right and he's not taking this seriously. Make this man call YOU, make him take you on REAL dates (by refusing the sofa ones) and do NOT make yourself available to this man as a last minute option (refuse those offers). And if he doesn't man up, then you know what's up. You know he's not worth your time and he was probably attempting the easy way out here.

In the meantime, read these two pieces:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/08/how-do-you-value-yourself.html

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/02/dating-feeling-helpless-what-to-do.html

"I really don’t know if the rules from my dating era are still valid"

Gentleman still play by traditional rules dear....players seeking sex for nothing however do NOT. So the best way to filter a lazy player from a true gentleman...is by refusing lame date offers, not being the one to initiate contact and keep the relationship moving along....and sit back and observe the mans ACTIONS (or lack thereof) because that's what truly tells the tale of a man's motivations dear.

Gentleman do not sit and wait to be "courted" by a woman like lazy players do. Gentleman DO the courting. They man up, make the phone calls, ask you out on traditional dates and treat you with respect. Gentlemen do not invite you over at midnight to hang out on their sofa. That's disrespectful to a woman and they know that, therefore, they do not ask that of a woman.

If you want a gentleman dear, then stick to traditional ways of dating. If you want to be a part of this modern day superficial "hook up" society, then give into the modern way of doing things.

Because the approach you take determines the final outcome you end up with :-)

Anonymous said...

Mirror, I couldn't help laughing when you said "sit on my sofa dates." Anonymous Mar 23, 5:09 AM, what Mirror is saying is absolutely correct. It isn't too late to start protecting yourself. Refuse those "sit on my sofa dates" from men just like Mirror says. I've gotten plenty of "come sit on my sofa" or "I'll come sit on your sofa" dates, and just like you, I felt uncomfortable because I didn't know him well enough so I didn't let him come over (but didn't go over to his either.) Guys will put the pressure on you and invite you over/invite themselves over because it's just so easy, convenient and cheap to hang-out/hook-up. Because I never did the "sit on my sofa date" with the guy, he finally asked me out to dinner, but guess what, when that day came he cancelled on me so the date never materialized. (And he's never bothered to reschedule either.) So he was a half-interested, lazy guy looking for a hook-up only, not a relationship, so I basically dodged a bullet. Mirror helped me realize all this of course! So let him plan a real date with you if he wants to see anymore of you.

Good luck!


Say NO to "Sit on my sofa dates"

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

I've been on/off communication with a 31yro Jewish guy for the past 2 years from a dating site. He lives in the same city as Libra guy. He compliments me on my inner qualities a lot (rarely appearance), and genuinely seemed interested in my life (he asks a lot of detailed questions).

What I'm wondering is, do you think I should have waited for an apology - or just cut him off sooner?

So, the bad:
- I'm more interested in him as a friend than dating partner (perhaps he picked up on this) - but he's one of the few guys I enjoy talking to ALL the time (I can't even say this about some of my exes)
- once he got a new job, he stopped replying my emails (said he was too "busy"). When I brought it up, he justified his lack of response by saying his friends don't always reply his emails either. Said that's how some people are.
- asked me to call him. When he saw that I was not reacting, he ended up calling me.
- inconsiderate about dating plans -- insisted on a restaurant in his neighborhood (says the food is better) rather than where my hotel was
- he didn't reply my text the day I arrived in his city (said he switched to a new cell-phone provider that day, messages were lost); gave him benefit of the doubt...I did flake on our dinner plans, and changed it to afternoon (so I could meet another guy, LOL)
- couple months later - he helped me with something. He initiated a text to let me know... when I responded, HE DID NOT REPLY! (this pissed me off badly)
- another couple months later of NC, he messaged me online. I'm cold and took a long time to respond. He asked where have I been, blah blah. Tried really hard to get me talking. Then had the nerve to ask me when is he going to hear from me again. I said, "Maybe when you actually respond to texts." He replied, "Text me now and I'll text you back like crazy." I ignored that, went offline.
- a week later, he added me to Google+. Ignored.
- about 7-8 months later, he saw me online. He sent a message, ":-0" which I received later on. I replied a week later with, ":-?" NO RESPONSE FROM HIM FOR YET ANOTHER MONTH!
- I went back on the dating site recently (and changed my city to his, since I will be visiting). A day later, he messaged me. Tried to be cool and funny in the message... said he thought about me the other day... asked me what's up. I haven't responded.

