"Mirror, mirror on the wall. . .where did he go? And why hasn't he called?"


















Online Internet Dating Advice: Do’s And Don’ts For Women

You gals asked for it, so here it is, ladies. A handy little woman’s guide to the world of online dating or what some might affectionately call “The Twilight Zone.”

Yes, the world of online dating can be freaky, indeed. Don’t get me wrong, it works for some and I do know couples that have met online and are happily dating and/or married. But here’s the rub with this new form of meeting people – you literally have to filter through hundreds of profiles, hundreds of players, hundreds of liars and hundreds of fake people – man or woman, before potentially meeting Mr. or Mrs. Right.

After filtering, you then have to conduct interviews of sorts. Not interrogations, but you need to know how to ask the right questions, in the right manner, in order to gain the information you’re truly seeking from the individual without looking obvious while doing so.

If you’re currently dating online and NOT doing the filtering, sorting and “interviewing” like I’ve referenced above, then chances are you’re not qualifying people as a potential match and meeting a lot of individuals you have no interest in, that are off kilter, so-to-speak, and that disappear and reappear like magic. If that sounds like you, you’re probably frustrated and feel like you’re wasting a lot of time on a lot of bad dates with a lot of people that don’t even deserve your attention, whether you’re male or female.

Guys, regretfully I won’t have much advice for you here because I’m not a man. However, to truly meet a nice, mature, non-game playing, emotionally well balanced woman in the world of online dating, if you conduct yourself in the manners I’ve listed below and then follow through with them in your dating tactics, you will pull a nice woman out of the crowd of crazies. (And we do invite you to contribute your thoughts, advice or online dating experiences in the comments here.)

So let’s get started . . .

Your Online Dating Profile: Do’s And Don’ts For Women


Don’t: Be like everyone else. There are a few things we can accept most every woman will tend to say. “I like animals.” “I’m spontaneous and outgoing.” “I wish for world peace.” You get the idea. Scrap that, throw it out the window. You need to express yourself in your profile. Men can smell fake a mile away and it bores them to death. Men look for what’s real, they look for what’s different, a challenge excites them. Don’t be the 60th profile they’ve read that says all the same stuff. Be different, be daring, be a tad snarky (in a nice, funny way) and let your attitude show. Believe it or not, ladies, men like attitude. It turns them on. Don’t be mean, but dare to be a bit balsy about who you really are.

Do: Be yourself. We ran a test with this. Peaches n’ cream “vanilla” profile versus snarky, balsy profile with attitude, a bit of sass and real expression. (And we really pushed the limit in the snarky profile, let me tell you). And guess what? The peaches n’ cream profile received an average amount of views and contacts. But that snarky profile. . . it blew up! In 17 hours, 42 winks rolled in and 27 emails were received along with well over 400 views. Moral of the story? Be yourself, express yourself, show your humorous side and have fun with it. Dare to be different.

Your Profile Pictures

Don’t: Take the proverbial, “I’m in the bathroom mirror shot.” Lighting is horrible and no one cares to see your shitter or your makeup mess in the image. And dear God, do not put provocative photos in your profile. Dating is like fishing. If you’re fishing for bass, you use bass bait. If you’re fishing for trout, you use trout bait. Not all bait attracts the same fish.

If you use provocative photos, you’re going to catch a player (and an STD). And don’t put up images of you and your girlfriends, stop that right now. I actually had a male friend say to me once, “Why do girls do that? There’s always a friend who’s hotter than them and then you consider dating them just to meet their hot friend.” Yikes! Don’t do that.

Also, don’t put images on your profile of you in a bar, drinking, drunk or with a beer in your hand, behaving like a tramp. We all know you lead an exciting life with tons of friends, but common sense should tell you why it’s not wise to do this. If you want to attract an alcoholic, or a frat boy party animal or a player who will use you and then toss you to the curb, then go ahead. Otherwise, clean it up and portray yourself as a lady, not some ding-a-ling trashy girl if it’s a gentleman you truly seek.

Lastly, don’t post photos of yourself with other men. And don’t post photos of yourself with other men with their head missing – we all still know he has a penis and that it’s a man. We know you want to look popular, but there are other ways to portray that. Leave the past in the past.

Do: Take photos outside with nice backgrounds, preferably in the sunshine. On a subconscious level, those images trigger nice thoughts in an individual’s mind and convey happiness, emotional well being and stability. If you have a pet, post a photo of you smiling and enjoying your pet’s company. Always post a nice close up headshot and always include one full body shot. Take the images seriously and have a friend take them for you. Take the photos at interesting angles in artistic ways (try cocking the camera to one side to add interest) and don’t always smile big in every single one of them. Mix it up a bit and be real, you don’t want to look like a Barbie doll with only one expression in every shot. And always show off your best assets – but in a classy manner.

You’re shooting for sexy, fun and playful here. Not slutty, troubled and an emotionally unbalanced train wreck.

Online Dating Conduct: Do’s and Don’ts For Women


If A Guy Gives His Telephone Number To You In His First Email Contact

Don’t: Ever call or text him and don’t even bother to respond in an effort to get to know him. These men, 9 times out of 10, are either lazy or they’re players who aren’t taking dating seriously and treating it like gambling – a numbers game. He’s handing out his number to dozens of women in that manner, knowing that the odds are in his favor. After dozens of giveaways, one woman will actually fall for this and pick up the phone and call him. No man in real life walks up to you, without saying a word, hands you his number and says, “Gimmie a call.” And if he did, you’d probably be suspicious of him. Well the same goes for the online world. There should be an introductory period. If there isn’t - be suspect of him.

And because he isn’t taking any of this seriously and he’s treating dating like a sport or a game of gambling, he won’t take you seriously when you actually pick up the phone and call him. He’ll assume that you’re desperate and he’ll simply take to toying with you, much like a cat does with a mouse. Men sleep with desperate women but they don’t take them home to see mama. These are lazy men that are seeking the perfect victim (i.e. a woman with low self-esteem that’s desperate for male attention, who will sell herself short by reversing the roles, becoming the aggressor and doing all of the work.) Don’t be the perfect victim.

Do: Expect more for yourself and a little bit of effort to be invested from a man before giving him your attention. Delete that email immediately and move along.

If A Guy Gives His Telephone Number To You After A Couple Email Exchanges



Don’t: Call or text him when he does this. A man who is serious about getting to know you will either:

1.) ask you for your number
2.) hint around about chatting sometime

Never, ever, ever be the one to make the first call or text – EVER. Trust me on this, Ladies. The very few first communications you have with someone set the tone for how you will communicate with one another from that point forward. If you become the aggressor, he’ll become lazy and take you for granted. You will spend the entire relationship making attempts to get to know him, making attempts to communicate, making attempts to get his attention – making ALL the attempts.

If you start a relationship out in that manner, he won’t value you; he’ll see you as desperate. He’ll never lift a finger for you, because you’ll be signaling to him that you’re willing to settle for no investment on his part and you’re willing to do all the heavy lifting, all the work, to get this thing off the ground. Never begin a relationship by being the aggressor. It turns men off, they see you as easy prey, and in two weeks, he’ll be disappearing on you and blowing you off - but he will sleep with you before doing so.

The best way to gauge a man’s interest and intentions is to see if he’s willing to invest in you. Men go after what they want. If he wants you, he’ll come looking for you. And when he does, it is at that point that you give him your attention, once he’s put a little bit of effort into it.

No one gets anything for free and only cheats and liars expect something for nothing.

Do: Give him your phone number in return (if it’s unlisted and cannot be traced back to a physical address and if you’ve had several email exchanges where you’ve “felt him out” a bit first and are ready to speak). The other option is to connect with him via a service like the Match.com phone service. Either way, always let him make the first move. He’s a man, let him be one.

If A Guy Invites You To Meet In Person In The First Email Contact


Don’t: Ever go meet him without exchanging several emails first and speaking on the phone several times. Many men will attempt to rush things along (then wonder why they’re disappointed once they get it).

The courtship process is exactly that – a process. If you truly want to connect with someone in an authentic manner, then the process needs to be authentic, too, the tried and true way. Otherwise, he’ll be (secretly) disappointed that you gave in so quickly, he won’t take you seriously and you’ll either end up a hook up – or dead. And I mean that, girls. Never go meet a strange man you met on the Internet that doesn’t even have the common courtesy to exchange conversation with you first or even ask your damn name before asking to meet up with you. That’s a disaster waiting to happen.

Do: Consider him lazy (or a serial killer) and move along. A gentleman that’s seeking to truly connect in an authentic manner with a woman would never ask her to do that. Nor would he ever expect a true lady to be crazy enough to do so. A serious man will want to converse with you first and find out your name and your interests before he invests any time, effort or money into you.

People connect through conversation – they get screwed by meeting up with nameless strangers in the dark of night.

If A Guy Has His Shirt Off In His Photos (And He Isn’t At The Beach)


Don’t: Ever communicate with him. He’s trolling the Internet for sex and he’s signaling that that’s what it’s all about in those photos. Especially if one of those shirtless photos is of him lying in bed, holding the phone up, looking down on himself (portraying the view you’d have if you were on top of him –ick).

Chances are he’s got a profile on all of the seedier sites, too. The free sites like Plenty O’ Fish, where folks openly troll for sex and no-strings-attached hook ups. Stay the hell away from those free sites, Ladies. Creeps troll those. A good man looking for a good woman is willing to pay for a service to make that happen. Creeps trolling for sex don’t want to spend a dime to get laid and, as a result, the free sites are full of creeps trolling for free sex.

Do: Grab a quick shower to get the “ick” off your skin, have a good laugh and move along.

If You’ve Exchanged Several Emails With A Guy And He’s Asked To Meet You


Don’t: Go unless you’ve had at least one or two telephone conversations first. Again, courtship is a process and people connect in an authentic manner via conversation. If you skip this part, there’s a really good chance you won’t feel a connection with him and he won’t feel one for you (although he’ll pretend to in an effort to make the date worth his while to see if he can at least get laid from it). This is the biggest mistake people make when dating online, they rush things, and then wonder why they’re not connecting with anyone or are constantly disappointed. Men, this goes for you, too. If you don’t speak to a girl first, you’re not going to feel connected to her on any real level on the date either (except possibly physically).

Imagine it this way. Would you feel a connection with a total stranger that approached you in public, never spoke but gestured for you to join them for lunch? Hell no. Why? Because it’s a stranger and you’ve never even heard the sound of their voice, that’s why. The “getting to know you” period MUST take place in order for two people to connect in an authentic manner with one another. Skip that step in the courtship process and you’re doomed to be disappointed.

Additionally, people connect with the sound of another’s voice, women in particular find the tone of a man’s voice to be very important. If he squeals in a high pitched tone, you’ll run. If he sounds a bit like Barry White and has a nice, deep, manly voice, you’ll be turned on. Do yourself a favor and find this out BEFORE you agree to sit across the table from the man for two hours.

Do: Give him your phone number and invite him to call you.

On The First Date: Do’s And Don’ts For Women


Don’t: Sleep with him!! Unless, of course, you want him to disappear the next day. I’ve had men tell me that women they meet online show up on the first date with an overnight bag packed. That’s absurd. Do you really think a guy is going to respect you as a woman and want to date you long term when you behave as if you’re worthless and give yourself away for free like that? No way. He’ll sleep with you and then poof, he’ll be gone in a week or two.

Do: Conduct yourself like a lady. Be funny, be smart, be kind, say thank you and be appreciative of his efforts. If you like him, an quick peck on the lips after dinner is acceptable. It’s also acceptable for you to say, “Gimmie a call sometime.” But that’s it. Don’t come off looking desperate or eager. A kiss on the lips and an invitation to call are all the “green” lights a man should need to proceed with a woman.

After The First Date: Do’s And Don’ts For Women


Don’t: Call him and chase him and pursue him. Don't stalk him or view his profile repeatedly. Don't focus on how often he's on the site and don't stay off the site just because you've had one date with a guy. Don't start revising your profile or taglines to send subliminal messages to a guy. Don't take your profile down, leave it up and stay active on it. If you begin to behave as desperate, too eager or too emotional, that's exactly what you'll look like to him. You'll look desperate and worse yet, bat shit crazy and he’ll run faster from you than you can say “bastard.”

Don’t always be available to him. Make him work for this and make him prove he’s genuinely interested in you. This is where you “qualify” the man. Is he genuinely interested or is he just looking to get laid from easy pickings? By hanging back and not always being available to him, you’re making him prove himself and his interest to you. And realize, many, many men will fall off and disappear on you after a first date when you do this. Expect it. But also have faith that you are weeding out the whack-a-doos and the men who are only half interested – the one’s that will sleep with you a couple of times before disappearing on you.

Do: Continue to date other men, keep your options open and respond to texts a couple hours later. Do return calls a few hours later or the next day. You want to look valuable to this man. And the only way to do that is to make him understand that you have a life and that others out there are demanding your time as well. Once a guy gets a whiff that you’re sitting at home by the phone, jumping on it when he calls and responding to texts two minutes later – he’ll begin to take you for granted. Being too available to men tends to invite bad behavior from them.

Accepting More Dates: Do’s And Don’ts For Women


Don’t: Accept last minute requests for dates from the man. Remember, how you behave from the moment you meet a man sets the tone for how the relationship will be from that point forward. If you make yourself too available to a man and accept short notice dates, you will be treated like that by him from that day forward. It will be like opening the door to him taking you for granted from that day on. Use the good ole “3 days rule” when accepting dates. If he doesn’t ask you 3 days in advance, you’re busy and you’ve already made plans. This will signal to him that if he wants your time and attention, he’s going to have to treat you with respect by scheduling dates in advance rather than taking you for granted that you’ll be there – waiting, willing and ready.

Do: Accept date invitations when they are requested 3 or more days in advance. If it’s Tuesday and he wants to see you on Friday, accept the date. If it’s Thursday evening and he wants to see you Friday night, don’t accept the date. But DO NOT tell him you need advance notice. Speak not with words, but with your actions. You simply say, “Gee, I’d love to. Unfortunately, I’ve already made plans. How about Sunday instead?” (3 days later.) Do that repeatedly and he’ll get the hint – he needs to respect you and your time and book time with you in advance if he wants to see you. Using the 3 day rule also paces the relationship. Because men like to rush (into bed) and then when they lose interest quickly afterwards, they don’t understand why. The reason is that the relationship was not paced and he has no time to miss you, long to be with you, or think about you constantly. Men equate longing with love, Ladies. Let them long for you and your time.

NOTE: If a man sticks around and is pursuing you as a genuinely interested man should, you can consider taking it to the next step and sleeping with him after the 7th or 9th date. No sooner or you may play your cards too soon and he may disappear unexpectedly on you. Make him prove he's interested before giving yourself (and your power) away to him.

Conduct Yourself In This Manner From That Point Forward


By not always being available and making him book time with you in advance, you are actually looking very desirable to a man and you’re also setting a nice slow pace – one that won’t overwhelm the man and have him disappearing – looking for air and room to breath – a month or two into it. Men like the chase, they like to compete and they enjoy a good challenge. It excites them and it keeps them interested. Give them what they want.

And realize, you're both dating online. He will date other women and you should date other men. That is, until one of three things has happened:

1.) You've exchanged I love you's
2.) You've agreed to be exclusive with one another
3.) Commitments have been made

If none of the above has taken place, both you and he are free to explore options. And you should take full advantage of that by continuing to do so. This will keep you emotionally healthy and keep you from obsessing over one man.

And again, I repeat, lots of men will disappear on you when you follow the above advice. But that’s actually a good thing, expect it to happen and do not be discouraged by it. You’re weeding your way through the crazies, the users, the players and the flakes. You’re watching out for yourself and you’re “qualifying” men as to whether or not their worth your time or effort. Any men who do not want to do any of the above with you – let them go. They would’ve only slept with you and then disappeared anyway. Don’t put yourself through that. Don’t put yourself out there to be used and dumped and hurt like that.

You’re the only one that can protect yourself in relationships. So do that and get comfortable with the fact that many men who may seem too good to be true – actually are. Realize that many men will not go through the efforts of proving themselves to you. And that’s fine, you’re okay with that, because those are the men not worth knowing anyway.

I recently read a study that stated that modern day women have to kiss approximately 75 frogs before finding their Prince Charming. Yes, 75, ladies. That’s the harsh reality of modern day dating and mating.

So if 74 frogs leap away from you – know that the 75th is on his way to you.

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361 Comments:

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wise owl said...

so much great advice-thankyou Mirror of Aphrodite- all the same for all age groups? I am a mature female internet dater and feel there are certain things an older dater needs to consider. I have already in my first 4 months learned the hard way. Ive now made a list of rules/boundaries based on your advice and stick to it. The info on phones/ txts really works!! You know why men contact me? I like your profile= you are different, and my best asset is my hair (no cleavage to speak of)so I make the best of it in photos and change my main profile pic every month. I always have my hair up when we meet, then I go to the restaurant rest rooms and return with it down to surprise him- one man almost fell off his chair and was beaming from ear to ear, another pulled out his phone and said may I take a pic of your hair!! I only search for compatible star signs and Im a numerologist, and have subtle methods for asking someones birthdate early on in our chats, so I have an added advantage in my screeing. If they are incompatible I dont bother continuing. THANKYOU.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Wise Owl,
Thank you very much for appreciating this information and finding it useful. Yes, I believe all of the above applies to any man at any age. However, if you'd like to add something based upon your experiences, please do so here in the comments and it's possible that I can update the piece to include your insights.

I have girlfriends of all ages and there's one in particular that's a great girlfriend and mentor regarding men. She's 68 years old and she reminds me of Judge Judy in her attitude and demeanor with men. She's very black and white, there are no gray areas with her, and she calls it like she sees it. She's a real spitfire, has never been married, and dates actively, although not online.

And you know what? She tosses men around - and they all chase her LOL. Metaphorically, picture this scene . . she immediately comes off snarky with them (attitude). They become intriqued by that. They pursue her and she baps them away, making it completely clear she's not looking for any commitments. They become even more intriqued and continue to purusue (competitive). She talks to them on the phone for months before agreeing to a date (qualifying them). They continue to pursue (need to win the prize). She goes on a date - and then bolts on them (makes them pursue to prove their interested). They give chase (must win). And this goes round and round and round for months - and they all blow up her phone and seek her out LOL. It's hilarious. She's not mean about it, but she gives them a real run for their money and they're all so baffled by her that they chase her and probably don't even know why LOL. It's the equivalent of picking a man up, body slamming him and then whacking him in the face with your handbag - and they eat it up for some reason. Honestly, it's amazing that they do this.

And she always says, "I swear, the worse you treat a guy, the more he likes you. It's the damndest thing. I don't want to do it, but they love it, they eat it up."

Cont . . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

And if you think about it, it's always the men you don't want to talk to, the one's you avoid, that are ringing your phone all the time. And the one's that you want to call you, the one's you're treating well - they're not calling. So there's definitely something to the "people always want what they can't have" theory, the law of scarcity.

I used to argue with her about that, about her treatment of them, but you know what? After witnessing this time and time again working, I'm now a converted believer LOL.

And by the time these guys actually get her out on a date - they're treating her like gold because they're so excited she finally agreed. And these are men in their late 60's behaving like this.

Now I'm not saying every woman should start out that extreme - she's got this down to a science and a well oiled process - there's an art to doing this without destroying your chances (or the man). However, playing hard to get and really making a man work for it - makes them appreciate it 3 times as much once they get it. And it also plays on the competitive nature in men, they like to "win." And try to win her they do.

Nice touch with the way you present your greatest asset to these men, too. It's a nice little surprise. Men like to be kept on their toes and a woman who can do that really intriques them.

On a different note. you're a numerologist? I wonder, have you seen this piece here:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2010/04/numerology-definitions-111-333-1111.html

Still, to this day, I see that combination of 111 or 1111 at least once daily. It's uncanny. And I believe I'm a life path number 9.

Have you ever considered writing? If you'd like to consider it, use the "contact" button at the top left of the site, above the logo, and contact me directly.

I know you've been following me here and commented on a lot of my pieces - I thank you for that and I thank you for your participation in this community. I think it's awesome to have a mature woman here conversing and participating with younger gals, sharing experiences, asking questions and joining in the community.

And I think it's great that you've grasped the concept of "qualifying" a man before you date him. It's a very necessary step for a woman when it comes to dating.

wise owl said...

dear Aphrodite,re my question about mature men mid 50s and over(does all this apply to them)- it seems many men (not just 1 or 2)I come into contact with on net dating have a big problem with me casually dating other men. They dont seem to comprehend that is why I am on here- to chat to and to go out and meet lots of men! In the olden days- when he was young, a man met one woman and there was no competition- he slowly got to know her and things were safe for him to persue in his own way and own time. But with internet dating there are so many available options- a woman is chatting online to perhaps a few or more at once, a coffee here, a movie there. I have found if I tell a man Im doing this (and I stress to him, there is no sex involved with the others) they get oh so possesive, and say- well I only chat to one at a time and date one at a time, and another said, well I certainly wont be out looking for somebody better! I have been dumped after 2 real wonderful dates as I had just met a new prospect I wanted to meet...To me this is coming from a position of FEAR and a complete lack of self esteem. I have even in the first few chats had men who ask how many contacts have you got/ are you seeing anyone else/ and some really nice men whose profiles I found appealing delete me when I tell them what Im doing.

I feel my intentions are misunderstood. Im genuinely searching for a life partner, but they are treating me like a floosy. Do I need to give reassurance? How can I teach them the new way of doing things? Ive learned from you I will not allow anyone to rule my love life, and I make the choices for me- I wont stand for possesive or controlling behaviour- am I being WAY TOO HONEST??? I am learning not to tell them so much about what Im doing. Yes I know what you are going to say- do they tell me what they are doing and the answer is YES...they only want 1 girl at a time and I feel they are hopelessly genuine.

This may also be a cultural thing- in Australia men have the attitude of if Im seeing you you dont go with anyone else anywhere...And mature men, who havnt dated for many years who are now divorced need to learn the new way of doing things. The internet is a whole new ball game, but they are still playing by their old rules.Some have been sitting at their computer for years and they have got nowhere doing their one at a time mentality!! I really believe this to be a mature age problem- younger people are growing up with social media, and are used to going out with others- older men are lost in the jungle.

Please mature ladies put your comments and suggestions on here if you have encountered this problem with your dating. HELP!!! peace to you, from wise owl.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Wise Owl,
I agree with you that their behavior stems from fear, lack of confidence and self esteem issues. Those are certainly present.

But do you know what I REALLY think this is? Because I've seen in it younger generations with men on the Internet, too.

They want you to make it EASY on them. And when they realize that YOU'RE choosing a man and you're not sitting back, waiting for a man to choose you - they realize that there's competition and that they're going to have to work at this. They become resentful of that. They become resentful that they have to compete with other men. They get irritated that they can't pluck you off the Net, put a stamp on ya' and lay claim to you. They're being lazy and they're used to things going their way.

And I think a lot of these men lie. I really do. Because I meet men who say, "Women get much more attention there." But then, much later, they turn around and confess that they've had sex with 6 of them. How they can claim they get no attention and/or only date one woman at a time, but then confess having sex with many of them, is beyond me.

So maybe it's more like this. Yes, they date one woman at a time - until they have sex with her. Then they disappear on her - and move onto the next one. I've met many men who tell me that many of the women they've met online - show up on the first date with an overnight bag. Sigh.

