"Mirror, Mirror on the wall . . . where did he go, and why doesn't he call?"

The Benefits Of Courtship When Dating

Things sure have changed. These days, there’s a lot of “blurring the lines” between what was traditionally referred to as dating (courtship) and what is now commonly referred to as hooking up (brief casual sexual affair).

These are two entirely different things folks. Dating and courtship have a much greater chance of leading to a long term relationship. Hooking up is not dating and has much lower chances of success. As a matter of fact, the longest relationship, correction “arrangement,” that you can expect from a hook up is approximately 3 months – and that’s really pushing the maximum amount of time. More often than not, hooking up tends to amount to no more than a two week, to one month, long casual affair – otherwise known as a fling.

Don’t confuse the two. They are entirely different processes that will lead to entirely different outcomes.

There are reasons that Mother Nature invented the courtship process. It serves a very definitive purpose and a very important one at that – for both parties involved. You see, when the courtship process is taking place, there’s a lot of non-verbal communication taking place. There’s a lot going on behind the scenes subconsciously and a lot of information is being transmitted via behavior, gestures, body language, unspoken language and the subtle dynamics of feminine versus masculine that ultimately result in the ability to prove oneself worthy as a potential long term mate.

Let’s explore, shall we?

Traditional Dating: The Benefits Of The Courtship Phase


Traditional dating, otherwise known as the courtship phase, is a concept that refers to a process that involves traditional gender roles when it comes to male versus female – masculine versus feminine energy. It is a process that is traditionally done with the male taking the lead, masculine role – that of “impressing” - and the woman taking the submissive, feminine role – that of “observing.” And it’s also the chosen process of the true gentleman. (Punks, players and insecure men prefer the much easier hook up method which grants instant gratification to selfish needs and feeds ego. )

The courtship process involves what could commonly be referred to as a mating ritual. Just like in nature, when you see colorful male birds, puffing their feathers, dancing in front of a female bird, attempting to win her over in an attempt to prove himself worthy of successfully mating with her – that’s how the courtship process works.

The male initiates the courtship and during the early phase, he attempts to impress the woman. He makes special gestures meant just for her and he shows her that he is a good provider, that he is masculine, and that his leadership is to be trusted. If the woman happens to earn more money, a true gentleman still feels it’s important to prove himself worthy in the early stages of the courtship process.

Much the same way the male Satin Bowerbird seen here builds a fortress of seduction as a courtship display to attract a female mate. It’s not a nest, it’s a bower – a bachelor’s “play” pad. All of the efforts placed into the construction of this bachelor pad are intended for one sole purpose – to mate. (Men, there’s a lesson from Mother Nature here: Effort (and Romance) = Successful Mating. )

Male bowerbirds instinctively know that female bowerbirds are attracted to the color blue. As a result, blue objects tend to be the chosen trinkets gathered and presented as gifts, to adorn the seduction pad to lure the female bowerbird into it.

However, the female bowerbird doesn’t simply enter the first male bowerbird’s seduction pad that she comes across. Oh no. The female bowerbird visits all of the other male bowerbird’s seduction pads in her locale before stepping into any one of them to mate.

Is the female bowerbird a gold digger? Is she seeking a rich male bowerbird?

No. She’s seeking a good mate – one worthy of her attention and the luxury of mating. Because you see, in Mother Nature, not every male is privileged enough to mate. The mere fact that male genitalia are carried does not grant males the privilege to mate in nature. Male mating rights must be earned. Female mating rights are granted because females possess the ability to give the gift of life. (Which is why you don’t jump into bed with any man that comes along, ladies. Because he could end up the father of your child. It’s a fact, females have much more at risk when mating.)

A female bowerbird instinctively knows that a male bowerbird’s willingness to go the extra mile during the courtship phase signals him as a male that’s earned the mating privilege. And she will not enter the seduction pad until she’s reviewed all of the other male bowerbird options in her locale and she’s decided that this male bowerbird - is the one worthy of mating privileges.

She’s a smart cookie. She knows that a man’s willingness to provide is closely associated with his masculinity. A male bowerbird that falls short on his courtship display or the building of his seduction pad doesn’t get to mate – because the female bowerbird doesn’t feel he’s the best male representation of her species. And yes, female bowerbirds will even walk away from a male bowerbird seduction pad that includes a dollar bill (no joke, male bowerbirds have even stolen money as trinkets to include in their seduction pad displays).

To the female bowerbird, it’s not about money. It’s about the male’s willingness to provide for her and to properly earn the privilege of mating. The concept she’s focusing on is the male’s willingness to prove himself worthy of mating - not his monetary value.

It Amounts To A Comparable Difference: Provider And Leader Versus Non-Provider And Lazy



Imagine a man that’s found himself unemployed and out of work. A man that may be broke but at heart, has a “willingness” to be a good provider, to prove himself worthy and to do what he must do to provide for his mate and his family. We’ll call him Man A.

Now imagine a man in the same exact situation only this man lacks a “willingness” to be a good provider. We’ll call him Man B. Now, take those two men, each in the same exact situation, and let’s take a close look at the vast difference in ultimate outcome that results from each.

Man A: The Provider Who’s A Leader

Man A, the guy who is broke but has a willingness to be a good provider, will do whatever he can to provide. If it means cutting grass in the neighborhood, to doing odd jobs for family or neighbors, to taking a lower paying job just to keep food on the table – he will do it. He will man up and do whatever needs to be done to fulfill his male role, that of provider, and to prove himself a worthy mate.

As a result, Man A’s mate becomes increasingly impressed with how hard her man works to provide for his family. Her respect for him increases daily and she becomes very supportive and nurturing of him, encouraging him to continue to make forward progress and to be the best version of himself he can be. Man A’s efforts and willingness to provide keep the bond between them tight and their support of one another becomes the glue that keeps them together as a family unit.

Man B: The Non-Provider Who Is Lazy

Man B, however, is a different story. Man B sits on the sofa all day long doing nothing but making excuses for himself. Man B becomes resentful of the burden his mate and his family represent. He becomes difficult to speak to, he begins to distance himself from his mate and his family and he does nothing to improve his situation. Rather, he looks to his mate and he places the responsibility to provide squarely on her shoulders. As a result, Man B’s mate begins losing respect for him as a man, begins viewing him as a less worthy mate, and finds it increasingly difficult to be supportive and nurturing of him. Man B’s lack of effort and willingness to provide have caused a huge rift to appear in the bond between him and his mate and their support of one another begins to deteriorate, resulting in the ultimate breakdown of the family unit.

That’s the difference folks. It’s not about money, it’s about willingness, manhood and worth. And I imagine that many of the women reading this can relate – and would prefer to choose Man A over Man B as a long term mate. And it’s the courtship process that reveals a man’s willingness to take the lead role of provider. Unless you’d like to see Man B sitting on your sofa, resentful and unapproachable, I’d suggest using traditional dating and the courtship process as the path to a meaningful, happy, healthy, mutually successful long term relationship – for men and women both.

Because we can easily reverse the above roles, so let’s explore that for a moment.

It Works Both Ways: Nurturer And Supporter Versus Controlling And Demanding


Imagine a woman that’s an independent modern day woman. We’ll call her Woman A. She’s a woman that, regardless of her personal situation, is “willing” to fulfill her natural gender role of nurturer and supporter.

Now imagine a woman in the same exact situation only this woman lacks a “willingness” to be a nurturer and supporter, rather she prefers the lead role. We’ll call her Woman B. Now, take those two women, each in the same exact situation, and let’s take a close look at the vast difference in ultimate outcome that results from each.

Woman A: Nurturer And Supporter

Woman A is a woman that may or may not have money of her own, but at heart, has a willingness to comfortably fall into her natural role of supporter, nurturer. She is supportive, warm and nurturing (feminine). Unfortunately, her mate has found himself unemployed. However, Woman A, being the supportive, nurturing, feminine type begins to act like a cheerleader of sorts to her man. Encouraging him to be the best man he can be. Regardless of his lack of income, Woman A knows that if she fails to be the supportive force here, she will fail her mate and prove herself unworthy of him. She encourages her mate to push forward and through her nurturing support, her man feels more empowered as a man, assured that his mate is behind him 100%, and it is this support that compels him to successfully find employment in one form or another.

As a result, the man is forever grateful of the supportive, loving, nurturing effect Woman A’s presence brings into his life. She has proved a worthy mate. He knows that regardless of what happens, Woman A is there. She’s not going anywhere and she will continue to support her man in his endeavors. And it’s this reassurance and support that is received from Woman A that becomes the driving force for the man to rise and be the best man he can be. As a result, their bond is strengthened and it is her support and encouragement that becomes the ties that bind, keeping the family unit intact.

Woman B: Non-Nurturer, Controlling And Demanding

Woman B, however, is a different story. Woman B may or may not have money of her own, but at heart, she is “unwilling” to fall into her natural role of supporter and nurturer (feminine). Rather, Woman B is the opposite – she is demanding and controlling (masculine). Unfortunately, her mate has found himself unemployed. And Woman B, failing to be the supportive nurturing feminine type begins to act like a tyrant. She fails to encourage her man and to support him in any way. She fails to prove herself a worthy mate and fails to realize that she has a role here to play. She feels it necessary to emasculate the man, believing that negative reinforcement will somehow have a positive effect. She begins to point out his shortcomings and his current inability to provide. She fails her mate as a woman. Her emasculating comments and her tyrannical dictator-type control, her masculine energy, begins to outweigh that of her man’s and her man begins to feel like much less of a man through her eyes. Her lack of encouragement and support combined with her constant demands fails to compel the man to successfully find employment in one form or another.

As a result, the man becomes resentful of her oppression and begins to view her as unworthy. He feels stifled as a man, he feels weak and powerless. She effectively removes all of the things necessary for his success from the equation (freedom and power). Woman B’s man knows that regardless of what happens, Woman B will not be there for him and he will be unable to please her. He knows she will leave him and never fulfill her natural role of supporter and nurturer. And it’s this fear and oppression that is created by Woman B that becomes the destructive force in the relationship, thus resulting in Woman B’s man becoming increasingly unwilling to fulfill his natural role of provider. As a result, neither is any longer “willing” and their bond is broken and it is her lack of encouragement and support that becomes the wrecking ball that destroys the family unit.

There’s Much To Be Learned From The Ways Of Mother Nature


In Mother Nature, courtship rituals abound – and have remained since the dawn of time. It is the courtship ritual that helps both parties to learn what they can expect from the other and prove their worth to one another, displaying what each can contribute and bring to the table. It is the courtship ritual that reveals both parties “willingness” to fall into their natural gender roles.

What can speculatively be gleaned from the examples above is this. A man that fails to be a good provider in the early stages of dating will fail to be a good provider during the latter stages of a relationship - when it’s needed most. A man that fails to prove himself worthy in the early stages will prove himself unworthy in the latter stages. A woman that fails to be a good nurturer and supporter in the early stages of dating, will fail to be a good nurturer and supporter during the latter stages of a relationship - when it’s needed most. A woman that fails to prove herself worthy in the early stages will prove herself unworthy in the latter stages.

Get what I’m throwing down, folks? You feel me?

The courtship process serves a purpose folks, for men and women both. Skip over it and you’re not going to have a clue as to what you’re truly going to get in the end – until it’s too late. Perform the courtship ritual miserably or incorrectly, and you signal yourself an unworthy mate.

These are primal, biological concepts that are deeply ingrained in mankind. They haven’t changed in eons and they aren’t going to change anytime soon. Men look for a woman to be a good supporter and nurturer (feminine) – one that will help them achieve success and become the best man they can be. Every good man wants a good woman by his side and you’ve all probably heard the old saying, “Behind every good man is a good woman.”

And women look for a man to be a good provider (masculine) – one that is willing to do whatever is necessary under any circumstance, regardless of monetary worth, to provide and care for his family in order to become the best man he can be and to have a woman by his side that is a reflection of himself – the best woman she can be.

Conclusion: Follow Your Chosen Path



The above scenarios are simply that – possible scenarios that can potentially develop from the multitude of unspoken dynamics that take place within relationships. They were simply meant to be used as a demonstration of the “energy” exchange that takes place in relationships (masculine versus feminine).

They were also meant to show you how an individual’s behavior in the early stages of dating can translate into similar behavior later on down the line - thus, reinforcing the importance of noticing, not overlooking, red flags. And reinforcing the benefits of the courtship phase when dating.

The point is: Following the rules of Mother Nature and doing the work will reap you the greatest rewards - rewards that lead to ultimate success, happiness and fulfillment within relationships. Take the easy way out, take the shortcut and the route of the hook up – and you will fail time and time again to obtain happiness and fulfillment.

A hook up has higher odds of leading to a brief affair. A courtship has higher odds of leading to a long term relationship and also provides you valuable insights into the individual you’re dating. Thus granting you a peek at the “big picture,” what life with this individual would be like, should a relationship begin to develop.

It’s all in what you want folks, either a brief fling with a person you hardly know that leaves you feeling confused and used or a long term relationship with someone you’ve taken the time to get to know that leaves you feeling fulfilled and secure – so chose your path wisely and proceed accordingly.

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188 Comments:

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA, thank you for this article. It feels empowering to know what the courtship process should look like and what the roles are meant to be. I was raised in a family where my father was an example of Man B and my mother Woman B. Consequently, I feel that I was exposed to a distorted view of a family model for years, which still continues. My goal is to have a happy and healthy family unit one day and to be an example of Woman A. What can I do to fill myself up with the right views and values about how to be a supportive nurturer - apart from reading your blog :) ? Should I keep contact with my parents to minimum, so that I don't get soaked with the negative vibe? I feel like I sometimes do certain negative things when dealing with men (like controlling or complaining) unconsciously because I witnessed my mother behaving this way. Please help me find ideas on how to unlearn these. I very much appreciate your views and help. Thank you in anticipation. Kind regards.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
I understand that learned patterns from upbringing come into play. And I think the best thing you can do for yourself is learn how to separate the good guys from the bad. Because you see, a bad guy like man B, he'll bring out the worst in you, not the best.

A good guy, like man A, will bring out the best in you. You won't feel compelled to become woman B if your with man A. See what I mean?

Because energy "feeds" off of similar energy. Just like with your parents. Your dad being man B, brought out the woman B side of your mom. And your mom being woman B, brought out the man B side of your father. The end result was a vicious energy cycle taking place...negativity feeding negativity...that created more negativity.

So I think a good man would help to bury the woman B side of your personality. Because if you have a good man like man A, there's no need to become woman B ;-)

Also, I think it'd help you, when you feel woman B coming to the surface inside you, to stop and recognize who's in control there - woman B. if you're conscious of her presence inside you, and you learn to recognize her, I think you'll be better equipped to deal with her when she arrives, LOL.

If you find a man that is a good man, one that is supportive and nurturing of you and willing to go the extra mile for you, he'll bring out your woman A side. So filtering out the men in your life carefully, and only permitting the worthy ones to be a part of it...will solve the bulk of your inner turmoil :-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks for this advice- it makes things much clearer! I'll work on emitting happy energy to attract a good man.

You made me realize that the previous guy I dated was in fact a bad guy who brought out the worst in me, and I blamed myself for being negative and accepted it as my fault, rather than a response to his selfish behavior.

Now I know that I haven't been selective enough.But after reading your advice, I feel much more confident that next time I'll get it right :) Thanks MOA!!

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA, first of all, let me thank you for having this blog. I really respect your advice, and right now, I need it!

I met a guy (Aquarius) on a social networking site three weeks ago, and I really like him. He’s creative, funny, and kind of shy and geeky (just how I like ‘um).

While it’s obvious that he likes me too, he doesn’t come on strong sexually like guys usually do. He does the little gentlemanly things, and he makes me feel so good when I’m with him. I can never predict his next move, and I’m captivated.

We’ve been on a few dates now, and in the beginning, everything was good. But I’ve noticed, he doesn’t really put as much into the courtship as I’d like (no flowers, not a lot of romance, doesn’t put much thought into dates).

Also, he’s started to pull back. He takes HOURS to reply to my texts. There have been times where I’ve texted him in the morning, and he wouldn’t get back to me till 9pm or later.

He does work a lot (he’s working fulltime and starting a business), but still, I’m sure he gets a lunch break, and there have been times where he logged into the site we met on but didn’t text me.

Rewind to four days ago – I’d already met up with him the day before, and he asked to see me again. I said yes (ugh). When he arrived, I noticed he was acting a bit distant and aloof, but I didn’t say anything about it. We went out to eat & didn’t really converse much throughout the meal.

Afterwards, we went back to my place. We were cuddling and kissing on the couch, and after about an hour, he gets a call.

I don’t know what was said (he’s from another country & was speaking in his native language), but when he hung up, he said, “I gotta go.” No explanation, nothing, just “I gotta go, I forgot, I promised my friend something.”

This threw me completely for a loop. I was so taken aback, I did act out a little bit and he knew I was upset.

He did apologize to me at the time, and promised to come back that night (I declined), but it left a sour taste in my mouth. I’ve been ignoring most of his texts and giving him short, neutral replies when he does write.

He asked if I was mad at him, I said no, I’ve been busy, etc. He then said he missed me & asked if I wanted to go out the next day, I said I already had plans, but told him I was free next week.

He agreed and we’ve agreed to meet next week on Mon, but it was only after I agreed did I realize that he should have made some specific plans instead of playing his “let’s just do whatever” game again.

I wish I’d found this site sooner, because I’ve already made waaaay too many mistakes with this guy, and I am kicking myself! I’ve agreed to last minute dates and vague plans, been too giddy about him, texting him way too much and seconds after he wrote, being too available, and I’ve offered to help pay for dates. He always would turn me down, but the last time, he accepted!

He’s only been in the US for a few years, so I let my guard down a bit, rationalizing that “he’s not like men in the US,” and blaming blatant bad behavior on “cultural differences.” Yeah I know, slap me!

I really want to see where this goes, but I think I’ve let him get too comfortable. I’m wondering if you think I can do some damage control and get this back on the right track? How do I let him know that he should be putting more effort into planning our time together? And he texts all the time and rarely calls, what’s up with that?

Thanks so much for taking the time to read and respond to this!

Confused Capricorn

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Confused Capricorn,
Well, first of all, I'd suggest that you no longer contact him. Let HIM contact you. It's the only way for a woman to know that a man is genuinely interested. (At least during the courtship period. Once a man has asked you for a commitment or if he's contacting you regularly for an extended period of time and proving he's genuinely interested, then you can begin to initiate communication - a bit.)

Next, I would not always make myself available to a man that's behaving this way towards a woman. (He's taking you for granted.) When a man takes a woman for granted, she should not always make herself available to him. Instead, she should make him work at it a bit (to prove himself).

And with him texting and not calling, I'd suggest you invite him to call. When he texts, saying something like, "I'd love to talk, but I'm busy right now. But I'll be around later today, gimmie' a call this evening."

And if he texts, don't respond - until he calls.

Regarding the dates and him not having any plan in place, before you accept the date, say something like, "What did you have in mind? What are we going to do?"

If he says, "I don't know" then you say, "Well let me know what you've decided and we'll go from there." If he says, "What would you like to do" then you tell him. Say, "I'd like to go to ____ for dinner or I'd like to _____."

Before agreeing to anything, make sure you press him a bit about WHAT it is that he intends for you both to do.

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA, thanks so much for your advice. It really helps to have another perspective when dealing with relationships, because it can be hard to be objective when you’re right in the middle of it.

After the last text exchange I had with Aquarius, where he’d asked if I was upset, I didn’t hear from him for two days. I did feel a bit bad because that was the first time he'd gone more than 24 hours without contacting me, but I decided to keep busy and continue living my life. I’ve been talking to two other guys that I’m interested in dating, because I realized I’d already invested too much of myself in this dude who hasn’t given me anything!

I accidentally pocket-texted him a blank text message, and a few minutes later, he called, sounding really happy and asking why I sent him a blank text. I played it cool and jokingly said “you don’t have to make up excuses to call me.” Ha!

He was asking where I’d been & saying he missed me, I told him I’d been busy etc. I followed your advice and insisted that he make plans for our date. He started enthusiastically throwing all of these ideas out there, and we finally decided to go to a museum I’ve wanted to visit for a while.

When he came to pick me up, he showed up with flowers and a really thoughtful gift that I was rather impressed by (I’d call it a grand gesture), and the date we went on was the best by far. I got to see his romantic side, and he really went out of his way to make everything special for me. It was a complete 180 from how he was acting last time. I felt like he was finally treating me like someone who is important to him.

My demeanor was different also. I’ve done some research on Aquarius men, and they like freedom to do their own thing. I had to consciously quell my Capricorn tendency to be aggressive and let my femininity shine.

So instead of acting all clingy and smitten by him, I was sweet, but slightly aloof. I had fun wandering off and watching him chase me around when he noticed I wasn’t standing there. He was so much more affectionate and attentive when I ignored him a little and let him pursue me.

This is honestly the first time in my life that I’ve ever dated “properly.” In college, I was the “chill at the house” girl and had a few mediocre relationships that ended badly. I got frustrated with my bad luck, so I stopped dating after I graduated and focused on my career.

Before I started dating again, I read both of Sherry Argov’s “Bitches” books. I couldn’t believe how many mistakes I’d made, and I’d never really been “courted” by a guy before - I was making it WAY too easy for them. I wondered how my friends were getting flowers and romantic dinners, and I’d be lucky to get Chinese takeout and Blockbuster.

Self esteem issues were a big part of it, I just figured I’d scare them away if I insisted that they work harder.

But not anymore, my thinking is, if I’m not worth his effort, then he isn’t worth my time! Amazing how much we can learn from doing a little birdwatching!

Thanks again for your help!
Confused Capricorn

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Confused Capricorn,
Dont ever forget dear - youre worth it. You are worth it.

Every woman desrves to be appreciated like that...and let me tell you, every man deep down inside...loves the feeling it gives them too. If more of them would just do it, theyd realize the benefits.

I guarantee you sweetie...hes feeling very manly and proud of himself right now. And its your job as a woman to lift him up for that and encourage him, appreciate him back. Create that healthy, positive flow of energy between the two of you...and it will become a sustainable life giving force that "feeds" the relationship.

Youll both become addicted to the wonderful feelings it generates ;-)

Dont expect too much...but dont settle for less than you deserve.

Sista'Taurus said...

@Moa

Thank you for another inspiring post.I especially loved the bowerbird example.I had to giggle at the little pad of seduction and scattered BLUE trinkets/petals-AMAZING!

It's really that simple-gender roles.Very clear associations and I hope no one is still left confused or in doubt after this wonderful read.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Sista' Taurus,
Yep, it's really that simple - gender roles. Mother Nature assigned them eons ago and they still exist to this day. Although many things have changed in modern times, when you boil it down to it's base form, it all leads right back to these very primal concepts deeply ingrained within mankind.

As humans, we are part of Mother Nature - part of the natural cycle of things. When we deviate from those natural cycles, we deviate from our path and lose our way.

Follow the natural order of things, the path that Mother Nature has provided - and you will see time and time again that it proves itself to be relevant - even in these modern times.

You can also take a natural example of a courtship and dating/mating ritual from deer. Every year, male deer fall into what is known as "the rut." This is the time of year when females are in heat and the males sense it and are fighting for mating rights.

Because again, in Mother Nature, not every male is granted the right to mate. As a result, the male dear take to fighting with one another, battling with horns locked and kicking one another - in front of groups of female deer, doe. And it is the witnessing of this ritual, this warlike behavior between the males, that grants the winner the luxury of mating (impressing).

And it is the female (observer), the female deer, that ultimately decides upon the chosen mate:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130130111920.htm

We as humans are mammals. And in nature, mating rituals and courtship displays are a natural part of the mating experience :-)

The problem is, nowadays, many males, not all but many, fail to realize their natural role (leader, impressor) and many females fail to realize their natural role as well (submissive, observer).

And it's the main reason why males and females nowadays are fumbling around in the dark with one another - unable to understand each other and unable to perform the natural gender roles that will/would ultimately bring them together and grant them happiness and success when dating.

Never stray from Mother Nature's path. She's one of the greatest teachers in this universe :-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Sista' Taurus,
And to answer your question on the disappearing man post about whether or not I'm "sensual" about things and if I'm attracted to "natural" things as is a Taurus tendency. . .as you can see, the answer to that is yes, LOL.

I take a very natural approach to all things in life and I have a strong aversion to anything that is "unnatural" in any way. I too enjoy soft fabrics, smells, touch and anything related with the 5 senses.

I do this in my home often when decorating as I consider it my sanctuary. As a result, it has to be natural and appealing to the senses. Comforting colors, textures, scents, lighting, etc.

Friends sometimes don't understand it, but then when they enter my home, they often remark about how much they love it and feel very comfortable in it and they often remark about how something smells good there - I keep wax tarts burning in warmers in my home often, LOL ;-)

Sista'Taurus said...

@Moa

Haha,isn't that awesome though,how us being ruled by Venus translates into our lives like that?I too have made my house into a sanctuary,I love everything natural and have an innate aversion towards anything artificial.

I actually only dyed my hair once and do not even get fake nails,lashes,nothing.My home is white at its base with earthy tones all over.Now that I look around,it looks like a hobbit's house LOL..I absolutely love the best of everything,it's not about brands but about quality..if it feels good to the touch,I have to own it.I'm no snob,I just love good things.

Guess there is something to astrology/mythology after all :)

Thank you for your answers!Looking forward to more topics like this.

I don't know if it's because I've really been on a self awareness path and trying to digest all you share here,but I really have gained clarity.I mean,from now on,if I see a man behaving unmanly,I will cut him right there,in the beginning stages.No need to delve deeper,looking for his 'missing' manliness lol.And that will save me so much drama!I don't know but it really makes sense to me now as I've accepted that it is what it is.I am a woman and they are the men.I will act like a woman and they either deliver or they get nothing.SIMPLE!

Alana said...

MOA -

I know I just posted on the other page but thought this might be a more appropriate place for this question. :)

One of my new suitors seems really sweet - puts a lot of effort into dates, does a lot of research into restaurants that he thinks I'd like, books me in advance etc. We've only been on 3 dates so still very early days, but occasionally he would text me to tell me weird and bizarre things about his day etc.

The ONLY thing that bothers me about this guy is that he doesn't always return texts when I reply - or sometimes does so say 9 hours later or even a day or two later.

Considering that this is the phase where he should be proving himself, should I say something/point it out? I've experimented by doing the same to him myself, or even not replied to the odd text, but it doesn't have a huge impact - still slow. Either he just doesn't check his phone very often or something.

What do you think?

-Alana

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Alana,
"Should I say something/point it out?"

No dear. Actions, not words ;-)

You use a technique that's called behavioral mirroring - and you begin to mirror his behavior. So if he takes 9 hours to reply, you take 9 hours to reply. If he doesn't reply to one, you don't reply to the next. If he takes 3 hours to reply, you take 3 hours to respond.

Because if he's doing this to you right now, it's perfectly acceptable for you to mirror that behavior. That's how you create balance, keep things fair (someone can't complain when they're doing the same thing ;-), and that's how you let him know that you're world does not exist around him right now - and if he wants it to, he needs to step up his game a bit.

"I've experimented by doing the same to him myself, or even not replied to the odd text, but it doesn't have a huge impact - still slow."

Doesn't matter, keep doing it. Because as things progress, eventually, this will matter to him and he'll begin to notice the pattern. He'll make the connection that he's doing it to you - and he'll cease doing so.

In otherwords, eventually he may want more of your attention. And he'll realize that if/when he does - he'll need to give you his attention if he wants yours in return.

Alana said...

@MOA

OK, let's see how this works out then. Thanks very much for the advice!

-Alana

Alana said...

@MOA,

Sorry to rehash this again, but about this mirroring technique - wouldn't he figure out that I'm playing games?

The longer we do this, the more I worry that we are both just texting each other every other day now (ie he texts me today, I text him tomorrow, he texts back the following day etc)...

-Alana

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Alana,
It's not a game dear. It's creating a healthy balance and teaching consequence via action. When your dog pees on the floor, you don't reward it with a treat...there are consequences. People learn via action, not words. You can't instruct someone to do something. You can only show them via your actions what is and isn't acceptable.

This is how you filter out lazy men from genuine ones. If his behavior doesn't change as a result, you don't beat your head against the wall attempting to get him to do what you want him to do.

You move on, realizing he's not going to "man up."

That's the whole point...filtering. If he doesn't step up - you don't waste your time.

You're free to do as you please here. But if it were me, I'd stop wasting my time, realize he's never going to attempt to make me happy...and I'd move on.

These are the techniques to use so you know which men are worth your time and which aren't.

If his behavior is signaling that he's uninterested...then you move on.

Never make someone your priority while they're treating you like their option.

Alana said...

@MOA,

Thanks for the honest advice. I suppose it's still early days after 3 dates - and he just got back from his business trip, so I'll see if things improve over the next little while and put him on watch.

Thanks again!