I feel nothing but pure anger towards this guy. And I shouldn't let it get to me (I don't even like him in the romantic sense anymore), but his actions really tick me off.

Mirror, should I have cut this guy off MUCH sooner? Like when he stopped replying my emails? I feel like an idiot. He keeps initiating (making me think there's SOME interest there), and while I try to keep my cool by taking time to respond, he still doesn't reply back most of the time!!

Perhaps I'm just hopeful that one day these guys (well, just him and Libra guy) will man up. :-/

Sorry for the overly detailed long comment; part of it is wanting to give more details, but also to express some of my anger. Thanks as always for reading, Mirror. :-)

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
Well, while each situation is different, I think I probably would've stopped right here:

"couple months later - he helped me with something. He initiated a text to let me know... when I responded, HE DID NOT REPLY! (this pissed me off badly)"

Up until that point, he was being fairly reliable given the one or two excuses he provided which may have been valid, who knows. But that one right there above...no excuse.

But it appears that's about the time you kinda' gave up on him anyway, LOL ;-)

Either way dear, it's not a total loss here...you held your own with this guy well. When he started to flake, you didn't become insecure and "jump" or start "do, do, doing" - instead, you held your own, stood solid, forced him here and there to step up - and I believe he "heard" that. And when dating dear, that's really the best you can do, you win some, you lose some...but at least you didn't get run over and you left with your dignity ya' know ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much Mirror for pointing out that I held my own and forced him to step up. That makes me feel a whole lot better now (and less angry at myself and him).

Another thing bugging me recently is I have a couple guys who have shown interest in me over a span of 1-2 years ... and I don't reciprocate (for some reason I'm more interested in stalking their online behavior).

I notice every couple of months they go back on the dating site... message me (if I'm visible)...stay online for 1-2 weeks... then they take down their profile again. (Btw, I have messaged them in the past, but no longer respond.)

They're not casual "how are you" type of messages. They're ones showing romantic interest; one guy likes to repeatedly message me about how he still finds my profile edits funny, wishes he could know me, and wanted to talk to me again.

Then like clockwork, a week later... he vanishes.

I don't get it. What do you think is going on? Are they on a relationship break?

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
"What do you think is going on? Are they on a relationship break?"

Could be either or, but I wouldn't concern myself with it. Especially if you're not interested. Men circle around and around, like fish in a barrel LOL...it is what it is ;-)

Anonymous said...

Mirror,

One 33 year old friendly Scorpio guy I previously blasted about 1.5 years ago (I was annoyed by his multiple texts), circled back. You're so right about them circling around like fish in a barrel, LOL.

I'm wondering if you think he's using me for his fantasies or he's just a take-it-slow guy? We've been in touch for about 3 weeks.

Some highlights:
- asked for my number quickly, and texted me good morning / good night texts
- couple days in, he sent 2 pictures of himself (one was a silly one)..and suggested I send more pictures of myself. The picture request annoyed me (I have 7 pictures on my profile!!), so I just ignored him for a day
- he continued texting... and would ask about my weekend plans, yet not ask me out. After the weekend passed, he'd ask if I had fun, what did I do etc.
- a few days ago, he texted, "I'm actually looking forward to meeting you one day. :) I think our personalities really mesh." ONE DAY!?! I joked, "One day I'll be dead, don't say I didn't warn ya." He replied, "Why don't you want to meet one day? Just be text friends haha. Ok, we can talk until NOVEMBER lol" I replied, "Lol I don't need text friends." Then he said he was being sarcastic. Wished me good night, and repeated that our personalities really do match.
- after that convo, I pulled WAY back. I'm taking 24-48 hrs to respond to each text. He's sending multiple ones; I can sense him trying to get my attention. He emailed me a picture of a funny monkey yesterday.

I actually have started to like him when he shared some personal details about why he moved to my city. That's why I kept talking to him. But it sounds like he wants to talk until NOVEMBER before asking me out.