Regardless of what they blokes are up to, yes, I think you're being too honest with them. I'm not saying you should lie. I'm saying you should just keep some things private with them is all.

So when they pry for information, say something vague and don't elaborate on it, no matter how much they push. Because truthfully, a stranger has no right to your business anyway. Especially when they're only going to use what you tell them to judge you.

So when posed with this question, "Are you dating or seeing anyone else?" You respond with, "I've met some nice people, but I haven't found my Mr. Right yet." Or, "I've dated others, but I'm not committed to anyone." Or simply say, "I haven't found the one I'm looking for yet." All of those statements signal to the man that YOU are doing the picking here and that they are not permitted to be privy to your personal life.

Or you could get flat out with them and say, "I really don't share personal information like that until I get to know someone."

Each of those statements puts the reality of the situation in front of their face. And the reality is - you don't have to answer to them. They have no right to the information they're asking for.

Don't play your cards on the Net. Hold them close to your chest. And remember that you don't have to answer to any of them. They're asking personal questions way too early. They don't need to know any of that information until after about 6 dates or so. Because if a guy sticks around that long, and then he asks that question, it's because he's considering taking it to another level. So that's when he deserves that information.

These guys just expect everything to be so damn easy for them there. Like, "Oh cool. Look, it's like a grocery store for women. Hmm, I'll think I'll take this one. Bag her up, I'm ready to go."

Tsk tsk, fellas. Gotta' put a little effort into it these days. Women no longer NEED men for financial reasons or living conditions. Women have their own money, their own homes. These days, you really have to be a solid man for a woman to relinquish her independence and put up with your ass, LOL ;-)

And the one's who delete your/their profile and leave - good riddens. They're lazy men who just want to pluck a woman off the shelf and dump her in their kitchen because dinner is to be served promptly at 5PM.

Umm, no thank you, LOL.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror of Aphrodite,
I am a 38 year old man and would just like to say that I enjoyed reading your commentary with regards to online dating. I hope every woman is heeding advice of this nature. To be honest, I have made some of the classic blunders you describe. I subscribe more so to the old world and are struggling with many aspects of online dating ettiquette. I concur with many of the responses you suggest that come from men. It makes the prospect of having a meaningful conversation very difficult. I can appreciate that many of the ladies have become suspicious or a simply worn down from the rubbish they encounter. Thank you for creating a document, which gives me this insight and more of an opportunity to find a genuine lady.

Kind Regards,

Simon.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Simon,
Thank you! It's nice to see a man here agreeing and contributing his thoughts. Yes, navigating the online world of dating can be a challenge for men and women both and it's understandable that mistakes are to be made when getting a feel for how to approach it.

But the fact that you subscribe to the old world ways is actually to your benefit. Just use those ways and those old tried and true tactics to approach and communicate with women and you will find a nice one. Approach it the traditional way with conversation (emails first), telephone calls, courting (asking for dates), nice gestures (flowers and compliments), and showing interest (asking for more dates, calling and communicating regularly).

And I imagine it's the same for men - when approaching it in the ways referenced above, many women may disappear on you. If that happens, so be it, don't worry about those women, they wouldn't have made a good girlfriend anyway if they don't appreciate the efforts you're making on their behalf.

And it's SO NICE to see a man agreeing that the traditional ways of doing things is actually the way to go and actually the way a woman should behave and carry herself.

Keep your chin up, Simon . . . Miss Right is out there and you'll find her!

Anonymous said...

I met a guy online on a dating site. We exchanged few emails to get to know each other. His profile is good. His email responses were good.I asked him for his pic. He sent me two pics and one of them is a shirtless pic showing off his muscles. I was taken a back. It kinda creeped me. Isn't this disrespectful? Or am I over reacting? I didn't reply to him yet.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
I think it's inappropriate. I mean, you're strangers at this point - what's the message he's attempting to convey by doing that? It's like saying, "Hey, look at my body, don't you want my body?"

It's like saying, "This is what you're going to get."

I think it's inappropriate to be sending half nude pictures of yourself, man or woman, to a virtual stranger. If you get to know one another at a later point in time, then I can see it being okay.

But to act like that and come off like that right up front, when you're still strangers, making the focus your body or your muscles - it reeks of trolling the Internet for sex to me.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Let me correct this statement "I think it's inappropriate to be sending half nude pictures of yourself, man or woman, to a virtual stranger. If you get to know one another at a later point in time, then I can see it being okay."

I meant a shirtless muscle pic might be okay - but NEVER nude pics, LOL.

Anonymous said...

Mirror@ Dec18,2012, 5:13pm

LOL so you meant shirtless muscle pic okay? It creeped me out and I didnt feel comfortable. Isn't it the same logic-nude or half nude? We are strangers and he wants to impress me with his body!! I feel it is inappropriate and I am not going to respond to him. Is it an over reaction? His profile is good and his responses in our email conversation are good. May be he is good at writing. Lol.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
It is inappropriate. Like I said, if you'd been in a relationship with him and dating several months he sent a pic, "Hey, look at these guns" then you could laugh and it would be more acceptable. But he's an absolute stranger at this point and it's inappropriate. And no, you're not over reacting.

And yes, it does make women feel uncomfortable, which is why men should knock that crap off when dating online. If you were in a bar and a strange man approached you, ripped off his shirt, and stood there, half naked in front of you - you'd think he was a whacko. Well same goes for the online world. You don't just start showing your body off like that to complete strangers. It's odd and it's inappropriate.

And it signals he's got sex on his mind.

Anonymous said...

I tried online dating and was very unsuccessful. My friends told me I didn't have enough pictures online that actually demonstrated my personality. Personally, I just wasn't comfortable online. To be very honest, i felt like a loser!!! I understand that this is year 2013 but could you offer any other advice to meet smart, attractive and a good hearted man????

Anonymous said...

Hi!Mirror,

I posted my profile on an online dating site. Exchanged few emails with a guy. From his responses he comes across as a gentleman. I am a 38 year Taurean and he is a 42 year Leo. First time we met for coffee and talked for a couple of hours. During the conversation,when I told him I am learning skating, he offered to teach me and asked me out the next day for skating. I agreed. We went out for skating last night and had a good time. He behaved perfectly well though he had to hold me and my hands to ensure that I don't fall down.couple of people in the rink were commenting oh that's so sweet and he was telling them it is the first time for her on the ice rink. I found it rather sweet. After skating we went looking for a coffee shop and most of the restaurants/coffee shops were closed. It was 9.30pm in the night on sat day. While looking for coffee, he said may be I will take to my place and there are lot of good restaurants nearby. I said there is one coffee shop that is open here and lets go there. He agreed. We sat for half hour and talked about sports. 10pm that shop closed and we left. He drove me to my place and before leaving I thanked him and said it was fun tonight and he said call me sometime it would be good to talk again. He didn't ask me for another meeting. I would love to meet him again but I do not want to initiate at this early stage. Or should it be mutual? He asked me out two times and is he expecting me to do it this time? Appreciate an advice on how should I approach as I really like this guy. Sorry for the long post.

Anonymous said...

Contd..

I logged into the site today and found him online. I didn't message. But I am a little confused on this dating etiquette. Should I never initiate any contact in the beginning?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
No, I don't think it's ever a good idea for a woman to begin pursuing a man. Once you do that, they become lazy and it sets the tone from that day forward. You'll spend all your time trying to garner an ounce of his.

I'd wait two weeks for him to call/text. Now realize, he's dating online. So that means he's dating other women - always assume that because that's what they're there for and that IS what they're doing.

So don't start to feel insecure or feel like you have to remind him that you exist. He knows you exist and if he's genuinely interested, he'll come back and ask you out again - just like he did the first two times.

You see, what he's attempting to do here, by asking you to call him, is he's trying to make this easy for himself. Guys try real hard at first and then once they get a foot in the door, they attempt to swing the burden of carrying the relationship onto the woman - so they can sit back and cruise down easy street. And since he's dating online, he knows this and he knows that many insecure women - fall for that crap.

It works to their advantage because then they get all these chics chasing them around - that they STRING ALONG as Plan B's in their rotation of women.

Don't fall for that and don't set yourself up as one of his Plan B's. If you do, you're going to look like all the other women out there he's dealing with right now.

What you want to do is - you want to APPEAR DIFFERENT than all those insecure chics that fall for the manipulation game to make things easy on this guy.

And you have to realize, too, that when men do stuff like that - they're testing you. They're testing to see if you're one of those insecure women that will bend over backwards for them. And many, if they find out you are, they'll start dating you, sleep with you, then disappear on you.

I'd suggest holding out for two weeks. If you don't hear from him by then, you can always try to send a "how are you" text - two weeks from now. But that's it, only one text, no more (which honestly, I don't even suggest doing).

The thing is, no matter how much you like this guy and how great he appears to be, you need to find out his level of interest. Is he genuinely interested or only half interested?

And the only way to do that - is to let him pursue you.

If he's genuinely interested, he'll certainly be back. If he's only half interested, he won't - and you will have saved yourself from possibly having the wool pulled over your eyes and being used here.

These men who date online are very savvy at the game, dear. I don't care how nice they come across. They're on these sites pulling stunts right and left and you need to filter out the one's that are genuinely interested from the one's that are only interested in sweet talking and charming their way into your pants.

And again, the only way to know - is to see if he'll pursue you.

And with him saying, "Call me sometime, It'd be nice to talk" - that would signal to me that he's about to place me in his rotation as a Plan B while he continues his search for "the one." It's like saying, "Yea, if you want me, you know where to find me."

And the women who go find those men that do that - get screwed - literally.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

I should add that in the meantime, your dating life doesn't stop simply because you've met this one guy. You're dating online too, just as he is, and my suggestion to you . . . is to continue doing so.

Don't stop living and sit around waiting for a guy to come to his senses.

Anonymous said...

Mirror @Jan6,2013

Thanks so much Mirror. I will sit tight and date other men. My life doesn't revolve around any guy. In two weeks if I don't hear from him I should get my message that he is not interested then why bother texting him after 2 weeks.

I would appreciate your response on how to handle this - suppose he contacts again after few days and says he didn't hear from me or something to that effect-how does one handle this without saying it applies to you as well!

Anonymous said...

contd..

I searched for him on FB. I didn't send him a friend request or anything like that. But now I feel I shouldn't have done that either. Because sometimes FB suggests friends you may know and I don't want to appear on this list for him! I shouldn't have done that.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Yea, Facebook does that so just don't do it again is all.

". . .suppose he contacts again after few days and says he didn't hear from me or something to that effect-how does one handle this without saying it applies to you as well!"

You take a cue from men - and you do what THEY do in those situations. You say, "Hey, it's great to hear from you! I'm sorry, I've just been so busy. I had a few things pop up unexpectedly. And it's funny, I was just going to contact you today - but here you are, LOL!"

And that's it. Nothing more. He's not your boyfriend, husband or lover - you don't have to answer to him (it's none of his business).

And when women pose those questions to men, they get the same generic answer - which by the way - men feel women should accept.

I say - what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

You apologize for not calling. You acknowledge that you intended to call. You provide a generic excuse (as men do in these situations). And you show that you're pleased to hear from him.

And if he asks you out on a third date - before he even gets the chance when the time is near that the date is ending - you end it by saying, "Call me, I'd love to do this again sometime."

And if you hear from him again in the next couple of weeks, but he's only speaking to you and not asking for a date - that's a big red flag that he's "plan B'd" you.

So don't feel the need to try harder to win his attention, just let him go because that indicates he's only half interested and the only thing he IS interested in - is keeping you in his rotation.

Anonymous said...

Wow you are amazing Mirror. Thanks for the advice. I would have accepted 3rd date immediately if I hadn't read this! He is more of calling guy than texting. So may be I should let the call go to voice mail when he calls and I should return the call after a couple of hours..LOL or am i being too mean?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Yep, you're getting it now ;-)

Don't come off too eager. Men read A LOT into that type of behavior from women and all it does is set the woman up - to become a perfect victim.

People can only use you - if you permit yourself to be used.

You do exactly as you're thinking here. When he calls, you let the call go to voicemail and you return it a hour or two later. That way, he knows you're not sitting at home, waiting for him to call and jumping on the phone, sounding out of breath LOL - because he finally called.

This is "the game" honey. Women don't wanna play it, but men insist on it. And believe you me - he's testing you right now.

You can EXPECT a man to pull back in the early days of a budding relationship. That's how they find out if the woman is:

1) Crazy
2) Psycho
3) Emotionally unstable
4) Needy and clingy
5) OR - Strong, independent and confident

And you want to be #5 there, LOL.

Men are very competitive and they like a good challenge. It excites them. So why not give them what they want ;-)

And if you don't believe that this shit is a test, read this below, written by a self-proclaimed player:

http://emmyboy.hubpages.com/hub/how-to-play-mind-games-on-women

And this is what HE says about the "disappearing" and not calling game that men play:

"Don’t go panicky girlfriend, just look at everything in perspective. Look at it this way. Maybe he is trying to see how much you needed him or how much you will miss him if he is no longer there.

And your behavior now might make things either worse or better for you. Only that you just don’t know which is which.

Hence my advice is never to panic or over react. Keep your head to avoid sending the wrong message.

I am just testing you to see how suspicious you can get. I am just interested in knowing your depth of your interest and commitment in the whole relationship."

So don't panic and begin feeling insecure. Instead, show him how it's done, LOL.

If he wants to play the game - you be the coach.

Anonymous said...

LOL perfect dear Mirror. I shall play this game ;)Thanks a ton for this advice.

Anonymous said...

Mirror @ Jan 6,2013, 3:09PM

It's me again. Unfortunately, I have not dated many men and wanted to understand few points:

1. In the beginning of dating, how often one should expect a guy to ask you out? The reason I am asking this is, we had two really good dates and then I haven't heard from him. It has been only two days since the last date but I am just wondering what are a guy's timelines? If he is testing me, then how long would he wait before contacting me again? If he comes back after 2 or 3 weeks, I may not be interested at all..LOL.

2. I continue to log in to that dating site and few times both of us happened to be on the site at the same time. I don't know whether it is a coincidence or he is stalking me :) because every time i login, after sometime i find him online. I never bothered to ping him nor did he. Infact we never chatted online till now. Exchanged few emails and then he spoke to me and we met. My question is, if and when this guy contacts me again and asks me how many guys I dated what should be my response? I noticed that guys you meet on dating sites always ask you on how you are finding this dating site / meeting guys etc

3. What should be my cues to understand whether a guy is genuinely interested in me. Because last two times we met, he was keen to understand about my parents, siblings etc. What should be the minimum time I should spend with a guy to know he really is serious about me-1month/2months/3months?

Appreciate your response. Thanks

Anonymous said...

Mirror,

Happy New Year! I’ve thought about the online dating again… I attempted it a year ago when I broke up with my boyfriend, just to put myself back on the market, so to speak and start dating again. (I realized pretty quickly that I just wasn’t ready because I compared every man to him, so I took myself off.)

Anyway, what I learned through that experience is - I’d rather call the man so I that I can block my phone number. I really believe they are being respectful and not lazy because most even mentioned it – “Hey here’s my phone number if you what to chat when you feel like it’s ok.” (Meaning, “safe”, as I took it.) And I do feel it’s more discreet and safer for me to have their number, rather than mine. Don’t you feel it’s ok to call them if you explain it this way?

Also, if I do it again, there are only a handful of men that I really want to talk to, after viewing/searching profiles. I would like to hide my profile and contact them (so I don’t get a bunch of emails, like before, with people I really don’t want to talk to). Second, I live in a fairly small town where people know each other. I’d rather not have my “face” out there and all what I’m looking for, etc. I know this is not real nice, but my girlfriends and I used to joke and say, “Hey, saw so and so and this is what he’s saying on there... God, did you see that picture he took of himself in the mirror?” (So, having been on the other end, I really don’t want the same things said around town about me- lol.) Is there a way to contact men without looking like I’m chasing them?

Third, I’d rather meet asap to see if there is any connection and there is attraction. I’ve had many good conversations, but when finally face to face, there just wasn’t a spark. I think men feel the same and my male friends have mentioned this as well: “I really don’t want to take a lot of time emailing because if there isn’t an attraction – I’ve just wasted two weeks…” Generally, we email a few times. Then, talk on the phone. Then, arrange to meet. Usually this is over the course of one week. I’ve never had a bad experience so far and always asked out again. I just wasn’t ready to date the last time…

Your thoughts?


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 6, 3:09PM,
"In the beginning of dating, how often one should expect a guy to ask you out?"

There's no set time frame, however, I think once every two weeks is acceptable.

"I am just wondering what are a guy's timelines?"

When they're dating online, the time frames can be longer because they're also dating other women as well.

"If he is testing me, then how long would he wait before contacting me again?"

It's usually within two weeks. And if you're no longer interested at that time, then so be it.

"If and when this guy contacts me again and asks me how many guys I dated what should be my response?"

It's really none of his business. So you give a generic, vague answer. Something to the effect of, "I've dated a few. But none of them were the one."

"What should be my cues to understand whether a guy is genuinely interested in me?"

They pursue you.

"What should be the minimum time I should spend with a guy to know he really is serious about me?"

After HE has initiated about 8 or 9 dates and continues to pursue you. And that can be anywhere from two to three months.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan. 7, 10:38PM,
"Don’t you feel it’s ok to call them if you explain it this way?"

No, I don't. It goes completely against natural gender roles - man leads, woman submits. And it also places the woman at a disadvantage from day one. It sets her up as the pursuer and she's the one doing all of the work to get the relationship off the ground.

Most of those services offer a "call" feature. Meaning, they offer a feature where you can let a man call you, without you providing him directly with your number.

If you're uncomfortable giving out your number, I suggest using an online dating site with that feature - such as Match.com.

"I would like to hide my profile and contact them (so I don’t get a bunch of emails, like before, with people I really don’t want to talk to)."

I wouldn't advise that because studies have shown that a man that picks you has a MUCH higher liklihood of entering into a long term relationship with you. Also, this is again placing you in the dominant role, that of the man, and flipping the natural gender role that Mother Nature insists on - man leads, woman submits.

"Is there a way to contact men without looking like I’m chasing them?"

No. Once a woman begins to pursue a man by initiating contact, he views her as needy and desperate and he tends to begin to take advantage of her by assuming she's desperate for male attention and that's why she's doing the pursuing.

"I’d rather meet asap to see if there is any connection and there is attraction."

Not a good thing to do as it will most likely lead to the man not being interested due to the fact that there's nothing taking place prior to the meetup to kick up his interest - i.e. conversation.

"“I really don’t want to take a lot of time emailing because if there isn’t an attraction – I’ve just wasted two weeks…”

It only takes two or three days to exchange two or three emails. And then after those first few exchanges, you use that "call" feature and invite the man to telephone you.

"Generally, we email a few times. Then, talk on the phone. Then, arrange to meet. Usually this is over the course of one week."

That seems acceptable to me, as long as he's the one doing all of the pursuing, calling and asking for dates.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for responding Jan. 8 @ 9:09.

Uggh. I feel like I'm on display for the whole world to see when I'm on a dating site. It's embarrassing to me. People who aren't even paying can search for free and view what you have to say. Plus, I've had people contact me the last few months (from being on there before) and I've lied and said that "I'm dating someone right now."

Could I contact a man and just say that I've been given a three day trial and I just wanted to say hello and tell them I enjoyed reading their profile?

If youu don't think I should do that, I've thought about just posting pictures and stating something like,
"I have some misgivings about meeting someone through this type of medium, but I consider myself open-minded and it’s a new year… so perhaps it’s time for me to get with the program. I consider myself a private person and would love to chat by e-mail, so I did not disclose my life story online. I am looking forward to my conversation with you.."

Anonymous said...

Mirror @ Jan8,2013 8.53AM

Thank you so much mirror for responding to my queries.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Well I'm not quite sure where the embarrassment stems from. I mean, what are you revealing online that someone can make fun of? Probably nothing. So they poke fun at a picture - well you can do that on Facebook, too. Or they poke fun at a statement - they can do that on Facebook, too. Hell, they can do that in real life.

You don't have to share a life story in an online dating profile. As a matter of fact, I don't recommend that at all. The only items to be included in an online profile are:

1) Nice, happy images of yourself
2) Your interests

That's really it. And both of those things are anything that anyone can poke fun at in real life.

And if folks are poking fun at you for dating online, then they're living in the past. The days where there was stigma attached to it. And honestly, going about this the way you are, I think you're missing out on the benefits of it, BIG TIME.

There are doctors, lawyers, corporate men, career professionals, small business owners, scientists, marketers - there are TONS of professional men there doing the same thing you're doing. I don't really understand what there is to poke fun at and I think by hiding your profile, you're missing out on many of those men finding you, approaching you and asking you on dates.

Additionally, when someone is very uncomfortable with online dating and hides their profile or pics, etc. - I've had many people say they pay absolutely no attention whatsoever to those individuals - because that's what the married folks and those with something to hide do on those sites. So right off the bat, it throws someone's suspicious eye at you and they wonder, "What is she hiding from?"

If you'd like to let your pics and profile be visible and use the short profile you referenced above, feel free. I see nothing wrong with it and I don't see anything there to be embarrassed about or make fun of.

Step outside your self-imposed prison, honey, and show your face to the world.

Stand proud, strong and confident. Don't cave to the idle ramblings of small minded people.

Troubled Aquarius said...

Dear Mirror, I found your blog after several months into Internet dating and yours is by far the most helpful one. Thank you for these wonderful insights!

I have met this really cute guy about one and half month ago and been on three dates (we have been exchanging emails since October). I’m a bit puzzled about whether he is a good guy or not because I have mixed feelings.

The good things:
1. He has come to my city (around 40 min drive from his) to see me and paid for all of the three dates.
2. He texted me his travel plans/whereabouts ahead of time (business and personal travel etc). He is a financial analyst and flies frequently to different parts of the world on business trips.
3. Unlike some other guys who liked to press for intimacy in the very beginning, he acted like a gentleman and so far we have only hugged and pecked on the cheeks because we were both getting over a cold LOL.
4. He expressed interest in seeing me again during our last date.
5. He responded to my emails/texts in a timely manner, usually within 20min to an hour.

The red flags:
1. He texted / emailed me every 3-4 days but did not call me often.
2. I called him twice. Both are on weekend nights and both calls went to his voice mail. For call one, he text me back 10 min later that he’s at his company’s holiday party and called me the next morning. For call two, he called back 5 min later that he’s been cooking. From what I can tell, he is not good talking on the phone—awkward silence LOL--but what if he needs to hear the voicemails to see which girl is calling?
3. He did not ask me a lot of personal questions nor did he tell me that much about him. I did not gush my info/feelings either (thanks to your suggestions!). Instead, we kept the conversation on general topics like international politics, history, and a lot of other inpersonal, light subjects.
4. His online dating profile is still up there. It said that he stopped subscribing to it a while ago but encourages visitors to email him based on a riddle of the real address hidden in his profile.
5. He took many more bathroom breaks than I did.

From your blogs, I can tell that he and I are still testing waters. I should still keep my options open and act as careless with him/no initiation of dates/contacts etc. So is that it? Should I wait till Valentine's day to see if he is really into me/to see if he would invite me to his birthday party? If not, then totally cut him off? Btw, we are of the same astrological sign—but does this matter?