-Alana

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA,

I have a question relative to dating and communication. A friend I grew up with contacted me on Facebook, after a couple of days it was obvious his intent was more than to say Hi. Because of the stigma attached to dating people from your past or online I had my doubts about where it would go. I am not sure if the flow of things was even correct but I went off of his initiatives. We started off texting a couple times a day, just catching up on life. After about a month we also began to talk on the phone. From there we started video chatting on a regular basis. Most of the time we talk about work, school, our family or short term plans. Around 6 months I agreed to meet up but made it clear that my boundary was kissing. He was a gentleman and did not even attempt to push the limit. Afterwards we continued communicating as before and he asked me what I thought about us dating long distance. Things were adding up for me and I realized that I was emotionally attached to him. I seriously considered the long distance between us and was not sure if I wanted to risk moving forward. I was scared to say the wrong thing, but I told him that everything was happening too fast and I needed more time to make that decision. Then I backed off, I used the kids, and school and whatever else that was going on as an excuse to be busy. I even shut my Facebook down. We gradually went from texting everyday to once every two weeks. I don't text until he does. For the last two months conversations were basically, "good morning, I'm fine, how are you. He did not ask if I wanted to talk or video chat anymore. Then the two weeks ago he asked me what I was doing. I was not sure why he decided to ask something different but I replied using more than 2 words. We ended up talking on the phone. Things seemed normal until he asked me my relationship status. I told him I was still single. I asked him if he was seeing anyone and he told me that he had met a nice lady but is still getting to know her. He has been texting everyday since then, but its back to "good morning and how are you". At this point my goals are to respect that he is seeing someone but not become too distant. I would like to try the long distance relationship. But not under the current circumstances. However, I am not going to ask him how they are coming along either. My first question is why would he want to tell me about his relationship status? If he is getting to know a nice lady, why would he start texting me more often? Are these red flags that I need to pay attention to? What would you suggest I do?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Hmm, seems a bit odd to me to be honest. I'm wondering if he didn't contact you to inform you he's met someone so he could see if you'd "jump" on a relationship with him (i.e. compete for him).

If you'd like to continue communicating with him, feel free to do so. No harm, no foul. But as long as he's dating another individual or currently involved, I wouldn't move towards a long distance relationship (at least not until he's single).

Anonymous said...

@ MOA,

Thank you for the quick response about him telling me he was seeing someone. I am so glad I found your page, before I was using my instincts. Although I mirrored him and things flowed, I think I got stuck when I had to make a decision. Mainly because I felt that 6 months was not enough time to know someone in a long distance situation. Does the general relationship timeline for things apply to long distance? I have no way of knowing his relationship status. Am I right to assume that if he is interested he will come back and tell me if he is single? Should I use the no contact method with him at this point?

Anonymous said...

Whats going on is am a Scorpio woman into a Sagittarius man he was recently heart broken by the girl he used to call his one the girl of his dreams his princess he asked her to be his alot!!!! And all that time I was considering him a friend and was into his best friend but after a few convos found out he was in to me just for the thrill of getting me but I got over him easily so my new crush used to talk to me about his girl and I gave him advice and asked him to be patient and all he used to be jealous of people approaching me and told me that while we were friends and he was still hocked to her we got closer then he was drifting away I texted asked then after trying twice I stopped he told me he knew he was mistaken and told me what happened with his girl so I told him I was ok with it but I'm just worried about him and i was sorry for not being there the next day he became more rude his actions became hurtful then he did stuff that made me look bad in front of friends I still talked and wanted him to open up he did things that made that the last time I asked about him so this was it I started being me very formal not trying to reach out or nothing I could see it in his face that he wanted to talk and apologise I totally ignored him and a friend of mine came one day and we were having a good time and I knew he was staring once I got home he asked wjo that was I was like a friend he told me he was worried that ild be late for home and I continued acting cold and was never available anymore he couldn't find or see me anywhere talked to my sister and was really concerned and wanted to make things right I didn't give him any attention the next day he asked me tosit with him and talk we sat he asked me to say all that's on my mind andI said nnothing much now he gives me attention and is very sorry tells me nice stuff but all the time he says thatbi stopped caring about him and I never gave him a straight answer now he said he was sick and I did give him some attention and I really am worried the problem is I don't know howbto act around him anymore for starters I never start a convo anymore never ask where he's been never do anything to make him feel cared for now he keeps telling me he misses me am beautiful and most important person in his life he wants to talk to me all the time make me think he has things to do then when I say k t.c he be like I only wanted u to answer what should I do helpppp

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
He's attempting to manipulate you emotionally. He's attempting to make you feel guilty when he's the one who was rude and he pushes your buttons simply to get a reaction.

He's been rude, he's embarrassed you in front of friends and he sounds very immature.

You don't need to do anything here. If his actions have changed the way you feel about him and the fact that you cannot trust him because of it, then that's his problem, not yours dear.

All of these things he's done to you here in the past, he will do in the future if you enter into a relationship with him - because he's immature.

You don't have to do anything here dear, he does.

Anonymous said...

So if he talks to me how long should I take before I reply and when should I be nice and when should I go back to the cold face

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
I don't think you should waste your time on this man dear. But if you choose to do so, how you handle that is up to you. There are many articles on this site that you can glean insights from.

Anonymous said...

Dear mirror I'm in that point where he asked me if I was taken told me never to be nice to anyone other than him held my hand told me my eyes r all he needs to see all the time gave me all that lovely attention sat with me for hours talks to me when ever am online wantsyto kknow where am at what am I doing all the time sents me awesome songs I'm falling for him the problem is he was just heart broken by his crush I have no idea if he got over her that fast or is he trying to make her jealous or is he really into me please moa tell me how to slow down

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Sounds like he's running away from his problems. Don't set yourself up to be his rebound.

You don't need to be told how to slow a relationship down dear, I'm sure you're perfectly capable of that yourself.

You simply say no, that you're not ready. It's really that simple.

June said...

Hello MOA
Kudos for this amazing website! I'm glad to see there are other women like me who are sick and tired of dealing with flaky and dishonest men out there.

Tulisaa said...

June I had felt the same for a number of years until the right man walked into my life. It does happen and when it does it can take you by surprise!

Anonymous said...

Hi M.O.A.,

I believe i am in t right place & you would be the right person to shine some light on my dating life.

I've been dating someone for nearly half a year now. Compared to t the first 4 mths, our meetups/dates were kinda sexual & communication was at t bear minimum once or twice a month. I had somewhat placed this relationship between him & me as something casual. eventhough i did start having feelings for him and i really love the comfortability & chemistry between us.
I can feel that he felt it too but both me & him weren't t type of ppl who can easily open up about our feelings.

In the last 2 weeks things seem to have picked up speed.

We had went on a short vacation together. We had a wonderful time talking, hanging out, romancing, chilling out & of course being intimate but in a sweet, loving, pampering way. He was really v attentive towards me & i felt that sex was just secondary.

He had proposed t vacation initially saying that he had somethings to discuss but we never got to that.

A week of silence later he called me & i reminded him that i totally forgot abt the talk we were suppose to have during t vacation but that i had forgotten all abt it becoz we were having a great time.

He opened up about saying that he knows that we have been seeing each other for some time and he didn't want me mistake him for taking advantage of me. And if i was still dating other guys besides him. I stopped him and asked him if he was happy w me becoz i was happy when i am ard him so why don't we just enjoy each other's company instead of trying to call it sthg.

Couple of days later he booked me way in advance to take me out for dinner which was out of t norm as he usually used to ask me out last min or only gave me couple of days notice.

T last date w him was sthg totally different from our previous dates.

He made an effort to come closer to my workplace to take me out for dinner instead of the meeting up half way or closer to his pad kinda thing.

Just sat had a lovely dinner & we were have a gd conversation. And he stayed on and took me out for coffee just to hang out longer w me. We sat and talked work.

He suggested that we should try to hang out on Saturdays when he is not working, i jokingly said don't you have to hang out with ur stags for guys' night. He just replied he doesn't have to to it all t Saturdays.

When we had to part he pulled me close and gave me a kiss in public. It was just a lovely feeling, nothing sexual just the feeling of being loved.

He has been calling me every 2 days from that night on before he had to hit t sack. I was out late on of t nights becoz of work and he sounded half asleep but was hanging on t phone to ensure till i was back home safe.

He is suppose to be going away on a work trip & jokingly even asked if i wanted come along. Teasingly saying that he is going to miss me but a little but already have a date to meet up with him t weekend right after he is back.

All of a sudden he is starting to show more love, became communicative, wants to spend more time with me, shows care & concern.

In all t months i have known him this is t first time i'm getting to see his gentleman side and i can't help myself but constantly thinking about him, wanting to be with him. Not sure if i have been bitten by t love bug but i'm not eating or sleeping well neither as i have him on my mind. i can feel that he wants more with me if asking me jokingly when i'm going to propose to him marriage.

How can i not screw this up? I don't want toconstantly be at his disposal and end up recipocating to the point that he will lose interest in me. How should a real lady go about handling this 360 degree turnaround of a relationship?

Please advice...

Anonymous said...

I know that he is now closer to me becoz of t way i had distanced myself while just being myself w him. He on t other hand has been through some unrequited love affairs and he even had been a rebound affair for a girl who didn't accept his love hence he carries a little bit of insecurity which he shared w me about him.

I do want him to keep courting me in t new way that he has started to and i hope that he will slowly but surely man himself up to take my hand in his own firm decision.

Is this a normal thing for a man to want to work on a relationship in this manner especially at one that started out as sexual? I'm just curious

Anonymous said...

Hi
Love your blog n advice..one of the rare online that help women raise their worthy vibration..so wonderful
I am 50 and dating is v different these days...I spent 1 1/2years with a guy who was 6 month out of a marriage and didnt want a relationship - I knew red flag but connection was v strong and we journeyed till. Pulled the plug and said I wanted to be with a man who claimed me not on a leash....I made all the mistakes becoming Florence nightingale rescuer / therapist....learnt a lot that I have an anxious attaching style from childhood etc
Anyway I went on a date Saturday night..met guy online...he was v v smooth and smart too..we got on well through texts and a v long phone conversation..he was extremely complimentary of me (I am actually an exceptional woman!!) he always texted and initiated and I answered calm light n breezy..he organised date..drove an hour to see me etc..we had a great fun night....he drank a bit excessively but I don't drink so perhaps it's normal!! He wasn't roaring drunk but he was v alpha male, seemingly confident (hiding vulnerability) he was a strong guy but made me laugh in a good way..he said he felt he had known me a 100 years...I felt same we were v v comfortable with each other...we were both surprised....he told me I was stunning etc etc......the date went well and was a bit longer than expected..yes we had some cuddles n sweet kisses but that s it........he stayed on my couch as too drunk to drive (my mistake as I shouldn't have rescued him and I know that now infact when he asked to stay we both agreed no sex and hesitated to invite him back- but there was no sex) and I had told him in our call week before date I don't have sex with men before I am in relationship - he is the type that would charm women not sex easily!! Anyway he left and said "talk soon" I deliberated about sending a thank you for date text and decided to as that's my way to be polite and have gratitude.....I sent a brief text thanking him, that I had enjoyed the time and I didn't ask when will I see u again etc.....he answered with lad you enjoyed evening as I did..and hope you had some smiles reminiscing our time together...I answered a day later yes did enjoyed your spirit and would be good to do it again and have a great day..just v light n breezy.........and NOTHING! That was 3 days ago...I need to know what did I do here.......to learn for myself..as an ex anxious attacher I think in this instance I actually held back and leaned back more than ever.....he initiated all texts , our call and date set up prior to date and was v v enamoured during date but fizzled after!!!! I am curious to understand........should I just wait to its over before even started....!!! Maybe I shouldn't have initiated thank you text (the only thing I initiated in 2 weeks), maybe he's a player, womaniser, didnt get sex so can't be bothered, any number of things..perhaps it's a NEXT......and he said a few future things as well.........said I was the coolest and best woman!!! Ahhhh yes I know words over action...thanks. Love your blog n sensibility helping women to find inner self worth..I am working on this and feel I am getting clearer ..ps I haven't sent any more texts since my reply to his...so in that I am also doing better than my past..thanks and love xx

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Well dear, I think you attempted to take the lead (masculine energy) and steer the relationship towards a second date instead of saying absolutely nothing and drawing him towards you (feminine energy) with a mysterious silence.

This happens a lot. Many women alter their behavior once they like a man without realizing it. Let me explain.

"he always texted and initiated and I answered calm light n breezy"

You see, he always text and initiated (masculine energy) and you always answered calm and breezy (feminine energy).

But then you swapped the roles:

"I sent a brief text thanking him, that I had enjoyed the time"

And then:

"I answered a day later yes did enjoyed your spirit and would be good to do it again"

In a subtle way, you took the lead, you kind of took matters into your own hands and you hinted at a second date. To a man, this somewhat registers as you asking for a second date.

"he initiated all texts, our call and date set up prior to date"

Then why did YOU attempt to do these things AFTER the date instead of continuing as things were and hanging back and permitting HIM to do that again? See what I mean?

"Maybe I shouldn't have initiated thank you text (the only thing I initiated in 2 weeks)"

I think you gut is trying to speak to you here. It's unfortunate, but when a woman makes herself too available to a man and expresses eagerness in the very early days (before HE asks for a commitment), it tends to invite poor treatment from them and they begin to take the woman for granted.

Men like a challenge and by making yourself available to him, it removes the challenge (the fun of competition) for the man.

My suggestion would be to not contact him again and to continue casually (no sex) dating other men and getting on with your life. If you do that, there's a very high likelihood that he'll surface in a couple of weeks again ;-)

Hang back, be silent, get on with your life and don't jump on his call or text when it does come. Don't act too eager and play it cool. Draw him to you with your curious mysterious silence ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks for reply Mirror.....yes I am in agreement with all of your answer above...what I found difficult and battled with was my nature to say thank you for our date ...I looked online to see what the general,consensus is about a woman sending a thank you text for date and it was about 70% yes it's a lovely considerate and grateful gesture and about 30% don't do it........so I followed who I am but now see in the scheme of the polarity of masculine / feminine energy dance I should have held back........ok then he answered that he had enjoyed evening too.....and my next text which I thought was rather casual and showing that I had an interest in him but not over the top was - would be good to do it again - full stop ......so really it seems in retrospect it is for the woman to totally lean back and not send a thank you text and not say would be good to do again???? Best o let him initiate all contact after first date.....no excuses!!!! Ok good to know and yes I have been absolutely silent since those two days of texting and have not said another word so I guess I am practising holding off....if I do hear from him lets say in a week or two or perhaps never!!! How long should I wait before texting back ? If he calls should I answer or let it go to message and call back or let him call me back? These fine details are what I am realising make HUGE differences ..much love n appreciation xx

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
LOL, doesn't surprise me, those 70% statistics you saw...and I bet the majority of the consensus came from...other women...not men, LOL. Women have a tendency to advise one another based on what THEY feel is acceptable or what THEY would want someone to do for THEM.

Problem is...they're women, not men. And what women want and need and appreciate...is NOT what men want, need and appreciate. Yet women project their wants, needs and desires onto men every single day. They say things to themselves like, "I like this or I want this or I appreciate this or I see it this way...so that must mean he does too."

WRONG. Women are not men and women and men are two entirely different creatures. Men interpret the behavior of women vastly different from how we interpret it ourselves.

And if you polled the majority of the women who feel its okay to send a thank you and hint at a second date before the man even asks for one, I bet you'll find that many of those dating situations fizzled out within a month or so. The only kind of men that respond relatively positively to that sort of thing are insecure men, players and or men that receive little to no attention from a woman. Even good men who respond positively find their attraction for the woman diminished, yet can't even put their finger on why they feel that way.

And the reason is the flip flop reversal of natural gender roles.

So when he contacts you, no don't answer that first call. Call him back about two hours later. Same with any texts that roll in. Wait at least an hour to respond. This gives you time to think clearly and him time to think about you.

Both very good things in the world of dating ;-)

Anonymous said...

I agree with you...women and consulting about men via women will more often than not give the wrong answer - so best thing is do the opposite of your girlfriends advice!! lol Funny though I have to say the 70% who said send a thank you text well I'd say many of them were actually guys which influenced my decision - but as you point out perhaps more insecure / player types which in many ways the guy I went on date with was!!! I find so interesting that a man can be so complimentary to the woman and actually get on well before and during the date and then virtually disapear! I am surprised that I haven't heard from this guy (besides one text) because in the WHOLE scheme of our relating (and remember I am a recovering anxios attacher!) he did 95% of the initiating..I find it tough to think because I sent a thank you and a return text saying would be good to do it again that he would right me off?? Its like wow!!
Anyway good I haven't responded at all since

...now I am also intrigued that you say only leave it a couple of hours to call back or text if he contacts me after a week or two as I notice you speak of mirroring what he does...... shouldn't I then wait the time he waited to get to me before answering?? Or is that just too crazy!!! (as it may be a month or a year!!!) lol......

love your advice and sensibility.....I feel relieved to have you to speak to....thanks
Ms M

Anonymous said...

PS Meant to add it was a guy who told me to write in the text that I answered to my date
"...would be good to do it again!!"
Arrgghhhhhhhh!!! He said just keep it light and show that in a non confronting way that you would be happy to see him again!!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Ms M,
"it was a guy who told me to write in the text that I answered to my date "...would be good to do it again!!"

LOL, well again, I'm not really surprised. Because the other thing I've noticed is that - many men (not all but many), their first impulse when dating is to want to make things easier on themselves. Additionally, as I had previously stated, this is a concept that affects many men (gender role reversal when dating) BUT they don't even know it. They can't put their finger on it. They think that what they want is something easy, where the woman takes the lead, makes things easy for them and she does the heavy lifting and the bulk of the work to keep the relationship going. That's what they THINK they want.

But in reality, the men find their attraction for the woman suddenly diminished and they don't even know why. They can't put their finger on it, but something's changed and it just doesn't light a "spark" for them anymore. And what they fail to realize about themselves is this:

1) Men like competition.

2) Men like "the chase."

3) Men like to be in the lead.

4) Men find that having to work at a woman actually excites them more than if a woman falls right into their lap.

So their natural inclination is to want to make things easier for themselves, but in doing so, they fail to realize. . .they've removed ALL OF THE FUN out of the situation for themselves. And then they stand their scratching their heads wondering why all of a sudden, they're no longer finding themselves as attracted to the woman as they originally were.

I read a great book, "Why Men Love Bitches" and in it, she described this concept. She put it something like this.

Imagine a man that likes to hunt (a competitive sport). A guy rings his doorbell, he opens the door and there's a live deer standing their on a leash. The man who brought the deer invites the man who opened the door to shoot it. The guy shoots it and goes back inside.

The entire experience was "meh" (shoulder shrug).

Now imagine this. The guy is out in the woods before sunrise. He hears a deer. Eventually he sees the deer coming into his sights. His hearts pounding, his blood is racing and he's focused on the kill. Hands shaking, he lines up his shot. He shoots - and misses. The deer takes off in a full sprint. He scrambles down from his tree stand and now he's on foot in pursuit of the deer. He lays low and takes another shot. This time, he grazes the deer. The deer again takes off full sprint with the man in pursuit. After a mile of tracking the deer, it's in his sights again. This time, adrenaline pumping, he takes his third shot. He shoots and the deer drops. He's won his prize through a hard earned battle.

And he goes home and he hangs that deer's head proudly on his wall. He tells the story of how he brought the deer down to all his friends and anyone who will listen. And every time he looks at that deer on his wall, he reminisces about the battle that brought the deer down.

Do you see the difference?

When a woman offers herself up on a platter, like the deer that was originally offered up on the leash, the excitement dwindles to nearly nothing for the man. However, when there's a challenge and some competition and a feeling of a hard won success - the man cherishes that experience.

You see, many men don't even know themselves well enough to know that the things they love about dating, they often times suggest that the woman remove from the experience for them. When a man invites a woman to call, text or take the lead - he doesn't even realize that he's inviting her to remove all of the fun, excitement and the thrill of the chase from the dating experience for him.

So regardless of what others tell you, man or woman, remember the story about the hunter and the deer.

Do you want to be the deer on the leash? Or the deer on the run ;-)

I say give them what they want sweetie, and RUN!

Anonymous said...

Hi again
Yes thanks I have heard that story about he easy hunt v the adrenaline laden one!!! Funny because in many ways you are right leading up to the date this guy did do all the hunting...called me (only once the week before) and did the initiating of texts and asked me to dinner - just lent back and charmed him with my grace and beauty!! He was though I have to say v complimentary, using babe and angel etc in texts before meeting.....he also the moment we met had his arm around me and we were holding hands and it really felt v natural - I would never normally do this straight up!! But he drank quite a bit and was actually seeking my validation in conversation - I could feel a subtle insecurity in him that he was trying to hide and I didn't just agree with him on things - infact he said many times how smart I was - emotional intelligence here!- in some ways I was not the usual type of woman he could bait and get away with - I am also v healthy body mind n spirit.....he said his last gf's ended up v needy and psycho with him ( they had abuse issues) and he plays the rescuer which I know as I have also done that in past...I think he realised with me he couldn't get away with his usual rescuing behaviour as I am a cut above all that...this means he would need to open to his deepest vulnerability and that's scary - and alcohol is a crutch to protect him from looking at his deep insecurities - you get the gist - shame because on some levels we had a lot of compatibility but do I want t be with a drinker n smoker when I am totally clean??? Still I am v pleased its been a week and I have remained silent which for me has been a great lesson in rising above from my past needy anxious attaching and realise not to take things personally - I think we as women when we get rejected (some of us) immediately believe there is something wrong with us and now I am considering actually maybe there is dysfunction with the man!!!! As I know I am a woman of worth integrity n value and should elevate myself (humbly) to sit in this place of self love - yes it has taken 50 years to get here but my eyes and ears are open now!!!! I can surrender and let go more easily of men who don't serve my highest good rather than fall in to a heap and blame myself - I wish this for all women to rise above and feel their worth and value.......and that being single has advantages too........thanks for your time - Ms M x

Om Prakash said...

nice sharing...............

Lioness of the Sun said...

"You see, many men don't even know themselves well enough to know that the things they love about dating, they often times suggest that the woman remove from the experience for them. When a man invites a woman to call, text or take the lead - he doesn't even realize that he's inviting her to remove all of the fun, excitement and the thrill of the chase from the dating experience for him."

This is so true. I see a lot of men these days say things like they love a woman who is upfront and direct, pays for dinner, doesn't make him chase her takes the lead, knows what she wants, asks him out, etc. And I just ignore advice like this from both men and women these days. It messed up my dating life for years. lol The only types of men who like women like this are players, feminine energy guys, lazy guys and I certainly don't want to feel like the "man" in the relationship!

If a guy asks me to call him, I say, "it would feel nice to hear from you." And I give them my number. I only take their number if I'm not interested since I don't plan to call them and it's easier than some awkwardness.

However I also noticed that a lot of men don't chase if you give them nothing to chase. i.e. give no response at all...but as long as you let them know subtly that you do like hearing from them (not in an overly enthused grateful way but simply something sensual like "it feels good to hear from you") they will continue chasing

~Lioness of the Sun

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lioness of the Sun,
As a woman, always encourage the treatment that you like and appreciate. And the way to encourage it, is to compliment them on it.

This builds the man's confidence with the woman and it also lets him know that his actions are successful. It serves as an unspoken language in a sense. Positive behavior and positive reinforcement leads to more positive behavior and more positive reinforcement.

And it creates a really nice positive vibe of energy that starts to ebb and flow between the two.

Lioness of the Sun said...

I totally agree, MOA. a year ago, I realized that in the past I didn't really show enough positive reinforcement when men did something I liked, and I would complain when they did something "wrong". I think the lack of showing appreciation is the entitlement thing that some men complain about. Now that I am always showing positive reinforcement for their good gestures, I feel like I attract them more (like bees to honey. lol ) I was also reading your article on Persuasion and Influence. I've never come across something so informative on the subject!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lioness of the Sun,
Evoking positive feelings in another individual is what draws them towards you - because naturally, no one enjoys spending time around anyone that makes them feel like crap all the time.

So if you elicit positive feelings in others and their overall experience around you (and with you) becomes something very positive and enjoyable - then it's human nature to simply want more of that ;-)

In the same way that negative reinforcement can push someone away from you "I would complain when they did something wrong" - positive reinforcement can draw people towards you "I am always showing positive reinforcement for their good gestures, I feel like I attract them more (like bees to honey)."

As a human being, if you stay and remain in the "positive" - you're going to draw more of that to yourself.

As a human being, if you stay and remain in the "negative" - you're going to draw more of that to yourself (in the form of people moving away from you and avoiding your company because it's not an enjoyable experience for them).

Anonymous said...

I so love this information and think its vital for us women to have it, so thank you for sharing! I have a couple of questions though. As an older single female, 51, I don't have kids and don't need a man to provide for a family. I still want to apply these rules though. I get that I should never ever initiate a text or a phone call in the first stages of dating. How long does this apply for? A couple of months? And then is it ok? And what does a man do when he finally catches the female? When he has a commitment....does his hunting instincts die and doesn't he sort of lose interest in some way? How do we keep that urge in him alive? And also, I don't have a family for him to provide for, so how do I rationalize (to myself)letting him pay for everything all the time. Does this continue into commitment, letting the man pay for absolutely everything?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
These are basics for the dating phase (i.e. courtship phase). Once things progress and commitments have been made an the man has requested exclusivity from the woman - then things can change a bit.

"I don't have kids and don't need a man to provide for a family."

Doesn't matter. You still want a man to provide for you as well and that isn't necessarily financially. He should be able to provide support, encouragement and inspiration and you should provide that in return as well.

"I get that I should never ever initiate a text or a phone call in the first stages of dating. How long does this apply for? A couple of months? And then is it ok?"

Generally, things can change once the MAN has requested exclusivity and a commitment. If that hasn't happened, then you let him pursue you.

There are no time limits with regards to that, but generally, if a man hasn't asked for exclusivity by about the 6th month of dating, chances are he's never going to and you should move on then so that you don't waste years of your life waiting on a man to decide if your the one or not.

And once exclusivity is set, I'd still let him be the man and make most of the initiation. Because lots of times what happens is women get the commitment, then they turn the tables and they come "full on" with the man - which will only cause him to take a step back from the woman.

"And what does a man do when he finally catches the female? When he has a commitment....does his hunting instincts die and doesn't he sort of lose interest in some way?"

This is why, even after exclusivity has been requested, you let him initiate most of the time. You let him work at it and lead the relationship (exhibit masculine energy). If the woman attempts to then take control of the relationship after commitments have been set, this is when you hear men say, "She was always so sweet but then we became boyfriend and girlfriend and everything changed."

And that's because the woman attempted to overpower the man and "lead" (begins exhibiting masculine energy) the relationship.

"And also, I don't have a family for him to provide for, so how do I rationalize (to myself)letting him pay for everything all the time. Does this continue into commitment, letting the man pay for absolutely everything?"

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Again, moderation and fairness are key here. It's not about the family aspect, it's about him providing for you - fulfilling your needs as a woman. Needs that entail romance, respect, support, encouragement, inspiration and the like. Financial is just on aspect of the "provider" concept.

True gentlemen feel emasculated by letting a woman provide financially for them:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/02/pay-for-a-date.html

So you have to be mindful of not overriding his manhood by taking the lead. You have to let him be the man because this is what makes him feel good about himself and makes him feel like a man and provides him with confidence. When women take the lead, they undermine the man's masculinity and many men suddenly find themselves no longer attracted to the woman and don't even know why - and it's because the woman is now exhibiting masculine energy in the form of leading and providing while the man is then forced to play a more passive role (feminine energy) and this makes men feel uncomfortable, even if they don't realize that that is what's causing their discomfort.

The point is to never reverse Mother Nature's natural gender roles - because it topple's the energy exchange in a relationship.

So once things have progressed to the state of exclusivity, I'd say on average, keep it maybe 60-40 or so. Sixty percent of the time, he's the man and the leader and the provider. Then, approximately 40 percent of the time, you can take a step forward and switch things up a bit. Find whatever ratio works for you as a couple - but NEVER take the larger percentage or you will overpower him in masculine energy.

That way, even after exclusivity, he's allowed to be the man, he's exhibiting the bulk of masculine energy, and most of the time, he's still got to work at this, which keeps him interested and engaged in the relationship.

Anonymous said...

Sounds good to me! Thanks for such sage advice.

Anonymous said...

@Wonderful advice! Something my masculine female colleagues should adopt. The working environment would definitely change for the better.

Anonymous said...