I guess part of me is thinking, what if I let him go and he is actually a good guy who just happens to need to take things EXTREMELY slow (he was previously in a 6 year relationship with a woman with kids back in his city).

You know how I'm crazy about hot passionate guys who sweep me off my feet, haha, so I don't know what to do about this one. He hasn't flirted with me at all; just shows me consistent attention, yet doesn't ask me out! It just feels like he's stalling...so he can date me later. He's starting to grow on me, which worries me. Don't know if I should NC until he asks me out.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
Well, no contact is only to be used on men treating you badly, or for you to get over a breakup and move on, or possibly to get your ex back. In this case, he really doesn't qualify for that. It appears he's attempting to get his foot in the door here, but he's unsure of himself, probably lacks a bit of confidence with regards to that and honestly...is striking me that he expects YOU to ask HIM out and take the lead here. Which tells me he's insecure and prefers to be chased most likely. And that's why a date isn't happening and hasn't happened.

You can do as you wish here, but if you like him, there's no harm in having casual conversation with him. Just keep moving forward and dating other men. Don't sit and wait around for this one to make a move. You can still continue speaking with him while you're moving forward and dating others, I don't see that as a problem. But I do have a sneaking suspicion that this man is waiting for you to take the lead and give chase. Insecure men tend to behave in that wishy-washy type of manner.

Anonymous said...

@Mirror,

Thanks for your take on Scorpio guy! After I pulled back and took 48 hours to respond to his text...he has been MIA for an entire week! Yep, officially a DM now.

I guess he realized I wasn't going to give him the ego boost from endless texting, and that I wasn't impressed with him sending me random pictures of monkeys.

There's finally a new guy I'm semi-excited about though... he's from Ukraine and has been here for 3 years. Wow, maybe it's the cultural difference but this guy has completely impressed me with his directness.

From asking for my name and number, then not BSing through endless texts, and going straight to asking me when he could call, following up with a call, then setting up a date for this Saturday. :-)

The only red flag I see is that his profile said he was looking for friends (since he's still pretty new to the city). So I'm not entirely sure if he's lonely, or he's genuinely interested in me.

Mirror, would you happen to know anything about Ukrainian men and how they date?

I tried googling, but there's nothing but websites about marrying Ukrainian women, LOL.

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Going through divorce but met a really nice guy about a year ago. I really like him. I accepted the sofa dates since I didn't want to go "out". Not a great move since things moved too fast. He has withdrawn quite a bit to just playing Words with Friends game online and occasional texts and halfway hookups (3rd base and a 1/2) every other weekend. In our last meeting, I just finally asked if he just wanted to "play" or if he was really interested. He said he is interested and wouldn't have proceeded if he wasn't but with my situation so uncertain he was uncomfortable getting too emotionally involved when I am going through the longest divorce known to man. But that our chemistry is incredible and he enjoys my personality etc. That maybe we should slow down the physical and increase communication and really see what we have because the chemistry is so blinding. I said ok. He seemed shocked and said "Ok?" I said yes, that I didn't plan on force feeding him and that communicating more and focusing on that would be good.

FYI...despite rarely talking on the phone, he does things like share information about his work and engagements. His accolades, if he is on TV or has something he can send a clip of (email, youtube videos, etc.) I feel technologically connected to his life but could not participate fully in person. He has invited me to things and I have attended three but of course not as his special friend or anything. (He is a pastor- divorced.) He is always very cordial and comes to speak. We chat a bit but I leave quickly so no one gets any ideas.

Well I would not initiate this increased communicating by texting or calling. He has texted a bit more but he really has increased these Darned GAMES more. I think he thinks we are communicating more! Do I clarify I mean talking on the phone?? Not texting and chatty comments Instant messaging in a game! Omg. He is 50! (Now, he DID tell me early on that he hates talking on the phone but he did a little bit in the beginning. Now, we MAY speak 10 mins. TOPS a week).

Well, I found out this week my divorce date is a week away. We got slid into a spot! (I am Happy- new page and Sad- 30 years down the tube) With my fella here though, I think I should hang on til then and see what happens when I am officially free. I haven't told him. In fact, I am thinking of waiting and telling him when it is all done (since I am sure I am in no danger of hearing from him via phone prior to the Big Day).