Thank you so much!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Troubled Aquarius,
Well, I've seen much worse red flags, LOL ;-)

The general vibe that I'm getting here is that he's pacing things out, taking it slow, casually dating you - and probably casually dating others as well.

Now I realize that isn't what you'd like to hear, but honestly, at this stage, it's perfectly acceptable. And this is perfectly acceptable for you to do as well. There are no commitments here and, as a result, each is free to continue exploring their options.

The good thing that I see here is, overall, it appears that there's a continued interest. I realize you'd like to speak on the phone with him and I agree that men need to bring this back into their dating mix (I'm so sick of texts, they amount to a two sentence email in my opinion.) However, right now, the fact that he's maintaining a continued interest is good enough, it's a good sign.

It's also a good sign that he's not attempting to "fast track" you into the bedroom, it's a good sign that he's a gentlemen when he's with you and he's treating you well, it's a good sign that he's coming to you and not requesting that you go to him and honestly, I think it's actually a good sign that he's keeping the conversation a bit generic.

That tells me that he's not trying to bullshit you or charm you - he's keeping it real and making small talk and normal conversation.

The only two I see that are a tad concerning (but still not concerning enough to be worried about at this point) are the bathroom breaks and the profile with the cryptic email address in it.

The bathroom breaks could be nerves or something like that, however, if your gut is telling you that he's going there to text someone outside of your view - that would be something to pay attention to then.

And the profile online with contact information in it tells me he's still open to dating other women. But that's okay because you should be open to dating other men right now, too. If things heat up in the future and/or he asks for a commitment - then that becomes a bigger concern.

"Should I wait till Valentine's day to see if he is really into me/to see if he would invite me to his birthday party? If not, then totally cut him off?"

I wouldn't let things hinge on a Valentines day issue here or a birthday party invitation. I wouldn't cut him off for excluding me from either at this point. If he asked you for a commitment and then did that, then yes, I'd be upset. But at this point, he hasn't asked you to be his girlfriend so you can't expect to be included in such things as a girlfriend would be, it's too early for that.

I usually wait for about 18 to 24 dates before making a decision to cut a man off. (About 6 months if you're seeing each other 3-4 times a month). So at the rate you're dating him, that would be about 9 - 10 months before making a decision like that.

If you go on that many dates with a man and he isn't expressing feelings for you or asking for exclusivity yet - then he's never going to. And that's when you move on.

And until there are feelings expressed or exclusivity requests, I believe it's perfectly acceptable to casually (no sex) date others.

Troubled Aquarius said...

Dear Mirror,

Thank you so much for your detailed answer, which helps a lot. I have been reading your blog entry re. the Disappearing/Reappearing & NC entry these days and could not help laughing with and thinking along with the wonderful suggestions.

I fully understand, from your perspective, that I should be exploring my options and waiting for him to make the initiatives. What confuses me occasionally is that, should I also use some of the NC on this guy?

The reason is that, although there was no expressed feelings/exclusivity requests, I feel that he is withdrawing gradually over the time. For example, during our early communication stage, he would write long emails about his travel and even take pictures of the international destinations as attachments. Then, it moves to multiple text messages daily. Then, it started to decline to short/simple “hi”s or me initiating some communication with him either via text or email (but mine are occasionally and less than his initiations). The reason is that I feel at this stage, even if we are both testing waters, I cannot let him initiating ALL of the communication, right?

What bothers me is: He told me once after I called him that he enjoyed talking with me and thanked me for calling him and would call me later. But he did not. Then when I told him that I will be meeting some friends in his city and was wondering if we could meet before his last business trip, he told me that he was feeling sick and need to be at a friend’s party that day and wasn’t sure if he could meet up and that he would call me if he had time. He did not call either. Is this what a “casual dater” is supposed to do?

Throughout the whole trip, he only emailed me a piece of news article and exchanged 2 impersonal comments with me (3 words or less). Then when he is back, instead of texting me on my cell, he just sent a one sentence email to me this morning saying “how are you doing.”

This is what made me a little upset and I am seriously thinking about doing some NC re. this. Maybe, wait for about 3-7 days, just reply a hi back or been busy, let’s catch up soon and TTYL email to him.

Am I pushing too much/paying attention too much at this stage since we are nonexclusive and there’s no commitment at all or should I just keep on ignoring him till he texts me or calls me to make a further move? I have offered to visit him before the trip and he even did not meet me or call me, should I wait and see if he would offer to visit me for the fourth time? Hmm, the sign of "continued interest" is elusive to me.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Troubled Aquarius,
"should I also use some of the NC on this guy?"

Yes. Unfortunately, when a woman makes herself too available to a man, it invites poor treatment. The man doesn't value her (because he didn't have to fight for her attention) and he begins to take her for granted - that she'll always be there, no matter how ignorant he is.

"I cannot let him initiating ALL of the communication, right?"

Yes, you should be letting him initiate all of the communications at this point. That's how you gauge and/keep a man's interest. If he's genuinely interested, he will seek you out. If he's not, he won't. And the only way you know this is if you stop carrying the weight of a struggling relationship on your shoulders - and dump it on his lap ;-)

"Is this what a “casual dater” is supposed to do?"

A woman should NEVER ask a man on a date - EVER. It takes the natural order of things - man leads, woman submits - and it topples them. When the woman becomes the aggressor and takes on the man's role, men tend to be turned off by that and they run and/or pull back.

If you've ever watched "Millionaire MatchMaker" - one of the things she ALWAYS tells the men is, "You be a man and you ask her for the dates." She always also says, "No sex until monogamy." And when she meets a woman who is playing the man's role in dating, she says, "We need to whack off your penis." Because when a woman takes the lead role - she's exhibiting masculine energy - and unless the man is bi-sexual or homosexual - he will NOT be ATTRACTED to masculine energy.

"Am I pushing too much/paying attention too much at this stage since we are nonexclusive and there’s no commitment at all or should I just keep on ignoring him till he texts me or calls me to make a further move?"

If you want to know if he's genuinely interested, pull back. If he is, he will seek you out. If he isn't, he won't.

"I have offered to visit him before the trip and he even did not meet me or call me."

Do not pursue a man and do not take the lead role by initiating communication or asking for dates. Men view this behavior from women as desperate and it turns them off, in addition to the reasons I've listed above about a woman exerting masculine energy.

"should I wait and see if he would offer to visit me for the fourth time?"

Yes. If he's genuinely interested, he will. If he's looking for something easy and he's only half interested, he won't.

And then you'll know.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,

I'm the same anonymous that posted about Mr. flaky guy yesterday. Anyway, I have a pretty specific situation that isn't geared towards any man in particular but I'm still wondering what to do as far as NC or showing interest.

I am a black woman who is mostly attracted to white men. I don't know why, I guess it's just my preference and what feels most right to me.

That being said, I've been dating online for a few months now and I've noticed that a lot of white men will not make the initial contact even if they're attracted to me because they assume that black women aren't interested in white men. This leads me to believe that I need to initially show interest to show them that this isn't the case. Now, I know that men with racial hang-ups or men who are genuinely just not interested in black women will weed themselves out, but how do I go about showing that I'm initially interested without being the aggressor to the men who are open minded but just didn't think that they would have a chance with a woman of a different race?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Well it depends on which site you're using. A site like Match.com will permit "winks." That site also shows men who "has viewed" their profile and it also has an area of ethnicity with regards to the man's preferences, in which case, it will be mentioned there what his ethnic preferences are so you'll know if he's open to it or not.

If that's the case, a simple viewing of the man's profile will put your face in front of his. As will a "wink."

But I'd leave it at that. I really wouldn't do a direct contact and be the first one to initiate communication.

Anonymous said...

MOA,

Thanks for your advice! Under careful consideration and after reading "things all women should have" I've decided to take a break for a while and get to know myself a little more before jumping back into the dating scene. I'm recently separated (although emotionally separated for years) and have some things to get together before inviting another person into my life. I will definitely continue to read your posts though. You're a gift! Hopefully your principles will be second nature to me by the time I'm ready to really start looking. :) Heck, I still need to get that little black dress!

Anonymous said...

When I first started talking to my Libra man, it was online, and constant flirting. Now after we met, and had a date, I don't get those types of flirtaous comment's like I did. Though I do hear from him, it's not as often or fun. What's up with that?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
He may only be half interested, sweetie :-( And I imagine he's dating other women as well and keeping his options open.

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror,

I am new to online dating and so far I have only met one guy that I thought might be worthwhile. We've exchanged several emails for the past two weeks and he asked me if I would be open to meet sometime, I said yes as he seems to be a decent and honest guy. Because of his work he requires shift work being away for 2 weeks and back home for 7 days.  He has been back since last Wednesday and I thought he would be asking me out for a date, but all he said was that he was busy this Sunday and he asked me what my schedule was like, so I replied and explained that I could probably meet sometime for lunch or coffee next week except for Wednesday. I got a reply two days after and all he said was " with two busy schedules and trying to meet for the first time it creates a few hurdles, I would like to meet you and I’m sure we can figure it out if you’re game". I didn't like his reply at all, first of all he should be asking me to meet on a specific day and not just telling me when he is busy, second what the h... Is that mean when he says "if you are game". There is something really wrong with this picture and I am really disappointed. I don't plan to reply anytime soon, but I really don't know what to say, at this point I don't feel like meeting with him at all!

Anonymous said...

I should mention that he said he wanted to meet me the week he was going to be in town so I don't understand why all of a sudden he isn't trying to get together. I told him we could try to meet next week and he just came back with an I'm sorry it looks like we will have to wait before we can meet.... What is that all about? I'm confused!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Don't be confused. He's, most likely, a player juggling many different "situations." You're better off dear...he wasn't behaving as a genuinely interested man :-(

Accept it and be thankful you didn't get sucked into his web..you've most likely just dodged a bullet here. Forget about him, don't accept his calls, don't respond to his texts and simply move on.

Anonymous said...

Your advice to let the guy do all the calling came too late for me. I met a guy online and the first coffee date was great. I was letting him do all the texting. He asked me out again. I think I made a mistake by starting to text him first. He thanked me the first time and said it makes him feel that I like him. We had another date things going well. Should I stop and wait for him to text going forward. I did it for several days. Hope its not too late.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Yes, I would stop initiating contact with him and I would wait to see if he comes to you. A genuinely interested man will seek you out. He will want to talk to you, he will make time for you and he will ask to see you - ask you on dates.

The only way to know if a man is genuinely interested or not is to see if he pursues you and makes repeated attempts to see/talk to you. And the only way he can do that is if you pull back and let him.

Anonymous said...

I have been following the discussions till now and am wondering if you would put a duration/upper limit to the time here: How long should you play this NC game with a guy after the first exchange of email/meeting? 6 months? 1 year? It seems that women have more trouble separating their emotion from the player guys than the other way round. Also, they tend to assign too much meeting/feelings to the little messages back to the guys. Even if they don't appear to be desperate in front of the guys, who knows how much disturbed / disrupted their schedules / innerworlds would be?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
No contact is not discussed in this piece, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. No contact is a completely separate tactic from simply playing hard to get. No contact is usually done for specific reasons and usually a period of 30 days.

Playing hard to get is an entirely different thing. And with most things regarding playing hard to get referred to in this article, I've listed time suggestions (i.e. "several days" refers to 3 or 4, a "couple" of days refers to 2, etc.)

"How long should you play this NC game with a guy after the first exchange of email/meeting? 6 months? 1 year?"

Well, as I've said, no contact doesn't apply here. It's an entirely different thing that is done for very specific reasons:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/dating-when-why-how-use-no-contact-rule.html

What I'm referring to in this piece is considered good ole' fashioned "playing hard to get." And I wouldn't put a time duration on it because each and every relationship is different. The only time I would cease playing hard to get and begin to make myself more available to the man is if he asks me to enter into a committed relationship with him.

Because anything up until that point is simply considered dating. I believe a woman should play hard to get throughout the dating/courtship process - so that the man has a high desire to make her commit - to him.

If you're always available to a man, he doesn't need to ask for a commitment - because you're always there anyway, so he takes you for granted. (i.e. he's not worried you may disappear or take off with another man.)

However, if you play hard to get, a genuinely interested man will wish to make you more available to him and he will want to take you "off the market" so-to-speak. Thus asking you for a commitment in order to make that happen ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks Mirror for your timely reply. Sorry for the confusion but I was thinking about online dating scenarios. I was actually asking about the e maintenance guy scenario. For example, a guy has been on and off exchanging email and text messages with you over a long time with very few occasional requests for meetings, but most are not on the weekends or when he happened to be near you. Basically, he is not like those guys who "pursue" you wholeheartedly. Instead, he somewhat maintains a distance by restraining most of the communication at the email/text messages. When you text/email him, he usually replies on time and to the latest, the next morning to your evening message. As for the email/text messages, in the very beginning, they were long and well written. Nowadays, they are reduced to several words or sentences or just some pictures snapped out of smartphones. I mirrored his length of communication and also reduced the amount of words but over the time I become dissatisfied with the level of communication like this. This makes me wonder if all folks doing online dating would have many options and I am also one of them. I can appear very nonattached and cool in front of the guy but every time I replied his message/email, I feel the butterfly and get nervous when he stops sending me emails/messages after a steady exchange after a couple of days. Should I put a time seal on interacting with this guy? I feel a little weird confronting him where this is going and don’t want to appear desperate either. I later learnt that this is called “e maintenance,” which many guys, especially popular/hot ones who do online dating, like to do to keep a bunch of women around him. Any hope to stand out among others or how much longer should I let this type of ambiguity last? 6 months/one year since the first email exchange or also keeping him as one of my options while dating other guys?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
I wouldn't focus all of my attention on him. He sounds like he's keeping his options open and actively dating others.

If I were you, I'd do the same. And I would cease responding to all of his communications...choosing to respond to only the ones that deserve a response. I'd ignore pictures, statements that aren't questions, etc.

And I'd start dating other men. He sounds like a serial dater whose caught up in the "grass is greener" effect that all the options on the Internet provides.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Mirror! I did ignore his emails that did not deserve a reply. He finally wrote me a long email saying that he was battling a cold and feeling awful, etc and he also asked how I am doing. Should I give him a timely with some nice words or just ignore him for a couple of days saying that I've been busy but good luck?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
You can respond if you like....in several days LOL. Keep it short and sweet. He doesn't deserve lots of your attention yet or your sympathy.

Ignore his illness, answer his questions, be brief, not overly eager and keep it casual...and send it this weekend, say sunday morning ;-)

Anonymous said...

@Mirror, oh how I wish that I saw your post before responding to him with some nice words yesterday. Anyhow my reply ended with me wishing him good luck staying alive, LOL. He has not written back and it's been a long wait. The problem, mirror, I found with online dating is that you would be flooded with many options but after several months, at least for me, I ended up thinking about one guy all the time and giving others up. This then leads to this kind of waiting anxiety cycle, which is not so healthy. How I wish that I could get back to the sites with a new profile some day... otherwise, I already cannot help writing to him again asking if he is really alive... LOL

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror, I really enjoy your blog! I wonder what you make of this one: I met a guy online, 45 bachelor, very handsome - and a player. I spotted his true colours since date 1, but consciously thought "what the heck..let's go for it and live life to the full". As you can imagine I ended up developing feelings for him against my will and better judgement! Anyway we dated casually for 2/3 months but are no longer in touch. It was becoming apparent that his interest was dwindling, so when he went off the radar I never tried to contact him again. What bothers me is this: every time we were about to have sex he would disappear to the bathroom. And a few times he actually took advantage of a "pause" we were taking to go... He's a health/yoga/sports freak... Could it have been drugs? The behaviour was so odd and obviously related to sex that I took advantage of one of his bathroom moments to scan the room for hidden cameras...in case he was somewhere pushing buttons! Have you ever heard of something similar???

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Yep, I've had women encounter this before. I'd be less apt to suspect cameras (although it does happen) and more apt to suspect:

1) Performance issues (so he was "fluffing" himself LOL)

2) Possible drug use that could range from Viagara to snorting cocaine and/or heroin. (Lots of guys use cocaine as a stimulant for sex and there's also an effect known as the "heroin hard on." Heroin makes sex last longer for many men but it's easy to spot a heroin addict if you know what to look for 1) nodding off 2) one eyelid drops lower than the other, which is often referred to as "pie eyed," 3) constant disappearances without explanation. 4) elusive behavior in and out of the bedroom.)

3) He may have been communicating (texting) someone

4) He may have been practicing some sort of sexual longevity exercises (since he's into yoga, etc.)

5) He could just have a bladder problem, LOL

It could be anything but yea, it's related to sex for sure.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, good answer...and it gave some food for thought-as well as helping me join a few more dots. In hindsight I think it must have been drugs as that could explain a pie-eye and the odd habit of muttering to himself (repeating a sentence he had just spoken in a normal-louder voice); elusive behaviour and shadiness...and difficulty to "get it up" in the morning (which from what a doctor friend of mine tells me is a poor health indicator for men). What a shame, he could be an absolutely stunning man!

Overall this experience strengthens my resolve to take things slowly (more so with online dating) and really gather as much info as I can before having sex with a man! I'm so glad I never pursued him when he disappeared...even if I was dying to see him.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, me again. :) Thanks for taking the time to answer all my clueless dating questions. They just keep on coming.

I'm talking to this 29 year old Cancer guy on an online dating site. He is very direct about his interest, and asked me out. If it weren't for you suggesting I pay more attention to a guy's willingness to please and his level of interest - I would have ignored this one (though he is cute).

He lives on the island, so it's about a 1-2 hour ferry ride away. I actually don't really mind this, since I'm too busy with other things to see a guy during the week.

So, part of our recent message:

Cancer Guy: [...] how about at least giving me a date and we go from there?
Me: Hmm that would depend on what we are doing. I don't do coffee dates.
Cancer Guy: :) well then let's do something awesome that you actually will get excited for!

Can I ask him to come up with 3 activities, and then I choose one? (Slightly worried if he chooses what to do, I might not like it.) Or should I come up with what to do and tell him?

After going on a "date" with the Aries man who didn't even offer to pay for coffee, I want to avoid making the same mistake. (Just realized I should have re-read this article beforehand. Doh.)

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Cont...

Or would something like this work: "Okay let's see how well you've paid attention...come up with 3 things to do and if I like one of them, then we can go on that date. ;)"

If he has actually read through my profile - he could probably come up with many dates that I'd enjoy.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
I like the playful approach. Suggest that he toss something out into the ring and see what he comes up with - it'll compel him to put a bit of thought into you ;-)

Anonymous said...

Wow, he replied: "It's your city!! Just pick whatever you like and we can do it."

Sounds like he's losing his patience, lol!

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Hello, thanks for your useful blog! I know that playing 'hard to get' works, but sometimes it is difficult to know exactly what hard to get constitutes, which is why this site is so great. I did have one specific question though, and it relates to the initail emails that are sent back on forth before any numbers are given out or meeting up is suggested. I always let the guy make the initial email contact, but does it matter how long you wait before replying? I mean I obviously wouldn't reply immediately, but is it ok to reply when you log on again and see the message, say a couple hours later, or should you be making them wait longer (say a day or so) before your reply. Sometimes they can see that you are online but you haven't replied. Are there any helpful rules about this, or does it not really matter?
Thanks!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
I think as a general rule, a response within 24 hours is completely acceptable, regardless of when you log on.

If you jump on it, men sense "desperate" - so refrain from giving that impression and respond kindly the next day, within a 24 hour window.

If a guy gets bent out of shape over not being the only one dominating your time there, then he's not a guy you'd want to date anyway.

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror,

I'm still in NC with the Libra Guy (4 months now, with most of his attempts in the first 2-3 months), but recently, I unintentionally visited his profile while using this Quickmatch feature on Okcupid - and ended up on his visitor log.

*SMACK FOREHEAD*

Soon after though, Libra Guy viewed my profile twice within a week.

I don't plan to message nor email him, but is it okay to view his profile again to show that I'm still curious about him?

Or would it make me look like a stalker (since I had viewed it once already)?

He did visit my profile twice, so I was thinking it was safe to do it as well.

That and, I'd like to hear from him again.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
Well, if you truly do want to hear from him again. . .don't visit the profile again. Make him curious as to why you didn't visit again ;-)

It'd be a bit stalker-like to visit it again, I think.

And it's your choice, but I have no clue why you want to hear from a guy who is supposed to be in a happy relationship right now with another woman - but is trolling a dating site online while he's in it, LOL.

If you date this man - what makes you think he won't behave in EXACTLY this same manner with you? How could you ever fully trust this man dear?

Careful what you wish for Vivian, LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

Oh shit, mirror. So I was just about to reply you and say, "I'm pretty positive Libra Guy is single again! He went back on the dating site daily after Valentine's! She even called him buddy." I also gathered they weren't hanging out together over the weekends.

Now I am not so sure.

I just found out - at the beginning of March, she posted on her blog about her new fitness program and how she excitedly told her "beau" about it... and how he set out rewards to help motivate her.

The description sounds like Libra Guy (he has this fitness certification), but it's possible she broke up with him, and is now referring to someone else. Doubt it, though.

I looked through Libra Guy's new match answers on the site - and he even indicated he'd be ok with connecting with someone whose status was seeing someone or married.

And under the question - "If you were in a serious relationship, would you mind if your significant other maintained an active profile on OkCupid?" he changed his answer from Yes (from last year) to "No this would not bother me."

None of this really makes any sense - if he is still with her. Or maybe they're in an open relationship, free to see other people?

I don't even think I want to date him - but not knowing what happened between him and the girl, and stuff not adding up just drives the curious detective part of me a lil crazy.

I was about to wrap things up and disable my profile for a while, when Jewish Guy messaged me (50 days of NC later) to ask me why haven't I been on Gchat, and that he missed me. LOLOLOL?

He was the one who didn't text me back, so I ignored him.

AGH, the ones you want to resurface, don't. And the ones you don't care about resurfacing, show up again.

I think I'm rambling a bit now... How do I stop this mad obsession over him? Can you slap me, please? Haha.

I'm convinced that if I knew with 100% certainty that Libra Guy was in an exclusive relationship right now, that I'd be able to let go.

Because if they did mutually agree to an open relationship, there's nothing wrong with him being back on the dating site, or seeking attention from other women.

I could find a way to ask the girl about it, actually. We do have 3 mutual friends...

Starting to wonder if I just like stirring up drama for no goddamn reason. :-S

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
LOL, maybe you should poke around and just put this to rest once and for all if you think finding out the truth will do that.

Because I think if you truly got to know this guy, you wouldn't be impressed at all.

I think there's a competitive energy at play here - and THAT'S the draw ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror,

You're really great! I'm very happy that I discovered your site. I simply love it! I hope that you could help me with my little dilemma.
I met a nice man online (we went out 2 times) talked a lot, felt the connection. He told me that he doesn't want to rash into relationship and wants to start with being friends. On the 2 meeting he told me that he's little sick so the next day I texted him and asked him how he was and he answered quickly. Then I texted him 2 times during the week to see how he was? I initiated contact only because he said he was sick but beside that as he told me to be friends for a moment I guess I did not violate any rules. Or did I? Mirror please help? Is it ok to do the pursuing if it's just the friendship? What should I do or not do ;) to make him more interested in order to start a serious relation?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mar 29, 2013 8:37 PM,
"I guess I did not violate any rules. Or did I?"