I love your articles - I always read them when embarking on a possible new relationship, they make me feel empowered! I was wondering what your views are on whether you should kiss on a first date? I am going on a first date with a new guy this weekend. I've met a few guys from online dating who I have never kissed on a first date, but I think maybe because we didn't have a lot of communication beforehand. With this guy he has openly been flirting with me (in amongst normal non-flirty emails) and I can sense that a kiss might be on the cards for our date. We don't live in the same town, and are actually both meeting in London (not our home towns) and I won't be back 'home' until mid September - I am going away a lot over this summer, so this might be our only date for a while. I'm wondering whether a kiss might be a good thing, as if I do like this guy then it'll help me stay in his mind for all this time....what do you think?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous July 12, 7:13AM,
That depends on what type of kiss you're referring to. A brief, conservative kiss is acceptable. However, I would not advise a deep, passionate kiss as it may lead elsewhere (to the bedroom) and start this thing off on the wrong foot.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your advice. I will try and restrain myself to a brief kiss...I did think that a proper kiss might be a bad idea, but as there is no chance of us having access to any bedrooms for at least a couple of months anyway, I thought it might be ok! Probably a brief kiss would be safest all round anyway, just enough to let him I know I like him (if I do like him when I meet him, but not too much. Thanks for your advice.

Tiff720 said...

Hi M.O.A.... I really love your articles & you've helped me along the way. Here is my situation...
Thursday night after class, a few of my classmates/group members (3 women/1 guy) went to a restaurant… Meanwhile, we're all going to our cars, the guy (K) interjects during our conversation & asked me "so what are WE doing for your birthday (Saturday)". Totally surprised as I was not expecting anything like it. Here's a little background on this (k). Had a class with him about 2 semesters ago. Another classmate texted me to tell me that the guy may be "GAY" (i do apologize if this offends). I didn't think he was, just a little different! After the class was over, we both realized we needed to take the exam. So we exchanged #'s. We met a few times to study for the exam. I thought our studying time was kindof not effective since he began to talk about relationship stuff that I had no interest.... We still kept in contact on occasion of classes/professors & the status of the exam. We ended up being in the same class (taking now), at first he was not sitting next to me than a few classes later, he sits right next to me. Now back to him asking me out.. I let him know that bowling was good & I'll call him to let him know the time.... He wanted me to text him to let him know that I made it home. So I did!
Friday, called (k) while headed to the doctors to let him know a good time to meet. While talking to him, he realized that I was in the same area as he & asked me out to brunch. He said to pick a place "anywhere I would like to go". After choosing the restaurant, it didn't make since to take both cars, so he let me use his parking pass & we took his car. He's doing all of the talking (nice) while at the restaurant. I've never been on a brunch/ date & the man is doing all of the talking. W(h)e talked for a long time. To the point I lost track of time. After departing from him around 8pm. Guy (D) calls. Guy (D) & I have been corresponding (mainly text) on occasion, but have known since last year May. We were in the same class & found out we were pursing the same degree/major. We talked; he asked what I was doing. So I told him he can come pick me up. He knows where I live because I have invited him over to exchange some books for class & notes. He was a few classes ahead of me, but has books he pays it forward. We went to bar, got there around 11:50ish or so. We left the bar 1am-ish back to my place. He walked me to my door, I gave him a hug & thanked him for the gift he got me. He kissed me! Then that led to us kissing for almost 2.5 hours. WOW!! I have never done that before. I was never expecting that from him. He left a little after 4 am. Met (K) for bowling, afterwards he took me to restaurant. All the while in the restaurant, I realized this man order the same foods I ate like he did at the other restaurant. I thought to myself for it to be very interesting because that has never happened. Again he talked throughout the whole time. Sunday, met up with (D) since he had called to let me know he had another gift for me. We kissed again for about 30 mins. I really like kissing him. I like D, but don't want to rush anything; especially from previous relationships/experiences.
What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance for your advice.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tiff720,
I'm not real sure what your specific question is, but if I understand it correctly, you're dating two men. Which, at this point is acceptable as both are in the very early stages and nothing sexual is taking place, so both are a "get to know you" situation.

However, if things progress with D, then K has to be released. Additionally, even if things don't progress with D, after a month or so, I think K needs to be set free.

And the reason for that is that it's okay to casually date (no sex) a few men at a time in the early stages, but once things start to progress with one of them (2, 3rd, 4th and 5th dates) and YOU find that you like one and want more, then it's time to set the others free.

It's respectful and it's the right thing to do.

On the flip side, if you're dating a few men at once and you don't find yourself particularly attracted to any one of them and you don't find that anything is progressing with any of them, then it's okay to continue to casually see them from time to time while exploring other options as well. But like I said, if you find yourself being attracted to one of them and want more, or you find one of them begins asking more from you (and you're not interested in a romantic involvement), it's best to do the right thing and release them with honesty.

Tiff720 said...

This is Tiff720.... Thank you for the quick response. Wasn't sure of the question to ask, so I gave you an overview of the situation...

I haven't dated in about a month so now all of a sudden these 2 guys appear. So yes, I am dating them both. I have been out with the K guy only once. As for D, I have been out with him from time to time. Nothing sexual at all; but although this past w/k there was some kind of sexual tension between D & I. However, I refrained from it going any further. I mentioned during our kissing session that I don't participate in casual sex. He said the same thing.

However, since I do not talk to D on a consistent basis; I let him text me. How do I get to know him or should I just let it all take its course? How would I recognize/know if things are progressing with D? If I can remember we met for brunch for the 1st time in the beginning a May. Later that day he asked me out to the movies. It was a nice & friendly date, hanging out or not sure what to call it. The next time I saw him was to exchange books around June. It was kindof late as I was just getting off from work & exhausted. He text me after leaving and asked if I wanted a massage. I replied that is sounds nice, but I'll have to let you next time. Was that the right thing to say?
He asked of some pictures of me when I went on a trip. So I sent him a few. Should I have done that?











The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tiff720,
"How do I get to know him"

You wait for HIM to make attempts to get to know YOU dear.

"How would I recognize/know if things are progressing with D?"

When he starts initiating regular communication with you, when he starts asking you out on dates and when he starts making time for you.

"He text me after leaving and asked if I wanted a massage. I replied that is sounds nice, but I'll have to let you next time. Was that the right thing to say?"

Well, it was sexually suggestive somewhat. So when you say, "next time" - to many men, that may translate into, "next time I'm getting laid." So careful being open to that type of thing. Instead, keep em' guessing (and working at it) with something like, "That sounds nice, we'll just have to see where this goes."

That's not a yes, and it's not a no. It's a "maybe - if you act right." ;-)

"He asked of some pictures of me when I went on a trip. So I sent him a few. Should I have done that?"

If they were respectful pictures, sure that's fine. If they were nude or sexually suggestive, then no, that's not the type of behavior that leads to a healthy, committed relationship. Instead, that will lead to a "hookup."

Tiff720 said...

Thanks for the additional advice.....

What are some signs that he is getting to know me?

When I received that text, I contemplated on how to respond for a long while. After sending my response, what I really wanted to same popped in my mind, ugh! So I couldn't take that back. I just hope he doesn't remember. So thanks for the catchy suggestion of the things to say.

As far as the pictures; nothing risky or sexually suggestive; however, what about swimsuit pictures?

Anonymous said...

I have been on your site in a while but I just wanted to thank you again for the info you share. Very helpful!!!!!! MT

Pisces Girl said...

Hi Mirror- is it ever ok to hang out with a guy at his place in the beginning stages?this football player i met has been very insistent on me going over to his place to "chill" and he's said i can trust him and he just wants to talk but im very skeptical because first time i met him he wasnt very talkative he kept on asking for my number till i finally gave in and gave it to him (btw should you give out your # or get the guys??)i'll admit since my last relationship ended recently ive been feeling quite sad and vulnerable that offer tempts me and he's got a six pack but i got a mirror on my shoulder and know that if he isnt gonna put in the effort to take me on a date that he doesnt deserve one. He keeps texting asking me to go over and chill and i text him saying that i chill enough at home and i like to go out and do things -he then said that i never told him that..but why would i have to tell him that thats the proper way to court a girl! i feel like he just wants to get me in his environment where he can have the opportunities to make advances on me i told him this as well and i dont want to put myself in that position being in the vulnerable state that im in. Anyways he basically told me im too damn difficult :( and i then said he lacks energy and creativity to put in any effort to have a real date..he said we just started messaging each other again recently ( i deleted his # before)so there was no time to be creative..i told him i was going to delete his number again and he just told me to go ahead and do that if thats what i wanna do. Any hope here?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Pisces Girl,
He's a waste of time dear - and you've already filtered him out as a lazy man seeking free and easy sex (a hookup situation).

"should you give out your # or get the guys?"

ALWAYS give YOURS and let the man pursue you. If you start off as the one leading the relationship, then it'll be you doing all of the work to keep it going from that day forward. If a man isn't going to prove himself to you from day one, he never will.

"why would i have to tell him that thats the proper way to court a girl"

You'd never have to tell a gentleman that dear - trouble is, you're not dealing with a gentleman here. You're dealing with a lazy man that's not willing to make any investments in you - yet is expecting you to invest in him sexually for his less than stellar efforts.

"i feel like he just wants to get me in his environment where he can have the opportunities to make advances on me"

Players are very good at sniffing out weakness and vulnerability in women dear - they actually target women like that. In the movie, The Breakup, Vince Vaughn walks into a bar with his buddies and his friend says to him, "Let's separate the weak ones from the pack."

I'm quite sure this man senses your vulnerability and he knows that if he corners you, he's got a good chance that you'll buckle.

"he basically told me im too damn difficult"

Translation: You're not an "easy" girl - and that's a GOOD thing dear so don't let his attempt at emotional manipulation (using guilt) make you believe otherwise.

He wants you to feel bad about yourself, as if you're a difficult woman and unlike the rest, an oddball - so that he can use that to his advantage here. Don't fall for it and don't be sad about it. . .be PROUD of that dear.

"there was no time to be creative"

It takes all of 15 minutes to thoughtfully plan a date. I think football may have gone to his head here and he's not the brightest start in the sky, LOL ;-)

"Any hope here?"

Here's your answer to that:

"i told him i was going to delete his number again and he just told me to go ahead and do that if thats what i wanna do"

He could care less. And that's fine. Let him go out and victimize someone else - you're too smart to fall for that and if he wants you - this football player's going to have to "up his game" ;-)

Pisces Girl said...

hahah love it! thanks Mirror once again you are soo right-i wont even respond to his last text-his number will have to be deleted and he can go play somebody else!! i did wanna respond and tell him that thats no way to treat somebody but really whats the point! i wont even bother ill let my silence speak loud and clear..when i deleted his number the first time around months ago it was because i wasnt impressed with the less than stellar efforts he was making to get to know me like call instead of text all the time and ask me basic questions to get to know me he conveniently used the excuse that he was a quiet guy and he still says that. Earlier today he sent me a picture via text it was 6 pictures of him in 1 frame all shirtless in his yellow shorts flexing and showing off his toned physique in different poses saying "look what your missing out on lol"..i told him that he may look good but what differentiates him from other guys who look just as good. You're right i think football has gotten to his head and he's mentioned how good they pay him so i figured he should at least be able to afford to wine and dine me but NOPE all i was getting was a "come chill" text!! but its clear to me now and with what you just reaffirmed that he is indeed just seeking free and easy sex so yes being told that im too difficult is in fact a compliment! i dont know why i seem to attract these arrogant cocky dudes - athletes seem to be the worst. People tell me im really pretty and nice but im trying to be not so nice and less naive -if this is all a big game for them id rather just sit out on the sidelines because i cant keep losing. when he said i could trust him i told him trust was EARNED -anyways they've had an unlucky streak 5 games in a row i seen that front and center of our local paper and he was thinking he could get lucky with me after i told him im not that girl!what a JERK!!!

Pisces Girl said...

btw one good thing i did take from previous posts was when he asked me to send him a picture last night i just flat out said no..and he actually seemed really surprised that i said no without any further explanation and he said "....?? so no picture??" i said yep last time i checked thats what no meant!lol he then said i dont get one of him either but today he ends up sending me one without me even asking him too.doesnt make sense.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Pisces Girl,
This guy's incredibly arrogant dear and very superficial. And because men are visually triggered, he's erroneously assuming women are the same. Women are triggered emotionally and intellectually - and he's COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS to that, LOL. He erroneously thinks thinks that the same things he enjoys (visual cues, photos), you do to - it's like he thinks you think like him, like a dude, LOL. He doesn't realize women need more than that.

And that tells me that he's very used to doing very little for attention from women and he spends his time around a lot of insecure women with low self-esteem (the one's who fall for that stuff to receive male attention.)

If he wants to see you dear - the real thing is much better than a picture - and if he was a gentleman and more well versed in women, he'd quickly realize that a date would be the appropriate thing here.

But you see, he's not a gentleman seeking a relationship. He's a player seeking a hookup. Big difference. And once you catch onto the differences between how gentleman proceed with women versus how manipulative players do - they're really easy to spot.

Gentlemen use social skills with women - players resort to manipulation (because they lack social skills).

Pisces Girl said...

"Gentlemen use social skills with women - players resort to manipulation (because they lack social skills)."

absolutely right mirror and i find that players are actually quite insecure because they seek women who will give them praise and validation and tell them how good looking and talented they are ..funny thing is since i didnt even respond to his last message he never bothered texting me back to try to make things right and get a proper date with me sighh but its ok because its his loss i dont think he's as wonderful as he thinks he is and i cant stand a man who thinks he looks better than me anyways. im not perfect but i certainly dont want someone who spends more time getting ready in the morning than me!lol yep he's a write off -and theres something to be said about how these playa boys are raised. It makes me wonder though because they all have mothers and a lot of them have sisters and other close females in their lives that they love and care about it and i just think to myself what would they think if the men in their lives were playing those types of games with them and trying to take advantage of them through lies and manipulation im sure they would wanna kick their ass or tell them to F off! but they'll still treat women in that matter and think nothing of it..but i guess in their minds if a woman allows it then why the hell not.

female body language said...

Women love the courtship when dating because it helps them determine who the guy really is. Action speaks louder than words and women are now wise enough to know the real purpose.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror!
I've been talking to this 28 year old Cancer guy for the past couple of weeks.

He asked me out, and I already gave him the go ahead to invite me to food or drinks.

When he asked me to text him anytime, I of course completely ignored it and gave him my number instead.

He texted me the next day, which was good.

I thought it was building up towards a date, because he asked me what foods I like, and also what my favorite place was.

But then he asked me, "Do you think that someday you can show me how (insert my favorite kind of food) is done?"

Huh?

It reminded me of this other guy I went on a few dates with - a Scorpio - who was really fun and upbeat, but he'd say things like, "I'd love it if you could take me to jazz sometime!"

I can't help but feel turned off.

Are these men worth giving a chance? Just feels like I'd have to constantly train them to act like a proper man who is confident and takes the initiative. Or do you think they are hidden gems / good men I'm overlooking?

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
As much as I'd like to say that everyone is different and who knows, in time, men like this (passive, feminine) may eventually "man up" (take the lead, masculine) - based on my experience, that's never been the case. Besides, who has a year or two to invest into a man like this, to encourage and support him in becoming a real man, ya' know?

These guys think they're being slick. But the reality is - they're being feminine. They're kicking back, taking a passive stance and they're expecting for the WOMAN to court THEM. They think it's slick, but the reality is that it's a huge turnoff to a woman that's seeking a masculine man with a leader-type kind of energy.

What the guy is suggesting to you in that comment about your favorite dish:

"Do you think that someday you can show me how (insert my favorite kind of food) is done?"

Translation:

"Do you think that someday you will invite me over to your place and cook for me and maybe sex me up afterwards?"

That's what a comment like that amounts to from a man you've just met that's never even taken you out on one date. He's testing the waters, seeing if you're down for an in-home, hookup, "buddy" type of date.

You can give him a bit more time if you like, but I'd set a limit at about a month to six weeks, no more. And if you spend the next two weeks communicating with him and he doesn't attempt to move things forward with a real date invitation - I'd just give up right there.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for helping me translate manspeak, Mirror!

I was starting to question my intuition, since it's been on a red flag alert for almost every single guy I've been talking to. But I know it's better to weed them out early; I believe the right men will get through the filtering process.

This past week, I've had several men reappear whom I messaged on the dating site - LAST YEAR.

The bizarre part is 1) I was the one who stopped replying them 2) they're all Taurus and 3) they messaged me again like they don't remember me at all!

One in particular - with a Mars in Taurus - texted me for 3 months last year. I was gaga over Libra guy at the time, and made up some story about not being over my ex to try to slow down the process with Taurus. The Taurus guy was understanding and even offered to go out for drinks, but I declined.

Later on, it was my friend's birthday and I invited him to the club, but he couldn't make it. I felt rejected, and annoyed - because he waited until the day after the event to tell me he couldn't go.

After updating my iPod software, I was unable to send iMessages. It kept saying error, not delivered. I got so pissed about it that I stopped using iMessage altogether - which meant that I stopped texting Taurus.

He resurfaced yesterday - and wrote a friendly personalized message...and sent a link to his picture. Said he wanted to get to know me better. He did not sound like he remembered me at all!

We talked on a different dating site last year, but still... how can he NOT recognize me by my pictures? I immediately recognized him when I saw his.

I feel like this is a lose-lose situation. If he DOES remember me and is acting like he doesn't - then he's playing a game. If he genuinely doesn't remember me - then I don't feel very special as I didn't make an impression on him during the 3 months we texted.

Either way - how would you handle a man who reappears and doesn't remember you?

I was the one who stopped contact, so I don't know if I should be as hard on them as a man who disappeared without a warning.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
I'd probably give him a nudge about it and mention it in some fashion like, "Hey, do you happen to remember. . ." and then gauge his response.

These things happen online unfortunately. So many women, so little time, only so much memory I suppose, LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

@Mirror,

Wow, embarrassing...I think I overreacted, haha.

I nudged Taurus, and wrote, "You look familiar...have we spoken before?"

And he wrote, "Yes, we did a long time ago! I wasn't sure if you remembered me."

So he was likely writing on the assumption that I didn't remember him, but he remembers me. *does a girly dance*.

I like that he doesn't make me anxious. He's not really deep enough and he doesn't make me feel emotional like Libra guy does, but I'm much more relaxed when chatting with him.

I was chatting with an interesting musician who is intense and deep, but I felt very anxious talking to him, the same kind of anxiety I felt when I was emotional over Libra guy. Both want to be adored and worshipped.

He also asked me to text him so we could talk "more fluidly." Not very fluid if I have to do the initiating, LOL. I deleted the message right away. My emotional health is important than any man.

Going to see how things go with the Taurus this time around.

I think I'm learning my lessons. ;-) Thanks again Mirror.

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Hello, I just came accross this site and I really like it!! Maybe you can help me. I am a 46 year old single female. My friend set me up with this guy, who is 35 and LDS or Mormon which I am not. Very different views on a lot of different subjects. We had been talking everyday for a month before he asked me out. We had a great time and chemistry. Two weeks later he asked me again but it felt like I iniciated the conversation to go out again. On the second date, he told me he wants to take things very slowly and I like that but he also mentioned that he had sex only once 11 years ago!!! right? and it was not a good experience. He says he likes me but how are we going to get to know each other if we only see each other once every two weeks? This week I don't have my daughter and he knows it. He called me yesterday (Wednesday) to let me know that he had car troubles and was going to work on his car all weekend. I have an issue with the age difference, I have an issue because he is LDS and for obvious reasons he really follows their believes but does not go to church and he drinks. He is a Taurus but for being one he seems very insecure. My gut feeling tells me to run but my silly heart tells me to give him a chance. What do I do? We have fun together, he makes me laugh and is very polite but..... Can I get some advice? Thanks.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous September 19, 3:45PM,
I dunno about this one dear. I think this may be too far out of your element. And not because of the age difference, but because of the difference in beliefs.

As I'm sure you're aware, the LDS/Mormon church is strict and some of them practice polygamy as well. I'm not judging for that, I'm simply saying that the difference in beliefs may be too vast to conquer is all.

And if you're gut is telling you to high-tail it outta' there, then I can't disagree with it dear as your gut always knows best, truthfully.

Anonymous said...

MOA,I have been researching many sites, about learning and understanding more on dating since I have met a wonderful man 2 months ago. I will try to keep this short! I came across this site, and I very much love these insightful articles with comments and stories that are similar to mine. Lets try a cliff note strategy here:- Ive been on several dates for almost 2.5 years, using a common dating site
- Met a man on the night I had a successful interview for a promotion, he unhid his profile, didn't think I would respond to him, shy, cute, my type, I knew what I saw and wanted, and the rarest thing happen: I asked for his number!
- days later, first date, sparks flew, chemistry, etc. For the next few days, hot and heavy pursuit by him.
- he is a virgo, I am a leo/virgo cusp
- he has been burnt before, badly, ex from 2009 cheated on him, got preggers by her ex...etc. he felt I thought he would be a loser for not being with anyone in a long time. so false. I haven't either.
- he is 28, I am 33
- we are both successful and pursuing our careers, passions, etc. He is "catching up" by taking classes, working 2 jobs, very busy, workaholic.
- after 2 weeks, the sparks started to die (on his end). Textbook signs here. I was getting emotional before he and I met, because I was getting bored with my job, and depressed. Which started to make a hole in myself....I became "needy".
-I started doing the female thing, wondering, seeking validation in secret ways...lol. Trying carefully, not to scare him or push him. Im cautious, but a part of me knows to back off thank goodness! Still, nature causes me to over-obsess.
- After one month, and less contact from him, no more texting initiated by him, I got the job offer/promotion.
- asked him to come over to talk about the promotion. He thought I was calling him over to break up with him because he has been so busy with work and school and knew he wasn't giving me much attention. I said no, I thought this was going to be a ticket for him to walk away from me. The promotion will require me to move several states away :(
- we talked, I kept it VERY short and brief, didn't want to have THAT talk. Just wanted to talk about boundaries, and if we can continue to move this forward as a LDR and slowly. He wanted that. And he mentioned that this has opnly been one month, and we need to see how we will feel when those honeymoon feelings wane.
-its been almost a month since then, lots of good and bad things in my life (stressful for the move) have popped up, I see him about once a week. I still don't get intitated texts from him (not going to explain every day and scenario, but that's the jist of it).
-latest example, he came over several days ago (yay!) and we spent the evening going out to grab dinner and bring it back with a movie, and snuggled, and held each other, light kisses all night.
- btw, we haven't had that passionate kiss together since our third date! Its like, we are attracted to each other, but he is and says he is shy, every now and then he says I am cute, and look gorgeous. So I have these small bits and pieces of validation....im still not use to such reduced affection from a man. I feel like I am dealing with a feminine energy, and I am masculine energy, as I have read above.
- when he left for the night (and again, its about 1 night a week, not usually a weekend, his days off are spent to do his own things, chores, etc, I give him lots of personal space, I respect his privacy, wont even go there with FB yet with him!), tons of smooches and hugging, and he hugged me from behind when I bent over to turn the tv on.....he texted me when he got home.

Anonymous said...

Its been several days, I sent him a picture with me and my cute dog he loves, showing him hello, and hope he;s having a great week. He responded within the hour or so, letting me know its been ok, and he hoped mine was going great as well. I knew he was working.
Interesting points- in the beginning, he was always texting while he was at one of his jobs, and the other job he leaves his phone in his truck while he is working and responds hours later. Im fine with this. But am I reading into this whole texting thing and lackthereof anymore?I am feeling like because of his nature, his character, and his past, that he is being very cautious for one. And then another, he may have trust issues. And now he knws I will have to move thousands of miles away for this new role. Since yesterday, I didn't respond to his last text, hoping I was having a great day. I wasn't sure if he was going to have time to come over last night, as he mentioned the other night that we will have to see if he has time, because he is leaving out of town for training this weekend (short trip). I am leaving this weekend, prob when he gets back from his trip, to go apartment hunting in my new area. When I get back, I just wonder if he will ever reach out? I only have weeks left to be here near him. I have had LDRs before, once. And we handled it well. I am more the type that if I know I have your heart, emotion, trust, etc, physical is only a plane ticket away. Im an honorable and loyal woman.I have since a month now, noticed I have initiated most texts by sending him nice notes, pictures (cute) to let him know I hope he's having a good day. But WHEN he comes over, MOA, its usually because it was "preplanned" and I am texting him to find out if he was still planning on coming over. I know, it sounds ridiculous! But that's what I feel I have to do, anymore, because I just never hear from him, he's so busy. I just feel like, most of the time, he wont reach out to me, because of his insecurities, or maybe he feels that since I haven't made a sexual move since our 3rd date (was hottest and heaviest, but we passed that test!), that he's just backed off and its forcing me to take the lead.I read your above articles and post about men taking the lead, men these days, etc. And I agree with you! I have not been attracted to someone in years, and I am glad he came alone and appeared in my life, I just wish he did it sooner. But now that he has appeared, I feel like I am dealing with a modern day man, who has both pursued (and wants to casually date, opens my doors, pays for everything,etc) me, and now seems to be forcing me to take the lead to keep this going. I don't know what to do. Other than keep biting my lip and not sending him a contact text when I get back next week to see and TEST if he will start to wonder.....and come after me? Or will his usual nature and insecurities take over....and walk away? I just can't read him well. I am totally convinced we have our roles reversed 50% of the time. This is frustrating! Please hold my hand!!!!!!!!!!!! lol! I hope you have time to respond.....love your brain and encouraging words. Give me strength to trust in him and myself ! -LeoLady

Anonymous said...

PS. Im just getting tired of intiating. AMEN. I know I am not the only woman here that has to feel this way! Its not fair to be in a wonderful attraction with a man, and feel like hes losing interest, and then this feeling of wondering if he will come back to me if I just stop talking to him.....ugh! Leolady

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 25, 10:16 AM,
"But am I reading into this whole texting thing and lack thereof?"

No dear. You should be paying attention to his ACTIONS and ignoring his WORDS. Because his actions are signaling to you that he's only half-interested :-(

"I am feeling like because of his nature, his character, and his past, that he is being very cautious for one. And then another, he may have trust issues."

Don't make excuses for him dear. It is what it is. And when men want something, regardless of what it is, they go for it. It's in their nature. So when they don't go for it, it signals that it's not a high priority for them :-(

"I have initiated most texts"

Not only that dear - you have initiated this entire relationship :-(

"that's what I feel I have to do, anymore, because I just never hear from him, he's so busy."

Why do you feel the need to nudge this along dear? Why do you feel like YOU have to keep this thing afloat? If you feel that way, then that means that if you don't keep this going, he'll let it drop. And if he'll let it drop, that should tell you that he's not genuinely interested. And if he's not genuinely interested, then why do you want to be with him? Why do you want to be with a man that is only half interested in you?

"I don't know what to do."

Why are you waiting for a man to signal to you or tell you what you should do dear? You don't put your life on hold and then sit and wait for a man to decide if he wants to be with you or see you or not. Instead, YOU make a decision for YOURSELF and you decide that this man cannot give you what you need or make you happy - and you let him go. You don't beat your head against the wall trying to convince someone to love you. You accept that it isn't working and you take control of your happiness and you remove yourself from this situation and you free yourself to find someone that wants what you want and that is willing to make you happy and give you what you need.

I hate to say this dear, but I have to so that you don't suffer a repeat here someday. This may hurt, but I mean you only good intention by doing so, not bad - so bare with me here while we explore this :-)

Let's take a look at the very beginnings here:

"I asked for his number!"

Unfortunately, when a woman pursues a man, which is what happened here (you have to ignore the fact that he started to pursue AFTER you did, because any time a woman does this, men who want only sex will also begin to pursue it) - it tends to have a reverse effect, leading to ultimate failure rather than success.

Part of that is because men don't actually like when a woman takes the lead. It denies them the opportunity to do so to get things off the ground. Additionally, studies have shown that when it's the MAN that initiates and is initially attracted to the woman - higher success rates leading to long term relationships are shown. When a woman initiates and is initially attracted to the man early on, the opposite is shown - this generally leads to a few sexual encounters and then the man disappears.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Why? Because he wasn't initially that interested in the first place :-( But because the woman made it easy on him and "picked" him and then gave chase (initiated and went after him), he figures, "Hey, I'll try this and see what happens." So he does. But in the end, there just wasn't enough of an initial interest in the very beginning, and he never develops or experiences feelings for the woman as he thought maybe he would - so he slowly begins to pull back and fade away, because he doesn't want a relationship :-( Like this, "after 2 weeks, the sparks started to die." And there's an old saying associated with this concept dear:

"sparks flew, chemistry, etc. For the next few days, hot and heavy pursuit by him."

"after 2 weeks, the sparks started to die (on his end)"

And that saying is, "Things that start off hot and heavy tend to burn out just as fast." So when things hit the ground running, rather than be excited about that and see it as a good sign - it should signal a red flag dear. It's not a good thing and it's a warning sign that reads, "Short fling, passionate affair ahead."

"I started doing the female thing, wondering, seeking validation in secret ways"

That's because your gut was signaling that something was wrong here - he was NOT validating you as you would expect in a situation like this. And that's another red flag dear. When you don't receive that validation from a man willingly, you don't go seeking it out. Instead, you accept that he's not feeling that way about the situation and you remove yourself from it before you let it damage your self worth and self esteem and confidence.