To do:
I won't see him again prior to my divorce
No more sofa dates......

Your thoughts on where we are? Suggestions on how to proceed? And the signs to watch for as I transition?

Thanks for the information. I am learning alot. Application is the thing....

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 25, 7:57 AM,
"Do I clarify I mean talking on the phone?"

I wouldn't do that just yet. I'd wait another 4-5 weeks for that so that the divorce situation can be addressed first, he can then be officially notified of the divorce events, and then given the opportunity to change his behavior after having that new knowledge. If he doesn't change his behavior after that, then that's when you can consider whether or not this is real or just something shallow.

"he was uncomfortable getting too emotionally involved when I am going through the longest divorce known to man"

Soon, he will have the uncomfortable aspect removed from the situation for him. So it's his actions after this happens that will tell the tale. If he steps up after that, great. If he doesn't, I'd seriously consider moving on because that means that was just an excuse :-(

pisces girl said...

Hi ladies! my question is when you are getting to know someone and you like them and want them to commit to you and be exclusive with you is using jealousy as a tactic a good idea? The guy im currently getting to know lives in another city so i havent even gotten a chance to go on a date with him yet! i met him a couple years ago and he just kind of resurfaced recently and we are currently getting to know each other. So far i like him and feel he would be a good catch but i dont have time to waste anymore. I would like for things to progress quite quickly between us but of course i dont want him to know that im in this mind frame or that make it seem that im taking control to push things along. i have already expressed to him that i would like for him to come to my city so we can get to know each other in person. I want him to be the man and do what is required to win my heart over. Is it ok to tell him that im dating other men since nothing has been made official between us? or will this just induce unecessary anger and rage and make him think im someone that cant be trusted or loyal to one man?i know trust honesty and loyalty from a woman is important to him. And i wouldnt be lying either its true that another man (not too interested in him though) who lives in my city has asked me out(just to go for icecream but still! lol) can i tell long distance man this?perhaps it will make him make the 3.5 hr drive to come see me sooner than he is planning to -he hasnt even set a time frame to come he's just saying hopefully soon but what is that?? set a time and a date!

Thanks for any advice!
ps- i dont want him to think he "has me" until he's made it official and put forth the necessary effort required. Isnt this the MOA way ? he does seem like the jealous type-could this tactic work in my favor?

piscesgirl said...

Update to my previous post! so Mr from another city came to my city as planned last week and correction it's only a 3 hour drive (not sure if that's considered long distance??), anyways I was really excited for him to come and finally get to know him better in person after a month and a half of messaging and talking on the phone. He came on a Friday evening, picked me up from my house and from there on we basically spent the whole weekend together-till he left on Sunday evening. On Friday night I didn't stay at the hotel with him but on Saturday I did and even though things did get pretty hot between us we didn't have sex but i knew it wasn't a good idea for me to stay because the temptation was definitely there. I didn't plan on staying and I know I shouldn't have but with him being from out of town I just wanted to spend more time together and i didn't know when i would see him again. I also hadn't cuddled with a man for so long and that's all I really wanted to do with him. We vibed together pretty good and I surprisingly felt very comfortable and at ease with him and the feeling as he told me was mutual-it was nice. He was a gentleman too- holding doors open, and paying for dinner and drinks when we went out and he bought us tickets to go see an equestrian show-something i've never experienced before. I appreciated the thought and planning. He also met my best girlfriend and was nice and respectful towards her and she really liked him too. Not to mention I was attracted to him. I was worried about him being shorter but he is actually a little taller than me when im not wearing heels, and on top of all of that he's smart and educated. Sounds like a perfect catch right???hmmm, im not so sure.... i'll get to that in a minute.

piscesgirl said...