Yes dear, you did. Because this isn't just intended to be friendship forever. It's friendship intended to lead to a romantic relationship. Which means, no pursuit, no initiation. Always let the man pursue you, otherwise, you'll never know if he's truly interested in you or not:

Read this piece, written by a man:

http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2011/09/dont-initiate-contact.html

"Is it ok to do the pursuing if it's just the friendship?"

No. Not unless you intend to only ever be friends with the man and nothing more.

"What should I do or not do ;) to make him more interested in order to start a serious relation?"

There's nothing a woman can do to make a man love her or want to be in a relationship with her. He either wants to or he doesn't and nothing the woman does can change that.

Which is why you need to let a man pursue you. It's the only way a woman can ever know if the man is interested or not.

Anonymous said...

"I think there's a competitive energy at play here - and THAT'S the draw."

Mirror, you know me so well. :-D

I was catching up with a friend I hadn't seen in years, and I told her about Libra Guy from start to finish. She was definitely NOT impressed.

She asked me, "Did he take you out and make you feel special? Did he call you often? Did he try to get to know you? Did he fly to see you, or even consider it? Will he love, care, and support you?"

And I was completely speechless. Now granted we didn't actually date since I don't live in his city, but still... he's not an upstanding man based on the way he has treated his current gf (though, she's probably still unaware of his philandering ways).

Chasing the truth will just be more investment of my time, binding me deeper to him.

I'm done with him...done with the challenge, done with being jealous.

There is a man out there who is looking for someone like me...and he'll be every good thing I like about Libra Guy, and none of the bad. :-)

Thanks again for your advice and wisdom. Hope prevails!

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, please what´s your view on men who see your profile, write you an email, you answer and they answer saying something like "feel free to ask anything about me you are interested in" with no question about you, no real conversation. Do you think they are only ignorant or do you view this as rudeness? And how should a woman answer or should she write them off right away? Thank you for your reply.

Anonymous said...

@Vivian
I´ve been reading your story, you seem to be a nice young woman. In the past I was in the same boat. Unlike you - at least so far - I revived the relationship with HIM after 2 years or so. And you know what - it led nowhere, I realised I didn´t really like him and I was in love with an illusion. Mirror is right, move on without regrets and maybe like in my case life will show you later that there is nothing to regret after all.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous (March 30, 2013 6:46 PM)

If you don't mind, could you share your story with me? Was he also involved with another woman, and then you left?

Why did you revive the relationship? Were you interested during those 2 years, and when you did revive it, was he still interested? How did it lead nowhere?

Even though I know it's an illusion and I just want what I can't have, it hasn't really helped me move on.

In my twisted head, I feel that I can't move on until either he contacts me again reaffirming that he still misses/thinks of me...or I find out they're in an exclusive relationship, and he had cheated on her.

But I've realized if I think that way, I'll continue to lose and ruin my own life. Over the weekend, I felt an internal shift, that I was ready to give up not being with him ever again....so I took down my profile. A day later, he followed suit and took down his!

My mind went crazy thinking - did he do it because he's in love with her and wants to be loyal? Did he do it to mirror me? I can only shake my head...

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
There may be multiple reasons he took his profile time, but given the timing, that's an indicator for me that. . .he removed his because with yours being down, he no longer has the capability to spy on you, LOL ;-)

This man wants "chased" dear. It's irritating him that you're not hot on his tail, begging for his attention (so he can selectively withhold it from you).

It's all about his ego and pride, I'm quite convinced of that. And as you can see based on his actions, he's insecure. I believe I've mentioned this to you in the past. Insecure men make for crappy boyfriends, lovers and husbands. They need lots of female attention (as you can see) to feel like men, they need the upper hand with women, they like to play emotional head games with women (to feel in control) and they cheat on women (as you can see) due to the fact that they feel so inferior deep down inside as men, that it generally takes more than one women (or two) to make them feel like men.

They're attention whores and they'll take it from wherever they can get it. And when that's yanked away from them, they sulk and then demonize women as "cruel."

When meanwhile, they've brought it all on themselves via their own damn actions, LOL ;-)

He's no good dear :-( He'd only mess with your head and lie to you. He reminds me of a "gentleman player" - which I will be discussing in an upcoming article here soon.

In the meantime, listen to this video, watch it closely and what this man is attempting to portray here in it. . . it's the old "I'm a gentleman and that's why you like me - but what you don't know is, it's a ruse, I'll tell you what I think you want to hear because I'm not authentic and I'm full of shit - and I like it that way" LOL:

http://youtu.be/fxrd_jZJxkg

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
That's a crappy quality video of that song, use this link instead and listen to the words he's saying and look at the outfits he's wearing in it (one's that portray "trust" - i.e. superman, a policeman, a nun (a saint) LOL:

http://youtu.be/jCLizTg9nWo

Anonymous said...

@Vivian
Of course, I can share my story if you are interested. It´s not exactly the same as yours, for example at that time there was no internet so the only contact was by phone. I sat by the phone and waited for hours for that call. We met, we were "dating" for almost a year, he was my first intimate partner, so I was emotionally dependent on him and didn´t think about his negatives. After he got sex, he bacame less and less intereested but never left completely. Which confused me. Wheneevr I tried to move away from him, he came back but I felt he wasn´t really interested. This scenario repeated itself over and over again and it was very exhausting for me. It seemed impossible to detach from him, I couldn´t get out him out of my mind. Whenever I found courage to get rid of him he found a way to lure me back and reignite my hope. It was a psychological warfare. Then it turned out he was simultaneously dating another woman and from what I heard it was "more serious" than with me. Of course. I was heartbroken and eventually found courage and dumped him. About a year passed and he was back. I hadn´t met anybody else, I still felt for him and so I gave him another chance. I even believed he was the one! But I was a year older and a little more experienced. We started dating but this time my eyes were open and I finally came to the conclusion I didn´t want him. It was ME who didn´t want HIM. It was a completely new situation but it was true. That´s why I wrote to you that most probably you saw this guy through your own special glasses back then but if you now regularly dated him, met him in everyday situations, you would probably see him in a different light. Not only see but more importantly, perceive and feel. Now he is a part of your fantasy. I think it would help you to see and as I said, to FEEL the real him - but I am not able to suggest how to achieve that - and in my opinion he himself would turn you off. I understand you, it´s really difficult. I wish you could get out of this state of mind as soon as possible and freely get on with your life. Good luck!

Anonymous said...

Thank you my Dear mirror!!! I so much appreciate that you took time to take care of my case. From now on I'll try to follow your advice. No contact! I hope is not too late and he's gonna make the first step. It's hard though...I can't keep my fingers away from the phone ;) especially cause I don't know anyone in town, no friends, no family (he's the first person that I met). For this I was wondering if I can initiate the contact to for example go for a coffee together for him to meet my sister (she will come to visit me next week). Mirror would that be too much and out of question or is permissible? He said that I can call him when I want or feel lonely. Ahh also forgot to tell you. We made pictures together and he asked me to send them by e-mail. As I contacted him to ask if he feels better, he mentioned the pictures and said that they're beautiful. I did not know how to react to this so ignored this part and I only said I wish you get better soon. After this he did not write anything. My sms was the last. Was my reaction ok or I could make it better? I'm a little lost when it comes to compliment from a male :(
I have last question mirror. During our 2 meeting he asked what I'm looking for and I said that a serious relation and that I don't want to get involved physically until there is a strong commitment that may lead to engagement or marriage. Do you think that I could scare him away with this statement? Should I kept it for later and for the moment just say that for now I want to have a good time and we'll see about the rest?

Thank you so much!

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror, I recently met a guy online, after a week of chatting we decided to meet at a local coffeeshop. The date went well, he talked very openly and seemed genuinely interested in me. He was goofy and sweet and at times playfully banged his head on the table when he thought he said something wrong. He hugged me when we parted. Shortly afterwards I get two texts. One saying how beautiful he thot I was and one saying he hoped I would give him another chance cuz he 'really likes me'. I texted back something vague like "i appreciate that" but didn't come right out and say whether I wanted to see him again. Next day we get snow and he texted me. I told him i rented a bunch of movies and he offers to come over, but of course its too soon so I said thats ok I watch them by myself. I have now not heard from him in a week! Im stressing out cuz maybe he got the idea im not interested cuz i didn't come right out and say it in plain english. And if he's not interested then how can he say he really liked me and thot I was beautiful if he knew he was gonna let me down! Im considering reaching out him, cuz its really bothering me! I don't want him to go away thinking I didn't like him but I think if I just got it over with then I would know for sure and can move on . . . seriously disappointed in men right now ;(

Anonymous said...

@Mirror

I know you're not him but...if Libra Guy was an insecure attention whore, why didn't he stay ON the dating site?

It's not like his gf would have found out anyways. She seems completely oblivious. He could have just left his profile up and not login again.

Seems silly to take down his profile because of me, when he could continue to get attention from other women on there.

Perhaps he has a .... conscience?

Though it's a good thing - now I can put my profile back up. *chuckle*

Thanks for linking me to the Liar song. I hate the lyrics, but it made me laugh at the same time. Sucker! Sucker! Sucker!

I'm really looking forward to your upcoming article on the "gentleman player."

It's easy to spot and toss men who are cocky and arrogant, and are clearly playing the field. But the sweet ones who say the right things like Libra Guy are the absolute worst, because you WANT to believe in their words... but then their actions don't match up at all (which women usually ignore when they're attracted...sigh).

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous

Thank you so much for sharing your story with me. I relate to the emotional rollercoaster that comes along with a guy who does the push and pull. The Libra Guy tugged at my emotions for months and it made it extremely hard to detach.

There was always a little bit of hope and progress that would keep me hanging on. He'd back off and be distant, and when I did the same... he'd panic and try to lure me back with his sweet words.

If it weren't for mirror's suggestion to initiate NC back in November, I would be in a much darker place right now.

But the good thing is, much like every break up I've had, once the grieving process is complete, it's done for good.

You being able to share from a place of experience really encourages me. I'll probably have a really good laugh if he resurfaces a year later like your guy did. But if I'm tempted, I'll remember your story and think twice about trying again.

Thanks again for the supportive words.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
He left because when you left and he couldn't spy anymore, it kind of hurt his pride. Because in his mind, he was convinced that you were there - to spy on him, LOL. Insecure guys think everything is about them. So when you left, his ego was a bit hurt (because you didn't stick around to spy on him).

He'll be back on again sometime soon - you watch ;-)

Anonymous said...

dear mirror,
i met this man online and i think hes cute.we had a small chat .cracked some jokes ....but it ended just like that when he didnt reply back. it ended with me laughing at one of his jokes .i was expecting fo him to ask for my number.would it look or seem slutty or desperate to give my number to him first?since hes not replying back.or should i just move on?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
I think his silence is telling you all you need to know. There's no reason to provide your telephone number to a man that isn't asking for it dear. Don't risk rejection or possibly feeling foolish.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirrow,
We miss you here so much!! Especially me :)Please come and help. I'm going crazy here without your wisdom and my sister is coming this week.

Hope to hear from you soon

Sonia

Anonymous said...

Dear mirror, that's me again :)great that you're back!!! I so much appreciate that you took time to take care of my case. From now on I'll try to follow your advice. No contact! I hope is not too late and he's gonna make the first step. It's hard though...I can't keep my fingers away from the phone ;) especially cause I don't know anyone in town, no friends, no family (he's the first person that I met). For this I was wondering if I can initiate the contact to for example go for a coffee together for him to meet my sister (she will come to visit me next week). Mirror would that be too much and out of question or is permissible? He said that I can call him when I want or feel lonely. Ahh also forgot to tell you. We made pictures together and he asked me to send them by e-mail. As I contacted him to ask if he feels better, he mentioned the pictures and said that they're beautiful. I did not know how to react to this so ignored this part and I only said I wish you get better soon. After this he did not write anything. My sms was the last. Was my reaction ok or I could make it better? I'm a little lost when it comes to compliment from a male :(
I have last question mirror. During our 2 meeting he asked what I'm looking for and I said that a serious relation and that I don't want to get involved physically until there is a strong commitment that may lead to engagement or marriage. Do you think that I could scare him away with this statement? Should I kept it for later and for the moment just say that for now I want to have a good time and we'll see about the rest?

Thank you so much!

Sonia

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Sonia,
"From now on I'll try to follow your advice. No contact!"

"I was wondering if I can initiate the contact to for example go for a coffee together for him to meet my sister (she will come to visit me next week)."

You have to make a firm decision here dear and then stand by it, LOL ;-)

"Do you think that I could scare him away with this statement?"

Yes, I do. Statements such as that are many times, erroneously interpreted by men as "rejection."

"Should I kept it for later and for the moment just say that for now I want to have a good time and we'll see about the rest?"

What a man asks a probing question like that, it's best to simply say something along the lines of, "Ultimately, I'd like a relationship but until that time, I'm just dating, having fun, exploring my options and looking forward to getting to know you better."

Anonymous said...

Just a quick post to say thank you for your typically amazing advice Mirror.

I've previously posted anonymously on the disappearing man thread (I had a flakey/insecure player who possibly has unresolved relationships issues, but more likely just seems to have moved on to someone he likes better/believes he has a better chance of sleeping with. I know, that mightn't really narrow it down much! Haha.) He was actually a rare date who I didn't meet online, and now I'm back trying online dating with all these tips up my sleeve. I'm only in the early stages of contact with several men, but so far I am finding it a much more enjoyable experience than previously.

It's so obvious, but letting yourself be pursued is so much easier, and I'm going to bet a whole lot less painful when things don't work out. I can just relax, and make men prove their worth to me! This is so simple, and yet I still don't think I would've worked this out for myself without your guidance (and, of course, without encountering the player in the first instance - hello silver lining!)

~ A reformed dater :)

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,

I really enjoy reading your blog, so thank you.
Since we are on the subject of online dating, I would love to know your opinion on my last date experience.
I met this guy online two weeks ago. His profile was nice, based on his three pictures he looked OK. So we exchanged a few emails and decided to meet last Tuesday (3 or 4 days before the actual date).
I had no expectations and was pleasantly surprised, first by his look (much better than in his photos), then by his personality. We had a great time talking and laughing about anything and everything.
He repeated a few times how much he enjoyed our conversation and that he would really like to see me again. When we were outside he asked for my #. I told him that I would love to see him again as well.
So today is Monday, almost a week since our date and I did not hear back from him. Since he viewed my profile later I can see his profile on my home page “who viewed me” and can tell that he was active and “on line”. I did not go to his profile and obviously not going to contact him.
So, I am not overly upset as he is not the first or the last who disappeared (although I liked him more than others), but am definitely curious why after being so exited and asking for my # and another date…he is gone… and does almost a week of silence mean he is gone for good?

Thank you!
L

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@L,
No dear, a week in a mans world is nothing, LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

@Mirror

Yep, Libra Guy will probably be back on the dating site if they hit a rough patch at some point. Might be another few months, but I'm not holding my breath.

One guy - has started to grow on me (will call him Capricorn Guy).

He showed interest in me last summer when I was visiting California and he was there for an internship at a law firm (ugh, yes, another lawyer lol), but I was too lazy to respond to his long message.

A month ago, I was using this quickmatch feature and saw Capricorn Guy in the queue...so I rated him just to see how recent the matches were (since Libra Guy was also in the queue).

I got an instant automated message saying we were a mutual match. The day after, he initiated a message and we started talking. Apparently he's in the mid-west finishing up law school now.

About a week ago, before I took down my profile, I told him someone was bothering me and that I had to switch to a new profile.

I gave him my username, and poofed. Surprisingly - he looked me up, sent me a message, and even PASTED our entire convo so I didn't have to log into my old profile (his words).

Maybe my standards are so low after Libra Guy's treatment, that this guy is seriously impressing me.

And ... this naturally freaks me out. He seems like a good guy (also a computer nerd - love those!), and he's showing through his actions that he wants to get to know me. He was raised by a single mother, so he has a lot of respect for strong, independent women.

Now I don't know how to act at all, and I'm afraid I'll say something and show an immature part of me that will scare him away.

I know this is just my insecurities/fears talking... how do I NOT sabotage this?

I'm trying to practice everything I've learned so far from your blog on this guy - and get it right.

The good thing is - he won't be in Cali again until the end of the year, so we actually have a lot of time to get to know each other. And I know he won't get into anything serious in the meantime, since he knows he'll be moving eventually.

But yeah I just hate that I initially don't pay attention to a guy... but he slowly starts growing on me... and I freak out that I'm going to mess it up.

Unlike Libra Guy, this one actually gives me a feeling of security (could be that he's a Capricorn; they all seem very stable to me).

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,
So I have grasped the concept of guys testing us girls by withdrawing at the first stages of the relationship/interaction, to gauge our level of interest. But if we girls mirror that behavior and withdraw as well, how will the guy be satisfied that we are indeed interested in them? I know you say genuinely interested men seek us out, but there must be a line somewhere, right, where the guy concludes that it's a no-go because apparenly we don't care? In other words, do we keep playing it cool and not budge and not even give any sign that we think their behavior is disappointing (whuch after all, it is)? Ah you know, Mirror, I am usually so disappointed with guys who do this, it's such a cold shower, even if I know how to play the game and stick it to them, and they always come running back, I am still so put off usually that I am not motivated to even continue seeing them. It's like a door closes.

Anonymous said...

Just thought I'd share one of my latest online dating stories...

I was contacted by a man who bears a striking resemblance to my Disappearer - Aries, divorced, two kids. I mean really, I'm only 26, so I'm not sure I need these kinds of complications just yet. But, even though my mind was going 'you know what they're like', I thought it was only fair to give him a chance and see how he plays it.

And well, it's been hilarious! He sent me his number in just his second email. He said he finds the emailing thing a bit frustrating sometimes, which I can understand. But being a good student of this site, I didn't contact him and gave him my number instead. Since then, he has used it to contact me twice to:
- tell me he'd been for a 46km ride
- tell me he was then going for an hour run
- tell me he was then up at 5.15 the next morning for a PT session
- tell me that he'd planned to do a 5km run, but when that was cancelled he took surfing lessons instead
- not ask a single question of me other than 2 x 'how are you going?'.

Haha, what!? I guess that kind of thing must impress other women!

Interestingly, now that I can see that this guy's really seeking attention/praise/ego stroking/reinforcement of his masculinity/lord knows what, I can see that the Disappearer also had some of these tendencies that I didn't really acknowledge at the time. It's amazing the perspective you can get with some distance!

-ac11

Anonymous said...

ac11 - Thanks for sharing. That was hilarious! Brought a chuckle on a bad day for me! Thanks!!

WISE OWL said...

Dear MOA, this is still my fav article on your blog...great advice that I use often, and its been a great help. However, I want to ask some things about the early stages of online communication. Firstly, sometimes when I first accept a contact request I will leave a brief msg saying Hi thanks for request my name is..hope to chat soon. Then they may leave a similar brief msg the next day. Then when we are both online at the same time for the first time, the man does nothing, just sits there...I wait...is he going to talk to me?...sometimes this goes on for many nights....should I not initiate the communication here? How many nights should I wait till he talks?

The next question I have is refers to the 3rd paragraph in this article about "the woman needs to ask the right questions in the right manner in order to gain the information you're truly seeking"..Hmm would you please expand on this. What questions should I be asking? What am I truly seeking? Im not talking how many kids do you have and what job do you do...are you meaning the ones that lead me to know what kind of man he is,...Im a bit in the dark here..and feel Im wasting a lot of time chatting about superficial topics without getting to know him, and if he will be right for me.
Thanks, WISE OWL

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@WISE OWL,
"should I not initiate the communication here?"

No, don't do that. You see, this is another "filter" stage. What I would do here is simply accept the request and not send the "hi, my name is" message. Accepting the request is enough of a green light for a man to proceed as the man in the situation - i.e. the leader.

So you accept and then you let him proceed with taking the lead role. If he doesn't do that, then he's not a man that you'd want to be with anyway. If he can't take the lead in the beginning, there's a very high likelihood he'll never take the lead at any stage.

"How many nights should I wait till he talks?"

Well, don't "wait" on him. Accept and move on about your business. As I stated above, if he doesn't man up, then so be it.

"are you meaning the ones that lead me to know what kind of man he is"

Yes, exactly. But I can't really answer that question directly as these are the situations that vary from person to person. But an example would be something like this. If you want to know if a man has ever cheated on a woman, you don't come right out and ask that. You start with a lead in question such as, "Do you enjoy being in a relationship? Or do you find that you value your independence more?"

That may seem like a no-brainer question because if a man is on an online dating site, many women assume it's safe to assume he's seeking a relationship. Not so. Many men are online seeking "situations" and/or "arrangements" with women but they're pretending to want a relationship in order to slowly cajole the woman into a "situation" (by leading her on).

So if a man him-haws around with the question I posed above, it's a good indicator of a few possibilities:

1) He's buying time and wondering whether or not to lie about the answer.

2) He's undecided, in which case you may become a casualty of his wishy-washy indecision.

If he answers that he likes his independence, then you know that:

1) He's not seeking a relationship even if he's pretending he is.

2) He's not worth your time.

If he answers firmly and immediately that he enjoys the state of a relationship, then you:

1) Can be safe taking a risk with him.

2) Can give him a chance.

So it's about subtlety and it's about reading body language, watching eye contact and watching for immediacy versus him-hawing around.

And then you take it a step further with a question like, "What do you miss about being in a relationship." If he starts to rattle off the little things like cuddling, sleeping with someone, sharing time with someone, etc., then you receive a bit of verification to back up his first response.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

And you continue to do this in a roundabout way, using each question as an attempt to validate his initial response. You're seeking consistency here in his responses. They all have to line up in order for you to truly receive your confirmation about his character. If he starts shifting in his seat or looking worried or begins laughing nervously, then you don't count that as a validation - that counts as a lie. If he moves freely and smoothly through consistent responses that back up his initial response, then you can be a bit more reassured of his truthfulness.

Because a liar and/or a player will screw this up, LOL. They have a tendency to underestimate women as stupid play things that can't think for themselves and they generally don't realize what all of the trivial, somewhat meaningless "small talk" is really indicating to you, the woman. As a result, a liar and/or a player will have trouble remaining consistent. And even if they do pull off consistent answers, their lies will show in their body language and immediate behavior following their answers given.

You're not asking these questions like an interrogator either, LOL. You are slowly squeezing them into the conversation as "small talk" and nothing more. So you don't rapid fire the questions off. You ask one, then you sit silent and let him talk for a bit. Then you talk about the weather or something LOL, then you sneak in another one, "You had said earlier that you enjoy being in a relationship. What do you miss most? I miss having someone to ____. How about you?"

And you do this in a conversational mode that seems natural and that is sprinkled into the conversation over an evening. You're looking for consistency - that's the biggie here - consistency ;-)

With this particular angle, the goal was to find out if the man is faithful or not. But you've never once come out and asked him that. And not only are you gradually finding out the answer to that (consistency and indicators of truthfulness versus inconsistency and the impression of something to hide) - he's also revealing what being in a relationship with him would be like ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hello MOA! I literally stumbled across your blog and absolutely love it. You make this single gal not feel so crazy and alone in the dating world! I have even shared your blog with several of my single girlfriends.

So I have a question that I'm not sure you've addressed. When internet dating, do you wink/smile/express interest/email first or only communicate once a man has expressed interest in you?