"im still not use to such reduced affection from a man"

Then don't settle for that dear. Don't go to him and try to force him to give you more affection. Just accept that this wasn't meant to be and tell him that while you've enjoyed yourself and you're glad you met him, you just don't think this is working because you're not getting your needs fulfilled. And you take control of your happiness and this situation proactively (instead of passively waiting on him to decide), and you end it. You free yourself up so that you can meet a man where you're moving to that WANTS to make you happy and finds enjoyment in fulfilling your needs and appreciates that you do the same for him.

This isn't working dear. You're not happy and he's not willing to make you happy. Accept that. Accept that nothing you do or say can make this man love you or want to be with you. Accept that he has to want this too. And do NOT listen to his WORDS because he can lie to you. You can't rely on words. You can only rely on ACTIONS. And if his actions are signaling that you're not that important to him, then you ignore his words and you accept that and you take control and end it and find happiness for yourself :-)

Many women, as you can see from comments on this site dear, experience what you have and have done many of the things you've done and experienced failures as a result. Such is life, it's the nature of the beast. We all experience rejection and we all make mistakes. That's what makes us human. If we were perfect, we'd be Gods - and clearly, we're not, LOL. The definition of insanity dear is, "doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results." Don't stick around long enough for him to drive you insane, LOL ;-)

Some people come into our life for a reason dear and sometimes that reason is to teach us lessons or help us grow in some way. So take a positive outlook on this and realize that a valuable lesson has been learned here - and be thankful for that dear. Because it will keep you from repeating it in the future and you'll spare yourself lots of pain and confusion as a result. It's actually a good thing, not a bad one ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks MOA:)
Im sitting at the airport now waiting to fly out to my new state where ill be starting a new life in a month. He texted me yesterday to have a good weekend. I will treat that as the last contact and walk away, onward and upward. Im a proffessional, strong, confident woman....always have been for years. He caused me to lose that for a minute, and im getting it back now. If he wants more of me, we will see what his actions prove. When we are together, his actions are clear. Its when we arent together that isnt strong or convincing. I will mark this as a learning opportunity and keep it casual like he wanted, and move on. If hes a man and wants to turn this around, if I ever hear from him again, then I will be the one to decide what he gets from me from now on.

I will keep you posted, loves. Thx again MOA. your words give me strength. I have been out with my friends for some time for weeks, and last night while I was out, met a new friend, and after talking for a few minutes, he looked at me and said , " your so kind and generous and sweet...so considerate...is there a special man in your life? Cuz hes a lucky man!!" Of course this young man was just a friend and way too young to hit on...but I had to look away, blush, and chuckle, shake my head. I said, " *sigh*, theres a man ive been talking to, but hes blind. Hes something. He just doesnt seem to see what you see, what my other male friends see.. A GEM. A diamond!! Hes not ready to receive me." The courtship didnt go the way it should. It can be turned around....a big fat maybe. But hes gotta be interested again, attracted, and ready. And I cant sit and wait for him. Maybe this was bad timing. Im ready to accept this and move on. Xoxo leolady

VirgoPal said...

Mirror-

How long should a woman wait for a man to call her after giving him her number? I met a Pharmacist two weeks ago at a holiday party. I was on my way out the door , and he then stopped me and asked for my number after we briefly had a positive interaction. I hesitantly agreed because I was caught off guard, and I can sense that he noticed.He texted me his number almost immediately after I left. However, I haven't heard from him since. I have learned not to wait around for men after my previous experience with reappearing/disappearing men, but I know eventually with this one we will cross paths again in the near future, hence, avoiding future interactions is likely not possible. I tend to think if a man's interested he will try to snag a woman very quickly. I'm not sure if my hesitant behavior caused some sort of uneasiness in terms of calling me, but I know I can't sit around and ponder the "what ifs." So if he calls, do I answer, or is his time up? I figure if I see him again I will just pretend I didn't notice his "absence" and go about my business as usual. However, I think in this case he may have to wait 2-3 days before he get a response!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@VirgoPal,
It's okay to respond in a couple of days after his first attempt. If he takes his time contacting you, you don't want to appear too eager by responding too soon ;-)

Anonymous said...

Dating when your still courting can really help because it will make you understand the personally of each individuals.. It will also helps you find your perfect Match.

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA, My friend and I were having a discussion the other day, and we were both curious to know to what extent are men "trainable?" Also, is there a correlation between how seriously a man takes his career/job and how seriously he takes relationships or is there no connection at all? I've heard of men compartmentalizing, so is this once instance where they would do that?

Know some men that take their careers very seriously, yet they have a completely different view on dating and relationships. For instance, men who wouldn't dare cancel client meetings have no issues cancelling dates on women and playing so-called "games," or men that would never allow a client to pay for a flight have no problems making a woman pay for the flight out to see them. Women, it seems, are just for their amusement.

So where does a woman that's serious about dating, draw the line and say okay, this one's got some issues but is not a lost cause - there's some good potential there, or this one's gonna be way too much work to fix so better move on to the next? How do you determine what's workable or not? After all, no one's perfect?

Perhaps you've already outlined this elsewhere on your site, but is there a general guideline that could be followed by women that want to avoid wasting years on unworthy men? And under what circumstances should a woman consider giving a man a second chance if he's made some errors in the "courtship" period?

Thanks,

Trainer

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Trainer,
"to what extent are men "trainable?"

I don't believe in that concept. Meaning, people ARE who they ARE - what you see is what you get. Sure, they can change for a bit to please someone else, but the reality is that when they're faced with stressful situations...they revert back to old comfortable ways of being, old patterns.

Here are some examples. My ex was a bit of trouble when younger. We dated 4 years, then got engaged. Now mind you, this was in our early 20's. He had cleaned up his act and seemed headed for a new way of being. He remained in that "new act" for quite some time...approximately 4-5 years. But then life caught up, bills and responsibilities now existed, stress, commitments, etc. And when that happened, he went RIGHT BACK to who he had ALWAYS been. And his last words to me one day were, "I don't want anymore responsibilities. I never did. I tried, but I don't want this." And that was that. He was who he was.

In another scenario, a friend of mind dated a man that was divorced and cheated on his wife. He claimed this was out of character for him, a once time thing. She married him eventually. A couple years went by and all was well, but when he became bored and disillusioned with that relationship, guess what he did? He cheated - AGAIN.

People are who they are and what you see is what you get. Many times, people don't change, only their circumstances do. And the only thing that brings about TRUE change, is usually a traumatic life event that forces it or forces a new perspective from a lesson learned. But many people just keep on making the same mistakes in life, over and over again, and never learn from them unfortunately.

"is there a correlation between how seriously a man takes his career/job and how seriously he takes relationships"

No. Those are two different things. One is about "self" (career) and one is about "teamwork" (relationship) - and guess which one wins most of the time, LOL? ;-)

"So where does a woman that's serious about dating, draw the line and say okay, this one's got some issues but is not a lost cause - there's some good potential there"

I say draw it IMMEDIATELY and save yourself a lot of grief later on down the road, even years later. But it's a personal choice really. How much can YOU take? How much can YOU give? Can you always deal with making it about someone else instead of fulfilling your own needs? And is that going to make you happy in the long run? It's a personal choice really.

But I will share this story that I shared elsewhere on this site today. It's about the boy and the snake and it demonstrates how a snake is always just a snake.

One day, a little boy found an injured snake in the grass. He brought it home, gave it a box, loved it and nurtured it back to health. Once the snake was healed, the boy reached into the box to pick up the snake - and it bit him. The boy ran crying and screaming to his mother. His mother calmly said to him, "Honey, what did you expect? It was always a snake."

Again, moral of the story? What you see is generally - what you get.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"this one's gonna be way too much work to fix"

You can't "fix" people dear. Only they can fix themselves and they have to WANT to do that.

"How do you determine what's workable or not?"

You set your own personal limits and boundaries for what you can and can't tolerate, for what you will and won't put up with and for what will and won't make YOU happy.

"is there a general guideline that could be followed by women that want to avoid wasting years on unworthy men?"

You could read this: http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/02/dating-feeling-helpless-what-to-do.html

"under what circumstances should a woman consider giving a man a second chance if he's made some errors in the "courtship" period?"

Again, it's a personal choice. But at the very least, only AFTER an apology has been granted and true remorse has been shown. The next step would then be only AFTER the man's WORDS actually align with his ACTIONS and he begins to PROVE himself a REAL man. If a man is saying one thing and doing another or making a bunch of flowery false promises that he then never follows through on...done.

Gemini50 said...

@ Trainer, your suggestion of "training" sounds like a whole lot of work to me that just doesn't work.
If you want to take on a man as a "project," you will be wasting your good time and energy.
Put that energy and work into you -- you'll get better results.

Anonymous said...

Great answers! Thanks MOA. And I appreciate the real-life examples you included which were very helpful. Truthfully, I would much prefer that the men come "trained" so that I can just relax & enjoy when out on a date. So far I haven't had any luck meeting the "pre-trained" kind so was wondering if I would actually have to start training the ones that are around, lol. But as both you and Gemini50 explained, training men seems like a lot of work for very little benefit so I will not put any effort or hope into that.

"And the only thing that brings about TRUE change, is usually a traumatic life event that forces it or forces a new perspective from a lesson learned."

This is SO true. Or you are a highly disciplined individual with tremendous will-power that takes your relationships just as seriously as your work.

"No. Those are two different things. One is about "self" (career) and one is about "teamwork" (relationship) - and guess which one wins most of the time, LOL? ;-)"

This mismatch between career & relationships/dating was always puzzling to me, but your explanation makes a lot of sense.

"You can't "fix" people dear. Only they can fix themselves and they have to WANT to do that."

You're absolutely right. Unless that individual is motivated to change, the change will never take place.

"at the very least, only AFTER an apology has been granted and true remorse has been shown."

As for second chances, if a man makes a mistake early on in the courtship period, is that in your opinion, much worse than say if he were to make the same mistake later on? I think I read somewhere that it's especially important early on in the process that the man put his best foot forward and try to make the best possible impression because he's in essense showing you how it's gonna be from that point on?


"No" to Training Men

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA.. I have read all your comments and from everybody else.. I really think that guys should court and "win over" the gal. On the other hand relationships and ways to interact with people are so fast and weird now, with all the texting and e mailing that It's difficult to act like when we were 20. I got divorced about seven years ago and haven't really dated anyone. So now I met this guy that I really really like and I don't Know what to do, expect or decide. In my "teen dating" mentality I have decided just to erase him from my contacts and forget about him, but I don't know If I'm being too strict and have to be more "modern"...I am so out of date in the rules about dating and all that complicated stuff. All that changed about three weeks ago when I met this guy. We exchanged numbers and I called to say “hi”.. he suggested we go out for a drink. The date was great. We talked a lot about what each other did for a living, we laughed and had a really nice time..after a couple of hours He said he had to leave, he paid for both of us and asked me for a cab, kissed and hugged me lightly when we said good bye.
Later he texted me saying he had a great time and that he hoped we would meet soon. The next week he said that he was leaving the country for work, but that he would contact me on “sunday”. Monday came and I got a text from him apologizing for his delay and proposed to meet at my place for a movie. I really did not want him to come over because it felt akward for him to come so soon. At the last minute I ended going to his place; which he warned me was not as “nice” as mine because he had roomates ans some other excuse..and apologized in advance. We had a couple of drinks and watched the movie. Obviously we kissed and made up for quite some time. Just like high school “second base” It was soooo great!! And he was very nice and romantic. I left past 2am and he texted me again that it was a great night and to let him know when I got home. By thursday he texted me just to chat, I suggested to meet later but he said he was busy. Saturday comes and he messages me at midnight basically asking “if its not to forward” to come over to his place. Told him I would love to but it was a bit late.
He said a couple of times he really wants to see me “soon”. And he’s going again on a trip next week.
I feel like he is NOT really interested in me. Just wants to have some fun. So should I ask him out or keep waiting for another text. I really don’t know if the rules from my dating era are still valid. Help please

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymou Mar 23, 5:09 AM,
NEVER ask a man out dear - ever. If you do that, you take the lead masculine role. You also have no way of knowing if the MAN is genuinely interested in YOU if you do that. If you do not pull back for HIM to pursue YOU, then how do you know if he really likes you or not....or if he's simply taking you up on your offer? You don't, which is why you need to pull back and see if HE comes to YOU.

A man wrote this article on the subject: http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2011/09/dont-initiate-contact.html

When you pursue a man dear, you place yourself at risk of being used, and it's about to happen to you as we speak. Look at the timeline of what's unfolded here. YOU called him first, then YOU went to HIS place for a date...and then it quickly degrades into him ringing you at midnight for a booty call at HIS place. And that's what happens dear when a woman pursues a man. She opens herself up to carrying the entire relationship along solely on her shoulders and then walks right into situations where she can be used :-(

"I feel like he is NOT really interested in me"

That's because you're doing all the work here to carry this along dear. Don't do that. Make him SHOW you something here via his ACTIONS and PROVE he's genuinely interested. And if he doesn't do that, then you have your answer.

"So should I ask him out or keep waiting for another text."

Neither. Do NOT ask this man out or he's going to zip you into the bedroom to use you for sex immediately and then he'll most likely disappear afterwards with a bunch of lame excuses after he gets what he wants. And don't sit around waiting for him to text either.

Pull back on this guy, don't initiate contact with him, do NOT agree to lame "sit on my sofa" dates with him and do NOT run to his place when he snaps his fingers. Instead, if he asks you to come over to his place, suggest dinner instead on another day and meet at a restaurant. If he balks at that, that's a red flag right there that he's not willing to treat you right and he's not taking this seriously. Make this man call YOU, make him take you on REAL dates (by refusing the sofa ones) and do NOT make yourself available to this man as a last minute option (refuse those offers). And if he doesn't man up, then you know what's up. You know he's not worth your time and he was probably attempting the easy way out here.

In the meantime, read these two pieces:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/08/how-do-you-value-yourself.html

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/02/dating-feeling-helpless-what-to-do.html

"I really don’t know if the rules from my dating era are still valid"

Gentleman still play by traditional rules dear....players seeking sex for nothing however do NOT. So the best way to filter a lazy player from a true gentleman...is by refusing lame date offers, not being the one to initiate contact and keep the relationship moving along....and sit back and observe the mans ACTIONS (or lack thereof) because that's what truly tells the tale of a man's motivations dear.

Gentleman do not sit and wait to be "courted" by a woman like lazy players do. Gentleman DO the courting. They man up, make the phone calls, ask you out on traditional dates and treat you with respect. Gentlemen do not invite you over at midnight to hang out on their sofa. That's disrespectful to a woman and they know that, therefore, they do not ask that of a woman.

If you want a gentleman dear, then stick to traditional ways of dating. If you want to be a part of this modern day superficial "hook up" society, then give into the modern way of doing things.

Because the approach you take determines the final outcome you end up with :-)

Anonymous said...

Mirror, I couldn't help laughing when you said "sit on my sofa dates." Anonymous Mar 23, 5:09 AM, what Mirror is saying is absolutely correct. It isn't too late to start protecting yourself. Refuse those "sit on my sofa dates" from men just like Mirror says. I've gotten plenty of "come sit on my sofa" or "I'll come sit on your sofa" dates, and just like you, I felt uncomfortable because I didn't know him well enough so I didn't let him come over (but didn't go over to his either.) Guys will put the pressure on you and invite you over/invite themselves over because it's just so easy, convenient and cheap to hang-out/hook-up. Because I never did the "sit on my sofa date" with the guy, he finally asked me out to dinner, but guess what, when that day came he cancelled on me so the date never materialized. (And he's never bothered to reschedule either.) So he was a half-interested, lazy guy looking for a hook-up only, not a relationship, so I basically dodged a bullet. Mirror helped me realize all this of course! So let him plan a real date with you if he wants to see anymore of you.

Good luck!


Say NO to "Sit on my sofa dates"

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

I've been on/off communication with a 31yro Jewish guy for the past 2 years from a dating site. He lives in the same city as Libra guy. He compliments me on my inner qualities a lot (rarely appearance), and genuinely seemed interested in my life (he asks a lot of detailed questions).

What I'm wondering is, do you think I should have waited for an apology - or just cut him off sooner?

So, the bad:
- I'm more interested in him as a friend than dating partner (perhaps he picked up on this) - but he's one of the few guys I enjoy talking to ALL the time (I can't even say this about some of my exes)
- once he got a new job, he stopped replying my emails (said he was too "busy"). When I brought it up, he justified his lack of response by saying his friends don't always reply his emails either. Said that's how some people are.
- asked me to call him. When he saw that I was not reacting, he ended up calling me.
- inconsiderate about dating plans -- insisted on a restaurant in his neighborhood (says the food is better) rather than where my hotel was
- he didn't reply my text the day I arrived in his city (said he switched to a new cell-phone provider that day, messages were lost); gave him benefit of the doubt...I did flake on our dinner plans, and changed it to afternoon (so I could meet another guy, LOL)
- couple months later - he helped me with something. He initiated a text to let me know... when I responded, HE DID NOT REPLY! (this pissed me off badly)
- another couple months later of NC, he messaged me online. I'm cold and took a long time to respond. He asked where have I been, blah blah. Tried really hard to get me talking. Then had the nerve to ask me when is he going to hear from me again. I said, "Maybe when you actually respond to texts." He replied, "Text me now and I'll text you back like crazy." I ignored that, went offline.
- a week later, he added me to Google+. Ignored.
- about 7-8 months later, he saw me online. He sent a message, ":-0" which I received later on. I replied a week later with, ":-?" NO RESPONSE FROM HIM FOR YET ANOTHER MONTH!
- I went back on the dating site recently (and changed my city to his, since I will be visiting). A day later, he messaged me. Tried to be cool and funny in the message... said he thought about me the other day... asked me what's up. I haven't responded.

I feel nothing but pure anger towards this guy. And I shouldn't let it get to me (I don't even like him in the romantic sense anymore), but his actions really tick me off.

Mirror, should I have cut this guy off MUCH sooner? Like when he stopped replying my emails? I feel like an idiot. He keeps initiating (making me think there's SOME interest there), and while I try to keep my cool by taking time to respond, he still doesn't reply back most of the time!!

Perhaps I'm just hopeful that one day these guys (well, just him and Libra guy) will man up. :-/

Sorry for the overly detailed long comment; part of it is wanting to give more details, but also to express some of my anger. Thanks as always for reading, Mirror. :-)

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
Well, while each situation is different, I think I probably would've stopped right here:

"couple months later - he helped me with something. He initiated a text to let me know... when I responded, HE DID NOT REPLY! (this pissed me off badly)"

Up until that point, he was being fairly reliable given the one or two excuses he provided which may have been valid, who knows. But that one right there above...no excuse.

But it appears that's about the time you kinda' gave up on him anyway, LOL ;-)

Either way dear, it's not a total loss here...you held your own with this guy well. When he started to flake, you didn't become insecure and "jump" or start "do, do, doing" - instead, you held your own, stood solid, forced him here and there to step up - and I believe he "heard" that. And when dating dear, that's really the best you can do, you win some, you lose some...but at least you didn't get run over and you left with your dignity ya' know ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much Mirror for pointing out that I held my own and forced him to step up. That makes me feel a whole lot better now (and less angry at myself and him).

Another thing bugging me recently is I have a couple guys who have shown interest in me over a span of 1-2 years ... and I don't reciprocate (for some reason I'm more interested in stalking their online behavior).

I notice every couple of months they go back on the dating site... message me (if I'm visible)...stay online for 1-2 weeks... then they take down their profile again. (Btw, I have messaged them in the past, but no longer respond.)

They're not casual "how are you" type of messages. They're ones showing romantic interest; one guy likes to repeatedly message me about how he still finds my profile edits funny, wishes he could know me, and wanted to talk to me again.

Then like clockwork, a week later... he vanishes.

I don't get it. What do you think is going on? Are they on a relationship break?

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
"What do you think is going on? Are they on a relationship break?"

Could be either or, but I wouldn't concern myself with it. Especially if you're not interested. Men circle around and around, like fish in a barrel LOL...it is what it is ;-)

Anonymous said...

Mirror,

One 33 year old friendly Scorpio guy I previously blasted about 1.5 years ago (I was annoyed by his multiple texts), circled back. You're so right about them circling around like fish in a barrel, LOL.

I'm wondering if you think he's using me for his fantasies or he's just a take-it-slow guy? We've been in touch for about 3 weeks.

Some highlights:
- asked for my number quickly, and texted me good morning / good night texts
- couple days in, he sent 2 pictures of himself (one was a silly one)..and suggested I send more pictures of myself. The picture request annoyed me (I have 7 pictures on my profile!!), so I just ignored him for a day
- he continued texting... and would ask about my weekend plans, yet not ask me out. After the weekend passed, he'd ask if I had fun, what did I do etc.
- a few days ago, he texted, "I'm actually looking forward to meeting you one day. :) I think our personalities really mesh." ONE DAY!?! I joked, "One day I'll be dead, don't say I didn't warn ya." He replied, "Why don't you want to meet one day? Just be text friends haha. Ok, we can talk until NOVEMBER lol" I replied, "Lol I don't need text friends." Then he said he was being sarcastic. Wished me good night, and repeated that our personalities really do match.
- after that convo, I pulled WAY back. I'm taking 24-48 hrs to respond to each text. He's sending multiple ones; I can sense him trying to get my attention. He emailed me a picture of a funny monkey yesterday.

I actually have started to like him when he shared some personal details about why he moved to my city. That's why I kept talking to him. But it sounds like he wants to talk until NOVEMBER before asking me out.

I guess part of me is thinking, what if I let him go and he is actually a good guy who just happens to need to take things EXTREMELY slow (he was previously in a 6 year relationship with a woman with kids back in his city).

You know how I'm crazy about hot passionate guys who sweep me off my feet, haha, so I don't know what to do about this one. He hasn't flirted with me at all; just shows me consistent attention, yet doesn't ask me out! It just feels like he's stalling...so he can date me later. He's starting to grow on me, which worries me. Don't know if I should NC until he asks me out.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
Well, no contact is only to be used on men treating you badly, or for you to get over a breakup and move on, or possibly to get your ex back. In this case, he really doesn't qualify for that. It appears he's attempting to get his foot in the door here, but he's unsure of himself, probably lacks a bit of confidence with regards to that and honestly...is striking me that he expects YOU to ask HIM out and take the lead here. Which tells me he's insecure and prefers to be chased most likely. And that's why a date isn't happening and hasn't happened.

You can do as you wish here, but if you like him, there's no harm in having casual conversation with him. Just keep moving forward and dating other men. Don't sit and wait around for this one to make a move. You can still continue speaking with him while you're moving forward and dating others, I don't see that as a problem. But I do have a sneaking suspicion that this man is waiting for you to take the lead and give chase. Insecure men tend to behave in that wishy-washy type of manner.

Anonymous said...

@Mirror,

Thanks for your take on Scorpio guy! After I pulled back and took 48 hours to respond to his text...he has been MIA for an entire week! Yep, officially a DM now.

I guess he realized I wasn't going to give him the ego boost from endless texting, and that I wasn't impressed with him sending me random pictures of monkeys.

There's finally a new guy I'm semi-excited about though... he's from Ukraine and has been here for 3 years. Wow, maybe it's the cultural difference but this guy has completely impressed me with his directness.

From asking for my name and number, then not BSing through endless texts, and going straight to asking me when he could call, following up with a call, then setting up a date for this Saturday. :-)

The only red flag I see is that his profile said he was looking for friends (since he's still pretty new to the city). So I'm not entirely sure if he's lonely, or he's genuinely interested in me.

Mirror, would you happen to know anything about Ukrainian men and how they date?

I tried googling, but there's nothing but websites about marrying Ukrainian women, LOL.

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Going through divorce but met a really nice guy about a year ago. I really like him. I accepted the sofa dates since I didn't want to go "out". Not a great move since things moved too fast. He has withdrawn quite a bit to just playing Words with Friends game online and occasional texts and halfway hookups (3rd base and a 1/2) every other weekend. In our last meeting, I just finally asked if he just wanted to "play" or if he was really interested. He said he is interested and wouldn't have proceeded if he wasn't but with my situation so uncertain he was uncomfortable getting too emotionally involved when I am going through the longest divorce known to man. But that our chemistry is incredible and he enjoys my personality etc. That maybe we should slow down the physical and increase communication and really see what we have because the chemistry is so blinding. I said ok. He seemed shocked and said "Ok?" I said yes, that I didn't plan on force feeding him and that communicating more and focusing on that would be good.

FYI...despite rarely talking on the phone, he does things like share information about his work and engagements. His accolades, if he is on TV or has something he can send a clip of (email, youtube videos, etc.) I feel technologically connected to his life but could not participate fully in person. He has invited me to things and I have attended three but of course not as his special friend or anything. (He is a pastor- divorced.) He is always very cordial and comes to speak. We chat a bit but I leave quickly so no one gets any ideas.

Well I would not initiate this increased communicating by texting or calling. He has texted a bit more but he really has increased these Darned GAMES more. I think he thinks we are communicating more! Do I clarify I mean talking on the phone?? Not texting and chatty comments Instant messaging in a game! Omg. He is 50! (Now, he DID tell me early on that he hates talking on the phone but he did a little bit in the beginning. Now, we MAY speak 10 mins. TOPS a week).

Well, I found out this week my divorce date is a week away. We got slid into a spot! (I am Happy- new page and Sad- 30 years down the tube) With my fella here though, I think I should hang on til then and see what happens when I am officially free. I haven't told him. In fact, I am thinking of waiting and telling him when it is all done (since I am sure I am in no danger of hearing from him via phone prior to the Big Day).

To do:
I won't see him again prior to my divorce
No more sofa dates......

Your thoughts on where we are? Suggestions on how to proceed? And the signs to watch for as I transition?

Thanks for the information. I am learning alot. Application is the thing....

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 25, 7:57 AM,
"Do I clarify I mean talking on the phone?"

I wouldn't do that just yet. I'd wait another 4-5 weeks for that so that the divorce situation can be addressed first, he can then be officially notified of the divorce events, and then given the opportunity to change his behavior after having that new knowledge. If he doesn't change his behavior after that, then that's when you can consider whether or not this is real or just something shallow.

"he was uncomfortable getting too emotionally involved when I am going through the longest divorce known to man"

Soon, he will have the uncomfortable aspect removed from the situation for him. So it's his actions after this happens that will tell the tale. If he steps up after that, great. If he doesn't, I'd seriously consider moving on because that means that was just an excuse :-(

pisces girl said...

Hi ladies! my question is when you are getting to know someone and you like them and want them to commit to you and be exclusive with you is using jealousy as a tactic a good idea? The guy im currently getting to know lives in another city so i havent even gotten a chance to go on a date with him yet! i met him a couple years ago and he just kind of resurfaced recently and we are currently getting to know each other. So far i like him and feel he would be a good catch but i dont have time to waste anymore. I would like for things to progress quite quickly between us but of course i dont want him to know that im in this mind frame or that make it seem that im taking control to push things along. i have already expressed to him that i would like for him to come to my city so we can get to know each other in person. I want him to be the man and do what is required to win my heart over. Is it ok to tell him that im dating other men since nothing has been made official between us? or will this just induce unecessary anger and rage and make him think im someone that cant be trusted or loyal to one man?i know trust honesty and loyalty from a woman is important to him. And i wouldnt be lying either its true that another man (not too interested in him though) who lives in my city has asked me out(just to go for icecream but still! lol) can i tell long distance man this?perhaps it will make him make the 3.5 hr drive to come see me sooner than he is planning to -he hasnt even set a time frame to come he's just saying hopefully soon but what is that?? set a time and a date!

Thanks for any advice!
ps- i dont want him to think he "has me" until he's made it official and put forth the necessary effort required. Isnt this the MOA way ? he does seem like the jealous type-could this tactic work in my favor?

piscesgirl said...

Update to my previous post! so Mr from another city came to my city as planned last week and correction it's only a 3 hour drive (not sure if that's considered long distance??), anyways I was really excited for him to come and finally get to know him better in person after a month and a half of messaging and talking on the phone. He came on a Friday evening, picked me up from my house and from there on we basically spent the whole weekend together-till he left on Sunday evening. On Friday night I didn't stay at the hotel with him but on Saturday I did and even though things did get pretty hot between us we didn't have sex but i knew it wasn't a good idea for me to stay because the temptation was definitely there. I didn't plan on staying and I know I shouldn't have but with him being from out of town I just wanted to spend more time together and i didn't know when i would see him again. I also hadn't cuddled with a man for so long and that's all I really wanted to do with him. We vibed together pretty good and I surprisingly felt very comfortable and at ease with him and the feeling as he told me was mutual-it was nice. He was a gentleman too- holding doors open, and paying for dinner and drinks when we went out and he bought us tickets to go see an equestrian show-something i've never experienced before. I appreciated the thought and planning. He also met my best girlfriend and was nice and respectful towards her and she really liked him too. Not to mention I was attracted to him. I was worried about him being shorter but he is actually a little taller than me when im not wearing heels, and on top of all of that he's smart and educated. Sounds like a perfect catch right???hmmm, im not so sure.... i'll get to that in a minute.

piscesgirl said...