We went out one night with my girlfriend and he drove and bought us drinks and acted right till we decided we wanted to go eat after because we were all starving. So we get there and he orders his food and then turns around and asks me and my friend if we wanted anything. My friend insisted when we got there that she was paying for her own food because she just has too much pride like that but i was watching and observing to see if he would let her pay. In my culture a man would be insulted if a woman in his company tried to pay for anything no matter how small and i was kind of hoping he would be that way. But she ended up paying for her own food and he obviously had no problem letting her do that and then he asked me if i wanted anything-obviously i did because we all agreed we were hungry but i just said i was ok and he didn't press me or insist i get anything he just said ok and ordered his own food and we left. I guess i just have to accept that men from different cultures are different and it wasn't so much about a ten dollar donair as it was about the fact that he didn't really take charge of the situation and i just felt like he he was happier just paying his own food. So that did bother me a little even though my girlfriend thought i was over reacting and he was a perfect gentleman. When we got back to his hotel he ate it all front of me-sure he offered me a bite but i declined. i was still starving. I was a little disappointed maybe i was over reacting and just looking for some fault in him but regardless he sensed the changed in my attitude. We got to talking a little and all i told him was that i have high expectations and that there are cultural differences between us but i didn't mention why i was actually bothered...he then went on to say that he had been nothing but nice and a gentleman and then -you wont believe this, he mentioned (something along the lines) of how i was the one acting like a princess because i hadn't reached into my purse for my wallet the whole time and he said that was just him being real with me....my mouth almost dropped when he said that! i couldn't hide my disappointment and i told him that everything nice and gentleman-like that he had done up until that point had been wiped out with that one comment and no man had ever made me feel bad about paying for me. And it wasn't always easy for me to let him pay for everything and sit there and not offer but ive decided that is the kind of man i want in my life and for my future-the kind of man who is able and willing to take care of me(and any future children) and make sure im well taken care of and provided for and if he cant make a small invest in me in the beginning of courtship- than when??i know there are men who are more than happy to take care of their woman because that is what makes them feel good. My sister has that with her man and there is never any mention of what he does for her and how much he spends on her or worse yet him having the nerve to say she doesn't reach into her wallet and pay for stuff. He knows better and she wouldn't deal with him if he was like that.

piscesgirl said...

Anyways, after that i kept that comment in the back of my head and since it was his birthday a couple days later i took him out for a nice dinner somewhere the next day and paid i also gave him nice bath and body works lotions...we then spent the day in the park just walking around and talking and then he left. We stayed in touch but i wanted to make sure he felt like an idiot for making that comment and basically told him that was such a turn off and again mentioned the cultural differences and how inappropriate that was..he called me this past Friday to tell me he wanted to be spontaneous and go to the mountains with me. I wasn't sure if he was being serious or not but i definitely was not planning on taking a long drive after a long work week and being tired. The next day (Saturday) i asked him if he was still coming that night (i knew he wasn't) but it was worth a shot and i told him i was excited to see him again and then he said if i was serious we could meet at the halfway point between our cities for 7. After reading the rules again i realized that even meeting halfway is tantamount to me going to him and its true that men can drive for hours to go watch a football game or in his case hop on a plane to go see a football game on the spur of the moment. So he should for the first few months be coming to me.And he should be initiating the meetings, planning the dates and yes paying!i do feel a little bad because until i take possession of my condo he cant stay with me so he has to stay in a hotel. He did ask me again when it would be ready and told me he cant wait to cuddle with me in my fancy condo..that comment made me wonder if staying in a hotel is a big issue for him. After i didn't reply to his meet me halfway text he messaged me back a couple of hours later saying we should leave it for another time when we plan it out more. Lol so he was basically trying to reject me -on Friday he was Mr spontaneity and on Saturday he wanted to make plans..smh so i replied by saying lol i wasn't planning to go and i don't drive long distances like that(halfway point is only 1.5 hours lol). i thought he would of called me after that and he did- 3 times in the middle of the night! so i didn't answer...... i want him to know that if he wants to talk to me he has to call me an appropriate time....So the next day i was expecting a call from him but there wasn't one just a message late in the afternoon asking me how my weekend was. No mention of the 3 calls in the middle of the night and i know he was drinking that night from his picture the next day so it could of been a drunken phone call which im glad i dodged.I didn't reply to his last message asking what i got into on the weekend because i wanted a damn phone call (at an appropriate time)and he knew something really important was happening this weekend in my family and he didn't bother to call me to ask me how that went arghhhh so very frustrating!!! i know he's stubborn and also has a bit of a superiority complex too and thinks im attracted to him mainly because of the degree he holds.Sure it helps but i told him being a lawyer is a professional designation and that's not what makes him a man. I always tell him things like that so he doesn't think im too enamoured by him for that reason alone or think that id be afraid of losing him. He still hasn't called me since Saturday night and not even a message today. He recently updated his picture to -"too many critics with no credentials" hmm wonder if he's trying to make some kind of point there lol i really don't know what to make of this man Mirror.......