I do not express any kind of interest in men unless I'm truly interested and they have expressed interest FIRST. Some of my friends think that's crazy, but others do the same. It's probably a frear of rejection thing for me. I'm not going to put myself out there and get rejected. I'd rather do the rejecting.

I'd appreciate any advice you have when it comes to this.

Thank you much!

Carrie

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Carrie,
Studies have show that women have much HIGHER chances of successful long term relationships with men that approach them FIRST. When the situation is reversed, it generally amounts to no more than a 3 month brief affair of sorts, or worse a one night stand and then the man vanishes into thin air.

This piece was written by a man that explains the concept a bit, although the piece isn't geared towards online dating:

http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2011/09/dont-initiate-contact.html

The only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested is if he pursues her ;-)

Let them come to you dear.

VirgoPal said...

MOA-

I "met" a man online this past week. He asked me for my number so we can talk on the phone. Does the same rules apply? Do I wait a couple of hours to respond to the email? This one may have some potential, so I don't want to blow it completely.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@VirgoPal,
Yes, always hang back. Making yourself too available too early and being too eager tends to invite poor treatment from many men. Not all, but many.

Anonymous said...

I am so sick and tired on trying to find a decent man online. I've tried Match, Ok Cupid, and some niche sites. Doesn't matter: the men all turn out to be disrespectful. I stand firm when it comes to NOT EVER giving out my cell number until after we've met for coffee to see if we click. If we click and desire a second real date, then and only then does he get my cell number. Any man who does not respect this rule is not someone I would want in my life. If he is reliable, he will show up for our introductory coffee date: he does not need my number. What, to text me and say he's not coming? I tell a man online via the site that I will check mail as late as an hour before going to meet up with him. I know life is unpredictable and give him that venue for cancelling on short notice. This policy has proved very handy: it weeds out the disrespectful men: the controllers, the weirdos, the easily offended. I didn't plan for it to be a test, but have realized that it is in fact just that: a test. How does he react to not getting my cell number? Nike said Just Do It! I say: Don't Do It! Respect yourself, protect yourself, don't settle for anything but the best guy.
I rest my case, Your Honor.

VirgoPal said...

Why would you not want to talk to someone verbally before you meet them? Honestly, its no difference than giving a random man on the street or at the club your number. You usually can tell a lot about a man from their voice and a phone conversation. Hell, they may slip and ask for sex while talking to you. You could've saved a lot of time before the coffee date.

Anonymous said...

I am wanting to have way more appreciation in my dating life! I met a man online and we emailed, facebooked, chatted, and spoke appropriately paced for 2+ years.We started out as great friends, and I kept wondering when he was going to find a nice girl, have a family and move on. Then things kind of changed in our friendship. We had said the "I love you's" for probably a year before we decided to meet. In fact, we had even sent each other notes, letters, gifts in the mail. He had been asking me to meet him for a very long time, and I finally agreed. I have small children so I did not feel comfortable meeting at my home. I agreed to meet at his house and was okay with it because we had skyped several times, he had just gotten out of the hospital, and I simply didn't want to be nervous in public. I wanted a chance to actually see him. I was going to visit my father for the weekend, and decided to join my friend for dinner on the way. Yes, the inevitable happened. I slept with him that first meeting. I cannot believe I did that! It's been eight months since that time. I see him regularly but we do not have sex every time. We talk every single day, mostly about his work, my home life, both our future goals. He has helped me, I have helped him. We go shopping and rides along the coast. I have met his family. However, we have never really been out on a date. I don't really understand. Tomorrow is his birthday, and suddenly, I just don't want to do a big thing like I normally would. My last birthday, he was busy. He called me several times, but no gift, no visit, no nothing special. I'm not trying to pay back, but I'm feeling funny. Suggestions on how to not be a jerk, but also on how to get him to pursue me more?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
As much as I hate to say this, I repeat it constantly - how you're dating situation with a guy starts out - is ALWAYS how it will be from that day forward.

And in this case, it started out too easy for him. You went to him and he got the goods WITHOUT having to properly date you first. As a result, he felt it was perfectly okay to continue in that manner from that day forward, as you've seen. And then the inevitable happens when that takes place - the woman ultimately becomes disappointed and feels somewhat neglected.

In the future dear, don't sell yourself short.

And in situations like this, you mirror the man's behavior. If your birthday was no big deal to him, then his should be no big deal to you. You only do for him regarding the birthday - what he has done for you regarding yours. And if that amounts to nothing, then so be it. You never give more than you get. . .or you'll get taken for granted from that day forward in the blink of an eye. The woman ALWAYS sets the pace and expectation for how she expects to be treated from the VERY FIRST date, regardless of anything that's led up to that date.

And if you want him to pursue you more, then you need to pull back. You need to cease initiating communication and you need to become somewhat scarce. You need to force HIM to come to YOU and to flirt with the thought that he may be losing you.

It's the only thing that may (or may not) kick him into gear (since he's had it relatively easy from day one).

Anonymous said...

What an excellent article. Set the pace / scene - from day 1. Dont think you can change it later.

I recently gave my number to someone I met online, chat site. He is intelligent, humorous, tongue in cheek, and somewhat arrogant. He's also looking to meet I would say sooner rather than later. I am usually excellent in the screening process and rarely give out my phone number. This one did however 'intrigue' me with his banter and promise of something more beneath it. He initiated the meeting conversation, we had a few more conversations after that and I gave him my number (and he responded with his also - as well as a 'looking forward to using that phone number'). Although, so far he hasn't called (with over a week to do it). I must say I'm a bit surprised. He's confident, I would say quite clever in dating etiquette, and by all accounts quite interested.
I considered calling him but decided against it. I can simply tell with this one it would not be a good idea. *An interesting side note; I'm actually thinking about this/him. His not calling is causing me to think more about him. If I give out my number, men call. So in a way I find his behaviour rude, and fascinating.

I also have a feeling he either will call (eventually) or we will speak again online. At which point, I am unsure whether to be nonchalant and upbeat, slip into tongue in cheek banter mode or be annoyed (actually, that last one is by all accounts a bad idea). At what point do you decide this one isn't for me ?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Honestly, the fact that it's already been a week signals to me that he's got lots of irons in the fire...I.e. he's only half interested and probably more interested in keeping you as an option, rather than a priority :-(

I'd keep dating other men and move along with my life. If/when he appears, I'd take my good old time getting back to him, days, maybe even a week or so.

You said it yourself, he's well versed in dating..and he appears to have a pretty slick tongue with women, knowing how to tell them what they want to hear. To me, he appears to be a professional dater...I.e. "serial dater" and most likely, not a man in search of a relationship so much as an "arrangement" with a woman.

Careful with this one dear.

Anonymous said...

Wow... the horrible advice women get from online dating guides like this never ceases to amaze me.

Ladies... I don't advocate sleeping with a guy on the 1st date but common on now... the ONLY reason any guy sticks around until the 7th or 9th date without getting any is because he's a desperate loser that has no other options. Unless he's a complete loser living with his mom no guy in his right mind wastes his time, effort or money on more than 3 dates if he's not getting laid when there's dozens of other women out there who aren't such prudes. If a guy waits for 3 dates that shows commitment. If a guy waits for 7-9 dates, that shows he should probably be committed in a padded room. Face it ladies... if I guy is gone a few weeks after sleeping with you, perhaps you may want to consider improving your bedroom skills. Otherwise, if the bedroom skills aren't there he's eventually going to leave you anyways. Otherwise, the only different between the guy that bails after 3 dates vs the guy that waits 7-9 dates that this... you'll waste a few weeks of your life on the guy that leaves after 3 dates whereas you'll waste a few years of your life before the guy that waits 7-9 dates leaves.

Articles with horrible advice like this make me truly and sincerely feel bad for women... it's a perfect example of bad information that set women up for failure. It's almost should be a crime for Disney to feed little girls this BS about Prince Charming coming into their lives, sweeping them off their feet, solving all their problems and living happily ever after. The fact of the matter is that... this expectation is a fantasy that'll only set you up for a lifetime of failure, disappointment and loneliness.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Oh look, it's one of them cartoon characters - a so-called "pick up artist" LOL.

Read the comment above carefully ladies. This gent clearly has nary an ounce of respect for women and also feels that their entire value as a human being. . .isn't worth more than 3 days of effort on his part, LOL!!!

For your information sir, women think and view your perspective of women very differently than shallow men like yourself view yourselves. Your arrogant, entitled attitude leads you to erroneously believe that you deserve a lot (access to a woman's body) - for very little investment (3 lousy dates).

And your entitlement and shallowness also shows through in your opinion that if a guy leaves after sex - the one and only reason for doing so is because - the woman sucks in bed. What a joke. Like I said, "cartoon character."

Your entire comment totally gives you away as nothing more than a player seeking sex. You're clearly not a man seeking a real, authentic relationship with women because you're lack of investment is indicative of your end goal - sex. Because 3 dates, entitlement, arrogance and a misogynistic view of women will clearly not lead to a relationship with a real woman. The only kind of woman who would tolerate that type of treatment and permit it to lead her into a relationship is an insecure one. A woman who has low self esteem and buys into your view that women are worthless and valueless unless they're willing to have sex within 3 dates.

You reek of being afflicted with "man child" syndrome and the air of entitlement that swirls around you is putrid:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/02/modern-man-power-failure-to-earn.html

Bet your mama's real proud of you - NOT.

And your entire argument here is entirely based on SEX - it's such a dead giveaway that you're a man that's not worth one ounce of a woman's time. It's also a dead giveaway that you spend the bulk of your time around insecure women with low self esteem. You treat dating like a sport and you also view it as "predator vs. prey" - and I'm quite sure that you prefer the weak women of the pack as I imagine they're the only one's who would tolerate your sexist view of women.

Go back to the land of "pick up artists" and enjoy slumming it dude. Your realm is the dating ghetto, a world where sex with insecure women as a hobby is hailed. A world where making a women feel worthless and valueless works on weak women and gets insecure women to screw you in their feeble attempt to prove worthwhile and valuable to you - it's not the real world where the rest of us live.

We all know the recipe for a pick up artist:

One dose of ignorance
One cup of entitlement
Two cups of apathy
A teaspoon of bullshit

Mix with a weak, insecure women in a large bowl. Be rude and let simmer on the second date. Reappear and watch the women go to great lengths to gain your withheld approval. Congratulations, you just got laid.

Whoopdiedo - anyone on the planet can get laid. Oh wait, I correct that. Anyone on the planet can get laid EXCEPT pick up artists - they actually need to STUDY the topic in order to achieve that goal because their skills as men and as human beings offer them so very little to accomplish that with.

What's that tell you ladies, LOL ;-)

In the world of pick up artists gals, it's not about relationships - it's about sex. As you can see from his comment above, no mention of real bonding, only cheap anonymous sex with a virtual stranger. Their tactics and beliefs get them laid, but those tactics and beliefs will NEVER lead them towards a genuine relationship with a real woman - a creature of which they do not value and have very little respect for, as you can see.

They are the bottom feeders of the dating world. Steer clear of men who speak of women with such little value ladies.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@PUA,
Oh, I almost forgot! A VERY big thank you for proving me right on something that I state here on this site repeatedly to women:

A genuinely interested man pursues a woman. A half interested man or a player simply seeking free and easy sex makes a few lame attempts - and then moves on to easier prey.

Thank you for proving me right, LOL ;-)

His suggestions will lead you to sex ladies. Mine will lead you to a relationship.

Peter said...

Hello Anonymous May 3rd 2-15pm,

I’ll pass on some friendly suggestions regarding your attitude and comments on this particular thread. The first is the issue of your labeling the advice given here as horrible and how you feel bad for women. I suggest you do two things, firstly look through the comments of thanks towards the owner of this blog from women in need who have had their lives made better via the help here. Second read your own suggestions and you’ll find you’re the only one advocating women sleep around and use sex as a tool to retain a man.

I have had long term relationships where I have waited the “loser” period you suggest. And guess what? I am neither desperate nor am I a loser. In fact very much the opposite but I don’t blow my own trumpet. I find your attitude towards this disgusting. What are you entitled to here? What makes you think you deserve sex from a women after even the 10th or 100th date..never mind the 3rd date. You deserve it if and when she decides you do but you seem to think women protecting themselves is “prudish”, you’re the kind of man that forces women into positions that would in my view hurt her. You determine a woman’s value by what she gives sexually and that is truly pathetic. I know you will mostly likely be single and self centered “1 minute man” in the bedroom. You attitude says that and guess what..no decent woman will give you the time of day for that and you don’t deserve it. You most likely by with insecure women and you probably prey on them. What you advocate here is emotional manipulation for your own sexual gain.

Waiting 3 dates does not show commitment it shows a man with a plan for sleeping with women. 3 dates is nothing, if you think 3 dates is commitment then you know nothing about commitment. 3 dates is easy to do. I know loads of guys that act like you and guess what..all of them single.

You don’t like spending money? Putting in effort or time? Well the woman you get is worth everything compared to any of that. Do yourself a favor and let someone else who can her worth take over. Maybe dating is not the thing for you?

A secure woman will on occasion do this kind of thing and go out for sex. It’s because she has needs and she can get guys like you any day of the week. While you take her home thinking you've won well she is laughing at you because she’s the one using you...she’s not into you. She will when she’s done drop you and the more you you play up then easier it is...because you show yourself as a weak man. That’s right she never wanted you...think about that one because it wont be you succeeding by dating this way. It ‘ll catch up in the end ;-)

@ Ladies

There’s nothing I can say that hasn't been said by MOA here but I will say something. Listen to what MOA says and read this guys comment it says it all.

Ladies forget this man’s suggestions on bedroom skills. A man who leaves after sex is a player and selfish man focused on his own needs. It’s that simple because I’ll tell you now if he cared then it would be HIS bedroom skills he would be looking to improve to focus on you. In my experience any man that likes you genuinely will want to grow with you in this area. Bedroom skills are not something to worry about, filtering out guys like this is.

Ladies this man thinks you protecting yourself, and those most valuable but also most vulnerable parts of yourself is being a “prude”, he thinks it’s Disney fantasy and road to failure. That is why you need to listen to MOA. Men like this are on the increase it seems. It’s only a failure for the men who act this way because they can’t overcome you and earn your respect. So they try to manipulate it out of you. Take in what he said and remember it so you can learn to notice it and filter it.

Gemini 50 said...

@ Anonymous 5/3 2:15 AM

"...perhaps you may want to consider improving your bedroom skills. Otherwise, if the bedroom skills aren't there he's eventually going to leave you anyways."

Sweety, you have it ALL wrong. The best time I've shared in the bedroom is when the MAN has been a REAL MAN and brought out the REAL WOMAN in me. When he makes the effort to understand what I like and acts on it, then BABY, it's ON!

It sounds like you've left a lot of unsatisfied women wondering why they bothered with you. Silly, silly fool.

Try a "science experiment" just to see how it turns out: The next woman you are attracted to, think of HER before yourself. Keep that raging peanut in your pants under control, and listen to her. Look at her not as a means to an end -- but rather as a woman with a mind and a heart and dreams who is willing to work for them.

I bet you can't do it. I bet you'll say you don't want to, because you don't have to, because there are plenty of women you can find to have sex with you... but sweety, as you get older, that is going to get harder.

@Ms. Mirror,
I don't think you can call this guy an artist. Artists create, not destroy. Artists find the beauty in things and try to add their own creativity to make it stronger. Artists make beautiful works where someone else could not see it.

This guy is not an artist. Rather, I'd call him "Stinky." A long word for P-U, and "Stinky" because that's probably what the women say when they think of him after they've gotten him out of their bed.

In fact, let's call all these guys "SHIT," because shit is stinky!

Hey Stinky Shit,
How do you like us now?

Gemini 50 said...

p.s. @ Peter,
I love you! :) (like a sister)

Where's djBuck? StinkyShit needs more ass-kicking by a real Man!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Gemini 50,
LOL, it's 100% crystal clear that this man is emotionally void - i.e. emotionally unavailable.

Again, he exhibits no talk of real bonding, only that of getting laid. As well, his idea of what a "man" is, is seriously skewed. He erroneously thinks that because he has a penis - he's a man. Male genitalia alone do not grant the status of "man" - and real men don't have to use manipulation to gain access to a woman's body.

Honestly, he sounds like the perfect candidate for a hooker. I imagine it'd cost him less that his lame 3 date investment does. Hell, a BJ is $20 bucks these days. I imagine a romp in the hay can be had for $50 to $100 and as his only goal is SEX - it seems like a win-win to me. I agree with Peter, I don't think dating is really for him. He's confused - he thinks sleeping around and sex with virtual strangers IS dating.

That's hooking up - NOT DATING. Two entirely different things.

I get what you're saying about artists, these guys label themselves as such. To me, it's as you said - not an art at all, but more like a circus side-show act.

And do you know why these PUA's have 3 date rules? It's EXACTLY as Peter has stated - no woman sticks around for more than 3 dates with men like this - AND THEY KNOW THIS. Which is why they use the quick "get in, get out" method of a 3 date rule. It's akin to, "I better hurry up and get her into bed before she has time to figure out that I'm a big disappointment of a man and leaves me first."

It's all insecurity and as we all know, like attracts like - insecure men attract insecure women and vice versa. It's really toxic and dysfunctional and so much so, that they drape a veiled label of "dating" onto this behavior to disguise the toxicity from even themselves. What he describes couldn't be further from dating - again, it's hooking up. And this man is seriously confused.

And also as Peter has stated and as you, yourself have picked up on here as well - men like this stink in the sac. Truly, they are totally crappy lovers. Everyone know that a true mac of a man aims to deliver in the bedroom - he thinks about the woman, not about himself. He's so focused on the woman's performance that he fails to notice that his own performance is err. . .falling short.

I've seen it. Men who talk a big talk, act like they have loads of female options out there waiting in the wings, run a PR campaign for themselves that's right up there in line with Superbowl commercials with these fake facades to get the woman all pumped up for err. . .nothing.

And when this big event of "nothing" happens on the 3rd date and the woman disappears - these guys are so insecure that they claim it was THEM who disappeared. "Oh, I had to get rid of her, she was getting clingy." Or, "I think she was falling in love with me so I had to dump her."

Meanwhile, they're texting, calling, emailing, Facebooking - and hearing nothing but crickets.

And THAT, ladies, is why a PUA uses the 3 date rule - because they KNOW no woman in her right mind is going to think that what little they have to offer a woman - is worth any more of her time than 3 dates.

And Peter is also correct in that, many times, a strong woman will use a man like this. Again, seen it myself. When a player like that offers himself up on the 3rd date, sometimes a strong woman is like, "Eh, why not. He's a flake and I don't like him anyway, besides it won't mean shit, so why not just have some fun with him."

And that's exactly what she does. And he thinks he's a real stud - until he goes for the 2nd hookup attempt - and only hears crickets ;-)

I'm actually glad he showed up here. I think this entire discussion and all that's been revealed once digging deeper is going to be an excellent learning experience for women here.

Anonymous said...

Just an update on my egocentric, athletic Aries.

After keeping me abreast of his exercise regime, about three weeks ago he finally asked if I would like to meet up for a drink the following week. We tentatively agreed on a day, but I never heard anything more from him.

It was literally just yesterday that I deleted his number from my phone, because I figured that ship had sailed. Well, who texts me this morning? You bet!

Best of all was the content of his message - his usual how are you, as well as the excuse that he's 'just got his phone back' because apparently 'they don't like to be dropped on the ground when riding a bike'. I'm actually quite impressed that he managed to integrate yet another mention of his physical activity into his excuse.

So, what approach now? Ignore, or wait a while and then respond? My head says ignore, because clearly he's a flake looking for an ego boost, but there's an ugly part of me that's actually getting a bit of entertainment out of this :P

- ac11

Nicole Howard said...

Hi Mirror,

I am currently talking to a guy that I have met online and I do not know whether I should date other people or not. I really like him. We have been talking on the phone for the past two months and have been on four dates for the past month. We have even kissed a couple of times and he always gives me compliments. (Of course, no sex as yet :-) )He also calls me almost everyday and we have a good connection. He is also very respectful and a gentleman. However, I do not know whether I should ask him if he is ready for a commitment or wait...Please advise.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Nicole,
No dear...why would a woman ask a man for a commitment? Why would a woman take the lead role, that of a man, in the relationship? When a woman takes the lead like that, she begins to exhibit masculine energy (leading). Men are not attracted to masculine energy, they are attracted to feminine energy (submissive). If you pursue a man, take the lead role (his role) and pressure him...he's going to pull back and fade away.

When a woman takes the lead, it removes all the fun for the man from dating her....no competition, no uncertainty, no challenge, no fun.

Men love competition, they love sport, they love a challenge and they like to "win" things. As a result, the man needs to ask for the commitment. If you play his part and take on his lead role, he'll disappear.

Be a challenge, be mysterious, be fun and be yourself. Give him plenty of time and space to decide what he wants here...don't try to force things before he's ready.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Nicole,
Oh and by the way, yes..you should definitely be casually dating other men. You've only had four dates with this man and they've each been two weeks apart...casual.

You have made no commitments to him, you have no obligation to him and your both Internet dating. Trust me....he's dating other women, that's what he's there for.

And you should be dating other men as well.

Chelle said...

Hi Mirror,

Oh, how I wish I had come across your dating advice earlier! I started communicating with a man (he initiated contact) who so far seems to be a real sweetheart. After 4-5 emails, he gave me his number and work schedule telling me that if I ever wanted to text or chat, feel free. I gave him my number in return. My mistake is that I texted him first...two days after he gave me his number, but I see from reading your advice that it was a big no-no. It's not that he's not still showing interest... he is, at the same rate. BUT having made that flub with the contact, is it possible for me to salvage the situation and put the ball back in his court (so to speak)? If so, what's the best tactic? I've been in the pursuer situation before, and I have no desire to go there again. I'd rather give up on him altogether than do that, but I'm hoping that I won't have to because this man is actually funny and interesting... and his emails are unique and thoughtful.

Thanks,
Chelle

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Chelle,
If you'd like to place the ball back in his court, simply cease initiating communication.

The only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested in her or not is to see if HE pursues HER. So cease initiating and see if he steps forward. If he doesn't, then walk.

In the meantime, you might be interested in reading this piece, written by a man:

http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2011/09/dont-initiate-contact.html

KK said...

Hi Mirror and everyone!,

As I previously posted here before, I am doing a bit of the online dating too.

I spoke with a man about 3 weeks ago, he initiated (how are you, looking to meet new people, etc) Just basic 'getting to know you' stuff. His last message he said he hoped to chat with me some more - and nothing since (I feel he was leaving it up to me to do the work), I haven't sent anything or 'chased' him and I'm continuing to speak with others as well.
I guess this is true NC huh? Feels very different from if it were to occur with someone else - I'm not 'emotionally invested'. I'm very relaxed.

Another man, who seems very mature and 'philosophical' has messaged me saying he liked my profile along with: "My philosophy is that we have nothing really to lose - we can chat, maybe eventually meet up, and if we click, great! And if we don't, well, at least we tried. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you never know who will be your next best friend or enemy or lover or partner, so there's no harm trying. You know?" (he's also a Taurus) and just by his profile, seems very particular. "Coherent sentences are mandatory" LOL

I like the fact that he's open and willing to 'try'. I waited a couple days to reply, his entire message was long compared to others. So I sent a few lines back today and dropped the ball back in his court if he'd like to chat more.