We went out one night with my girlfriend and he drove and bought us drinks and acted right till we decided we wanted to go eat after because we were all starving. So we get there and he orders his food and then turns around and asks me and my friend if we wanted anything. My friend insisted when we got there that she was paying for her own food because she just has too much pride like that but i was watching and observing to see if he would let her pay. In my culture a man would be insulted if a woman in his company tried to pay for anything no matter how small and i was kind of hoping he would be that way. But she ended up paying for her own food and he obviously had no problem letting her do that and then he asked me if i wanted anything-obviously i did because we all agreed we were hungry but i just said i was ok and he didn't press me or insist i get anything he just said ok and ordered his own food and we left. I guess i just have to accept that men from different cultures are different and it wasn't so much about a ten dollar donair as it was about the fact that he didn't really take charge of the situation and i just felt like he he was happier just paying his own food. So that did bother me a little even though my girlfriend thought i was over reacting and he was a perfect gentleman. When we got back to his hotel he ate it all front of me-sure he offered me a bite but i declined. i was still starving. I was a little disappointed maybe i was over reacting and just looking for some fault in him but regardless he sensed the changed in my attitude. We got to talking a little and all i told him was that i have high expectations and that there are cultural differences between us but i didn't mention why i was actually bothered...he then went on to say that he had been nothing but nice and a gentleman and then -you wont believe this, he mentioned (something along the lines) of how i was the one acting like a princess because i hadn't reached into my purse for my wallet the whole time and he said that was just him being real with me....my mouth almost dropped when he said that! i couldn't hide my disappointment and i told him that everything nice and gentleman-like that he had done up until that point had been wiped out with that one comment and no man had ever made me feel bad about paying for me. And it wasn't always easy for me to let him pay for everything and sit there and not offer but ive decided that is the kind of man i want in my life and for my future-the kind of man who is able and willing to take care of me(and any future children) and make sure im well taken care of and provided for and if he cant make a small invest in me in the beginning of courtship- than when??i know there are men who are more than happy to take care of their woman because that is what makes them feel good. My sister has that with her man and there is never any mention of what he does for her and how much he spends on her or worse yet him having the nerve to say she doesn't reach into her wallet and pay for stuff. He knows better and she wouldn't deal with him if he was like that.

piscesgirl said...

Anyways, after that i kept that comment in the back of my head and since it was his birthday a couple days later i took him out for a nice dinner somewhere the next day and paid i also gave him nice bath and body works lotions...we then spent the day in the park just walking around and talking and then he left. We stayed in touch but i wanted to make sure he felt like an idiot for making that comment and basically told him that was such a turn off and again mentioned the cultural differences and how inappropriate that was..he called me this past Friday to tell me he wanted to be spontaneous and go to the mountains with me. I wasn't sure if he was being serious or not but i definitely was not planning on taking a long drive after a long work week and being tired. The next day (Saturday) i asked him if he was still coming that night (i knew he wasn't) but it was worth a shot and i told him i was excited to see him again and then he said if i was serious we could meet at the halfway point between our cities for 7. After reading the rules again i realized that even meeting halfway is tantamount to me going to him and its true that men can drive for hours to go watch a football game or in his case hop on a plane to go see a football game on the spur of the moment. So he should for the first few months be coming to me.And he should be initiating the meetings, planning the dates and yes paying!i do feel a little bad because until i take possession of my condo he cant stay with me so he has to stay in a hotel. He did ask me again when it would be ready and told me he cant wait to cuddle with me in my fancy condo..that comment made me wonder if staying in a hotel is a big issue for him. After i didn't reply to his meet me halfway text he messaged me back a couple of hours later saying we should leave it for another time when we plan it out more. Lol so he was basically trying to reject me -on Friday he was Mr spontaneity and on Saturday he wanted to make plans..smh so i replied by saying lol i wasn't planning to go and i don't drive long distances like that(halfway point is only 1.5 hours lol). i thought he would of called me after that and he did- 3 times in the middle of the night! so i didn't answer...... i want him to know that if he wants to talk to me he has to call me an appropriate time....So the next day i was expecting a call from him but there wasn't one just a message late in the afternoon asking me how my weekend was. No mention of the 3 calls in the middle of the night and i know he was drinking that night from his picture the next day so it could of been a drunken phone call which im glad i dodged.I didn't reply to his last message asking what i got into on the weekend because i wanted a damn phone call (at an appropriate time)and he knew something really important was happening this weekend in my family and he didn't bother to call me to ask me how that went arghhhh so very frustrating!!! i know he's stubborn and also has a bit of a superiority complex too and thinks im attracted to him mainly because of the degree he holds.Sure it helps but i told him being a lawyer is a professional designation and that's not what makes him a man. I always tell him things like that so he doesn't think im too enamoured by him for that reason alone or think that id be afraid of losing him. He still hasn't called me since Saturday night and not even a message today. He recently updated his picture to -"too many critics with no credentials" hmm wonder if he's trying to make some kind of point there lol i really don't know what to make of this man Mirror.......

piscesgirl said...

he had been a gentleman for the most part and he makes me laugh before he gets carried away and then he just becomes annoying, he is intelligent and he is also spiritual like me. We have pretty good conversations and feel comfortable in each others presence. There are a lot of qualities i like about him- a lot of pros but there is no perfect man in this world-what is a girl to do...sighhh should i reply? or should i continue to let my silence speak here? i made it clear to him that im still in the dating scene since he isn't my boyfriend and were not exclusive and i had a life before him and there are men who are interested in me and they are taking me out and treating me well(and there is no sex). I wanted to tell him that so he knows im not sitting by the phone waiting for him to call but the truth is i wish he did..i really just don't know how to determine when a man's faults and imperfections can or cant be overlooked. At the end of the day i want a man who can make my life better and easier and never make me feel less than because i have no credentials(maybe that wasn't directed at me though??)..your thoughts mirror? am i being too harsh? i know i made some mistakes along the way too but for the most part ive been trying to date with more self esteem and confidence and have the im the prize kind of attitude.i have to force myself to believe im worthy. He asked me if im scared of him hurting me or just indifferent. The truth is im scared but i didn't tell him that so maybe that's why im finding reasons to push him away.. i don't know im so confused right now:(( men like him don't come by every day but i don't want to over look the ungentleman-like behavior and stupid things said either. Now is when the boundaries need to be set after all you teach people how to treat you. i feel like the distance may be an issue too since hes been so adamant about me meeting him halfway and being reasonable. He has come once already but how many times can or i should i expect him to come especially when i want him to pay for everything including his stay at a hotel? i want to be reasonable and fair too but i feel like i shouldn't be trying to make things too comfortable for him either

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Pisces Girl,
"how i was the one acting like a princess because i hadn't reached into my purse for my wallet the whole time and he said that was just him being real with me"

I don't like how he said that. Using the word "princess" there is a derogatory slam if you ask me. A woman is NOT acting like a princess if she doesn't pay...SHE'S ACTING LIKE A LADY. If he wants a dude or a gal pal, he should go find one. But on dates, women should behave like ladies and men - should BE MEN.

"no man had ever made me feel bad about paying for me"

Don't feel bad about that - he - as a man - should feel embarrassed for speaking disrespectfully to a woman like that and calling her names like princess - acting like a friggin' school boy on the playground calling names.

"it wasn't always easy for me to let him pay for everything and sit there and not offer but ive decided that is the kind of man i want in my life"

You deserve that dear - don't let him convince you that you should settle for less than you deserve.

"if he cant make a small invest in me in the beginning of courtship - than when?"

Exactly. If he's showing signs already that he's unwilling to "invest" in any way with you now, then it won't get better, it'll get worse. And if he's not prepared to invest like that to impress a woman and show his willingness to do so - then he shouldn't be dating. My male friends that cannot afford to date like that - don't date - and when I ask them why, they come right out and tell me that they cannot afford to treat a woman as she deserves to be treated and they don't want to disrespect her or embarrass themselves by not being able to - so they simply just don't date, until they're able to do it properly.

"has a bit of a superiority complex too and thinks im attracted to him mainly because of the degree he holds...being a lawyer...He recently updated his picture to -"too many critics with no credentials"

He DOES have a superiority complex. He probably uses that degree to impress women and honestly, a cheap lawyer is a real turnoff - it's just about as bad as a cheap suit. When you have the money to date properly yet you still refuse to do so, then you call the woman names like princess because she's expecting to be treated like a lady, treated special, and she's behaving as one, and then you post something insinuating that she's got no credentials like him - you're signaling that your ego is in your way. He has a big ego dear and that's not a good sign.

"but there is no perfect man in this world - what is a girl to do"

No, no one is perfect dear - but that doesn't give you a right to say hurtful things to them, call them names or make them feel bad about themselves. What's a girl to do? She's to date only the men that make her feel good. She's to date only the men that treat her with respect and that she enjoys spending time with. She is NOT to date men that make her feel bad about herself. It's really that simple - date only the men that give you positive, good feelings - and toss away the ones that don't.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"i really just don't know how to determine when a man's faults and imperfections can or cant be overlooked"

When they don't make you feel bad - when being with the man, in spite of his faults, is still an enjoyable experience for you. When it's not, it's time to go.

"At the end of the day i want a man who can make my life better and easier and never make me feel less than because i have no credentials"

If that's what you want dear, I don't think this man's willing to give or invest in that manner with anyone. It's been one weekend, and he's already calling you names and making you feel bad about yourself, and insulting you by signaling that you don't have credentials, while he does - as if that makes him better than you. I think if you continued dating this man, you'd find him to be very arrogant.

"He has come once already but how many times can or i should i expect him to come especially when i want him to pay for everything including his stay at a hotel?"

I'd say initially, you can expect him to do that at least the first 3 times, if not more. If a guy isn't willing to go out of his way for you for a measly 3 dates, when clearly he makes a living that provides enough for him to easily do this, it's a red flag. If he's not going to go out of his way for you now - then what does a future with this man look like? I'm starting to think he's seeking a doormat that he can boss around and call names to and behave arrogantly towards (and she'll take it) - I don't think he's looking for a real woman that's strong and confident - because I think he'd actually compete with a woman like that (because of his arrogance and ego) and it's probably one of the reasons he doesn't date lawyers like himself. Not only are they "take charge" masculine types, but they're confident and strong in a sense as well, and I bet he doesn't like that.

He said he likes a feminine woman before right? (If this is the same guy I remembering). Well, doesn't he realize that feminine women - EXPECT TO BE TREATED LIKE A LADY? He said he didn't date lawyers because they're too masculine and leading...but then he turns around and calls you a princess for submitting to his lead on the dates. So what does this man want? Does he want a woman that is masculine and pays her own way - or does he want a woman that's feminine and acts like a lady? If it were me, I'd be curious for him to answer that question, because he's talking out both sides of his mouth there. You can't have both - you can't have a feminine woman that takes charge and pays her own way - because THAT'S NOT FEMININE, it's masculine. So what does this guy want?

He either dates masculine women that take charge, lead, and pay their own way - or he dates feminine women that submit to his lead, let him take charge and pay their way....but you can't have both - because the minute a woman pays her own way - she's behaving masculine, which he previously said he didn't like. So I think he needs to become more self aware about his own behavior to figure out what the hell it is that he really truly wants - because he's talking out both sides of his mouth.

If he wants a woman to pay her own way and behave masculine, the he should date those female lawyers he referred to previously. If he wants a feminine woman who submits to his lead, then he better get used to actually manning up, being a man, taking the lead and providing for her.

He wants his cake (feminine submissive woman) and he wants to eat it too (but she pays her own way, like a masculine dude). He can't have both. He has to pick - does he want a feminine, submissive woman, or a masculine, leading one? That's what I'd be interested to know. He's probably not having luck dating because he's seeking something that doesn't exist.

pisces girl said...

exactly mirror! he cant have both! and i basically told him that if he wants a real lady he needs to act like a real man plain and simple and i was very forth coming in telling him that if he is more concerned with saving money or not spending it maybe its best if he just focus on his career and make that his priority and he told me he doesnt want to do that (pick his career over me). Yes he is a lawyer but in all fairness he just graduated last year and told me he has 70k in student debt and he is technically a "student at law" until october when he gets sworn in by the judge. But he still manages to take trips and do a lot of things that involve spending money and his finances shouldnt be my concern anywaysa. I know what i want and i told him im not willing to settle. And i also know he has high expectations for a woman and her being feminine, thoughful, reasonable and trusthworthy are among the most important qualities he wants and i am all those things. Im very feminine and he even told me he loved that about me. And he wants someone who finds him funny and even when i dont i still laugh and he wanted a woman who feels relaxed around him which i do.And he even admitted that he likes a woman who challenges him and holds him accountable which i also do. So he finds what he is looking for and now he's at risk of me seriously contemplating walking away..thanks Mirror

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror!

You have helped me so much already & would like to thank you for that,
I wanted to ask you about a Taurus -me/Sag- him relationship.He does not seem like the darker side as we have dated, slept together, hes very affectionate & I really like him alot. However you have said that these a bad combos in your experience & I have tried to do the natal charts to see more clearly but I cant understand how to do see these more clearly. I am Taurus(Sun, Venus, Mercury in house X) & he Sag( has Sun & Mercury)
I have no idea what these mean but I also saw that you have remarked on how great a Taurus & Sag can get on in life.Im just curious as we get on great but being a Taurus like you I know the compatabilities are not necessarily there.ANY ADVIVE APPRECIATED MIRROR!
Thanks Mirror!


xxx

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 1, 9:31 PM,
"I wanted to ask you about a Taurus/Sag...Im just curious as we get on great but being a Taurus like you I know the compatabilities are not necessarily there"

Well as with anything in life, there's good and bad, and it all depends on the individuals themselves, and their willingness to overcome obstacles together.

One of the common ways that the Taurus/Sag combo can go sour is through conflicting energies. Taurus is an Earth sign, which is grounded and stable - a "Fixed" (firm) sign, sometimes to the point of what other would call boring LOL. And Sag is a Fire sign, which is intense and carefree - a "Mutable" (changeable) sign, sometimes to the point of recklessness. With these conflicting energies always at play, Sag can find Taurus to be rigid and boring. And Taurus can find Sag to be reckless and careless.

And it can play out in small ways. Taurus might be a homebody, while Sag is itching to go out every Friday night. Taurus can be good with money, while Sag spends freely without consideration. And Sag might want to climb Mt. Everest, while Taurus is researching all of the reasons why that would be dangerous. And Sag might want to try new things, while Taurus likes to stick with what's "tried and true."

The up-side to the conflicting energy that can actually work to their advantage, if both parties are willing, is that they can teach each other new things, give each other new perspectives - and lend credence to the old saying that "opposites attract." Taurus can become a solid "sanctuary" of sorts that Sag can lean back on when it's time to slow down and regroup. And Sag can get Taurus off the sofa and into the great outdoors when it's time to kick things up a notch.

But how those energies play out in the relationship - is entirely based on the individuals in the relationship and their willingness to embrace each others differences.

As for me, my experience was with a "unevolved" Sag displaying his darker negative traits. He frazzled my nerves, brought chaos into my life and things played out like a scandalous novel - a hollywood movie full of astounding secrets that set my world upside down.

My father however is an evolved Sag that displays his "light" - Sags positive traits of high intelligence and broad knowledge mixed with unending flexibility, seeking "truth" and a sense of adventure. So it all really just depends on the individuals and where they're at in life, which traits they're displaying and their willingness to overcome obstacles.

Anonymous said...

Mirror,
Would you consider it a neg if a guy jokingly asks if your hair will grow out by the day of the hangout?

I talked to this Leo guy when I had long long hair but we never met up because it seemed very casual and I lost interest (he would keep inviting me to fundraiser events that would cost me money as he never mentioned covering my ticket).

5 months later, I went back online with a new short hair pic...and he once again seemed interested and asked for my number. Gave it to him to see what happens.

I let him know my availability a week in advance - and he later jokingly asked if my hair will grow back by then. I didn't find it funny at all, because I feel there's some truth to the comment (that he preferred my long hair).

I ignored his hair comment and he followed up days later asking where I was. Whether I was still down for a weekend hangout.

Please knock some sense into me if you think I am being overly sensitive, thank you mirror!

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
It was a neg, a veiled insult, and it's not surprising that it affected your attraction to him :-(

Anonymous said...

Mirror,
Thanks for confirming what I felt...I figured it was an insult, but I'm always unsure, because I have a fear of being too uptight and unable to take a joke.

Like what do you think about guys who suggest a meeting -- but the person who loses the bet has to pay for drinks/food?

I encountered this with a guy from a speed dating event earlier (fortunately I didn't have to pay, but the guys spent $45 to attend), and I just didn't feel like responding. Should I just be FUN and go on these bet dates?

It happened a second time -- with an acquaintance who became closer. I wasn't sure what it meant, so I just turned him down.

Then it started happening to me online... a guy proposes some bet that's related to something we were talking about...and whoever the loser was, they would have to cover the bill.

It sounds like a playful thing, but I don't know anymore. Is this some PUA routine? Mirror how would you respond to these bets?

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
To me, those guys proposing those bets don't sound serious about dating at all. If they were serious, they wouldn't be attempting to turn it into a game.

And after you mentioned encountering it a few times, my guess is that yea, this sounds like ridiculous advice that "players" and PUA's are probably coming up with as a way to have a 50/50 chance at not paying for a date, which tells me that men who actually propose this aren't all that serious about dating in the first place if they're proposing playing games like that on the very first date.

I wouldn't waste an ounce of time with any of these jokesters because they don't seem to be taking dating all that seriously and most likely, would end up being real disappointments on an actual date.

Anonymous said...

Hi, MOA: I 'met' someone kind of interesting online and he started to reach out via text. I don't mind this kind of communication initially. It seems a bit like email in order to establish some interest. Then I would expect things may progress to phone, then meeting if we both seemed interested and engaged. This weekend we shared some texts that I enjoyed. I ended up falling asleep on Saturday night and did not respond to his latest text. I did not hear from him on Sunday. Not sure if I should text him or not.

I'm trying to let him be the aggressor, but I was the one to stop the communication. Now it's Monday. Any advice? thanks, Claire.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Claire,
"I'm trying to let him be the aggressor, but I was the one to stop the communication. Now it's Monday. Any advice?"

Let him be the pursuer here. It doesn't matter if you didn't respond after a long conversation, sometimes conversations drop in those instances and folks know that, it's not a big deal. Let HIM WONDER about you, about why that happened possibly. . .and then see if he seeks you out.

Men who are genuinely interested will always seek you out, and many will go through great hurdles to do so ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you!! I've learned so much here, I'm quite sure my next relationship will be a lot different and in a better way!! Claire

Anonymous said...

Mirror, I totally agree with what you're saying here, but I worry that guys in general have gotten so used to the switched gender roles that they can't tell if a woman is interested unless she's throwing herself at him and giving him gas money to come see her. Which I am not about to do, lol. Even good guys who would seem to WANT to prove themselves seem to be used to being pursued. It's even worse because i am kind of shy and reserved by nature- AND I work in a male dominated, intensely physical profession-so I am always toning down my femininity and used to just being one of the guys. I'm all about earrings and tinted lip balm even on my toughest days, but can't seem to get past putting off this "ya'll are like my brothers" vibe that does not do me any favors in the dating world:

Anonymous said...

Additionally, I go out a lot by myself to see bands, etc., dress pretty modestly and don't try to draw attention to myself, but I am always approached by weirdos and CRAZIES!!! Generally no one nice, though-help...I need to figure out how to flirt a little and be brave enough to show interest in a good guy, but not be noticed and followed down the street by a jerk/psycho. And how can you seem approachable but not desperate to a friend/coworker, etc? I contacted an old friend from years ago to say that I had always liked him, because I figured I would never see him again and it didn't matter. He responded in kind! And he never really knew that I was into him...argh

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 28, 10:19 PM,
"how can you seem approachable but not desperate"

Well, believe it or not, men do not need to be smacked on the head with a 2x4 in order to receive a "green light" to proceed LOL. Well, at least men functioning emotionally at a normal level wont need that. The only men who need that kind of extremely heavy, extremely reassuring, over-the-top type of behavior from a woman are the very insecure men (the men who overcompensate to mask their insecurities with a bunch of macho bravado).

You can become approachable and send "green lights" to a man with very subtle behavior - it all starts with body language. . .otherwise known as flirting (sending non-verbal cues):

"The capacity of men and women to flirt turns out to be a remarkable set of behaviors embedded deep in our psyches. . .A silent language of elaborate visual and other gestures, flirting is "spoken" by intellect-driven people as well as instinct-driven animals. . .Social psychologist Timothy Perper, Ph.D., an independent scholar and writer based in Philadelphia, and anthropologist David Givens, Ph.D., spent months in dimly lit lounges documenting these flirtation rituals. Like the ear wiggles, nose flicks and back arches that signal "come hither". . .the women smiled, gazed, swayed, giggled, licked their lips, and aided and abetted by the wearing of high heels, they swayed their backs, forcing their buttocks to tilt out and up and their chests to thrust forward.

The fact that flirting is a largely nonexplicit drama doesn't mean that important information isn't being delivered in those silent signals. By swaying her hips, or emphasizing them in a form-fitting dress, a flirtatious woman is riveting attention on her pelvis, suggesting its ample capacity for bearing a child. By arching her brows and exaggerating her gaze, her eyes appear large in her face, the way a child's eyes do, advertising, along with giggles, her youth and "submissiveness." By drawing her tongue along her lips, she compels attention to what many biologists believe are facial echoes of vaginal lips, transmitting sexual maturity and her interest in sex. By coyly averting her gaze and playing "hard to get," she communicates her unwillingness to give sex to just anyone or to someone who will love her and leave her.

Somewhere beyond flirtation, as a relationship progresses, courtship gets under way, and with it, intellectual processes resume. Two adults can then evaluate potential mates more rationally, think things over and decide whether to love, honor and cherish."

You can ready the full article on the psychology of flirting here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199901/flirting-fascination

But I think you get the picture. There's an entire world of non-verbal language and action cues that exists, that we're all wired to understand the meaning of. Even very insecure men who overcompensate to hide their insecurities with macho behavior and bravado understand it. Trouble is, they're insecure and as a result, do not have the confidence to follow through and take action. . .unless the woman bangs him over the head and jumps into his lap and does the work for him. But those men, insecure men, are NOT men you want to date. They don't make for good lover, husbands or boyfriends anyway because their insecurities cause behavior problems, and their hefty needs soon exhaust their partners and deplete them emotionally.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

But gentlemen, and men functioning at a normal emotional level - they understand these non-verbal cues, and they have the confidence to strike up a conversation, or participate in one intellectually should the woman strike up a conversation first. And with these men, all it really takes to give a green light is a smile, repeated eye contact held for more than 3 seconds, a flip of the hair, a touch on the shoulder or arm, laughing at their jokes, engaging in conversation with them and showing that you're enjoying yourself when doing so. . .it's really that simple.

If an emotionally mature man is at a party and he sees a woman repeatedly making eye contact with him and smiling, eventually he'll strike up a conversation with her, or she'll do so with him. If he's telling jokes and she's laughing, and she's touching her face or playing with her hair, and her eyes are wide, and she's touching him on the arm or shoulder when she laughs and this goes on for an sustained length of time. . .trust me. The man will walk away and say to his buddies, "Dude, you see that girl over there? I think she digs me."

That's all it takes. And men are so highly perceptive to this non-verbal language that man times, they're TOO EAGER about it and read into it too much and make mistakes when interpreting a woman's body language. Ever see a woman smile at a man in a bar and then he runs to his buddies and exclaims, "Dude she smiled at me - she wants me!!" A smile was all it took for this man to interpret that as "ding, ding, ding - green light" LOL. In this case, he got it wrong and he jumped the gun without receiving the other non-verbal cues. But it just goes to show you that men know what these non-verbal cues from a woman mean. They don't need slugged over the head with a 2x4 to understand it LOL ;-)

You can easily draw others towards you without saying a word just by taking advantage of the understanding of non-verbal language that Mother Nature has engrained into our psyches. And then once you've got their attention, engaging in conversation and emitting more of these non-verbal cues is more than enough to get the message across.

If it wasn't, and none of this worked. . .the human species would've died out long ago LOL, because this non-verbal language has been spoken and understood for eons ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks Mirror! :-)

"And do you know that romance provides a feeling of security for a woman? When a man is willing to take the time to plan dates, provide for them, and make the woman a top priority, making her feel special - this makes a woman feel secure with you."

Couldn't agree more! And you know the interesting thing is - I feel so secure, I find myself looking for reasons to be insecure. I've been emotionally struggling with being out of my comfort zone.

He's still really excited to see me (and we've even planned for an outfit theme for our next dinner date - fun!), but I'm constantly putting a negative spin to the things that should be seen as quirks or something positive.

For example, he likes to share what he does during the day, cool things he did at work, how his workout went etc. At first I thought he was just really open, but now I'm starting to think that he's self-centered and likes talking about himself. Like he's a narcissist who just wants an audience. I feel like I'm his only outlet for expressing all his random thoughts and feelings.

Also - planning dates? What if he just enjoys pursuing and courting a woman, but he doesn't really like ME? What if it could be some other friendly, interested woman? All the dates he planned probably were things he wanted to do in the first place.

What if he's just working hard for my approval and validation?

I don't want to mess this up (my best friend is really impressed with this guy and reminds me daily that she's worried I will drive him away), but I'm struggling to find a way to look at the things that I've observed in a positive light.

I think it's human nature to question if something seems "too good to be true."

That's probably why I like the casual dating guy -- he never hesitated to express what he hates/dislike (whereas the gentleman is always positive and happy), and when casual dating guy DOES treat me well (asks me out in advance, pays for dates), I feel like it's really sweet and real.

Mirror, what do you advise - how should I observe the gentleman so my insecurities/past fears don't cloud my judgement?

I'm willing to wait and see if he grows on me... but in the meantime... I feel tormented by my own thoughts.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
Sorry gals - I've made a big boo-boo today. I accidentally deleted the last 50 comments on the blog from the backend of the site. . .and they cannot be retrieved. I've tried everything :-(

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
"What if he just enjoys pursuing and courting a woman, but he doesn't really like ME? What if it could be some other friendly, interested woman? All the dates he planned probably were things he wanted to do in the first place. What if he's just working hard for my approval and validation?"

There are a lot of "what if's" here that may or may not happen. As a result, they're not worth putting any energy into until they do happen. It takes time to get to know someone. The answers reveal themselves in time. It's really too soon to tell, and currently, he's treating you very well. So until that ceases, I wouldn't put much energy into the "what if's" that may or may not happen.

"how should I observe the gentleman so my insecurities/past fears don't cloud my judgement?"

You simply observe his actions. And so far, they've all been good, so I don't see anything to be concerned about. Don't focus on the things that might happen - stay focused on the things that ARE happening ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Vivian. I wish you all the best, but please watch him and don't let your guard down. There was a guy I was interested in and I had always wondered why someone like him was still single. He's nice looking; goes to church, works hard. Weeeelll. Once I got to know him, I found out why he's still single. He's the typical Player/Insecure/Narcissistic guy that MOA has written articles about.

Anonymous said...

"Don't focus on the things that might happen - stay focused on the things that ARE happening ;-)"

Got it. I'm going to write that down on a post-it and stick it on my corkboard!!

He annoys me at times when he's being childish (saying his favorite childhood toy is cooler than my favorite - wtf I want to slap him) -- but when I look at just his actions, he's really the sweetest most romantic guy I've ever dated!

He's even granting me 3 wishes this weekend - IN ADDITION to a planned surprise, because I haven't been feeling too well this week.

I'm really curious where this will lead because I've never dated someone who simultaneously annoys but also impresses me. :-P

I feel really shaky in proceeding with the gentleman, but your advice really helps guide me down a path that I'm not familiar with. Thanks for all your support, mirror.

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous November 5, 2015 at 10:47 AM

Thanks for the wishes! I've had my fair share of insecure womanizers, so believe me...I'm always on the look out for the signs (though sometimes I purposely ignore them if the chemistry is strong).

There ARE nice guys who go to church (one of my nicest guy friends is a devout Christian), but there are bad apples everywhere.

Don't waste any more time thinking about this lame church guy.... NEXT him...and look for a better guy!!