piscesgirl said...

he had been a gentleman for the most part and he makes me laugh before he gets carried away and then he just becomes annoying, he is intelligent and he is also spiritual like me. We have pretty good conversations and feel comfortable in each others presence. There are a lot of qualities i like about him- a lot of pros but there is no perfect man in this world-what is a girl to do...sighhh should i reply? or should i continue to let my silence speak here? i made it clear to him that im still in the dating scene since he isn't my boyfriend and were not exclusive and i had a life before him and there are men who are interested in me and they are taking me out and treating me well(and there is no sex). I wanted to tell him that so he knows im not sitting by the phone waiting for him to call but the truth is i wish he did..i really just don't know how to determine when a man's faults and imperfections can or cant be overlooked. At the end of the day i want a man who can make my life better and easier and never make me feel less than because i have no credentials(maybe that wasn't directed at me though??)..your thoughts mirror? am i being too harsh? i know i made some mistakes along the way too but for the most part ive been trying to date with more self esteem and confidence and have the im the prize kind of attitude.i have to force myself to believe im worthy. He asked me if im scared of him hurting me or just indifferent. The truth is im scared but i didn't tell him that so maybe that's why im finding reasons to push him away.. i don't know im so confused right now:(( men like him don't come by every day but i don't want to over look the ungentleman-like behavior and stupid things said either. Now is when the boundaries need to be set after all you teach people how to treat you. i feel like the distance may be an issue too since hes been so adamant about me meeting him halfway and being reasonable. He has come once already but how many times can or i should i expect him to come especially when i want him to pay for everything including his stay at a hotel? i want to be reasonable and fair too but i feel like i shouldn't be trying to make things too comfortable for him either

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Pisces Girl,
"how i was the one acting like a princess because i hadn't reached into my purse for my wallet the whole time and he said that was just him being real with me"

I don't like how he said that. Using the word "princess" there is a derogatory slam if you ask me. A woman is NOT acting like a princess if she doesn't pay...SHE'S ACTING LIKE A LADY. If he wants a dude or a gal pal, he should go find one. But on dates, women should behave like ladies and men - should BE MEN.

"no man had ever made me feel bad about paying for me"

Don't feel bad about that - he - as a man - should feel embarrassed for speaking disrespectfully to a woman like that and calling her names like princess - acting like a friggin' school boy on the playground calling names.

"it wasn't always easy for me to let him pay for everything and sit there and not offer but ive decided that is the kind of man i want in my life"

You deserve that dear - don't let him convince you that you should settle for less than you deserve.

"if he cant make a small invest in me in the beginning of courtship - than when?"

Exactly. If he's showing signs already that he's unwilling to "invest" in any way with you now, then it won't get better, it'll get worse. And if he's not prepared to invest like that to impress a woman and show his willingness to do so - then he shouldn't be dating. My male friends that cannot afford to date like that - don't date - and when I ask them why, they come right out and tell me that they cannot afford to treat a woman as she deserves to be treated and they don't want to disrespect her or embarrass themselves by not being able to - so they simply just don't date, until they're able to do it properly.

"has a bit of a superiority complex too and thinks im attracted to him mainly because of the degree he holds...being a lawyer...He recently updated his picture to -"too many critics with no credentials"

He DOES have a superiority complex. He probably uses that degree to impress women and honestly, a cheap lawyer is a real turnoff - it's just about as bad as a cheap suit. When you have the money to date properly yet you still refuse to do so, then you call the woman names like princess because she's expecting to be treated like a lady, treated special, and she's behaving as one, and then you post something insinuating that she's got no credentials like him - you're signaling that your ego is in your way. He has a big ego dear and that's not a good sign.