I agree with his philosophy and am trying to live that way too - putting myself out there and not having any fear, going with the flow (no pressure) and being open to what may come my way! Along with positivity wherever I can find it, and 'self growth'.

MOA, you're a big part of that too, so thank you again!

NM BABE said...

hi mirror,
I am dating online and met this guy, I must he is a wonderful guy, caring, understanding and really funny,we have been talking for two months now. He is 51 years old and much older than me but we are Okay with our age gap. He told me he is looking for a woman to marry and have a family. He left me his email adress and told me to check his profile and if I was intrested I could give him my email adress. he intiated contact by sending emails to me i later asked him if he had watsapp but this time I was the one who contacted him firs?t,as I had not given him my number . I know I made a mistake.... when we first started talking on watsapp he told me he had to other women he was talking to other women from other countries so I don't know if there are more, he closed his profile two days after he gave me his email adress as he told me he wanted to concentrate on knowing someone as he wanted to marry.
At first we, never used to talk much as he always told me he was busy and at times tired and told me he wanted a lady who can understand him.
as days went by and had become good friends and had started talking much I told him I felt I was starting most of our conversation (I know maybe I messed )but since then he starts conversations:,I even tried not to talk to him and found he had left me some messages, as we in diffrent countries so calling is expensive, he tries to communicate most of the time.
i send him some photos of me since he didnt have any photos of me and since then I have noticed that these days we talk most of the time and he is not busy for me anymore , I don't know if he is still dating other girls or he has made up his mind but I don't know if that's too early to conclude since we have not yet met though he is planning to come visit, he always tells me how much he loves me, since he said it has been many years since he dated, and always talks how imagines me being his wife and having his kids, I hope its not too early to discuss such things as I feel I want a serious man and am ready to have a family, he talks to me of intimate things and I hope that is not bad he also send me a nude photo of him but not untill he asked me more than one time if I was Okay him sending and I told him am Okay, he also told me we didn't have to have sex before marriage but if I was Okay we could but am willing to wait,I hope he is not tricking me by being too nice.... I hope am doing the right thing as I don't want to do anything that will mess this relationship, please advice me

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous July 29, 6:23PM
Honey, a man that sends you nude photos of himself is NOT a gentleman. He's a man seeking sex. As well, I find it extremely hard to believe that a man wants to start a family at 51 years of age. If he has a child in two years, at 53 years of age, that means when his child is 20, he'll be 73. And I find it hard to believe that's a genuine desire of his because of that.

Gentlemen do NOT send nude photos of themselves dear - players do.

Be very careful here. His behavior is less than gentlemanly - and that's a very big red flag.

Anonymous said...

Hi I recently met two men online around the same time. After a few online conversations we exchanged numbers. With one we had a few phone conversations he invited me to his place I told him No thanks he got upset.The other we talked a few times and texts each other often nothing to much more

Maricel Howard said...

Hi I met a guy online we exchanged number he started texting me every day since then,he invited me dinner,so first date we went dinner,second date dinner again and the third date I went to his house and I made an Argentinian dish for him(I'm from Argentina)
He loved it we talked,danced,having wine everything was going perfect but he got mad at me because I called him pervert for something he said but I was just joking..ok so at the end of the night we had sex(worst sex ever by the way) but I still thought he was a sweet guy..next day I left in the morning he walked me to my car said he would keep in touch...that was about 8:30 am,sent me a text about 5:30 pm asking me how's your day? Wich it was weird because he was always sweet in his texts ..I said I'm ok

Maricel Howard said...

And he said he was extremely tired he had to work that day which it was a Saturday...after Saturday today it's Tuesday I didn't hear from him..he's Capricorn 40 years old..I don't get it I'm a mature 34 years old and I really like this guy..why he disappear when he was very interested in me...I really don't understand men these days..if you can answer my question would be great!
I love..love your blog..you are amazing!!!!

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror,your advice is really great!I met up with this guy online and we had a nice chat....talking about ourselves then one day he suggested we exchange numbers.I gave out mine first....but he didnt text or call,instead,he gave me his number as well.I feel that he should call first cause am very intrested in him....am a student and he is working...am afraid that if he doesnt initiate the conversation...I myt end up loosing him
..which I dont want to happen.What can I do to make him stay without looking desparate?My friend says that nowadays,its ok for girls to make the first move,otherwise I stand a big chance to loose him.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous August 8, 5:07PM,
"What can I do to make him stay without looking desparate?"

Nothing dear, because chasing a man looks desperate to men, no matter how you slice it. Sure, they'll sleep with you. Sure, they may even date you for a month or two. But most times, when it's the woman who initiates the relationship - they will leave/disappear on you eventually.

Why?

Because they were only half interested to begin with. You pushed it along, so they figured, "Okay why not" - they got laid, and then they moved on, seeking an individual that they are genuinely interested in.

When women chase/pursue men - most times, it ends in heartache for them.

"I may end up loosing him"

You can't lose something you never had dear.

"My friend says that nowadays,its ok for girls to make the first move"

Yea, I'm aware that many people erroneously believe that nowadays. But think about it, how many of the situations last more than 1-3 months? How many of those situations aren't on again, off again, on again, off again - landing in booty call hookup territory?

That's not a REAL relationship dear. That's called sleeping around and hooking up. It's not dating, it's hooking up. So if you want to hookup with a guy, then pursue him. But if you want a real, meaningful, genuine relationship with a man - let him be the man and take the lead.

And if he doesn't do that, then you know he wasn't genuinely interested and you saved yourself a bunch of heartache.

I do not know why women panic at the thought of a man "getting away." It's anxiety and it's fear of abandonment driving attractions like that - it's not genuine interest - it's FEAR.

Following the path to fear will never lead you to success dear.

"am afraid that if he doesnt initiate the conversation...I may end up loosing him"

Well as I've said, you don't have him right now - so you can't lose something you never had.

And if he doesn't initiate the conversation - then that signals he's not interested dear :-(

Instead of trying to force him to be interested or convince him to date you - think of it like this. . .WHY do you WANT to talk to a man that DOESN'T WANT to talk to YOU?

The only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested - is to see if he pursues her. Consider the advice from this man below, advising women NOT to pursue men:

http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2011/09/dont-initiate-contact.html

Anonymous said...

NM Babe, he sounds like a scammer. You can google "Romance scam" and you will understand more. There are many scammers on online dating sites. Take care

krazzy killer said...

If you fallow this advice your wasting your time being on one of these sites. The thing that sticks most in my mind as being very bad advice is the point about never contact first?

You work for one of those sites don't you? Your getting paid to keep the girls single and on the site right? lol

Better idea girls. Search. Read profiles and contact guys who you find interesting. answer every guy that contacts. And send him a text. Every girl wants to be chased. But this isn't real life. You only have the one chance and you can't tell who he is if you don't talk.

Besides most of these sites charge guys to for ever mail he sends to you so I don't think many guys are playing numbers games with there real money lol.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Krazzy Killer,
Umm. . .err, nice PUA name.

You know what isn't real life?

Entertaining the idea that women should answer every guy that contacts them on a dating site AND text them as well.

I get that certain types of men dig desperate women because they're easier to control and manipulate. . .but that's seriously pushing it dude.

First of all, do you have any idea, any idea at all. .how many contacts a woman can receive in just one day on those sites? An experiment on Match.com yielded 27 emails and 42 winks.

Are you seriously suggesting that women should put themselves at risk by providing their personal telephone number to dozens of men and text them all, waste hours upon hours of their personal time communicating with these men and portray themselves as extremely desperate by chasing around 69 men - every single day?

Additionally, some of these men send out "blanket" emails to dozens of women every day there (they will erroneously keep sending them to you month after month, not realizing you've already received their canned email before) - and you don't think they play numbers games on dating sites?

"If you follow this advice your wasting your time being on one of these sites."

Umm, I'd have to say that following your suggestions would be the big time suck my friend and would place many women in very dangerous, vulnerable positions with many men that are complete and total strangers.

You seem to have the perspective that women don't have options - and should therefore, jump on every single opportunity that comes along like a desperate fool.

And THAT isn't real life my friend.

Anonymous said...

Hi, Mirror

Thanks for the article. So informative. I didn't see this in the article, but thought I should bring this up. Women should not post pictures of their children on dating sites. I am on Match.com, and as a mother, I was shocked that women are doing this. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but my concern is we don't know what kind of men we are attracting on dating websites.

Dating is a scary thing, but dating online is scarier and discouraging. I consider myself attractive but most men who contact me are the ones I am not attractive to (funny how that goes), and the ones I find attractive, don't respond, and if they do, it's one of those 1 or 2 sentences only and then nothing. I became so discourage that I even lowered my standards as far as the "looks" department, and I paid the price. Funny how people think you might change your mind when you see them in person. This man looked nothing like his picture. Out of courtesy, I talked to him for 10 mins about the weather and told him I had to pick my child up. I don't care what a person looks like but when they lie, that is fraud to me. This person was 100x worst than Booger on Revenge of the Nerds. After my experience with him, I learned to request for more than 1 picture.

After 5 months on Match.com, I have come to the conclusion that most people, usually the ones that are more attractive, are only there to see how many "hits" they can get or "look at me" kind of thing, or they are not ready to date at all. I might be wrong. What do you think?

There are times I fear I will grow old alone, but I realized that I rather be lonely and happy and hopefully, when I am not looking, Prince Charming will come my way.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous August 12, 5:08PM,
I agree dear that dating is scary for women and dating online requires even more careful thought and self protection.

"I have come to the conclusion that most people, usually the ones that are more attractive, are only there to see how many "hits" they can get or "look at me" kind of thing, or they are not ready to date at all. I might be wrong. What do you think?"

I think you have a point there, and I have a theory as to why it seems that way on those sites.

One word, I believe, is the culprit - narcissistic.

Online dating sites provide narcissistic individuals the perfect environment to receive attention, adoration, ego inflation, entertainment (i.e. games at others expense), and the lack of intimacy online feeds into their "lack of empathy" traits.

In otherwords, sites like that draw narcissistic individuals to them in droves. Which is why women need to be hyper vigilant about placing barriers and filters in place, to properly "vet" someone before proceeding. Because a large percentage of individuals there aren't worth your time and energy and are, as you stated, simply there for a ego rub and have no real intention of forming a true, meaningful relationship.

"I realized that I rather be lonely and happy and hopefully, when I am not looking, Prince Charming will come my way."

I shared this in the comments here on another piece recently, but this seems like an appropriate time to share it again. In the movie, "Under the Tuscan Sun," one of the strong female characters in the movie said to the lead female character something along the lines of:

When I was a child, I used to chase lightening bugs. I'd spend hours attempting to catch them, to no avail. One day, I just gave up. And I laid down in the grass and fell asleep. When I woke up, I was covered in lady bugs. They were crawling all over me.

And there you have it dear :-)

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror,
I posted in the "platonic" section of a social site recently, to see if anyone could relate to having a sports injury (and I was a bit curious about the type of guys on there).

I've exchanged about 9 emails total with one guy who recovered from a terrible accident who is younger than me (23). I know it's just words so far but he's probably one of the most encouraging, mentally strong guys I've talked to.

I'm starting to pick up on something "off" though and I wanted to know if you sense the same from what I describe below?

In his first message, I felt it might be red flag that he told me I could text him (he must be a numbers game guy!) - but it was in the context of me feeling like crap and he was offering it incase I wanted to talk. Plus he offered me advice on recovery, and was very positive, so I decided to reply.

He shared his story about going through multiple surgeries and how it was tough going through recovery. It genuinely touched me, and I said it was nice talking to someone who related to what I was feeling.

As emails go on, he started saying... maybe we were meant to meet for a reason... that maybe he was my motivation (to heal)... and said to not cut ties...that he will only if I do.

Sounded like a guy's fantasy talk, so I didn't really encourage him. Just said his story made an impact on me, and I looked forward to a future with more travelling, good food, and surprises.

He then replied with something that made me go HUH: "I think we should travel.. yeah it's a bit of a long shot...but it's worth asking."

Is this a GLARING RED FLAG? First, this guy has NO idea what I look like (he didn't ask). I didn't ask for his either, since we were talking about injuries and it didn't seem appropriate. He barely knows me.

I also question if he messaged me because I'm older than him (perhaps an ego boost? even though I'm only 28).

I can't tell how much of it is really my own insecurities surfacing, or it's my gut saying... hey this guy seems really nice but a bit off, pay attention.

It's confusing because 1) he's younger than me and I question his motives 2) I know nothing about him - not even basic profile details 3) I am not really sure how to proceed since I didn't meet him on a dating site. Do I treat him like I met him off a dating site?

I really like his personality more than the other guys I've been talking to on dating sites lately, and started thinking if he was genuine and pursued me I may give him a chance even though I've never dated someone younger.

I think he may have tried the "let's travel" line, so I can say "Uhmm we don't know each other well enough" and that could lead to him sending his picture, then I'd reciprocate, and he could see if he finds me attractive.

What do you think, mirror? Thanks for your insight!

Vivian

Anonymous said...

Mirror.. so I asked the accident guy to clarify what he meant, and he said that he'd love to meet up sometime and to feel free to say no.

And that if not travel maybe him and I could adventure on a staycation (I mentioned that I may go on a staycation if my injury prevents me from going abroad).

I'm getting spooked! He still does not know what I look like, but wants to meet up. Huh??

He did say to feel free to say no, but I still feel pressured.

Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
I think there are alarm bells going off in your head dear, and I don't think you should ignore them, at least for right now, keep your guard up.

He's moving really fast here and he's doing things out of order so-to-speak, and not properly. What's the rush, ya' know? Why is he so eager? Why doesn't he have some standards? Meaning, why DOESN'T he care what you look like - will he just take anything that comes along, ya' know? I'm not saying he should be shallow, but I am saying that it's human nature to want to know what someone looks like prior to a blind vacation with them, LOL. And it's also human nature to want to speak to someone on the phone first, too.

He's young, he's pushing a bit too hard and he's not proceeding properly if he's interested. As a result, you need to do your homework here with him. You need to get to know him MUCH better first. He's acting like he's moving fast for a quick online hookup of sorts and he doesn't even care about the woman herself, he seems to care more about the hookup and what HE is going to get (expect) from that.

When he starts expressing more of an interest in YOU and not the SITUATION itself, then you can drop your guard a bit. But as long as he's focused on hooking up and meeting somehow and NOT on you personally, as a woman (what you look like, what you like, what you're like to talk to, what your background is like, etc.) - I wouldn't take this seriously because he appears to be a young guy attempting to quickly create a "situation" for himself.

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for the advice, I feel like I now know how to operate online, I am emailing this guy at the moment, he wants to meet for coffee, we haven't talked on the phone, he just sent me an email this morning with his cell so I can text him, after reading your blog, he is supposed to pursue me, I plan on texting him tomorrow, telling him we need to talk on the phone before meeting and go ing him my number to call me, what do you think?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous August 13, 11:04AM,
Yep, that's exactly what you do. But you don't explain yourself when doing that and you word it in an encouraging way, such as:

"That sounds great, I'm looking forward to meeting you and talking to you. Here's my number, give me a call. I'll be around tonight or tomorrow night."

And that's all you say, you leave it at that. You don't explain why you're doing this and you give him two days to take action. If he doesn't do that within those two days, it's a sign that he's not willing to do the work involved in dating - he's a lazy man seeking an easy situation and a woman that's willing to do all the work to move the relationship forward.

And if he skips the phone call and pushes for the meeting instead, another red flag that he's not willing to proceed at a pace that YOU are comfortable with and instead, he's rushing along attempting to get HIS own needs met.

A man that is genuinely interested will be more than happy to pick up the phone and call you at your invitation and move at your pace dear :-)

Anonymous said...

Goodmorning, I sent him the text like you recommended this morning, he sent one right back asking who I was, I sent one back with just my name, he sent another with a smiley face saying Goodmorning, what is that?is it some childish game??

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
I wouldn't have sent that via text. The point was for HIM to be the first to contact YOU via text.

"he just sent me an email this morning with his cell so I can text him"

I meant to simply respond to his EMAIL with your phone number - so that he could enter your number into his phone and make the first move via text :-)

Anywho, the fact that he didn't know who you were, when he had clearly provided you with his cell number and an invite to text him - tells me he's doing this (giving out his number) to multiple women. As a result, he's got no clue who's texting him because he's given it out to a number of women already :-(

Next time - no text - email the response and let HIM take the lead when moving the conversation from the online world to the mobile world :-)

KK said...

My last post should've been put here. I completely forgot about this piece!

Glad I remembered, I needed a few reminders: 1) Taurus is attempting to rush things. 2) There hasn't been any real, 'genuine' communication - no phone calls, not even the exchange of numbers or real names. - I stepped back and had to re-evaluate for a bit, I could've easily made a huge mistake!

I went over his message again a few times, read my previous one to him. I think he got the impression or somehow assumed I was insinuating at 'meeting' soon - I said I would be open to it, so we'll just have to see how things go. Then because we were conversing about our schedules, I had said things were so busy right now, should settle down a bit soon. Then the date ideas/suggestions. He might have jumped the gun.
But certainly I didn't mean "OMG yes, I want to meet you tomorrow!".- Hmm.. maybe that's what he's used to (women falling all over him, appearing desperate) Not me, NOPE! :)

Anyway, made a decision - nothing is happening this weekend with him. I've written out a message to him but have not sent it, I might do it later.
I mirrored his 11 day lapse before, and I think he might have picked up the 'hint', he was much quicker this time, so I feel as though I should 'reward' or reinforce that and reply today or tomorrow and place the ball back in his court with this:

"I have to be honest and say I wouldn't feel comfortable rushing anything right away (especially since we don’t even know eachother’s names or haven’t actually spoken first. I know schedules can be conflicting and everybody’s busy – it’s a good time for you right now but not so much for me, next week/weekend sometime could work for me and it may not be good for you. Go figure haha.
I am looking forward to meeting you though at some point and talking to you. So if you're interested and up for a quick chat sometime Fri/Sat, here's my number, feel free to give me a call ________".

And that feels good!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@KK,
Good for you dear - you have a say in the matter as well and if he's a good man, he'll certainly understand. . .and he will follow through with the proper etiquette :-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much Mirror for your thoughts about the 23 year old guy. You always give me this feeling like the calm eye in a storm.

I was feeling all over the place - lots of emotions. Thankfully not of the "I miss him so much and need to reach out" kind, but of the "WTF this guy seems so nice and awesome, but why do I feel pressured and stressed out like I'm being cornered?"

I see it for what it is - and he is likely pushing too fast and acting improperly due to his age and wanting to hook up (perhaps it works on younger girls who are spontaneous).

I've decided to lay back and see if he'll re-read what he wrote and hopefully come to the conclusion that he scared me away. But no expectations, guys like him will probably take him many more years to learn if it ever happens, LOL.

Vivian

Anonymous said...

Goodmorning MOA, this guy and I have been emailing each other today, he replys promptly but does not seem to ask me anything about me, I feel like Iam the only one asking questions, how do I turn this around?NC?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
If he doesn't ask questions to keep the conversation going, let the conversation drop - and let HIM figure out that he needs to "engage" you in conversation to make it a two way exchange.

Anonymous said...

First of all I love this website! I think the articles are brilliant.

Really need advice on the following please:

My old flame contacted me on a dating website 12 years after we split up. He has been the only love of my life. We were very serious years ago and I broke it off because it was too serious. Eight months later I tried to get back with him but it was too late. He had met someone else. I was absolutely devastated and he knew it. Took me years and years and years to get over him.

Fast forward 12 years. I am on a dating website. He contacts me and asks to meet up. I am over the moon. He never meets me and I presume he has got cold feet. 8 months later I hear from him again. We meet and he says I was one of the great loves of his life, how he threw away something good. He wants to take me out to dinner, show me his big house. I readily agree. He hugged me tightly at the end of the night and I think he tried to kiss me on the lips. I turned my head away thinking not so fast. Maybe on the next date. It's been 12 years after all.... I regret that now because I feel I must have given him the wrong impression. Because he never asked to meet up again and there were just a series of mundane texts.

A few months after that he suggested again to which I agreed. But then he would disappear off for a couple of weeks and then send me a text about the weather or work. No mention of meeting. This happened on quite a few occasions. Would ask to meet up but then never follow it up. This went on for a year I am ashamed to say. He met up with me again after a year and I thought we got on really well. He asked when I would be free to meet up again at the end of the evening and I said most days. I was really surprised when I never heard from him.

Eventually I emailed him and asked me why he had contacted me after 12 years? Why he asked to meet up but never followed through? I said if he wanted to get back with me, we could talk about things. But these friendship texts would have to come to an end.

He e-mailed back saying it would be good to talk about things. I was overjoyed again. However an hour before we were due to meet, he cancelled saying he was too tired and maybe another time. I was so angry I told him there won't be a next time. He replied sorry you feel that way but ok if that is what you want.

I was devastated again. He continued to view my dating profile after that which further confused me even further because there was never a message. He has stopped doing that now. However it still hurts because he is still on that dating site and still occasionally logging on. It really upsets me because I think why didn't he want me and why confuse me like that?

I don't think he is married because he is listed on FB as single and he has an up to date photo on the dating site. And he still logs on...

Really cut up over the whole thing because I don't understand why he would treat me like this when we were so close years ago.

Would appreciate your help and advice on this because I am truly devastated.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous August 17, 3:07PM,
Well dear, it appears that he's caught up in the online dating rotation - so many women, so little time - and he's stringing you along as a potential option of sorts :-(

I also feel that possibly, he's casually dating right now - and he likes it that way. He likes having all of those options and the ability to walk away from them when he sees fit. And I feel that with you, secretly inside, he knows he doesn't want to do that to you. As a result, he's being flaky. One minute he thinks, "Okay, let me see" and then the next minutes he's like, "You know she would want a relationship. Are you ready for that again? No, so don't kick that up."

I think he's enjoying being single right now dear. And I think he knows that you'd expect a dating situation between the two of you to turn into a relationship ("I said if he wanted to get back with me, we could talk about things.") - so he's not prepared to actually go through with that (a relationship). I think he's enjoying dating around and he doesn't want a relationship right now.

As a result, he's not choosing door number 2 that's labeled "relationship territory." :-(

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA, so this guy I met online keeps liking my photos, I have five photos and so far he likes three, emailed me that he is on a business trip till Wed, wants to meet but I told him we need to talk on the phone first which he agreed, Am I being too uptight with the photo thing?I feel like he is only after my body!

Anonymous said...

I have a question about online dating...

I recently tried breaking off a on and off again relationship with a commitment phobe guy who has basically messed me up psychologically. I have a very low self-esteem, brief moments of depression and feel like other than him nobody else is able to love me. He was very insecure about my accomplishments and used mind games (knowing he was my first relationship) to make me feel like he is the only one out there for me.

I decided to give online dating a chance and started talking to a guy online last Sunday. We exchanged e-mails back and forth and he asked for my number. We then texted each other back and forth and decided to meet for coffee that evening. He drove an hour to get to my town to see me,

We had a wonderful time and talked for 3 hours until it was very late. He texted me when he got home and let me know we had a great time. Also, he walked me to my car and gave me a kiss. He asked me if I can go to his town next time to his place so he can cook for me.