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Hi Vivian (I'm Anon Nov. 5 10:47am). Thank you. Yes, I'm definitely looking out for a better guy.

lioness said...

hey MOA!
so this guy was showing romantic interest in me by inviting me out to dates, meeting up with his friends, spending hours with me (and my friends) on festivals. many time holding my hand, putting his arm around my shoulder, protecting me, taking care of me.
but never went further than that! and this went on for a couple of months! no kiss! nothing!
in between he might not contact me for a week or so. then contact me again, meeting up with all his friends, holding my hand, not leaving me out of sight, taking care of me. to me, this kind of behaving was courtship.
but again, nothing more. no kiss, nothing.
but we'd meet up more and more, in the end every week a couple of times.
so I decided - after a couple of months confusion - to ask him why he would hold my hand, what this situation means to him. he was instantly all nervous, blushed, was shaking with his leg.... (very shy??)
he couldn't even look me in the eyes anymore, his face very red. said, he doesn't want to lose me as a friend, he likes me very much, and the next level might change everything, and he might lose me. thats why he didn't bring it to the next level.
I said, if he thinks that there will be no change now in our 'friendship'? he looked very scared then knowing there might be a change. which of course happened.
he made 7 attempts to contact me over the course of 1,5 weeks before I answered.
he: are you angry with me?
me: I didn't like it to be taken for granted.
he: how did I do this?
me: by showing romantic interest, not admitting it, and thinking I'd still be there for just friends.
he didn't reply anything to that. that was 2 weeks ago. I made no contact to him either.
I can't figure out whats going on here. Can you advise?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lioness,
"I can't figure out whats going on here. Can you advise?"

He doesn't want a relationship.

While he enjoys affectionate companionship, it appears that a committed romantic relationship isn't what he's ultimately seeking, which is why he's not lead the relationship forward :-(

He appears to be seeking companionship only. If you're seeking a committed relationship, then I wouldn't participate in the companionship taking place here anymore. Otherwise, it'll keep you stuck in one place, waiting on this man to move things along (which may never happen), and you could miss opportunities with men who want the same thing you want.

lioness said...

thanks, MOA!
my gut feeling instantly said, its not true what he is saying, when we had the talk. a person wouldn't be behaving like that (bringing flowers, many dates) and not wanting more.. it didn't come across as fake. also the many attempts to contact me after the talk... the vibes I am getting are that he is interested in the next level.. but something is holding him back?
his friends were already asking me what going on with us. I also made clear signs to him that I have further interest.
However, having the talk, I told him that Id take his words, even if they do not match his behaviour.
I am on no contact now, to get my head clean.
Of course wondering, if he'd get his stuff together?
By then I might have been too available, allowing him this 'friendship' for too long. The cut now - I am sure - was not expected by him LOL. I feel empowered anyways. But still like him...

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror (well, and the ladies who are interested in my story with the gentleman!) :-)

I went on a 3rd date with him - and was once again, blown away.

Before we had dinner, he said he wanted to ask me something outside the restaurant. It was dark and rainy at the time... while under his umbrella, he made a speech about how wonderful I was (and a bunch of other stuff that I forgot because I was so confused what was happening!), then presented me with a vase of colorful roses...and asked if I would go out with him.

I said yes, we kissed, we went back in and there was moet champagne. Nice.

Later in the car, I asked him to define "going out" because I thought we were? And he clarified saying, that it meant being exclusive, like boyfriend/girlfriend. He saw long-term potential in me, and actually took down his profile after our first date! :-0 (Oops, mine's still up.)

Kind of shocked me because...I didn't know he asked me to be his girlfriend. For a moment he thought I was going to change my answer -- and his facial expression was heartbreaking.

I don't regret saying yes though, because I'm not dating anyone else (the guy I was casually dating before the gentleman disappeared for close to a month - and is still gone) and I think he's better than any guy I've dated.

I told him just because we were bf/gf, I'm still going to take it slow (in having sex) and he was fine with waiting.

We had a conversation (that I brought up) about how he feels about paying for dates. And he said he was like a dinosaur in that holding doors, waiting until I'm in my building before he drives away, and paying for things -- makes him feel more of a man!! What an awesome guy.

However, I don't really know how to act. I'm still treating him the same as I did before we were exclusive -- being fun, carefree, busy, appreciative, caring.

But mirror, do I still let him initiate everything? Is it safe to ask to see him on a particular day? Or do I have to WAIT for him to suggest meeting me? Can I suggest date ideas of what I want to do? Thing is, he's going to probably pay for everything so it feels demanding to suggest dates.

We're officially bf/gf, but it doesn't quite feel like we're at a level of comfort where I can ask for specific things - e.g. when I want to see him, places to go, gifts.

I'm just so damn confused. Mirror, what do you advise? Thank you so much!

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
"We're officially bf/gf, but it doesn't quite feel like we're at a level of comfort where I can ask for specific things - e.g. when I want to see him, places to go, gifts."

Well, no one can ask for gifts, in any situation, it's simply not proper. As you two get to know each other, all you need to do is share with him the things you like and appreciate during conversations. Share your interested, talk about whatever it is you collect or are passionate about, etc. He'll appreciate getting to know you better and he'll listen closely. He'll file those items away in his mind for later recall when it comes time he'd like to present you with a gift.

Same with when you'd like to see him and where you'd like to go. If there's a show coming you'd like to go see, mention it during dinner sometime and comment that you think it'd be a great show to see. If there's somewhere you'd like to go, same thing. Mention it in conversation sometime and remark that you'd really like to go there someday. The more you share, the more he'll know about you. And if he genuinely cares, he'll shoot to make some of those things happen for you.

If you both had been dating for 3 months or so, it'd be a bit different. As time goes on, you can slowly start making requests, but in this case, this has only been the 3rd date - so I wouldn't risk reversing the tables on him and taking the lead role away from him. Always let him lead because he's the man. And then you have the power of choice - to follow or not.

And remember - the more you share about yourself with him, the better he'll know you. And if he's a man that's genuinely interested, he'll shoot to provide the things for you that make you happy. Because making you happy and providing for you is going to make him happy, and as he said, feel more like a man. He's enjoying that about this relationship, and he's enjoying your femininity as well, so for right now I'd leave all of that in place and go about this in a more subtle suggestive way (sharing things you enjoy with him during conversations, then letting him choose to provide them for you).

Anonymous said...

Mirror,
I'm so so grateful for your guidance - thank you! I'm so out of touch with how to respond to a masculine man that it feels awkward to act in a feminine manner - i.e. being subtle and suggestive.

I get that I should let him lead, but lately I've been really stressed/upset (my mom has been staying at my place, so it will limit my availability) - and he has said that I could call him anytime and he could pick me up so I could get away for a bit.... and that he would actually really like it because it meant that he could see me.

In that case, is it REALLY ok to take him up on the offer - as he said he would like it?

He bought me a really cute tshirt this morning because he wanted to cheer me up. I feel like he's investing in me, so I don't want him to think that I'm just laying back and never making an effort.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
If he made the suggestion, it may not hurt to take him up on the offer - once. It's still really early in the relationship, so I wouldn't make a habit of this just yet. Things are working as they are now, so if it ain't broke - don't fix it ;-)

Anonymous said...

You're right mirror, things do seem to be working! :-)

I expressed some insecurities today, and he reassured me that he was not better off with someone else because I motivate him to achieve his goals, I inspire him to court me in creative and new ways (aww!!), and I just make him so happy.

Does your 8+ date rule before having sex still apply? I find him really sexy/hot, but still don't feel comfortable enough to have sex... but again, we are bf/gf now, and I don't know if it will be a bad thing to drag it out for 2-3 months?

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
"Does your 8+ date rule before having sex still apply?"

I would adhere to that here. He just told you himself that the way you're carrying yourself and the path this is following "inspire[s] him to court me in creative and new ways" and it "motivate[s] him to achieve his goals."

He's enjoying the challenge you're presenting - and he's enjoying achieving the goals required to meet that challenge ;-)

That's a very pure, healthy balance of masculine and feminine energy. He is free to express his masculinity and he enjoys that, and you're free to express your femininity - so embrace it, because that's where your power lies ;-)

Slow and steady wins the race.

lioness said...

hey MOA! and hey vivian! Im also learning from your posts :)

coming back to my update on my post: bigfoot was sighted! after 3,5 weeks of NC.
he sent me some pics of me that he took when on an event. with no comment, just the pics. 3 days later I sent him a quick thank you and he tried to call me that evening (I was in the shower that exact moment - karma?)
but sent him a text later if he called me? no answer for 1,5 days. then a text if I don't want to be friends? (that was yesterday). I didn't answer.
It seems he has just had a knee surgery and still is or was in hospital recently.
My gut feeling is still telling me that he wants more than just being friends.
Can it be that he was used to being chased when showing no further interest? Thats at least how it come across to me. A stubborn pattern of let me see how far I can get behaviour?
I dont react to all this. Feel like I should kick his knee :)
Am I doing the right thing, MOA?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lioness,
"Am I doing the right thing, MOA?"

Absolutely. This is a disappearing man we're talking about here, correct? And now - he's in need. He's found himself in the hospital and most likely, is experiencing a bit of loneliness. If this man has indeed disappeared in the past, chances are he's simply seeking some attention right now due to the situation he's found himself in and once he's no longer in that situation and no longer has that "need" - he'll disappear again.

And if this is how he approaches dating, swooping in and out of the lives of women at will, then yea - he's probably used to being chased (once he disappears).

"My gut feeling is still telling me that he wants more than just being friends."

That may be so - but what does "more" represent for him? Does it represent a committed relationship, or just some physical interaction and sex? He may indeed want more right now, but that "more" might only be some sex. So just be mindful to not misinterpret interest on his part as a desire for "commitment."

"A stubborn pattern of let me see how far I can get behaviour?"

This could be true - it's how insecure men act. They seek attention and reassurance through "pranks" much like a child. And once they actually get your attention again. . .let the games begin. They're gone. They disappear and fall off the radar and now it's a game of cat and mouse - chase. Only it's the woman whose expected to chase them down. This is the part I'll never understand. Why on earth is a grown man comfortable with taking on the feminine submissive role, while forcing the woman into the masculine lead role?

It used to be, back in the day, the woman's role to play "hard to get." Men understood this and even expected it and willingly participated in it and considered it fun (the thrill of the chase). But modern men have completely turned that around and now they're the ones taking on that feminine role. And when the woman accepts the masculine role and pursues. . .they run scared LOL.

Don't chase - ever. It's simply not a woman's place to take the lead masculine role, and it rarely ever ends well when she does.

lioness said...

thanks for advice! I shall see if he steps up and asks for a talk.

and no, I will not chase. no way. Id rather get 17 cats instantly :)
I did in the past though, not knowing I did. and all ended as you described it: in a disaster.

bigfoot watch is somehow also fun, I admit. this one now will pop up again, I am sure LOL

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror!

So, the gentleman is still doing all the right things:
- we talk daily (he's very consistent about replying me while he works out in the morning)
- he has told his friends about me (they all want to meet me)
- he invited me to his company's Christmas party
- he offers to drive me when he thinks I might need a ride (I have only taken this up once)
- he asked me a week ago if I wanted to spend new year's eve with him (I love guys who plan in advance!!!). He then gave me 4 options: 1 at a fancy hotel event, 1 at a party venue, and 2 that would be overnight trips. All of them would cost $100+. I chose the party because I didn't want to stay in the same room on the overnight trip. Not sure I'm ready.
- he still opens doors
- he still pays for everything
- almost every time I've seen him, he has given me something. 2 dates ago, he gave me a gorgeous cashmere scarf which he intended as a Christmas gift, but I have no idea why he gave it to me that day lol.
- he is generally booking me a week in advance to go on dates with me

With that said, I'm still going to be in observation mode for the next 3 months to make a decision whether to continue with him or not.

I like that he proves through action that he's interested and sees a future with me - but at the same time, I'm aware things could become less sweet/romantic as you settle into a comfortable routine with someone.

I've already noticed he doesn't always thank me when I give him things (like snacks). Not a dealbreaker, but just something to file away to help with my decision.

But my question for you mirror is, his birthday is coming up in 2 weeks. And there's also Christmas. What's an appropriate budget to spend on gifts for him? We've been on 6 dates so far, and have been dating for a month.

I've got some really good thoughtful ideas, but they are pretty inexpensive (one is a special butter that I don't think he has tried - costs less than $10).

He has spent so much on me so far, that I feel like I need to match it (I think the cashmere scarf he got me was about $100)... but I'm not as wealthy as he is.

He actually likes it that I'm so frugal because it reminds him of how his family was when he was a child. Should I start with an inexpensive gift - and gradually over the course of year start spending more?

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Hi lioness!

Good for you for not reacting. ;-)

I agree with mirror, he's a feeling a bit lonely (and insecure) after being in the hospital recently.

This is not a good time to be talking to him, because it's very possible that he just wants a woman to care and feed him attention when he's in a vulnerable state.

Then when he recovers, he'll likely revert back to his old patterns.

Let him chase YOU! Though if you ask me, if a man disappears at all.... the possibility of developing something genuine and lasting is highly unlikely. I'm basing this on my expertise in dating insecure, emotionally unavailable jerks, lol.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
"Should I start with an inexpensive gift - and gradually over the course of year start spending more?"

I'm not sure what your financial situation is, but if at all possible, based on how he's treated you, I believe a $100 gift would be appropriate. If that's too pricey, move towards $50 - $75. And consider a keepsake gift of some sort. Engraved cuff links or men's name tag bracelet. There are tons of designers making men's jewelry in steel these days. Not only does it take a beating (in the gym, etc.) but it's affordable and long lasting. Or maybe a pair of crystal whiskey glasses with whiskey stones, or a wine tasting flight board, or a pair of crystal wine glasses with his initials engraved, or an engraved sterling silver ring, or maybe a very nice shave box set with a classic razor, or an engraved decanter. . .something along those lines that's a thoughtful gentleman's gift, but that will also stick around so that every time he sees it, he thinks of you ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for your gift giving advice, mirror. $50-75 is closer to my budget at this point (and also comfort level).

I'm starting to like and miss him more (as I had predicted earlier). And I know this is mainly due to the physical escalation (haven't had sex yet, but it is imminent).

Problem is, my insecurities are growing. Whereas before I was observant and nonchalant - I now am starting to *want* him more... want him to reassure me daily that he likes/adores me... want him to keep expressing that he wants to see me...

He did say if I was unhappy, I should tell him so he could fix it right away... but I can't even articulate *what* he needs to do to make me feel more secure and happy.

It just seems so needy to tell him I need more reassurance, but he's my boyfriend so shouldn't I be comfortable sharing this?

Or is it too soon - and I should remain cool and carefree? For reference: we've been dating for 1.5 months, had 6 proper dates so far, and had 10 face-to-face meetings.

Heck, maybe he's feeling insecure about me and pulling back a bit - and I am simply sensing it.

I'm constantly fighting the urge to break up.... so I don't have to deal with any of these issues. And actually, dating a jerk again would be more predictable and comforting. *sigh*

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Oh, just to clarify: we've seen each other 10 times, but 6 of those meetings were dates, and 4 of them were just meeting up spontaneously for 1-3 hours (e.g. a Netflix and cuddle night).

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivan,
"He did say if I was unhappy, I should tell him so he could fix it right away... but I can't even articulate *what* he needs to do to make me feel more secure and happy."

I don't think at this point, he can do much more than he's already doing to help you with that unfortunately. When things are going really well and you're feeling this way, it indicates that the issue is within yourself, and not about something the man is doing or isn't doing, because in this case he's doing everything right.

These are insecurities that are beginning to surface. Get and maintain control of them and you'll feel better. Talk yourself through those feelings when they surface, and reassure YOURSELF that all is well and that these feelings are simply insecurities. At this point I would not ask for that from him, because you don't want to overwhelm him with too much "heavy" stuff yet - it's still very early.

"he's my boyfriend so shouldn't I be comfortable sharing this?"

Sure - but do you REALLY want to tell him that you're insecure? Do you really want to have to admit that just yet, ya' know? Because if you share this, you'll have to acknowledge that it's you, and not him, and that he's doing everything right yet you still feel this way. Right now he has a very solid impression of you. . .and I'm not sure I would voluntarily taint that right now by discussing insecurities.

If I were you, I'd attempt to work through these feelings on my own right now, versus handing them off to him and making him feel obliged to deal with them. You can do this, trust me. Talk yourself through them until they pass ;-)

Fire & Water said...

HI Vivian,
I'm so glad you popped up again here - I read your earlier stories and got to feel like I know you, so it was great to know you are still about and doing well! Forgive me, but I am going to shoot in the dark here...when I read what you said above, it occurred to me that you were rocking this until more physical things came into play. Is it possible that this is your gut/self telling you to take it slower physically with a guy you've only known for 6 weeks? As wonderful as he is, it still is a pretty short time to truly know someone and maybe it's your self's way of telling yourself to just not hurry. Just a thought for you to consider...or jettison :)
Best wishes to you with this situation and with life in general!
Fire&Water

Anonymous said...

Mirror, thanks for believing that I can get through my insecurities, even when I feel an overwhelming urge to give up.

My best friend thinks it's rewarding to be in a relationship, but I just find it exhausting (beyond the exciting honeymoon period). Feels like so much effort - for what? A bit of attention, love, companionship?

I get attention, excitement, companionship, and compliments when I'm actively dating - much more of it (well from multiple men).

If a relationship cannot provide me the same level of benefits as when I'm casually dating, then what is the point? An article I once read said a relationship is an opportunity to love someone. Perhaps I'm just a selfish lover.

I don't really know what to do. Break up, travel, and stay single forever? It's not the answer, I know. Just thinking out loud.

Sometimes I think the disappearing men go through a similar thought process, and hurt loving, good women who are doing everything right.

I hope that in my weakest moment when I'm about to act on these insecurities, I remember the strength you have - and choose to act positively and confidently...

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Hi Fire&Water,

Thanks for letting me know you read my stories and your thoughts on my situation!

It gives me a warm feeling to know others are here reading (and possibly benefitting?) from what comes out of my crazy head.

I will continue to post any major updates in this thread regarding my relationship with the gentleman, so you can find me here. :)

"Is it possible that this is your gut/self telling you to take it slower physically with a guy you've only known for 6 weeks?"

I thought about this, but I was just as crazy insecure when I had sex with an ex-bf after 4 months.

Time does not seem to the be issue (as long as it's not within the first month). I'm just naturally insecure - and whether I have sex with a guy at 2 months, 4 months, or even a year - does not really change that.

I *think* that it's my unreasonable fantasies of having a guy always adore, compliment, love me, and make me the center of his life. That's when I feel secure.

Sadly, mirror's article on insecure men describes me almost to a tee.

Anything short of that - like what is going on with the gentleman right now who I feel is not as enthusiastic lately - makes me feel he's reconsidering being with someone more accomplished, mature, socially connected, and committed.

This is something I need to figure out in my journey. Either I improve and become a more loving person - or I snap and just avoid relationships forever.

Wish you all the best in your dating journey as well and hope that you are happy! Let me know more about your latest stories if you'd like (it can be hard to keep with all the posts on here!).

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
You just touched on something in your comment to Fire&Water that I believe is crucial to understand. You said, "Sadly, mirror's article on insecure men describes me almost to a tee."

We know where the issue lies - therefore, managing it is possible ;-)

Bear with me here a moment, some of what I'm about to say might sting, but my intention is to help, not to hurt. And sometimes we have to look so deep that it hurts. But we come out the other side better for it :-)

It's a fact that no relationship maintains the passion and excitement that comes in the early stages. That's because love itself has different stages. It moves from passion when we're young, to partnership, to companionship in old age. So that's important to understand.

In your case, because of these insecurities that surface, they're causing you to be more emotionally "needy" than average, for lack of a better word. This is why you tend to be a serial dater, and this is why you're considering returning back to that lifestyle right now ;-) You're chasing that "high" that only comes in the early stages, because that "high" type of attention is what fulfills those needs. And when you're dating, you're getting those needs fulfilled - even surpassed - by the attention of multiple men. As you've read in the insecure man article here, insecure individuals need a lot of attention to make themselves feel good about themselves.

Problem is, it's not healthy to go through life like that. It's not healthy to project those hefty needs onto others. Instead, it's wise to confront those issues and deal with them head on, yourself (versus projecting them onto others to fulfill).

So I challenge you to do that dear ;-)

I challenge you to confront your insecurities head on, and do the work of learning to manage them. I've been insecure myself. I imagine there's probably not one woman on the planet who hasn't been. I went through this in my youth for quite some time, and it wasn't until I stopped and acknowledged the issues that I became stronger, and more confident in myself. To the point that I've done a complete 180 at this stage in life. (I'm sure some consider my confidence now to be arrogance, but hey, that's okay because I'm not hurting anyone. . .and I'm feeling great LOL.)

If you address these issues dear, you'll feel great too.

You'll be able to relax in your own skin. You won't need the attention of others to make you feel secure or good about yourself. You'll stand strong and you'll make wise decisions for yourself that you feel good about. You won't question everyone and every little thing that they do. You won't feel anxious, you won't suffer from confusion, and you will find what they call peace of mind and contentment. . .within yourself. And once you find that solid ground to stand on, you'll feel the urge to settle a bit more.

Does that make sense?

In otherwords, you won't need to date multiple men or speak to multiple men or receive attention from multiple men. . .because you're at peace with yourself. You won't need to seek your happiness from others, because you will find that within yourself.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"If a relationship cannot provide me the same level of benefits as when I'm casually dating, then what is the point?"

Be careful with this type of thinking because it will lead you to "feed the beast" rather than "feed your soul." The beast being our ego. If you choose to face your insecurities on your own and learn how to manage them, and instead you choose to continue to chase the high and "feed the beast" - in the end, you'll still feel "empty" inside. Because true happiness doesn't lie within our egos, it lies within ourselves - our souls, and our very being. So don't feed the beast, feed yourself and your soul.

Chasing the high and feeding insecurities (versus learning how to manage them), will place you into a situation where your life is a cycle that's on repeat. You meet someone, you get those needs from your insecurities fed, and then you place that individual to the side once you've received what you need from them, and then you move onto the next.

Rinse - and repeat.

But as I've stated, in the end, you're still left feeling "empty" inside. All that "feeding" hasn't really changed or solved anything. In fact, it's only created an endless cycle of feeding that results in you never feeling quite fulfilled. And before you know it, the need to be fulfilled becomes a full time job because you always need a new host. And even after you feed, it's only a matter of time before the feeling of being unfulfilled sets in again. And so the cycle continues.

You seem to already be aware of much of what I'm saying here. So now the question becomes - what are you going to do about it? What are you doing to help yourself, or what are you going to do to help yourself? Because we already know that this endless loop, this repetitive cycle, can't go on forever. And we already know that even after years and years of it, in the end the problem still exists. The feelings of unfilfillment still exist. So what will you do to help curb yourself of that so that you may find peace and fulfillment some day? Because you can't rely on others for that forever.

I'm not expecting answers for those questions, I'm simply providing some food for thought at this point. And if any of this stung, my apologies dear. But as you know, I'm not one to gloss over things LOL. And I'm a big advocate of "inner work" in order to find happiness and a healthy relationship. I believe the "inner" is crucial to what is experienced on the outside. At least that's what I've learned in my own inner work on myself. Taking a good hard look at ourselves in the mirror is indeed truly painful. But as I stated earlier, you come out the other side all the better for it, and it's truly worth the investment and any discomfort experienced. And that's all I'm trying to do here for you - walk you down the same path that I, myself, have been down before.

Because it's the path that I found my happiness on, and I'd like to see that happen for you as well ;-)

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

So just give this all some thought. Let it roll around in your head for a while. Let your emotions settle a bit, give yourself a break, and take it in. And most importantly, rather than focus on the men in your life and what they can provide for you - focus on what YOU can do for YOURSELF and what you can provide for yourself. I wouldn't suggest that you cease dating this man. He's done nothing wrong and he's treating you very well and he is capable of making you happy, he's already proved this - once you're happy with yourself. And I suspect that if you cease dating this man, in about 3 months you'll be suffering regrets and ringing his phone, seeking from him what he's provided you already - all over again (the cycle will continue).

Try to stay the course here dear, and while doing so, attempt to develop healthy ways for you to manage your insecurities, so that you're actually able to enjoy the secure relationship and safe haven that this man is providing, versus hungering to continually feed the beast.

Kick the beast to the curb - and instead embrace YOURSELF, and all that this man has to offer you ;-)

Lottie said...

Ms Mirror.

Very wise words indeed.

Vivian, I too have been following your story.

I have faced my demons [I had to face the issues that hurt the most] - As Ms Mirror says it does hurt, but I don't know.....something magical happens after this. It's rather simplistic but I can't think of another way to describe it. Almost as if you smile from inside without having a reason too.

That never was the case before!

I wish you the best on your journey.
Lottie x

Fie & Water said...

@Vivian,
Thank you so much for your wishes - I'm always happy for a little positive energy coming my way :) At the moment, there are no suitors of particular interest and I'm good with that. (My story starts around February-ish and is under the When, Why, How To Use No Contact post. It concerned a fellow named A, with whom I am currently civil when I randomly run into him. The end. Lol. There were definitely questions you asked and elements of your story that resonated with me and were helpful, so thank you for that, as well.
Regarding the confidence and insecurity, what Mirror has said is spot on and I wanted to add this: whether you decide, at the end of the finding-confidence road, that you are happier in a relationship or happier single is extraneous to working through your insecurities. Finding your inner confidence is one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself. I hope you decide to pursue it, because it will make as much or more difference to your overall happiness in life than a relationship. It is challenging and, as Lottie said, sometimes painful, but it is so WORTH IT. If you start working on it and get stuck anywhere, don't hesitate to reach out here. I'm happy to share my $.02 if and when it's worth that amount :), as are many other wise and eloquent ladies here. Good luck...and remember: you. Can. Do this. Hugs!
-F & W

Anonymous said...

Mirror,

What you wrote did sting a bit, but I know that you have a heart of gold and want nothing but happiness and a loving relationship for all the ladies here in the community. :-) Thank you always for your loving, supportive energy.

I'm going to let your words sink in deeper and fight my way onto the right path.

(Sorry this will be a bit of a long update, but I really need to share this and get it off my chest.)

The past week (and I expect this week as well) has been really rough, not just due to my own insecurities -- but I have learned that the gentleman has been acting differently due to HIS own insecurities, and he has been lying about a few things.

Up until this point, based on what I've written here, I'm sure you and other ladies see him as a fairly solid man who's stable, consistent, and treats me well.

He still does treat me well, but I'm starting to see him unravel (emotionally).

His first lie: last week he told me he didn't know why he felt down for the past couple of days. (I had felt insecure before he revealed this, so I must have been picking up on his energies.)

The truth: on our last date, in a semi-drunken state, he said that he felt down because he felt neglected... he doesn't know why we don't talk on the phone (I later told him I don't like to)...he feels that I take so long to reply him when he tries to get back to me almost right away (this isn't true, but whatever)... that he wants to see me more often but is worried about pressuring me... that he felt like I was stringing him along until I found someone else.

Wow.

On Saturday evening when I went over to his place to cuddle, he showed me a near empty bottle of vodka (which he bought on Friday when we got back from the club), and said he had been drinking all day. I asked, "Why?" He replied, "I don't know." Then I asked, "Are you sad?" He said, "Not anymore now that you're here."

Second lie: on a previous date, I asked why didn't he french kiss me (he only kissed me using lips and not much tongue). When I showed him what I liked, he was surprised and said he never did it.

Truth: on a different date (this past weekend), he said that he didn't want to french kiss me so soon because he didn't want to rush me sexually (as I guess frenching is more intimate and a turn on).

There's also a third lie, but it's not as important.

cont...

Anonymous said...

cont:

He's acting weird again, because I suspect he's insecure/needy. In today's message, he asked if it was a bad thing that even though he saw me on Friday and Saturday, that he was already planning when he could see me next.

I reply, of course not I want to see him too!

Usually he says "good night / sweet dreams" to me every night before he goes to bed (we do not chat, we just leave each other texts) - but last week he stopped saying it for 1 day, and then past 2 days (including tonight) he also hasn't said it.

I liked him because he was CONSISTENT and not like all the other jerks I dated. Now he's turning into an inconsistent mess.

It makes me so unhappy because his inconsistency triggers my insecurities. I already know this is something I need to work on managing, but it's really challenging.

It hasn't even been 2 months yet and I'm already seeing him go crazy. Usually I don't see this kind of change until at least 3-4 months in!

I need to emphasize - my behavior and words have NOT changed. Even though I've expressed so many of my insecurities here - I have not let it affect my actions.

I still let him initiate everything. I don't chase. I don't talk too much about the future (he does though). I let him plan dates. I let him message me after our dates. I act feminine and show my appreciation and thank him every time he takes me out and gets me gifts.

I am the same gal he met on the first date. The same. I have not changed.

Mirror...perhaps I have taken your advice a bit too far and have been coming across as carefree but too aloof/distant, so it has been causing him to feel insecure.

I still accept him for who he is, but right now, I'm very concerned about his insecurities because - I kind of think it's possible that not saying good night to me is a way of him TESTING me to see if I actually noticed and cared.

I hope not, because I thought he was more mature than that.

That's all for now..... hopefully I can see him within the next few days to sort it out.

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Thanks so much Lottie, appreciate your words of support! :) I'm hopeful and optimistic about reaching that state of quiet confidence like you have.