"but there is no perfect man in this world - what is a girl to do"

No, no one is perfect dear - but that doesn't give you a right to say hurtful things to them, call them names or make them feel bad about themselves. What's a girl to do? She's to date only the men that make her feel good. She's to date only the men that treat her with respect and that she enjoys spending time with. She is NOT to date men that make her feel bad about herself. It's really that simple - date only the men that give you positive, good feelings - and toss away the ones that don't.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"i really just don't know how to determine when a man's faults and imperfections can or cant be overlooked"

When they don't make you feel bad - when being with the man, in spite of his faults, is still an enjoyable experience for you. When it's not, it's time to go.

"At the end of the day i want a man who can make my life better and easier and never make me feel less than because i have no credentials"

If that's what you want dear, I don't think this man's willing to give or invest in that manner with anyone. It's been one weekend, and he's already calling you names and making you feel bad about yourself, and insulting you by signaling that you don't have credentials, while he does - as if that makes him better than you. I think if you continued dating this man, you'd find him to be very arrogant.

"He has come once already but how many times can or i should i expect him to come especially when i want him to pay for everything including his stay at a hotel?"

I'd say initially, you can expect him to do that at least the first 3 times, if not more. If a guy isn't willing to go out of his way for you for a measly 3 dates, when clearly he makes a living that provides enough for him to easily do this, it's a red flag. If he's not going to go out of his way for you now - then what does a future with this man look like? I'm starting to think he's seeking a doormat that he can boss around and call names to and behave arrogantly towards (and she'll take it) - I don't think he's looking for a real woman that's strong and confident - because I think he'd actually compete with a woman like that (because of his arrogance and ego) and it's probably one of the reasons he doesn't date lawyers like himself. Not only are they "take charge" masculine types, but they're confident and strong in a sense as well, and I bet he doesn't like that.

He said he likes a feminine woman before right? (If this is the same guy I remembering). Well, doesn't he realize that feminine women - EXPECT TO BE TREATED LIKE A LADY? He said he didn't date lawyers because they're too masculine and leading...but then he turns around and calls you a princess for submitting to his lead on the dates. So what does this man want? Does he want a woman that is masculine and pays her own way - or does he want a woman that's feminine and acts like a lady? If it were me, I'd be curious for him to answer that question, because he's talking out both sides of his mouth there. You can't have both - you can't have a feminine woman that takes charge and pays her own way - because THAT'S NOT FEMININE, it's masculine. So what does this guy want?

He either dates masculine women that take charge, lead, and pay their own way - or he dates feminine women that submit to his lead, let him take charge and pay their way....but you can't have both - because the minute a woman pays her own way - she's behaving masculine, which he previously said he didn't like. So I think he needs to become more self aware about his own behavior to figure out what the hell it is that he really truly wants - because he's talking out both sides of his mouth.

If he wants a woman to pay her own way and behave masculine, the he should date those female lawyers he referred to previously. If he wants a feminine woman who submits to his lead, then he better get used to actually manning up, being a man, taking the lead and providing for her.

He wants his cake (feminine submissive woman) and he wants to eat it too (but she pays her own way, like a masculine dude). He can't have both. He has to pick - does he want a feminine, submissive woman, or a masculine, leading one? That's what I'd be interested to know. He's probably not having luck dating because he's seeking something that doesn't exist.

pisces girl said...

exactly mirror! he cant have both! and i basically told him that if he wants a real lady he needs to act like a real man plain and simple and i was very forth coming in telling him that if he is more concerned with saving money or not spending it maybe its best if he just focus on his career and make that his priority and he told me he doesnt want to do that (pick his career over me). Yes he is a lawyer but in all fairness he just graduated last year and told me he has 70k in student debt and he is technically a "student at law" until october when he gets sworn in by the judge. But he still manages to take trips and do a lot of things that involve spending money and his finances shouldnt be my concern anywaysa. I know what i want and i told him im not willing to settle. And i also know he has high expectations for a woman and her being feminine, thoughful, reasonable and trusthworthy are among the most important qualities he wants and i am all those things. Im very feminine and he even told me he loved that about me. And he wants someone who finds him funny and even when i dont i still laugh and he wanted a woman who feels relaxed around him which i do.And he even admitted that he likes a woman who challenges him and holds him accountable which i also do. So he finds what he is looking for and now he's at risk of me seriously contemplating walking away..thanks Mirror

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