I let him know straight away that I am not going to sleep with me on a second date (he was hinting sexually). He said it is fine that he likes me because I am a nice girl and have a good head on my shoulders. I also said I will not go to his town because I have never been there and I don't know anything and anyone there. I asked to meet at a neutral place in my city. Wednesday he texted me and asked to meet me here on Friday or Saturday evening. I had to decline because i have a relative visiting from another country. I asked him if he wants to do anything next week and the next morning he told me to let him know about it.

I still have distorted thinking and believe men are only after one thing and I will not find anyone decent but my ex (I need to see a therapist). Should I text him back about meeting on Saturday or is he just out for fun? He is 38, so he is pretty mature. I also feel like he will not communicate back (my ex used to play those games). Basically, I am scared to date even though I had an online dating profile.

How to overcome it and how to proceed?

Thank you!!! I apologize for the lengthy message.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous August 31, 2:05AM,
If you're not ready to do this, to date, then I think you should be good to yourself and allow yourself more time - alone. I know that jumping back into the saddle is a positive step, however, if you really think you're struggling with fear right now, then I don't suggest dating at this time. Because you could create a self-fulfilling prophecy here in that, if you enter the online dating realm unprepared and vulnerable, you can fall prey to the scandalous men there.

I'm not saying he's scandalous, I'm just saying you're fearful and vulnerable right now - which isn't a good head space to have when entering online dating. So if you need more time, take it.

If you think you're ready to date, regarding this man - it's too early to tell dear, it's only been one date. And the point of dating is to get to know one another, so you can make these decisions based on your experiences and observations of him.

One thing I will say is don't go to this man's house for dinner on a second date. If you do that, you'll be dating on his sofa from that point forward. Once these guys get lazy, they get comfortable and complacent. Your job when dating is to keep them on their toes, keep them interested, keep them engaged in you, get what I'm saying, LOL ;-)

Keep him engaged in you by refusing those lazy dates that lead to easy hookups for these guys. Once they get you in the confines of their home and they start turning the screws and applying their will - it becomes a pressure cooker situation for the woman. And I generally don't advocate that women put themselves through that early on. Because many women get caught up in it all, think they can handle a casual encounter, wake up the next day, and by the following evening, they're already beating themselves up for it and feeling bad about themselves. And when the guy disappears, it becomes even worse.

The reality is that casual sex can be VERY toxic to women - it can be self-destructive. Many women believe they can handle it, but a month or so later, lots find themselves crying tears and tearing themselves down, wondering what's wrong with them.

In my opinion, casual sex for women is not meant to be taken casually - at all. Many times, it has very serious ramifications and in the end, there's a hefty price to pay for it.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

I'd test this one a bit, given that he's trying to get you back to his place on the second date, which is presumptuous of him in my opinion. I wouldn't respond - and I'd wait to see if HE steps forward again. If he does, and he's offering an evening on his sofa for the second date again, you say something like:

"Oh that sounds nice, but I've already made plans that day (lie if you have to). However, I am free on [a date 3 days later] and I'm going to [a place in your city], we can meet there for dinner if you like."

The point is to:

1) Refuse "at home hang out" date invitations by informing him you've already made plans.
2) Suggest another date at a later time.
3) Suggest what you're willing to do on that date.

If he doesn't "get that" and keeps pushing for the at home hangout date, then that's a red flag. Truthfully, the fact that men even expect this in the first few dates is a red flag. Gentlemen won't ask this of a woman because they want the woman to be in an environment where she's comfortable and at ease, so she'll enjoy his company and continue to see him. Gentlemen do not put women in awkward, stressful, uncomfortable and frankly dangerous situations where there's too much privacy and too much pressure between two total strangers.

Like I said, that's presumptuous of him. He's a complete stranger and he thinks it's a good idea for a woman to place herself alone, at a total strangers will, in his apartment - on the second date? Nah, definitely not a good idea.

You'll be okay dating as long as you're properly looking out for yourself dear. And if you think you need more time, then by all means take it. And if you think you need therapy, then by all means use those tools that are available to you.

Just stand strong, be confident, be secure - and most importantly - KNOW YOU'RE VALUE dear ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you very much for your advice. He calls/texts me every day and we decided to meet up for dinner this Wednesday evening. I will go with a positive attitude and see what will happen.

Anonymous said...

Love, love, love this article! Every do & don't is spot on. As a veteran online dater, I've tried I practice all of these and find that when I do, it certainly weeds out the players.
The only thing I would add is this:
If a person deletes their ad immediately after the first or second date, be very wary and proceed with caution. This could have been done to give the illusion that you're so special, they have no interest in anyone but you. One can't possibly know this after one or two dates.
The other reason the ad was deleted so fast, is they have several on a string already, and have plenty of options to keep them busy for a while. If there's one- there could be ten.
I learned this from very recent personal experience, unfortunately.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the Do's and Don'ts. My question is how to get your profile noticed and not be the one to initiate an email.

When I see a profile I'm interested in, how are they going to know I'm interested unless I send an initial "hello" email? Confused and frustrated in the online dating world.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous September 9, 6:04PM,
Statistics show that women have MUCH higher chances of a long term committed relationship with men who were first interested in THEM - which is why I advocate letting the man come to you.

"how are they going to know I'm interested unless I send an initial "hello" email?"

Just about every dating website lets the profile owner see who's viewed their profile. They don't need to know you're interested - they need to be ATTRACTED to you. If they see that you've viewed their profile AND they are attracted to you, THEY will contact YOU :-)

As a woman, that's how you avoid walking into a ticking time bomb of a situation online (having a man that's only half interested feign interest just to sleep with you because you came after him and made it easy for him.)

Anonymous said...

I'm so glad I stumbled on this site because I'm a single mother that's been on match.com a long time on and off but could not figure out why I kept falling victim to these jerks you describe. It's hard enough raising a child on my own and trying to date. This has truly enlightened me to make better choices, stop pursuing and let theses guys pursue me if they are genuinely interested. For the first time in a while, I'll be going on my 3rd date this Friday. This guy initiated making sure I new he wanted another date after our first 2 meetings. The reason I was looking up this type of blog was because I wanted to know if guys met online expected the 3rd date to involve sex. When I suggested the 3rd date we go see a movie he casually suggested or we could rent. I thought that was an invitation for disaster since I think sex too early in my experiences never turns. So I suggested bowling. It is irritating though that this guy won't call me to ask me out, he only texts. The last time he called was because he was waiting on my text response on if he could pick me up at my house for a 2nd date. I texted I'd already left to be on time for that date... then he called to apologize. What is up with texting.. I would rather talk on the phone than text but guys now a days prefer texting. Mind you I 27, he'ss 33. I must have messed up initially by not telling him when we were emailing to call me. What are your thoughts on this texting rather than calling? As time progresses, texting is the new thing am I wrong? By the way we have hit it off so far but hopefully the pitcher of beer on the 2nd date wasn't just liquid courage lol!

Anonymous said...

One more thing, it is irritating this guy in particular won't say my name, what's up with that, he couldn't have forgotten. It's the user name on my profile.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous September 11, 2:36AM,
I just watched a program last night dear that conducted a poll with a small group of men. They asked the men when sex was expected and their answer? The 3rd date.

"I thought that was an invitation for disaster"

Disaster for you - sex for him. I'd refuse to place myself in that type of pressure cooker situation with him this early on dear.

"What are your thoughts on this texting rather than calling?"

Based on my experience, men who prefer text over phone conversations - are looking for "buddies" to hang out with. They never really lift a relationship off the ground, but they DO call for last minute dates that I believe they hope lead to late night hookups.

In my experience, if a man doesn't want to get real over the phone, it's because he doesn't plan to get "real" - EVER.

"texting is the new thing am I wrong?"

Only if the woman permits it dear. If you ignore those texts, interested men WILL pick up the phone to reach you, while players will simply fade away in search of easier prey.

"it is irritating this guy in particular won't say my name"

He sounds really "avoidant" to me and possibly emotionally unavailable, as if he's not going to get close to anyone and instead, prefers the distance that text and lack of true "connection" via conversation provides.

Anonymous said...

"Don’t: Ever go meet him without exchanging several emails first and speaking on the phone several times. Many men will attempt to rush things along (then wonder why they’re disappointed once they get it).

The courtship process is exactly that – a process. If you truly want to connect with someone in an authentic manner, then the process needs to be authentic, too, the tried and true way. Otherwise, he’ll be (secretly) disappointed that you gave in so quickly, he won’t take you seriously and you’ll either end up a hook up – or dead. And I mean that, girls. Never go meet a strange man you met on the Internet that doesn’t even have the common courtesy to exchange conversation with you first or even ask your damn name before asking to meet up with you. That’s a disaster waiting to happen."

Hmm I definitely see your point but speaking on the phone several times?? Granted I'd never agree to meet someone without exchanging numbers and talking first. But isn't the point to meet in person to see how things are? I prefer 2 or so substantial emails from him and if he makes it go longer than that i say it was nice talking to him and see if HE suggests talking on the phone. Then I like just a few exchanges of text and 1 or 2 phone calls to decide if I want to meet or not. They usually want to meet me at that point and I don't see why extend it.


Otherwise I feel like I'm wasting talking on the phone and texting some guy I may never meet/isn't who he presented himself to be. And I have better to do with my time than spend a week everyday on the phone with someone who may turn out to be an "e-friend" This is why online dating isn't for me though. All this hype building to meeting up and most of the time they are totally different face to face.

~Lioness of the Sun

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA, i just want to ask you about long distance relationship. Is it advisable in you opinion ? I have had long distance communication with a couple of guys online but on both separate occasions thing didn't take off. On one occasion, we did meet but being in different countries, it's difficult to continue even though we both quite like each other. I sort of giving up on internet dating thing as it's difficult to find someone in my area and only long distance seems to offer some interesting choices. Thanks in advance for your views. Discouraged One.

Anonymous said...

Probably a little too late for me, but thought I'd ask for confirmation of what I think I already know:
--Met a guy on match.com. Mistake #1: I emailed him first.
--Within minutes he emailed me back.
--By end of day #2, he had given me his phone number.
--Mistake #2: I texted him 4 hours later.
--He initiates all contact the next 3 days. I get a good morning, good night, and several "in between texts". He came across as sweet, level headed, and interested.
--Day #5. I tell him I'd rather not talk because the website has screwed with my head. He is upset and says he is a genuine guy and had hoped he could meet me. Within an hour I cave and tell him I'd like to continue being friends. He says "Friends is good, for now".
--Day #7. I tell him I am shopping. He asks for pictures. I thought he was joking. Later that night he asks where his "sexy selfies" were. At this point I get sick, thinking he's like all other guys and just wants a hookup. I tell myself "Ok, just go with it, have fun for once in your life". So... I send some. At that point is becomes a very sexual ordeal. Mistake #3!!!
--The next day I tell him I'm upset because he only wants sex. He assures me that is not the case, he is very interested in me.
--He makes what he says is a joke, I told him about a quote (If it changes your life, let it quote). He asked if I was going to change his life, then immediately asked me "Or, are you going to f this up?" Having not even MET him, that upset me and I blow up at him. We work it all out, but he tells me he's not going to walk on eggshells.
--Communication somewhat died down after that.. he still texted but not as much.
--Within 2 weeks I am in his town on business (he is 2 hours away training for a new job for 2 months). I am there for a week. He see's me 4 times in 6 days. Sex was involved 2 days. We argue on the first date, both drunk off wine, as I accussed him of only wanting sex yet again.
--ON our last date, he took me to a very romantic resteraunt. All went VERY well. At end of date I ask if he'd like to stay in touch, he said yes. I asked why he had become kinda distant, he said because my behavior kinda turned him off (saying he only wanted sex, he said he felt "attacked"). I told him something along the lines of "I won't ever see you again" and made a sad face. (Because he is out of town for 2 months and is a pilot so he will be traveling frequently). HE told me I would be seeing him again, but that he was in control. I laughed and said "whatever". He restated "I will be in control of this and when we see each other". That left a bad taste in my mouth for whatever reason.
--I left the next morning, he had returned to his sweet self, having texted me good morning as he did in the first week.
--THe next day I got a text around 8 pm. We talked for a bit.
--Following day: nothing.
--The very next day I initiated contact and he only responded with one text and that was it.
--Ignored me the day after.
--Tonight he asked how I was doing. I responded 2 hours later and he didn't say another word.

At this point, I am NOT chasing him. I even made it a point to not immediately respond to his text.

Thoughts?? Other than back off and let him come to me? He is on match.com atleast 2-3 times a day (yes, I check!).

Since he asked for "sexy selfies" within 4 days of contact, I assume that is a big red flag as well? Along with "I will be in control of this"??

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous September 18, 10:02PM,
Well that depends on several factors dear. It can be successful if both parties are dedicated to it, care for one another and are mature enough to withstand the ups and downs and frustrations that the distance can create.

I wouldn't be too discouraged by two situations falling short of expectations dear. When dating, particularly when online dating, you're on a search and many times, that requires a lot of exploration before finding what you're looking for.

For instance, did you know that one study concluded that today's modern woman, on average, whether online or offline, will kiss approximately 72 frogs - before finding her Prince?

The didn't mean modern women sleep with an average of 72 men before finding love, they just meant that on average, she'll explore 72 different male options before finding the one that suits her.

The reality is that dating is a lot of work, it's much like a second job honestly these days. Searching, filtering, exploring, walking away, moving closer - it's a lot of work and finding love does not happen overnight. And even when you find it, as complicated as human beings are, sometimes it's a lot of work to keep that love afloat.

As a result, you have to be prepared for the long haul dear. The chances of you meeting your match in only 2, 3, 4 or even 5 different dates - is actually quite rare. Sure, you can find people you click with and form an attachment to or have strong sexual chemistry with, but finding true, lasting love - requires a bit more and isn't that easy.

Once you accept this, the pressure of dating is relieved. Meaning, you no longer place expectations on every single man you date. You realize some may be a slight match, some may not even be close and some may look like they're going to go somewhere only to fall short. It's the nature of the beast dear.

Understand that dating and searching for love is not a simple task and understand that it will not happen overnight or in a few different dates. And once you do that, you can relax a bit and enjoy the adventures that dating offers a bit more as well :-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous September 18, 11:01PM,
"I tell him I'd rather not talk because the website has screwed with my head."

Never insinuate to a strange man that you're not "well" dear - ever. It makes you vulnerable to the fact that they can then use that to manipulate you, view you as weak and attempt to take advantage of you. Even if it's truly how you feel, you do not tell strangers that. If you do, they may try to take advantage of you.

"Later that night he asks where his "sexy selfies" were."

If I were you, I would've ended it right there as he completely gave away his true intentions (sex).

"I tell myself "Ok, just go with it, have fun for once in your life". So... I send some."

Honey, many women view this sort of thing like that, like "oh it's fun." But the reality is, in the end, it's NOT fun, it's VERY damaging - to YOU and your self esteem. There IS a price to pay for participation in this sort of thing dear and most women, later, feel bad about themselves for participating.

It's actually very self-destructive behavior :-(

"I accussed him of only wanting sex yet again."

Honey don't do that. Particularly when YOU are PARTICIPATING in this type of behavior. At that point, it's like the pot calling the kettle black. You're accusing him of only wanting sex, yet YOU are participating in this hyper sexual behavior yourself - which can be construed as hypocrisy.

"I will be in control of this and when we see each other"

BIG red flag - and indicative of a huge sense of entitlement. He now feels entitled to control you and this entire scenario.

I'd remove myself from this entire situation as it went wrong from day one and honestly, is somewhat beyond repair now as the damage is done. You never get a second chance to make a first impression and I fear that he will now "back burner" you while he continues his search :-(

I'd remove myself from this situation, I'd answer none of his future correspondence and I would never see him again as there's an incredibly high chance this type of man could hurt you very badly by emotionally toying with you. He now knows your weakness, he has now already slept with you and he now feels he has control.

I wouldn't even fight him on that, he's not the kind of man that's worth fighting for. Instead, I would retreat into self preservation and protection mode and I would rid him from my life so that he couldn't hurt me further.

Anonymous said...

I am Anonymous 11:01, Sept 18th.

Thanks so much for the response!! I can't even believe I let myself get caught up in this. I have never sent anyone other than a real boyfriend naughty pictures and I have never slept with a man that I have not dated for atleast a month or two. I DID get wrapped up in the idea that I should just go out and have fun for once in my life not be such a "good" girl and it has definitely backfired on me. I am hurt.

I really do blame myself for giving him all the tools to hurt me.
--Within 2 days telling him I'd rather not talk,I was done with the site because I'm tired of the games the men on there play, blah, blah,blah. In that very conversation, I also commented to him that he seems like such a nice guy and that I am used to dating the jerks. Told him I HAD dated a nice guy in the past and that I treated that man like crap, that I guess in a way, I prefer jerks. He then told me he is a nice guy but if that is what it took, he'd bring out his d@ck side every now and then.
Maybe that has SOME to do with why he started initiating contact less.

--So, is it very likely that really all he is looking for is sex? Not just from me, but from all girls on there? He claims he wants a relationship. In our very first set of emails exchanged, he said he had met a lot of good friends on there, but no one that has held his attention or is that special..yet. :) And that, that right there, made me want to be that girl.
I also later told him that I felt like I should not have sent him the pictures but that I was scared if I didn't, he'd just move on to the next girl (And NOW I realize that would have been ideal!!). He stated that was not the case, that he had asked girls in the past for pictures and they didn't send them and he continued talking to them.
My heart dropped when he asked me for pictures. At that point I think I knew it was "over", that he had probably asked many many other women for the same thing. Before he had asked for the pictures I had really felt like this might really be a great guy and it would work out. :(

--I really do feel like I am on the backburner. He never stopped looking online. From day #1 to now, he is on there 2-3 times a day.

--I almost feel like last night's text was just a quick text he sent to see if I was still "there". He asked ONE question. 1.5 hours later I respond and am met with dead silence. I guess maybe he just wants to see that I am still holding on. ??

--The "I'm in control, I will be in control of when we see each other" statement he made was supposedly a joke. I called him out on it and he looked at me like I was crazy and he said he was just joking. Kinda weird "joke" if you ask me.

--Same goes for the "are you going to F this up" comments he made. In the first 2 weeks he asked me "are you going to f this up"? I got mad at him for saying such a thing and he claims it was just a joke and that I need to lighten up because he will not be walking on eggshells.

So so so many lessons learned in this experience!!! Taking it all forward with me and better luck next time.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror - I'm really confused about this Gemini guy and would love to hear what you think.

He actually messaged me last year, but I barely remember him.

Since he was persistent this time around (he wrote, "I'm going to keep messaging you until I get through, lol"), I decided to chat a bit.

When he asked if I wanted to grab a coffee, I kind of dance around it, because I am not ready to meet him yet.

I end up giving him a hard time because he kept going on about how everyone gets him wrong and that he's a genuinely nice guy who's a total dork.. and how he used to be 400lbs - but his pictures give me a different impression.

He's very tall, has tattoos on his arm, blonde hair, pretty muscular, had 2 pics up where he cropped out the woman, 2 that he took in his bathroom (ughs), and 2 at parties. He even looks a bit cunning to me (his eyes).

He looks like the type who would attract petite, cute, and long blond hair girls.

When I pointed out on how he's projecting a different image - one that attracts women who are into players - shortly after, he took down the pictures where he cropped the women and a party one.

Then I asked him what we had in common - and he took the time to go through my entire profile, and respond to a couple of things.

My gf's telling me to just go meet him, but I can't tell if 1) I'm afraid of getting hurt again because he reminds me of Libra guy or 2) there is real danger, and he's all BS.

He messages me every day, and if we're both online, he'll message back within minutes. He seems to be taking all my criticisms well, and thinks I'm strong-minded.

My gut is signaling something is off (otherwise I wouldn't be writing this at all) - but there's enough doubt in me to think there's a possibility I am throwing away a genuine guy who's misunderstood.

Do you think I can judge him based on how he looks (a player) and completely disregard his words about how caring and genuine he is? Or is it too soon to know?

I have no regrets cutting off the musician before even meeting as I felt like he wanted a fan-type of girl, but this Gemini guy...I am just really confused.

Coincidentally, both him and Libra guy have their mars in scorpio.

Hope you can help clear up some of my mental confusion, thanks so much!

- Vivian

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA,

I am the "Discouraged One" Anonymous September 18, 10:02PM who asked about long-distance relationship. Thank you so much for your encouragement as well as wise words. It's very much appreciated. I will think about what you say although I am still quite discouraged and decided will take a break from dating for a while.

I have another question that applies to both online and offline dating. If you know that a guy gives false information like his age, his education, his background on his profile or just what he tells me after we starts talking, do you think I should continue to talk to this person ?

In my particular case, this finding out that he has not been 100% truthfully with me happened after our long distance communication stopped so it was not the reason why we suspended our correspondence. It just happened in the process of me trying to come to grip with the situation afterward. Now I'm not even sure that what he's been telling me all along was true or not. Somehow I feel guilty that I shouldn't have tried to check him out but I wanted to be sure he was what he said he was and now that I have doubt, I feel even more devastated :-(

Is it wrong, dear MOA, in the future to check a guy out without him knowing (like I don't trust his words) and is lying about this kind of thing is a serious character flaw or not ? Should I trust him ? I mean he might think being quite much older than what he told me might mean nothing to him but for me it's not the real age that matters; it's the fact that he lied that is really upsetting :-(( I think trust is an especially important factor for the long distance relationship.

Thanks in advance for your advice, dear MOA.
Discouraged One

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
"he kept going on about how everyone gets him wrong and that he's a genuinely nice guy who's a total dork"

Well dear, I will say this - he's overcompensating. He keeps trying to convince you that he's a good guy. I'm a good girl - but I don't have to repeat that to folks over and over and over again, because I'm confident in my "truth." When someone isn't confident in their "truth" - they're insecure and they overcompensate for it because many times, what they're saying isn't true and they know it, so they keep repeating it in an attempt to get the other individual to "buy into" it.

Everytime I've met a guy that's looked like that and claimed that about himself - he's been the total opposite, LOL. And every one of them truly believes themselves to be a "good guy." They honestly do. Trouble is, they don't see how their behavior doesn't align with their words. They say one thing, then treat people poorly, then wonder why everyone has them pegged incorrectly.

Chances are this guy doesn't believe he's a bad guy, but the reality may be that he ends up treating people poorly, without even realizing it (due to his insecurities, which make people behave strangely without being conscience of it - they lack self-awareness.)

You can go meet him, there's no harm in that. You'll be better able to feel his "energy" as well, which should firm things up in your mind about him. After the meeting, don't go home with him and don't have more than 2-3 drinks when with him. End the night properly, thank him and excuse yourself to go home. If you do that, there's no harm in meeting him.

"My gut is signaling something is off"

You're probably sensing his insecurities and the fact that he's overcompensating.

"Do you think I can judge him based on how he looks (a player) and completely disregard his words about how caring and genuine he is?"

His looks will count for a little something as most people portray what's on the inside, on the outside, even without knowing it. And as far as his words go, yes, disregard those - and focus only on his ACTIONS.

If this guy is truly a good guy, he will be consistent, responsible, reliable and he won't push the "sex" card heavily with insinuations and that type of innuendo talk and he won't be pushy in his actions (touching you, trying to get close too soon, etc.)