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Fire&Water,

Thank you for all the love and support. Your comment really brought a huge smile to my face. We don't really know each other yet you are here cheering me on - thank you for that *hugs back*.

"Finding your inner confidence is one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself. I hope you decide to pursue it, because it will make as much or more difference to your overall happiness in life than a relationship."

*nods* I get that. I've started to look within and realize that I'm the only person who will walk down this journey in life with myself. Sure sometimes family will be by my side, sometimes it will be a bf, but the one constant is *me*... the inner confidence/happiness I do find will stay with me for life, so it is worth putting the effort.

The question I have is - how does one FIND this inner confidence? I mean, concrete things I can do. Meditate? Write? Just live life? I'd love to know where to start if you have any suggestions that has helped you. :)

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
Just take a deep breath - and try to relax :-)

You're both navigating your way through something that's feeling very "real" to each of you, and it's causing insecurities to surface in both of you apparently. This is all very natural though. Human are - human. We're not perfect, otherwise we'd be Gods.

And while he's not confessed everything to you, I don't consider what he has confessed to be "lies" really. To me, a lie is keeping something from someone that would hurt them. He's not doing this to hurt you. In fact, he's keeping these things from you so as to NOT hurt you. He's trying to deal with his "stuff" on his own, which is wise. Because when you start laying your stuff onto other people for them to deal with, you can make them feel burdened and exhausted by it.

However, now that he's informed you of how he's feeling - try to think of how you can maybe meet him half way on some of that. After all, that's what a relationship is about. Two people attempting to make the other happy, making sacrifices along the way if need be, to support and provide one another in a manner that fulfills their needs.

He apparently needs some phone calls from time to time to feel secure. This is understandable. And I realize you don't like talking on the phone. Understandable as well. However, speaking say - twice a week for 30 minutes wouldn't kill anybody here. Yes, it'd be a small sacrifice on your part to participate in something you don't enjoy, however, in return he will participate in something he doesn't enjoy for YOU. At least that's how it should work anyway.

So you fulfill his needs and in exchange, you get one of your own needs fulfilled ;-)

Not sure about the "taking too long to respond" thing because you're saying that actually doesn't happen. But either way, what that tells you is that he feels you're not making him a priority. These items are actually things most women complain about, not men LOL. So maybe you do respond right away, but still he's feeling like he might not be a priority right now.

In reality however, having those 2 brief phone calls a week might actually make that feeling go away, thus killing two birds with one stone here. If he's seeing you set aside specific amounts of time to focus on only him for 30 minutes twice a week, then chances are if you take a while to respond to a text. . .he might not even notice that anymore. Because you're now making him a priority in other ways.

And if he wants to see you more, that's easy to rectify as well. Truthfully, all of these items can easily be repaired with just a few small actions. He's really not asking for much here. So if you only see each other on weekends, why not take the relationship to the next level a bit and spend an evening during the week together?

And regarding the kissing, honestly, that's him being very respectful of you. He's placing your needs before his own. He's not getting too deep because he doesn't want you to feel pressured. Most women find themselves having to fend complete strangers off of them on a first or second date. They don't encounter too many men who's problem is that of being too respectful LOL ;-)

"last week he stopped saying it for 1 day, and then past 2 days (including tonight) he also hasn't said it. . .I liked him because he was CONSISTENT and not like all the other jerks I dated. Now he's turning into an inconsistent mess."

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

I think at this point, it'd be safe to tell him this. He's "sharing" with you, so HE is the one that opened these topics up for discussion (a bit). So I'd say it's probably safe to share one of your needs with him. When discussion opens up this topic again, I'd share that you're going to make time for phone calls, you're open to spending time during the week together now, and in return, you'd like for the consistency that you've seen in the past to return. Explain to him that you really appreciate that about him, and that it's one of the things that makes him very special to you as a man. My guess is he'd be thrilled to receive that type of acknowledgment and validation as a man. To know that he's doing something right that makes him stand out above the rest :-) And I'd also explain that when he behave's inconsistent, it triggers your insecurities. And then when you're triggered, he gets triggered, etc. - which is why a few small things need to change. So that this doesn't spiral out of control for both of you.

All these "lies" he's told you (which really aren't lies to me) basically signal that he's longing for more of your attention, and to be a bit more of a priority to you. I don't think he's asking for much. It amounts to a few extra hours of your time a week (between 2 half hour phone calls and a couple hours one evening). And if you want a relationship, these things are the "work" that is required to maintain one. Sacrifice and compromise come with the territory, so this isn't anything unusual.

Suggest these things on your next date with him - and I bet he'll feel like a million bucks to see your efforts, and in turn, he'll work hard to make you feel the same as well ;-)

Fire & Water said...

@ Vivian
Pt 1
Aww...I'm so glad I made you smile & you're very welcome :)
Re this : "The question I have is - how does one FIND this inner confidence? I mean, concrete things I can do. Meditate? Write? Just live life? I'd love to know where to start if you have any suggestions that has helped you. :)"

Well, I can tell you about me and the way I see things and maybe it'll give you a start or some ideas :)
I think the first step (and this might be a series of first steps) is to figure out what things bother you about yourself. Where are your insecurities? From there, you have two directions to go. 1) Some you will be able to improve and you can choose to do so or not (if not, see #2). 2)Others you will simply have to accept, and there are a couple ways of looking at things that have helped me get comfortable with those.
First: things that you can choose to improve. This might include being smart, being cultured, being financially secure. Generally, those are things you can do something about. In my case, one hang-up for me is that I never thought I was pretty. It wasn't until I got into my thirties that I finally was able to see that I'm quite attractive. One thing that helped me in that respect was working out. It was great in terms of fitness and in building some muscle, but more importantly, it got me comfortable with how my body looks, and I was able to see it look better than before and I liked that. And then, one day I looked at myself in the mirror and without really being conscious of it, my first thought was "that's hot". And then shock lol. Because I realized I was thinking about myself totally differently. The second thing that helped was that I re-discovered that I enjoy fashion a lot. I started paying more attention to my clothes and making sure I dressed appropriately for my body, but also in things that I really love and think are beautiful. Another thing I do which may sound silly is that periodically, I get dolled up and take a bunch of selfies JUST for myself. I delete all the bad ones and keep only the ones I like. I keep them to remind me that I AM that pretty, so if I find myself getting stuck on the idea of not being pretty, I can go back and see the proof that I am. The idea of "that's what I ook like, that beautiful picture" stays in my head. It's weird, but it works lol. And PS I will totally go crazy with them - I'll try to make it like a photoshoot, e.g. I'll pretend I'm Marguerite in Faust's Jewel Song and wear all kinds of bling and try to feel that energy and create those poses...just silly and fun, like playing dress-up but being ME. And lastly, in getting to really know and be comfortable with what I look like, I realized the features of myself that I think are special...like I really love my smile and I have great legs :) So, again, when I feel myself getting worried, I'll remind myself "yeah, but I have fabulous legs". It's like me supporting me and saying what I need to hear at that moment. So, the Cliff Notes version of this piece is: find the things that make you insecure and be creative about finding ways to make them better, more like you want, when that's possible.

Fire & Water said...

Pt 2
As an addendum to this: a lot of times, we're really good at criticizing ourselves, and sometimes we need that kick in the butt. But, I think we tend to be less good about also praising ourselves. Like, how many times, have you said " "Awesome job, self - that was a really good decision". Or "Self, you're so creative!" Or, "Self, that was a very thoughtful thing to do. Nice job!". Just kind of this little internal dialogue of "atta-girls" when you deserve one :), so that you remind yourself of all your good qualities. If you tend to forget them a lot (easily done :)), write a list.
Second, we get to stuff you can't do much about. And there are 2 paths with that one. One is to work on seeing the flip side. The other is to recognize that "into every life, a little rain must fall" :) and sometimes, a few things are just going to suck. They are what they are. And you just sort of recognize that this is how it is right now and that it's the way it needs to be for whatever reason. So, examples: on seeing the flip side/good side -I'm going to back to physical things again (sorry :))...but I have a very small cup size. I think it started to bother me because I was teased about it in grade school. It was kind of a sore spot with me, until I started envisioning myself with a much larger chest. And I realized that sitting trot would be horrendously uncomfortable (I ride horses). It's a small, silly benefit, but it is one GREAT thing about being small :) There are others too. So that's what I tried to do - see if there was a flip side, a silver lining, some benefits to what I have, as opposed to focusing on what I didn't.

Fire & Water said...

Pt 3
On being ok with "it is what it is": it took me a long time to really get on my feet financially, so there are ways where I have a lot less "stuff" accomplished than people my age and even than a number of people younger than me. There are moments when I used to get panicked-embarrassed badly by it. But, I'm on a good path now, and I have goals and I'm working toward them. And the only person who has to know where I'm going and that I'm getting there is me. And I do. That's the getting comfortable part. I think that came from questioning myself and really looking at the truth from a different angle. I made a choice or two that, in hindsight, wasn't very smart, but were things I wanted to do/try. For example, I wanted to try a job that was my passion. I paid a certain price for it. It couldn't reward me financially and it stressed me out to the point that I became very ill because I put so much effort into it. I learned something from that experience and now, I'm making different choices because I learned about how I react when I'm in that kind of situation. When I look back at it, I know I needed to make that choice, I needed to try it. That choice was very "me". Knowing what I know now, I might not make that decision again, but with what I knew THEN, I'm sure I would have made the same choice if I were presented with the same circumstances again. So, I own the choice, the cost that came with it and the wisdom I gained from it. And it's made part of who I am. Because I realized that making that choice at that time was important to me, I can't fault myself for either the choice or the consequences. That's what I did and it is what is. Because I'm comfortable with all that, I now feel that if someone wants to judge me for that choice, it's their problem for not taking the time to accurately understand me. So, people can no longer make me feel badly about the choice, or the consequences.
There are a couple of premises I've tried to keep in mind. One is encapsulated in Eleanor Roosevelt's wonderful quote "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent". This is why all this works. When you feel insecure about something, it's a way of giving consent to someone to make you feel badly about yourself, because at heart, some part of you agrees. When you address these insecurities yourself, you revoke that consent, because you no longer agree. And second, Jewel has a great phrase from her song Barcelona that I keep in mind: 'I hold myself hostage in the mirror", which is my mental sticky note for making sure I see myself in a truthful, but accurate way...to not let myself escape with just seeing the dark side, but to keep looking at the issue until I can see it in a balanced way, the FULL truth, the part that includes the good side too. All this takes work, it's ant easy and you can stuck a number of times. But, if you keep fighting through, you get to a point where you really love YOU, love exactly who you are right now (even if you know you're going to be even better in the future). You can see your mistakes and you can kick yourself in the butt to do better, without beating yourself to a pulp over it. You see your foibles and you laugh at them and enjoy that quirkiness. You see your strengths and revel in them and make good use of them. Embracing the balanced truth of you makes you so strong, and so happy..it's insane :) ....I hope this freaking encyclopedia is helpful...if indeed you managed to get all the way through it (Brava). Hugs!
F & W

Lottie said...

@ F & W - I love your effort and tenacity in learning about yourself and building your self confidence. It is really endearing. Thanks for sharing. x

I smiled at your comment about the 'selfies' - I do that too! haha. And why not! You are never too old.

@ Vivian - Thank you. I must admit your story is interesting...and although I am keen to see how things pan out with this gentleman...I am equally intrigued to learn more about your inner journey too.

Ms Mirror is great at saying things and can really hit the nail on the head. It does take time to sink in and it can sting. Let it sink in. When you are ready to absorb the advice fully you will know. Who knows what will happen from there...

I had to go back to my past and heal the wounds that happened in my childhood for me to grow as an individual. That was painful...I didn't even even realise that it was this hurt that had got me into such a pickle in my adult years!

The things I had told myself - like I was not worthy, to ignore my passions in life.."to stop being so Silly and just conform'....had all been generated through the hurt that was caused in my childhood.

Well that got me far didn't it! Although financially ok ...I was really so far removed from my true self. Oh and single.

But after healing that pain - and you can heal, I became more aware of who I am. I learnt about my inner being. I was an OK person. It was like things that were 'stuck'....no longer felt stuck.
That for me is where I learnt of my true self confidence. The place I go to when I need to draw on strength.

So what do I do now: Well I certainly do not allow any thoughts of being unworthy enter my head. Even then when they do.....and our minds can chat the most amount of rubbish sometimes, I just observe them and understand that they have no influence on me.

As for "not being silly & conforming" - Well I allow myself to be silly - I don't think I have laughed and smiled more and feel better for it. I also do the things that have been calling me my entire life...and if that means not conforming, well so be it.

It is not as drastic as it all sounds - the changes were more internal.
So I am writing a new chapter in my life - I really can't tell you what the pages will hold for me.

But Ms Mirror - there are 2 sayings that always stick in my head that I learnt from.
"If you keep doing what you are doing, you will end up where you are going"
"The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again...and expecting different results"

F & W - I too do not feel the need to tell people where I am going or what I want to do.

It is so lovely to be able to share and learn. To think I used to come on here talking about men!! lol

My very Best Wishes to you.
Lottie x

Fire & Water said...

@ Lottie:
" @ F & W - I love your effort and tenacity in learning about yourself and building your self confidence. It is really endearing. Thanks for sharing. x

I smiled at your comment about the 'selfies' - I do that too! haha. And why not! You are never too old"

Awwwwww thank you so much for your kind and sweet words! I LOVE that you do selfies too!! Yay! Maybe we can start an epidemic of women taking awesome selfes for positive personal reinforcement ;)

And thank you for sharing your story and perspective here too; that's just what I was hoping would happen. It will give Vivian couple different viewpoints to play with.

"It is so lovely to be able to share and learn. To think I used to come on here talking about men!! lol"
OMG YES!! lol :)

Very best wishes right back to you! And Happiest of Holidays as well :)
F & W

Anonymous said...

Happy New Year everyone. Just thought I'd share this. There's this young woman I know (she's 30). she has a young son (so, obviously, she's been intimate with someone) but she says she's NEVER BEEN ON A DATE. How sad is that? Unfortunately, this seems to be the RULE nowadays--not the EXCEPTION. Ladies, get that man to take you to DINNER.

Anonymous said...

Hello ... Happy New Year to Mirror and All :-)
This is a rather light and fun inquiry on feminine energy and attire.

I have a first date tomorrow ... a hockey game. Originally it was dinner & then he mentioned he had game if I wanted to go (instead). I am a girly girl and pretty good at expressing the feminine energy Miss Mirror encourages. I had the perfect dinner date outfit planned and almost said no to the game. However I said yes to try something new (on a date), be fun, and step a little outside my comfort zone.

Should I wear a hockey jersey (and girl it up as much as possible with hair and make up) or wear something sexy but game appropriate (e.g., skinny jeans & pretty top)? Also please share any other first date sporting event advice you like!

Note-Most girls wear hockey jerseys to the games here. Some look masculine but others look cute.

Thanks!
Chloe

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Chloe,
"Should I wear a hockey jersey (and girl it up as much as possible with hair and make up) or wear something sexy but game appropriate (e.g., skinny jeans & pretty top)?"

Hmm, if you're attending dinner first, I'd dress as you planned and then take the sport jersey with me, and slip it over top of my dinner outfit once you reach the game.

If you're not attending dinner first, I'd dress as I planned - meet him, and do the same thing, take the jersey with me and slip it on once we're at the game.

That way - his first impression is "sexy" - but later he also gets a glimpse of your fun, casual, sporty side as well ;-)

Anonymous said...

(Vivian - part 1)

Hi mirror (and Fire&Water and anyone else following my story), I badly need perspective. :-(

I'm so confused, lost I'm not even sure if I ended up in an abusive situation.

(Btw, Fire&Water I very much appreciate you sharing more about you and what you do to help with your own insecurities. I too have the same insecurities with having a small cup size.)

My brother and best friend agree I should have broken up with gentleman already, but perhaps it's the sex that is clouding my judgement (even though it was bad).

So much has happened within the past 1-2 months:
- he planned a big Christmas surprise for me (so touched)
- he told me he loved me (but I didn't at the time - which made him hurt, upset)
- on NYE he went all out and paid $1500 to upgrade our hotel room to a suite. He wanted to make everything perfect. He ended up getting really drunk, and falling on top of me when he tried to carry me to bed. This left a scar on my back (I hit a hard surface).
- he confessed he had a drinking problem, that after meeting me had actually drank less
- after new year's, we went to the same spot where he asked me to be his gf in November, and said he would quit drinking completely (he has kept his word)

The good:
- he texts me right when he goes home and before he goes to bed (I guess every good bf does)
- he caters to me - he gets extra takeout incase I'm hungry, asks what I want to eat, whether I want to go out to a restaurant
- he rearranges his schedule so we can do things together
- he likes cooking for me (he also doesn't mean cleaning)
- he's committed to me - and has stopped talking to other girls
- he's very supportive of my goals
- he opens all doors
- he pays for everything (we're planning to go on our first vacay in May, and I am fairly sure he will cover it all)
- he's someone who's willing to talk. He *likes* relationship talk.
- he lets me try his protein powder, and he knows I have digestive issues so he buys me probiotics & kefir milk to try
- he would come drive me from anywhere as long as I called him

Now the problems:
- since the beginning, I felt something "missing"...I still don't know what
- he started giving me pissed off/angry looks that hurt me - which causes me to shut down/disconnect. He later explained it was because he was tired, but it still hurts me when he does it
- he got extremely jealous and insecure (we were at the gym, and he thought I was checking out another guy)
- he feels I am so lovey dovey in texts, but in person it was not the case and it made him crazy (I explained I express my emotions easier in text)
- he's frustrated that we're not going the same pace (he has strong feelings for me, I am still developing)
- he feels like I complain about everything (always late, always tired) that I think everything sucks (I don't)
- he was unhappy that I didn't have a phone plan and said "You won't even pay $40/month so we can talk more? It's not even that much" ($40/month is a lot for me - considering all my other expenses)
- he kept making me feel pressured for not "opening up" and that I had my guard up (I just need time!!!!!). This made me feel even less towards him.

Anonymous said...

(Vivian - part 2)

Problems (cont):
- I stupidly confessed a ton of guys were messaging me on the app we text on (my cousin left this feature on where people nearby could chat you up randomly - and I didn't know how to turn it off).

We resolved it (I told him I didn't msg anyone), but it made his insecurities worse. He later questioned why I kept updating my profile on the app (I did it for me!). When he came over he wanted to see how my profile looked like (I knew he did this so he could see if I was talking to any guys).

- he flipped at me when I covered my iPad to check if I had any embarrassing browser windows opened. He thought I was hiding something.

- he told me HE felt manipulated by me that I was tricking him by telling him I loved him and didn't show it (perhaps he's the manipulative one)

- in one conversation, he expressed how he felt like I didn't bring anything to the table (not exact words). He said he didn't mind providing, didn't mind doing the cooking, cleaning..etc.. .and he felt like I wouldn't do half the things he does for me.

Almost broke up:

- one night, after clubbing, I had clarity after talking to a friend and wanted to just end things because I was feeling so pressured. I sent him some messages like we weren't right for each other, I wanted better for him and me (someone who was patient, and was HAPPY just being with me without expecting anything in return).

Understandably he was extremely sad, wouldn't meet me to talk in person, sent me a "goodbye" song. And I regretted it afterwards because I felt so scared, lost, empty without him. Him being in my life gave me security.

So I tried to backtrack and say that our differences were complementary..that I loved him since beginning of January...that we needed each other. He still wanted to be with me, so we met up to talk at my place.

He expressed a lot of things he was unhappy about - mainly like he didn't feel I loved him. He didn't feel that I would come and cook for him if he had a long day... or that if he lost his job I would be ok just hanging out watching movies.

I didn't know what to say, because my feelings were STILL developing and weren't as strong as his. It's only 3 months!!!!!

He didn't like that I didn't offer what I cooked (he said he always offers me), but I told him it was too salty and I DID think about it. I'm thinking of HIM.

At one point, I was telling him how when he kept asking me questions it made my feelings shift, he got up in anger and started tearing up that he was tired of the emotional rollercoaster, and couldn't deal with my feelings changing all the time.

I hugged him and tried to calm him down, and it seemed things were ok after that because we agreed to start over (this was like 3 days ago).

Anonymous said...

(Vivian - Part 3)

It seemed to get worse after sex (2 weeks ago):

- 1st time having sex: it wasn't planned. Coincidentally it was the day we had a long talk and resolved some issues. It was very painful (TMI: I'm tight, he's big). He kept pushing it in despite me saying stop and that I was in pain. He came, then it was over. It's only rape if I don't actually want to have sex right? :-/ I felt it was my fault because I could have told him to get off me, but I didn't.

My best friend said that she would have broken up with him after this point. I continued because I've only had one other sex partner (who was also bad in bed), and I felt gentleman treated me really well in other areas..

- 2nd time having sex: he had a long day, and snapped at me for microwaving water in 10 sec intervals (turned me off). In the bedroom, when we were having sex, I told him the light was too bright (so he turned it off). But then it was too dark, and he got really frustrated saying "OK GEEEEZ BABE" and I felt SO turned off.

I still tried to have sex, told him to go in and then I would squeeze so he could get in more but he got frustrated (he said he would go soft). I tried to turn myself on and told him "I'm going to touch myself" but apparently later I found out he didn't like it. Sex still hurt badly, but he came and it was done within 2 mins.

I cried really hard after this. He kept asking me what was wrong (he sounded all caring). I told him, he raised his voice at me (the ok geez babe). And he replied, "Well babe you raised your voice at me last week and I didn't say anything." I told my brother this and he said it was a douchy uncaring response.

Anonymous said...

(Vivian - Part 4)

- 3rd time having sex (yesterday): he was over at my place studying (he's now going to work full-time & studying). He started getting all turned on and I found out he had brought condoms & lube. Wtf. It hurt a bit less this time, and he WAS more patient and actually gave me oral.

However after he left, I discovered after going to bathroom and wiping (sorry to be gross!!) that there was light pink (blood?). I panicked and got out a mirror to see what it was. It looked like a small vaginal tear to me of some sort. Don't really know, I will talk to a nurse at the sexual health clinic.

I messaged him, and in the morning... he responded saying he hoped I felt better, that polysporin was better than vaseline, and he hoped that I would eventually feel the way he feels when he makes love to me (i.e. it felt so good) and that I would get there slowly.

Inside me, my heart sank. It was such an uncaring response. I was hoping that he would say - we can stop, we don't have to have sex. Do you want me to come over and bring you polysporin? Do you need me to come to the doc with you? I know he's out the whole day for school (from like 8-4pm) but still he could sound more caring!!!

He texted me this morning asking if I wanted to go SWIM later tonight. As if my vaginal tear was like no big deal.

And then I thought about how he should have stopped when I told him to the first time we had sex. Other people's bf/husband would stop immediately, but he kept going for his own selfish need to get off.

I thought I was going crazy - so I talked to my bro about it, who said he would have choked gentleman if he saw him in person. That he was douchy and insensitive. That he felt gentleman was high on himself and had an ego problem based on everything he has heard.

I am SO blinded.

Mirror, what do you think about all of this? I'm at a point where I don't feel happy being with him (well only sometimes when he looks at me with beautiful eyes like he really loves me), but I am not much happier without him.

We had an amazing first 2 months (even with insecurities on my part)... and then it went downhill when he felt I wasn't developing feelings fast enough. Now, I feel like I can't trust him to protect my body.

Btw he's a Sag with a Moon in Aries. I feel like that explains a lot of his behavior, but certainly doesn't excuse his insensitivity.

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Lemme also add, I feel like gentleman always knows how to word things in a way that doesn't make him feel like he's at fault.

He thinks he always thinks of me, always tries to cater to me, make me happy....and I'm the one who's not appreciating him, focusing on what's wrong instead of what he's doing right.

And if I break off with him, he will play victim - and in his head - feel that those with the kindest hearts hurt the most. That all the things he did for me were nothing in comparison to the things he did wrong (getting drunk and falling on me, and probably even the selfish sex).

Like he wants me to overlook the bad for the good.

He also thinks I'm very negative when I actually he's been carrying a lot of negative energy himself (in complaining about ME).

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
He has some valid points dear:

"he got extremely jealous and insecure"

How do you make him feel secure? You stated that he makes you feel secure through his consistent actions, so how do you reciprocate that in consistent actions back to him? I don't get the impression that this man is insecure by nature. If he was, he would not be able to treat you as well as he does (insecure men tend to be jerks LOL). So I'm guessing that there's something "more" he'd like from you that he's not getting. And if he were, he would feel secure.

"he feels I am so lovey dovey in texts, but in person it was not the case and it made him crazy (I explained I express my emotions easier in text)"

So you admit that you struggle with being emotionally vulnerable and opening up emotionally to let others "in." Which then begs the question, how are you working on "self" to rectify that? Because no matter who you're in a relationship with, this will be necessary and VITAL to whether or not the relationship lasts.

"I stupidly confessed a ton of guys were messaging me on the app we text on. . .HE felt manipulated by me that I was tricking him by telling him I loved him and didn't show it"

If you're in love, then why bother leaving that feature on, ya' know? Because doing so welcomes trouble in the relationship by permitting random strangers to speak with you, ya' know?

"he flipped at me when I covered my iPad to check if I had any embarrassing browser windows opened. He thought I was hiding something."

Any woman dating a man who hides his phone/device when checking it would feel the same way. So it's understandable when that role is reversed. Doing so would make anyone, man or woman, feel insecure and as if something is being hidden from them.

"he told me HE felt manipulated by me that I was tricking him by telling him I loved him and didn't show it"

Part of the "work" that maintaining a healthy relationship involves is that of working on "self" and making sure that your actions align with your words. Consistency is crucial to building "trust." So while sharing emotions openly may still be a struggle for you, it does require you to "work" on that part of "self" to maintain the relationship.

"he expressed how he felt like I didn't bring anything to the table (not exact words). He said he didn't mind providing, didn't mind doing the cooking, cleaning..etc.. .and he felt like I wouldn't do half the things he does for me."

It's important that you show him through your actions as well that you care for him. So in what ways do you work to accomplish that? While you're not the "provider" here, there are other small actions that display this (returning the favor and preparing dinner for him, purchasing a small item for him as a gift while you're out that made you think of him, doing something small that he'd appreciate like a back massage or something, etc.)

"I wanted better for him and me (someone who was patient, and was HAPPY just being with me without expecting anything in return"

BUT - all relationships MUST involve GIVE AND TAKE dear. They can't be a one-way street or they won't work. People in any relationship you're in expect a return on the investment they're making, be it friends, lovers, business associates, etc. Otherwise, the relationship has no value and feels unfair to the party doing the giving. People ALWAYS expect something in return for all that they're investing dear. You can't expect that you won't have to reciprocate.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"I didn't know what to say, because my feelings were STILL developing and weren't as strong as his. It's only 3 months!"

If that's the case, then the "i love you" on your part should probably not be spoken just yet :-( Because it does give the impression that "you're all in" when in reality, you're not.

"he got up in anger and started tearing up that he was tired of the emotional rollercoaster, and couldn't deal with my feelings changing all the time."

Are your emotions fluctuating regularly? You stated that he provides "security" for you -- how do you provide that feeling of security back to him? Again, consistency is key to the building of "trust."

"It's only rape if I don't actually want to have sex right? :-/ I felt it was my fault because I could have told him to get off me, but I didn't."

Careful - this is a huge accusation. And I don't get the impression that that's who this man is.

"My best friend said that she would have broken up with him after this point."

I'm not sure I agree as I cannot identify what exactly this man is doing that's so awful :-( He cares for you, he provides for you, he's patient for you albeit he does prod from time to time as anyone would if the roles were reversed, he does nice things for you, he treats you special.

So I have to ask dear -- ARE YOU LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE TO REMOvE YOURSELF FROM A HEALTHY DATING SITUATION WITH THIS MANY BECAUSE THE UNHEALTHY DATING SITUATIONS OF YOUR PAST PROVIDED MORE "EXCITEMENT" EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE SOMEWHAT UNHEALTHY AND DYSFUNCTIONAL IN A SENSE?

I'd be lying if I said that I hadn't noticed in the past that there does seem to be some enjoyment of "game playing" in dating for you. Meaning, I've noticed that the men that yank your chains and don't treat you well -- you've expressed a much greater interest in them than you have in this particular man here. And if that's the case and you agree with that statement, then that signals that there's work on "self" that needs to be done. Because you're gravitating towards unhealthy relationships and turning your back on healthy ones.

"Inside me, my heart sank. It was such an uncaring response. I was hoping that he would say - we can stop, we don't have to have sex."

If you cease having sex - you cease the relationship. He doesn't want to be your pal or your buddy, he's in love with you and he wants to be able to express that in a physical manner, as any couple does. As a result, he's hoping to be able to work through this versus cease it altogether. The lube WAS him caring, ya' know? It's not like this is all going unnoticed. He noticed, and he attempted to reduce that for you. So he is actively trying here and in doing so, he is showing you that he cares.

"He texted me this morning asking if I wanted to go SWIM later tonight. As if my vaginal tear was like no big deal."

I don't want to minimize this, and maybe I am wrong here, but this is something all women experience dear. It happens. It's a regular part of sex, and a woman's body is generally equipped to recover from this within 2-3 days.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"Now, I feel like I can't trust him to protect my body."

I'm quite sure that if you open up to this man about how this is making you feel, and the current troubles you're experiencing, he'd be more than willing to do whatever he could for you. But I will say that some of what you're experiencing is very normal. And over time, a woman's body most times can, and will, adjust to the womans sexual partner.

"Like he wants me to overlook the bad for the good."

I'm not so sure that's the case as much as it appears there's a communication breakdown here. When two people are in love, they discuss these issues and work them out amongst themselves. And yes, that requires you to open up emotionally to this man. Again, that's part of the "work" involved in maintaining a healthy relationship.

So rather than discuss this with friends or your brother, I have to ask -- have you discussed this in detail at all with this man? Have you opened up emotionally and permitted yourself to be that vulnerable with him? Or are you closing off to him and only permitting yourself to be vulnerable with friends and family instead?

Because you have to give THIS MAN a chance to understand this. You have to give this man a chance to work through it WITH you. And if he's to do that, then that means that you have to permit yourself to be vulnerable and emotionally open up to him. This gives him the opportunity to work through it with you. But if he's not even aware of your true feelings on the matter, he can't do that and then yes -- he would appear selfish. (Because he has no clue how you're feeling, and can only speak for himself from his own poit of reference as a result.)

So when you say this "since the beginning, I felt something "missing"...I still don't know what." Could it be that what's missing is an emotional connection with this man? And could it be that that emotional connection is missing because you won't emotionally open up and become vulnerable with him? Could it be that your admitted struggle with openign up and showing your emotions face-to-face is what's causing a lack of an emotional connection here?

Could it be dear, that the reason you're more averse to this gentlemen, and more prone to find the "jerks" of the world more exciting to date. . .is because the "jerks" of the world don't ask you to let them into your heart and become vulnerable with them emotionally? Could it be that the lighthearted "games" and lack of seriousness that the "jerks" of the world offer is more enticing to you than say. . .being in the scary position of having to become emotionally vulnerable?

Could it be that relationships or dating experiences of that type are less scary, and require less "work" and sacrifice from you to participate in? And as a result, they end up feeling more fulfilling than dating a true gentlement that actually requires work to keep the relationship afloat?

I'm not saying this is the case, and I could be wrong about a lot of this. However, I would like to provide some food for thought that enables you to really dig deep within yourself and ask yourself why you're holding back on this man? To explore why you're more willing, more relaxed and more excited to become involved in unhealthy relationships -- than you are to become involved in a healthy one with a gentleman that treats you well.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Again, I could be wrong, and you both have valid points. . .but I get the impression that you're looking for reasons to bail on this man. And I've never seen you dig so deep for reasons to bail on some of the "jerks" you've dated.

As a matter of fact, there were times I've seen you actually look for reasons to dismiss the actions of a "jerk" so you could continue dating them.

So I do sense a pattern of looking for reasons to "give the jerks a break" and look for reasons to "give the gentleman the boot" taking place here LOL ;-)

In the past I've seen comments from you listing all the bad things a jerk was doing and then asking, "Is this bad, or should I just overlook it?" Whereas with this gentleman, I see you doing the exact opposite and listing all the things he's doing bad and then not asking if it should be overlooked and instead - condemning him for it (expressing complete disapproval of).

You question the jerks behavior (giving them "wiggle room" for error) while judging the gentleman's as completely wrong (granting no wiggle room for error).

Does that make sense?

Again, I mean no harm here. I realize that some of this may sting and for that, I apologize. But the reality is that sometimes we have to take a hard look at ourselves and our own actions in the mirror if we're to really help ourselves. Because we can't be one half of a healthy relationship if we, ourselves, are not completely healthy. It sucks, I know. Been there, done that, and I've given myself many black eyes along the way LOL. I'm not saying he's right, you're wrong - and I'm not saying he's wrong and you're right.

All I'm saying is that when two people are in love, they're willing to become emotionally vulnerable with one another, let the other "in" and explore these things openly - discussing them together in an attempt to work through them. And that requires both parties to do the "work" of making a relationship actually work.

Because no one is ever going to do everything right - all the time.

But that doesn't mean you can't work through the things that aren't working to find some common ground and a compromise that everyone is happy with. If you find someone that fulfills 80% of what you need, you're actually doing GREAT -- because the other 20% can be worked out if both parties are willing to do the "work" required to reach a resolution that feels fair to both ;-)

So all I'm saying is - give this man a chance to fix these things by opening up to him emotionally and letting him "in" -- so you can both meet on common ground.

Anonymous said...

Mirror,

I've let your comments sink in a bit... they do make sense....and I do see how the entire duration of the relationship, I've been treating him worse than the jerks I've dated.

Even now, I take hours to reply his text because I don't want to come across as being too available. Which is ridiculous because he's my boyfriend!!

I let him choose what to do and never suggest dates/outings, because I don't want to emasculate him or appear to initiate too much.

It's not that I don't know how to be in a relationship; I was an amazing girlfriend who reciprocated easily with my first love 13 years ago (who I was with for 4 years).

Somewhere along the way, I've just turned into a taker in every relationship (possibly as a defense mechanism, so I never feel I've lost anything but time?).

One thing I don't really get is, and that I'd love for you to clarify: How is that him pushing himself in me - even though I was clearly expressing intense pain and telling him to STOP - not something that's a dealbreaker?

If a woman tells a man to stop - and he doesn't - how is that a sign he LOVES her?

I *have* opened up to him, but he responds in anger and would turn it around and blame it on me.. that I don't believe that he cares, and then he feels he's tired of proving his love to me.

When all I wanted from him (and I told him this, though it was in text) that I wanted a "Babe are you ok? How do you feel? Do you need me to bring you something?"

I don't know how to work these issues out with him.

I suggested we part ways earlier...and he said "If it's too hard for you, fine" and I said "No what's "hard" is going in circles and not getting anywhere."

He then suggested a talk in person because he didn't want to text. I was a little icy, and just said "Okay" at the time. Then he started ignoring me (understandable). So the next day I expressed how I felt that I was defensive, and it was affecting other parts of my life. And that I didn't want to fight anymore, and wanted heart to heart talks.

He seemed to have softened up (i.e. be friendlier), though said he said he has grown distant the past few weeks.

Then once again he suggested meeting in person but this time, he wrote, "If you still want to talk, I can meet and provide closure." This confuses me - provide ME with closure? Has he already decided we are done? :-(

So we will be meeting on Saturday, but I'm terrified that our break up will be final.

Yes, my emotions have been fluctuating quite a bit - particularly this week due to PMS. Before that, it was because he was constantly pressuring me to open up/let down my guard. So I would a bit, but then found it exhausting, so I would close back up.

It's really difficult to deal with him not messaging me much anymore (when we used to text like 4 times a day - with him *always* messaging me before work, but now he ignores me).

I asked about his performance review and he said he got a really big raise and his drive and motivation was through the roof. It seems like he's going strong.

Mirror, do you think our relationship is salvageable? Do you think it sounds like he has given up and wants me out of his life? Is it TOO late? Should I just accept the break up?

I wish you had an article on how to treat a good man right, LOL.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
"I take hours to reply his text because I don't want to come across as being too available. .I let him choose what to do and never suggest dates/outings, because I don't want to emasculate him or appear to initiate too much."

Well remember, this man has already asked you to be exclusive. As you stated, he's your boyfriend at this point. So when it comes to the things you've referenced above, you no longer have to be as strict about it - because you've already got the guy LOL ;-)

But more importantly, he's proved himself to you and continues to do so by remaining consistent in his actions and treatment of you, which means you can trust him a bit more at this point.

"Somewhere along the way, I've just turned into a taker in every relationship (possibly as a defense mechanism, so I never feel I've lost anything but time?)"

I understand. I understand how once you've been bitten, it's difficult to be completely open and trust others. And as humans, we each choose different methods of self-preservation. Just try to remember that healthy relationships involve give and take, and the great part of a healthy relationship is how both parties make the other feel ;-)

"If a woman tells a man to stop - and he doesn't - how is that a sign he LOVES her? [Is that] not something that's a dealbreaker?"

This is something that only you can really know. Because there are different levels to this. I have no way of knowing if "aggression" in a vicious or violent sense took place. Sometimes when two people who are in love are making love, passion can take over. Sometimes women want to take it slower and men move faster than we'd like. And sometimes they want to do things that we women aren't comfortable with.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that any of this was right. I'm not saying that a woman should let a man unleash his passions without her necessarily being comfortable with it. All I'm saying is that there are different levels to this. And sometimes when two people are experiencing each other for the first few times, they're styles are off or their working at different speeds. Yea, he should've stopped. But on the other hand, it's possible things just got a bit out of control for him, his passions took over, he was moving too fast, and his style was a bit too forceful for you. Some women like aggressive sex, some women don't. And I guess speaking for myself personally, if there were viciousness and violence involved - that's an absolute deal breaker. That's not love, it's violence. But if the guy just got a bit ahead of himself, there was no violence, and I felt I could trust him, he truly did love me, and he treated me well - I'd be pissed and I'd make it clear that this isn't just about him. My wishes are to be respected as well. But given that I do trust him, he does treat me well, there was no violence, and I really felt he did love me - I don't think I'd hold it against him forever after stating my case with him.

There are a lot of subtleties involved. And with some people and some couples, that may be their preferred style. For instance, some people claim that "make up sex" is some of the best sex in the world - because it includes a bit of aggression mixed with heavy passion most times. Because the two people are a bit angry with one another and working that out physically (aggression), but in the end they truly do care for one another and love each other (passion). For me personally, the deal breaker would be aggression in the form of violence. Violence is violence and there's no love in it or behind it. But in the end dear, it's really your decision. You're the only one who truly knows, ya' know?

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"I *have* opened up to him, but he responds in anger and would turn it around and blame it on me.. that I don't believe that he cares, and then he feels he's tired of proving his love to me. When all I wanted from him (and I told him this, though it was in text) that I wanted a "Babe are you ok? How do you feel? Do you need me to bring you something?"

I feel there's some communication breakdown here possibly. Again, I can't emphasize enough how important it is to communicate these things face to face, and not behind a device. People cannot read the emotions on your face when it's hidden behind a device. They cannot see it in your eyes. They cannot sense it in your voice. Things can be so very easily misconstrued in text and emails and whatnot. Therefore, sensitive matters and important discussions need to take place face to face and not from behind a device.

And if these conversations have taken place face to face and his knee jerk reaction is one of anger - I know it's hard, but try to work past that. Because you have to understand that as humans, one of our predictable behaviors when being "confronted" is to swing into self-preservation mode and become defensive (because someone is on the offense against you). So a bit of that at first is to be expected. And the way to combat that is to remain calm, unnerved by it (don't become defensive yourself), and stay the course and continue to share your emotions. Once the person realizes that you're not out to "get them" but instead, you're simply attempting to be heard, generally they'll relax, let their defenses down, and then real communication can take place.

"I suggested we part ways earlier...and he said "If it's too hard for you, fine" and I said "No what's "hard" is going in circles and not getting anywhere. . .He then suggested a talk in person because he didn't want to text."

Again, you really have to cease communicating your feelings from behind a device. Communication received from a device is emotionless. No one can feel your emotions when you're attempting to communicate sensitive subjects and complex feelings from behind a device.

Technology is a BARRIER to healthy communication.

"So the next day I expressed how I felt that I was defensive, and it was affecting other parts of my life. And that I didn't want to fight anymore, and wanted heart to heart talks."

You want heart to heart talks - but you're not holding them. You can't have those in a text or an email. If you want heart to heart talks, you have to actually open your heart up and hold them face to face in an honest manner so that the other party is able to actually "feel" your heart and see it on your face and in your eyes. No one can feel your heart in a text because again, device communications are emotionless.

"he wrote, "If you still want to talk, I can meet and provide closure." This confuses me - provide ME with closure? Has he already decided we are done?"

No dear - YOU did. You told him, "I suggested we part ways."

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

It appears to me that this man really wants to connect with you badly "He then suggested a talk in person. . .once again he suggested meeting in person." And I sense that he feels that you're deliberately placing barriers in the way of that (using a device to communicate). As a result, he's frustrated. Because he probably feels he's been "investing" a lot into this relationship, but he sense that you're not willing to do so because you won't open up to him, become vulnerable, and share your emotions face to face in one of those heart to heart conversations you, yourself, are asking for, ya' know?

I'm not saying he's right and you're wrong. This isn't about "winning," it's about dropping your guard a bit, trusting a bit, and finding methods of healthy communication that produce results and that create an emotional bond that brings you two closer together as a result.

"he was constantly pressuring me to open up/let down my guard. So I would a bit, but then found it exhausting, so I would close back up."

Well dear, relationships require hard work, sacrifice and compromise. And yea, all of those things are exhausting LOL. Relationships are a LOT of hard work. I remind folks of this regularly on the site because it's crucial that people understand this before getting into one. It's one thing to say, "I want a relationship." But it's another to say, "I want a relationship that I don't have to work at." That's never going to be the case - EVER. Which is why I often tell people, if you're not prepared to do the work involved to have and maintain a relationship, then you probably shouldn't be in one - because they ARE hard work, and that hard work IS exhausting at times.

Why do you think the divorce rate is so high? It isn't easy and it's not always fun and games like people romanticize it to be LOL ;-)

"Mirror, do you think our relationship is salvageable?"

Well dear, that depends - are you ready and willing to do the work involved, make the sacrifices that are necessary and arrive at compromises from time to time - in order to have and maintain one LOL ;-)

Because if he is and you are - then yea, there's a fighting chance here. If not, then no, there's probably a natural end this may reach :-(

There's an old saying, "The grass is greener on the other side of the fence. . .but you still have to mow it."

Having a beautiful lawn requires hard work and constant maintenance. Having a beautiful relationship also requires hard work and constant maintenance. No matter who you're with (or which side of the fence you're on), any way you slice it - anything worth having always requires hard work to attain.

"Do you think it sounds like he has given up and wants me out of his life? Is it TOO late? Should I just accept the break up?"

I'm not sure. I do believe this man loves you. And it wasn't his choice to end this (remember, it was you who suggested that, not him). I don't think this is what he wanted. I don't think he invested as heavily as he did because he wanted to eventually leave. But on the same hand, if he doesn't receive a return on that investment (you opening up and letting him in), I'm not sure how much longer he's going to continue to invest :-(

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"I wish you had an article on how to treat a good man right, LOL."

Well, this is an unusual situation for me. Trust me dear, having this conversation with you is not easy for me. Because I do have good intention here, but I'm kinda' forced to point some of these painful things out in order to try and help you, which isn't easy.

And I'm usually holding this conversation about a MAN, and not a WOMAN LOL ;-)

It's usually a man that's emotionally unavailable and not opening up to a woman. It's usually a woman making heavy "investments" into a relationship while the man is holding back. But if I overlooked these things and instead, simply told you what you wanted to hear, then I wouldn't really be helping you, ya' know?

So this is rather new for me ;-)

I understand how "scary" all of this can be. It's scary to open up and let someone in and become vulnerable with them, especially after you've been burned. But "healing" does need to take place if an individual is to have and maintain a healthy relationship, and I'm a firm believer that that healing starts with "self" and "acceptance."

In otherwords, if you get past this hurdle, if you "accept" this man's love and you work on "self" in order to do that and break down those walls so that your heart can actually receive that love - you're like 80% of the way there because that's more than half the battle here for you.

This battle really lies in "self" (inside of you, struggling to trust and open up and let him in in a genuine, authentic manner) - and not really with him if you think about it. I believe the battle you're having here is with yourself and not with him.

And once you get over your"self" - you will have let him in ;-)

(And I don't say that as in "get over yourself." I say that in the manner I broke it down - get over "self" - the issues within yourself that you're struggling with. Once you do that he's in, and the bond is cemented.)

Anonymous said...

@Vivian
Just my two cents if I may... It seems to me that you have finally found a really nice man, somebody who undoubtedly has honest intentions with you. Mirror has written to you very beautiful advice. Apart from other things love is mainly a decision after all. I think the guy has already decided for you. What about you? Will you decide for him too? And if you don´t it´s okay because it means you are simply not ready for a relationship like that but please don´t torture him for too long- it´s like when we allow men torture us emotionally, you have that experience yourself so don´t do it to him. And like Mirror I also think that his sex behaviour wasn´t that bad. You are still young and I think that when you are older (my experience) you will look at these things differently. He is a man (and a young one) and I think he bahaved as well as a (young) man can in such a situation. I guess you expeceted him to behave more like your girlfriend, which he simply couldn´t .
Sorry if I bothered you (btw I am a Sag with an Aries moon too - these people speak their mindLoL)

Best wishes to all
Hopeful

Fire & Water said...

@Vivian,
I'm so glad my comments helped you! If you try applying any of this and get stuck anywhere, please feel free to reach out. I have two other great things about small cups to share with you: 1) they're much more comfortable than large ones when you sleep on your stomach and 2) they don't tend to get saggy nearly as easily :) ...I hope that bit of lightheartedness will make you smile as it seems you are going through some tough moments right now.
When there are so many conflicting thoughts and emotions, it can feel like chaos. Take a moment, stop, breathe, step outside the emotions and re-center yourself. I'm echoing Hopeful here when I say: remember that you have complete power and control over your life. You can choose to do your personal self-work and the relationship-work together and keep this guy. You can also choose to let him go and do the work you need to do on yourself without him. You have the power. Its only about figuring out what you want. Mirror is right when she says this battle is with yourself. And whatever you choose, it's ok. Either way, there's a way forward to happiness. Don't feel pressured - let the pressure go. It makes it harder to make a good choice for yourself. Try to be really honest with yourself (that "hostage in the mirror" thing :) ) about why you're choosing what you're choosing, so in hindsight, whether it turns out pretty or ugly, you'll know why you made the choice you did at the time.
Lastly, you said you found being open easy when you were in a previous relationship. There may be something there you should look at ... did something change after that or through that? What made the difference for you between that time period in your life and now? The answer might help you find a way forward.
Know that there's a lot of bright, strong supportive energy coming your way! Hugs
F & W

Fire & Water said...

@Vivian
A PS :)
I noticed this "I cried really hard after this. He kept asking me what was wrong (he sounded all caring). I told him, he raised his voice at me (the ok geez babe)."
and I wanted to ask you to think about that for a minute. Was it really that he raised his voice that bothered you? Or was that a detail that you used as kind of a dodge..like, it was one small thing that bothered you but the true big issue was that the sex was a mess and hurt you and not what you wanted the two of you to be like together? If you want to find out whether he really cares about you and will do the work with you, you can't dodge. Give him the crux of the matter. Its only fair to him...and to you! If the way I've described it is right and the sex, not the voice-raising, was the main issue, tell him about the sex (don't make it his fault...think of you both as a team that has to practice coming together the right way and present it like that) and skip the voice thing. Then see how he reacts.
My $.02 again :) ...hang in there, girl!
F & W

Anonymous said...

Mirror,

I'm so glad I can have this conversation with you - thank you so so so so much.

I *want* to be a success story - to post my happily ever after here for you one day. I still believe this will happen.

You asked: "are you ready and willing to do the work involved, make the sacrifices that are necessary and arrive at compromises from time to time - in order to have and maintain one?"

While I am not 100% ready, I'm at least 70% there. I've even bought an ebook that an acquaintance recommended earlier that helped her find the right man and have a happy, fulfilling relationship. I'm working on myself, as you advised.

But now, I'm at a loss... I don't know what the gentleman is doing (it feels like game playing?).

I've been open to him and have TOLD him I was willing to tell him everything in person (because he doesn't want to text). I'm willing, mirror. I *know* our communication breakdown is due to text.

We had planned to meet on Saturday to have a heart-to-heart talk. On Friday, he messaged multiple times to see if I was free but I was at the gym and didn't reply till later. By then I was too tired to see him in the evening (perhaps that angered him?)

Saturday comes - I wait for him all afternoon to finish his study group. By evening, after dinner, he says he's too exhausted and will stay in. I was not upset (I was understanding), but told him I hoped he knew that I cleared my entire Saturday for him.

He replied saying "except morning and lunchtime." But he KNEW that I had menstrual cramps in the morning. I suggested we reschedule and he just said "ok."

In the evening, I called him around 10ish, but he didn't pick up.

Sunday morning, our text convo went like this:

Him: Sorry I missed your call, I fell asleep
Me: It's ok. Was just going to say the tension has been going on for a long time. I wish we could work it out and be happy.
Him: What are your plans for the afternoon/evening? I have so much homework to do.
There are a few things that I need from my gf that I'm not getting or feeling... Unfortunately they are make or break type things. I'm not sure where you stand or how you feel but that's where I am at.
Me: I'm free in the afternoon and probably around 9pm after dinner. Same, there are 1-2 things I really need in a bf.
Him: I might go for a swim later so 9 could work. Sounds like we both know what we need so it shouldn't be hard to resolve
Me: Yeah shouldn't be hard.. just decisions to be made

While we didn't *confirm* an exact time, it sounded like we could meet after my dinner. I was so happy we could talk!

I messaged him around 9 when I got home, and he texted that he fell asleep and was watching netflix. I playfully asked him to get up. No response.

Then I told him I was going to the community center (across my building) to do some work, and to let me know if he was going. (Btw, he's ok with meeting me at a public location because my mom is currently visiting me right now.)

NO RESPONSE!!!! I get that he's really tired from studying, but it's starting to really piss me off.

Mirror, please please tell me what is gentleman doing?

You said he wants to connect with me badly, so why is he dragging this on?

If we cannot give each other what we need, we can break up and move on. He said himself that it was easy to resolve, so why won't he make a TINY effort to resolve it? It takes 7-10 mins to drive over to where I'm at (I don't drive).

I almost feel like he's testing my patience and waiting for me to blow up at him. At what point does a gentleman turn into a jerk?

I feel like a doormat right now, waiting on him to meet me so we can resolve things and move on. I refuse to end things without an in person meeting.

I'm open and available - 100%. Why is this not having any effect? I've been so understanding to the point it feels like he doesn't respect me.

If he no longer feels anything for me - why drag it on?

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Hopeful,

No no you didn't bother me at all, I thank you for your perspective and thoughts on my situation!

I absolutely adore Sags (so optimistic, open, and honest!), but it's guys with moon in Aries (and Sun Aries) that get on my nerves because they tend to be quick to anger and want things right away (I take my time to open up emotionally).

As I have written mirror above, I *am* ready, but he's torturing me it seems.

I now see how it's possible that what happened during sex might not be so bad... I suppose he got caught up in the moment, and just wanted to badly have sex with me after all this time. It sounded like he usually has sex within the first month, while he waited 3 months to do it with me.

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Fire & Water,

Thanks for trying to make me smile and for all the supportive energy! :-) I'm so incredibly blessed to have you in my life (though virtually).

I want to do the self-work AND relationship-work together with him; I can do the self-work any time I'm single, but since he's still in my life, I should take that opportunity.

He already stated that he wasn't getting/feeling what he wanted from a gf (it sounds like he doesn't want me?) - but why would he drag it on and not try to meet me to end things? He kind of cancelled on me twice already due to being "tired/exhausted."

Perhaps I should be more supportive? I guess the selfish part of me wants to get it done asap so I can just schedule a party on Valentine's weekend and have fun.

I have SO much to talk to him about... heart-to-heart... including the sex mess...but he's avoiding meeting me in person (that or he really IS extremely tired from studying).

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
"Mirror, please please tell me what is gentleman doing?"

Well, I suspect he feels he's been officially dumped. And as a result, it's possible he may not even meet so as to avoid any further hurt for himself :-(

I suspect he feels that if this was important to you to repair, you'd make it, and him a top priority. And I suspect that when this took place:

". .he messaged multiple times to see if I was free but I was at the gym and didn't reply till later. By then I was too tired to see him in the evening"

He pretty much felt like, "Well, that's it. It's over. She's ignoring me, and now she doesn't even want to see me. It's done."

And I suspect when this took place the following day:

". .he says he's too exhausted and will stay in. I was not upset (I was understanding), but told him I hoped he knew that I cleared my entire Saturday for him."

He felt a bit "schooled" - meaning, you pointed out that you had cleared your schedule for him (kinda' like reprimanding him a bit), yet the day before when you kinda' bailed on him, I don't see him responding in that manner to it, ya' know?

So I think that upset him further, which caused him to point out to you the "except morning and lunchtime" situation. . .which then compelled him to think about whether or not his needs were being met, or taken into consideration:

"There are a few things that I need from my gf that I'm not getting or feeling.."

And when you responded with:

"Same, there are 1-2 things I really need in a bf."

I think that may have possibly even further cemented in his mind that you're officially done with him. Because I suspect he (as probably anyone would) was hoping to instead see some genuine concern and effort along the lines of:

"I know you haven't been happy lately, and I just want you to know that I've been thinking a lot about this and you're right to feel this way. I've made some mistakes, but I'm not through trying. I really want this to work, and I want you to know that I'm going to work on myself so that I change some of these things and provide more of what you need."

That'd be a response that gives "hope" to the situation - it's a response that shows a "willingness" to "work" through the problems at hand as a couple, through compromise, sacrifice, open communication and effort, etc.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

I think he was disheartened even further when the response he received back was a response that instead signaled that there's no hope, "Same, there are 1-2 things I really need in a bf."

If that were me and I got that response back, I'd say to myself, "Well, sounds like this is officially over for good." And at that point, I'm not even sure myself if I'd go meet with someone to hear that again, face to face :-(

His final response has an tone of "defeated" to me:

"Sounds like we both know what we need so it shouldn't be hard to resolve" Translation: "Yea this is over and beyond repair."

And the response he got back most likely confirmed that for him:

"Yeah shouldn't be hard.. just decisions to be made"

Because it lacks emotion or a sense of regret, sadness or a desire and willingness to make efforts to repair things (because it reads more like a business decision). :-(

"You said he wants to connect with me badly, so why is he dragging this on?"

I believe he wanted to connect badly with you to REPAIR this dear. And I suspect that recent events may have possibly led him to feel that there's no hope. And if that's the case, I suspect he's too hurt or proud to meet with you to be dumped, ya' know? I suspect he thinks that's what this will be about now :-(

"If we cannot give each other what we need, we can break up and move on. He said himself that it was easy to resolve, so why won't he make a TINY effort to resolve it?"

Well, see what I mean - you're talking about meeting to break up. You're not signaling a desire to actually resolve this as a "repair." You see the resolution as a break up, and I suspect that he's picked up on that. And if that's the case, he may never meet with you only to be hurt by doing so, ya' know?

Think about it. If you were in love and crazy about some guy, but the guy didn't feel as strongly about you as you did about him, and you suspected he wanted to talk to break up with you. . .would you really meet to do that? Or would recent communications be enough for you to get the picture and decide not to meet, because you know how painful it's going to be?

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...


"I feel like a doormat right now, waiting on him to meet me so we can resolve things and move on. I refuse to end things without an in person meeting."

Well, again - why is this meeting all of a sudden to clarify the END of things, instead of being a meeting geared towards attempting to REPAIR them? I thought last week you wanted to repair things and not end them?

And while you may want to meet to end things, the reality is that the other person doesn't have to agree to do so. It's human nature to tend to avoid putting yourself through painful situations, and it's possible that this man is simply not going to do that at this point, because he realizes that's exactly what this meeting is about now.

"I'm open and available - 100%. Why is this not having any effect?"

Because the only thing you're actually making yourself open and available for here dear -- appears to be an END.

There's no sign of regret or hurt or sadness or a willingness or a desire to work this out, which signals to others that you're NOT open to that, but you ARE open to ending it.

And as I stated above, I suspect he was hopeful of seeing those signs and when he didn't and he realized it's just going to be a meeting where he's handed his walking papers - he's rethinking whether or not he should even put himself through this, ya' know? He's hurting dear, that's all. He's done a lot and he's treated you well and he's made a lot of effort here and. . .he's in love. He's in love with you and he's not sensing any feelings of warmth in return from you and it's painful for him is all. And I'm sure you can understand that.

"If he no longer feels anything for me - why drag it on?"

Truthfully, I'm no longer convinced he will drag this on. Things are now sounding pretty final here. And I believe it's possible that this man now considers this officially over. . .and he may be prepared to just fade away and leave you alone and not bother you anymore :-(

So if you're truly done with him, and you have no desire to work at this together as a couple in an attempt to repair it, you may just want to make it official so both parties can move on. And if that means using a device to communicate that, then so be it at this point. Because I'm not sure this man is going to put himself through showing up for a face to face meeting only to be dumped, ya' know? It's not what I'd normally suggest, but in this case, it might actually be for the best in this particular instance to spare him any humiliation or pain, ya' know? If he is truly a good man, sparing him that might be best.

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