But - if this one starts telling YOU to contact HIM and starts to signal HE wants to be chased and courted by YOU - forget him. If he says he'll call and then doesn't and starts playing games to see if YOU will chase HIM - forget it.

Because nine times out of ten, a player can't help himself and he will eventually resort to what's worked in the past for him - which is usually playing "too cool for school" with women, hanging back, being flippant and aloof - and seeing if the woman gives chase - otherwise known as "the game" - hence, the "player."

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Discouraged One,
"If you know that a guy gives false information like his age, his education, his background on his profile or just what he tells me after we starts talking, do you think I should continue to talk to this person?"

Absolutely not dear. If they're lying that early on and about those types of trivial things, chances are they are a pathological liar. And the definition of a pathological liar is:

"tells lies frequently, with no rational motive for doing so. . .terms applied by psychiatrists to the behavior of habitual or compulsive lying. . .defined as "falsification entirely disproportionate to any discernible end in view, may be extensive and very complicated, and may manifest over a period of years or even a lifetime". The individual may be aware they are lying, or may believe they are telling the truth, unaware that they are relating fantasies."

"I feel guilty that I shouldn't have tried to check him out"

You should ALWAYS check people out if you can, particularly when online dating.

"is lying about this kind of thing is a serious character flaw or not?"

Lying is never to be overlooked as it speaks to someone's character. It is always to be taken seriously and it is a character flaw.

"Should I trust him?"

Absolutely not.

"he might think being quite much older than what he told me might mean nothing to him"

That right there tells me he's there seeking sex. Because a genuine man seeking a real relationship would never lie about his age because if/when he finds a woman he wants to be with - he would not want to lose her because he lied about his age.

He's lying because he's only there to get laid and he doesn't care to be honest because he doesn't plan on being in a relationship.

Chances are he's a scoundrel that's seeking free and easy sexual hookups dear. He's not telling the truth because he doesn't plan on sticking around for long :-(

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA,

Thanks so much for your prompt and compassionate reply. I will try to be more careful without being too suspicious :-) from now on especially with people I meet online. But I will definitely take a break from dating of any kind for a while - this experience has really left a bad taste in my mouth, so to speak :-(

Hope you have a nice weekend - from a grateful Discouraged-but-at-peace One


Anonymous said...

Hi, I need advice, I met this guy online, he is twelve years older than me, he pursued me quickly, so much in common,he then started flirting with sexual innuendos, I told him I was uncomfortable, we haven't met yet,we got too close too fast as nd we had a huge fight the day before we met, I refused to meet him, we both made assumptions of each other, we both agree we have an amazing connection especially mentally,he has not asked me out as gain, he had since hanged back, what ad should I do?

Anonymous said...

@Mirror,

Thank you for your clarity and insight into what my gut was telling me! All I could feel was confusion - and I didn't know what it was until you pointed out he was overcompensating by trying too hard to convince me that he was a good, genuine guy.

Perhaps he's showing his true colors already.

After he wrote a long paragraph about how much we have in common (mostly travel and fitness), I mentioned 2 beaches I wanted to visit since it's been so cold and rainy lately.

All he wrote back was, "We should grab a bite sometime."

I replied with, "Yeah we could." But I really don't like how he seems impatient, and didn't even bother to respond to what I wrote, not even with a short comment.

If he had written, "I'd love to go there too. We should grab a bite sometime and talk about it" - I would have likely been more open to meeting.

At the same time, I understand how many guys get frustrated by long drawn out messages back and forth just to realize there is zero in person chemistry.

How long is it reasonable to make a guy wait until you're ready to meet up - before even the good guys lose patience?

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
Well, you don't skip things, even when online dating. Because the next part of the natural process could be the thing that identifies him further and/or makes you want to meet him or not - and that's the phone call.

Don't jump from the computer to the dinner table. Next comes the phone call. And his reaction to that and willingness to that will tell you more about his character and speaking to him before meeting him will definitely help you gauge whether or not you'd actually like to meet him in person.

Players always use speed to their advantage as it creates the "whirlwind" effect that many women get caught up in and actually confuse with great "chemistry." When the reality is, the intensity they're experiencing at that moment is the man's intent to have sex, it's not the intensity of the relationship. So it's necessary to slow things down to a natural pace when dating, always, so as to not let this take effect.

At this point, you can give him your number and invite him to telephone you. If he balks at that, that's a red flag. See if he picks up the phone and has an hour long conversation with you, in an attempt to get to know you. See if you like the sound of his voice. See if he makes you laugh. See if your curiosity is piqued. Or, see if he's an ass who makes you a bit fearful and sounds a bit "off."

A phone call can tell you LOTS about another individual, even one, when dating. As a result, I don't advise skipping that step. Extend your phone number to him along with an invite to call you - and see what he does :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA, I met one guy online 2 years ago. I was living in another country that time and he was in the same city. We never met in person. He sent an interest that I accepted. He asked for my pic password that I sent. His pic was on the site so I could see him. He never pursued with any follow up. I changed my picture password. After 3 months he sent a request for the password again. I had shared and no other communication again. I changed the password. After few months he asked for the pic again and I didn't respond. After a year I moved to another country. My profile was still on the same site. He pinged me one day and to my surprise he also moved to the same country, same city. He messaged online saying that whether he can call me and gave his no. I was curious and gave my no. He called immediately and chatted for some time. He said that his father was ill the entire last year and he was busy in attending to him. He lost his father later. Now he is trying to settle in this new country and trying to find a job etc. He requested for my pic again so I shared the password on the site. After that again I didn't hear from him. I lost interest completely.I deleted my profile as well. Lately we have been running into each other . Looks like we work in the same area. I see him with his colleagues while I was with my co workers during lunch time or at a coffee shop. I could see that he recognized me. I didn't react. Few months have passed and I forgot about him. Three days before I received a text and voicemail from him. I was on the flight so it went to voicemail directly. His text says "hey ,my name, we had spoken a couple of times on the website but due to our busy schedules never ended up meeting up-though we have seen each other around but we were both with colleagues :). Give me a shout when you are free and hopefully we can catch up. His name." I was surprised. We never made plans to meet up in the first place but his text puts equal responsibility on us for not meeting up (busy schedules for both of us!) I didn't respond. He did not apologize for not contacting earlier. What gives...after so many months..did he run out of options on the website and contacting me? I am still away traveling and will get back to my city this weekend. Probably will run into him again some time. How should I respond? I am not interested in meeting him. So should I text him saying that I am not keen on meeting up or just ignore and not reply to him? Thanks

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous September 25, 10:30PM,
"So should I text him saying that I am not keen on meeting up or just ignore and not reply to him?"

I wouldn't even bother to respond. If you do, I imagine he'll try to talk you into agreeing to meet him, only for him not to show up or something. Just ignore him, he's already wasted lots of your time.

Anonymous said...

Thanks MOA for the response. If we run into each other again and this time if he tries to smile or do small talk, what is the best way to tell him to back off. Thanks

Anonymous said...

@Mirror,

Thank you for your advice on asking them to call before a meeting.

I didn't get to try that on the Gemini guy because he took down his profile shortly after, but I did have an opportunity to try the phone suggestion on Taurus 2.

I exchanged messages with him last year, but I stopped responding after a while. This time around - I was surprised that after 2-3 weeks of messages, he *finally* asked if I'd like to meet up for food/drinks.

So I told him I preferred to have a phone call before meeting, and that since I'd be going to LA soon, perhaps he could call me when I'm back.

And he replied saying, fair enough and that he couldn't meet up for the next little while anyways (wtf??) but wanted to see if I'd be open to it.

I feel like all of this is on his terms. He did not agree to the phone call, nor asked for my #. Is this a bad sign, or did I jump the gun in asking?

Also, after I took down all my pics in my profile, Taurus 2 sent another message (he asked me why, and whether it was because too many people were messaging me). It's almost like if you don't trigger their fear of losing the person, they don't do anything and assume the woman will be around forever.

Mirror, is this typical Taurus behavior, or a sign his interest level isn't too high? He's quick to reply, and I've never initiated with him.

This is also happening with 2 other Taurus men I'm corresponding with. Lots of conversation, quick replies, no initiation on my part, but no movement whatsoever. I'm very puzzled.

- Vivian

NCS2013 said...

Hi MOA

Can you advise...

I am new to online dating, have been divorced and single for 10years busy raising my children and working and just didnt want to. I would like to meet someone but only if it suits me i will not be pressured and accomodate others needs first, learnt that one.

Anyway i initially sent a free hi message to a professional man, who's profle appealed to me on many levels, educated, gentleman, old fashioned manners etc. he responded in 24 hrs and said he liked my profile and would like to hear from me. On this site you can send an email and it opens contact between you and the other person for a month.

I emailed a short message, introduced my name and asked him if was doing anything for fathers day ( he's divorced with grown up sons) he responded within 24 hrs thanking me for the contact and question , but that his mother had just been diagnosed with cancer and that understandably the family was devestated, he explained he was in the city where his parents are, mentioned siblings and sons so was very polite and open and that he would like to get to know me when the dust settled etc. i responded witha short sympathetic message, understood completely etc. i left it for just under two weeks but had a feeling i should contact him and so sent a short email witha how are ...things, hope your mum has improved, he read my email immediately and then answered about 12 hours later that he had recieved a phonecall from his sister and that his mother had passed, very sad indeed, he thanked me for the message, uses my name etc all the right polite things.
I read the email the next morining and waited 24 hours to respond as. I wanted to say the right thing and losing a parent is such a life changing event, I offered condolences and brief polite comfort and said that it would be lovely to get to know him further when he felt that time was right and that i wished himwell etc through this difficult time. My question is our free contact period finishes in 3 days...i know you cant put a date on bereavement andnor do i want to, he can take as much time as he needs I am giving him what i would want in his position and i think he has been very open and polite considering the circumstances. So i havent minded that he asnt asked me alot of questions about myself as yet. So i thought i would see if he wants to make contact with me. If he doesnt send a message in 3 days he will have to pay for another months contact. Under normal circumstances as i am sure you would agree, this is exactly what should happen as I made the first contact, but it is not mormal when a parent dies...and I know it is true becuase i did do some research and saw the death notice and funeral arrangments. So should i leave it as it is...or would it he too much to send him a brief message on the kast day of communication giving him my private email address so he can contact me when he is ready and if I am still available and want to continue i can. Or should i let it be, and when and if he is ready he could start contact agian by finding me on the site. I have recieved alot of interest online, and would have contacted someone had I felt something, so am not waiting for him exactly but he is the only male on the site that I would be interested in getting to know becuase I know what I want and what I don't. I also agree in everything you said re dating, sex, taking things slow, so I dont want to appear to forward with this man, as I have already initiated the contact.
Thankyou MOA

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
This is the reason that I try to tell women NOT to take every single man they meet seriously until they prove they are genuinely interested men:

"he replied saying, fair enough and that he couldn't meet up for the next little while anyways (wtf??)"

Because you see, he admitted to not being serious about that there:

"wanted to see if I'd be open to it."

Basically, he's admitting that he "tested" you there. He just threw that out there to see if it'd stick. To see if you'd bite and then race to meet him for a last minute "hookup" type of situation. And when you wouldn't, he realized that this would require a bit more "work." And when players realize things aren't going to be easy and that a woman is going to require a bit more from them - they generally "poof" and disappear.

Hence, the filtering technique works, LOL - and saves you from a player attempting to use you.

"I feel like all of this is on his terms. He did not agree to the phone call, nor asked for my #. Is this a bad sign, or did I jump the gun in asking?"

That's because it IS all on HIS terms. He's signaling to you that he's a player seeking a free and easy "situation." He's not a gentleman that's seeking a true "relationship" because if he was, he'd be fully prepared to do the work required to obtain that.

"It's almost like if you don't trigger their fear of losing the person, they don't do anything and assume the woman will be around forever."

That's because men in the online dating world are like kids in a candy store - so many women, so little time. So they kinda jump onto this carousel of women, going round and round (in their rotation), experiencing different women all the time. It's a really negative side effect of online dating that many men are struck with, particularly the really "needy" men like the players - who need lots of female attention to feel good about themselves. So much attention that one woman simply can't cut it. Players are actually very needy men and their needs for attention and ego strokes are incredibly high and demanding.

"This is also happening with 2 other Taurus men I'm corresponding with. Lots of conversation, quick replies, no initiation on my part, but no movement whatsoever. I'm very puzzled."

Don't be puzzled, just move on. It's the nature of the online dating beast dear. Again, so many women, so little time. It's not personal - it amounts to a ton of distraction for small minded, needy men is all, LOL ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@NCS2013,
I think in this case, you should "let it be, and when and if he is ready he could start contact again by finding me on the site." Because right now, you're already getting caught up in the "I need to DO something here to keep this thing going" effect. And when women feel the need to take the lead and nudge things along, men have a tendency to pull back, particularly if they're suffering some sort of set back at that particular time. It can be misinterpreted by them as "pushy, demanding and controlling" and it can be a turnoff. And at this time, it's too risky to attempt that with him due to his personal circumstances.

"I dont want to appear to forward with this man, as I have already initiated the contact."

Exactly. So play it safe here. He already knows everything he needs to know to move this forward when he's ready. He knows you are interested, he knows you'll say yes to a date and he knows you're being respectful of his personal situation and not pressuring him to do something he's not ready to do. So he knows all he needs to know here to move forward when he's ready.

And in these situations, it's best to let the man come to you. If they are genuinely interested, that's exactly what they'll do when they're ready :-)

Anonymous said...

Mirror,

I can spot most players, but Taurus2 didn't come across as one.... he seems average to me, both in looks and his job. He never complimented me nor flirted with me. Just lots of friendly back and forth. I thought he'd be a safe option!

If he wasn't so persistent in contacting me (sometimes he'd follow-up with another message if it took me over 2 days to respond), I wouldn't have continued to talk to him.

Perhaps it was telling that under the "first date" part in his profile, Taurus2 wrote, "Coffee or somewhere public incase you're crazy. :P"

And then it kind of clicked in my head that his behavior could have caused some women in the past to act crazy.

After he asked me why I took down my pics and whether it was because I didn't want to get so many messages... I replied, "LOL yeah, and I don't want people creeping my pics while I'm on vacay."

And he wrote, "Makes sense. :P What's your inbox size? Guys don't know lol."

WTF!!! Instead of asking for my # just incase I never return to the site (I likely won't go back for a while), or even my e-mail, he's asking me questions about my inbox limit.

You're right mirror... I should move on. It's just infuriating.

- Vivian

NCS2013 said...

Dear MOA

Thankyou so much I completely agree and that is what I am doing.

So sorry about the spelling errors (Im a virgo) it was very difficult editing on an ipad!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
"Instead of asking for my # just incase I never return to the site (I likely won't go back for a while), or even my e-mail, he's asking me questions about my inbox limit."

And do you know WHY he's doing that?

He's trying to find out how desperate you are. He's trying to figure out how much male attention you receive as that will tell him how desperate you are. Very little male attention means desperate (easier to manipulate). Lots of male attention means not desperate (not easily manipulated).

It's a woman's level of desperation for male attention that makes her do things she normally wouldn't do (settle, become a booty call, give herself away for free, etc.) And he's trying to figure out what he may or may not be able to do/get away with here. Chances are, if he thinks you're desperate, he'll ask for your number. If he thinks you're not, he won't.

You can test that if you like. If you have no intention of seeing him or meeting him or dating him, signal to him that you get little to no male attention - and then see if he asks for your number then.

If he does - then it is YOU that truly has HIS number ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi!! Hoping you can help me out, I think I'm off to a good start but need some encouragement! :))
Just FYI: I am brand new to this mans town--just moved a month ago and started my new job.
I met a man online on Sept 19th.
--HE found my profile, viewed it, and sent an email to me. So, he pursued.
--He asked for MY number, not the other way around of him handing his out.
--He texted me. During that first day of texting he asked me to dinner. I was leaving the next day for a week out of town so we set it at I'd let him know when I was back in town and we'd go out.
--We have texted a total of 10 days since then, with me initiating 5 and he initiating 5.
--I arrived back in town but was so busy that I never asked for my dinner date.
--Several days later he texted me on a Sunday. I was sick at home with strep throat.
--He finally decided to just ask me out on a date again, probably thinking I wasn't going to bring it back up.
--We have the date. It was AMAZING... his body language said he was into me as well. The date was to be only dinner but he ended up taking me to a club afterwards as well to keep the date going. Before the date is over he tells me he'd like to give me a tour of the city in 2 days-he said it would be a fun, surprise date. I happily agree.
--The night before the date, my mom shows up unannounced to surpise me. She is visiting until this Tuesday. I had to cancel the date on him and I felt bad about it but he said he understood and we would do it another day.
--On our date I mentioned I am very independent and don't like clingy men who text/call all the time and need to see me 5 days a week. I am somewhat scared now that his contact will be limited due to this.

Anyway, after I cancelled my date on him, I fear a few things.

#1. I cancelled and next day checked out his match.com profile. He had completely revamped the entire "about me" (after our first date). Granted, 75% of what he said he is looking for fits me to a "t", but I guess I am hurt he put that much effort into his profile after our first date.
#2. I have been so "unavailable" (due to travelling out of town, my sickness, and now my mom's visit) that I am scared he will run off to a more accessible woman.

Any thoughts??

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous October 7, 12:04PM,
"During that first day of texting he asked me to dinner."

NEVER accept a date invitation online until AFTER you've already talked to the man on the phone. Speaking to a man on the phone will help you decide if he's even worth meeting and it also sets the tone of how you expect to be treated by a man from day one.

If you skip that initial phone conversation and you permit the relationship to start off via text, then get used to it because chances are, from that day forward, that's how he will ALWAYS choose to communicate with you. If you accepted that once, he'll see no reason to pick up the phone for any future dates.

"We have texted a total of 10 days since then, with me initiating 5 and he initiating 5."

Not good dear, for several reasons:

1) As a woman, you should never initiate communication with a man in the very early stages. The only way a woman can know that a man is genuinely interested is to see if HE pursues HER. If things begin to get more serious, at THAT time, you can step forward a bit.

2) Way too much "virtual" communication here. Why is this man not telephoning you? In almost two weeks of communicating, he has not "manned up" and picked up the phone in an effort to get to know you better, which starts to raise some red flags.

"I never asked for my dinner date."

YOU shouldn't be asking a MAN for a date ever. HE should have been moving this from text to the phone and THEN mentioning the date again.

"I am somewhat scared now that his contact will be limited due to this."

Well, regretfully, I imagine his contact will now all only be via text and may never move to the phone as he has not initiated that and you have already somewhat "downgraded" it before a call even took place :-(

"I am hurt he put that much effort into his profile after our first date."

Get used to it dear, it's the nature of the beast when online dating. As much as I hate to say this, you CANNOT take every single man, or any of them for that matter, seriously at first when dating online. Many disappear, many never ask for a date, many never call, many feign a huge amount of interest and then find they are easily distracted by the large numbers of other women there, many pretend to want a relationship when what they really want are "friends with benefits," many are emotionally immature. . .the list goes on and on.

But it's not unusual at all for men to keep looking for something "better" even AFTER they've met a nice girl online. Because they get trapped in "so many women, so little time" type of thinking and they simply cannot quit looking for something "better" - even when they may have already met the "best."

"I am scared he will run off to a more accessible woman."

I wouldn't fear this at all dear. What is so scary about a man that you've only met once running off? I mean, he's literally a virtual stranger at this point, so what does it matter if he disappears, ya' know? If he does, you should be thankful that he didn't stick around longer and then disappear later. Because you don't want a "half interested" man hanging around getting you all emotionally attached to him, only for him to disappear anyway. So if men are only "half interested," it's best they disappear sooner rather than later.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Besides, there are lots of fish in the sea. And when online dating, NO ONE, and I repeat NO ONE, should assume that folks there are dating one person at a time. That's generally not what people are there for, particularly MEN. People are there to explore their options, meet as many people as they can, spend time getting to know one another, and then eventually hopefully finding themselves getting closer to one of them and moving towards a relationship. So when dating online, it's a given that the individual is dating others and will most likely, continue to do so - and it's what YOU should be doing as well. Don't put all your eggs into one basket when dating online because 98% of the dates you go on and/or men you speak to, will either disappear, not follow through, end up not being a match, become ignorant and/or lazy or end up being men you're not interested in anyway.

You're looking for that very special 2% that exists as a potential match. You're not there to settle for less than you deserve simply because you're lonely - you're there to meet someone VERY special, and that requires time, lots of filtering, lots of sifting and getting to know many different people so that you can choose that very special ONE from all of your choices :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

I do not have any intention of meeting nor dating Taurus 2. I felt comfortable and good about him up until he tested me.

After I ignored his message asking about my inbox limit, a week later, he sent another message:

"Hey. :) You're probably gone already so I'm not sure when you'll read this but I enjoyed talking to you. Do you have [he lists 2 chat apps] or something else we can chat on? It's easy for msgs on here to get buried lol."

He knows I would like a phone call, yet he asks to chat on some chat app...LOL. This is something I expect from guys younger than 25, not someone who's 31.

Mirror, I've been doing some thinking...do you think that these guys (particularly the ones who found me on the site again a year later) feel no urgency in moving things along because they realize - even if I *do* get snatched up by someone in the meantime... that I'd be available and back up on the dating site later when things don't work out?

If that is the case - then do I need to block these men if they didn't ask me out the first time around, so they can experience the consequence of not asking me out?

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
You can block them if you like or simply be non-responsive. These "chatter" type kinda guys that rely on all these apps, text, etc. to communicate. . .in my experience, they're part of the "hookup" crew. Clearly they're comfortable with the lack of intimate or "real" connection it provides and most times, they've got a slew of women "on the line" that they rotate and "hit up" from time to time and then disappear on. They get caught up in a vicious cycle of sorts with that type of behavior as it's very easy for them to get away with because many women permit themselves to be "e-maintained" as someone mentioned here once - conducting a so-called "relationship" via these apps and crap, LOL.

I'm not saying that's how he is, but I am saying - he's probably a waste of your time dear :-(

If he hasn't suggested a phone call, knowing that's what you'd like, that tells me he's probably not going to. He's probably going to stick to his preferred method of communication here and if he can, he'll probably get you to attempt to settle for that.

Anonymous said...

The information and comments on this site have been incredibly helpful. I am new to the online dating scene and it's a different animal. I was very resistant to this medium of dating and I'm still not completely on board - just recently got burned by a serial dater I'd met online although I saw and payed attention to red flags early on before getting too involved. I just wish I had seen this website prior to attempting to go online; hindsight is always 20/20. Anyhow my self esteem IS intact and I'm moving on. I have always felt that when people are meant to find each other they will although in today's fast paced society - things are changing and this is the way a lot of the dating world is moving. Thanks again for all the tips and wise insights.

Anonymous said...

Hi, I've absolutely loved reading the advice and comments and now feel totally free in my understanding of a previous date. Although I think about him still, my emotions appear to be more rational and clear.
I spoke with a guy online, he initiated the conversation and at first was cautious as I'm new to online dating and therefore trying to protect myself. Anyway, looking at his pictures, I didn't feel he was exactly what I would go for, but I decided to be humble and know his personality and discover more about interests. Anyway, it turns out we had so much in common and without my initiation, he mentioned what he was looking for in a girl and I found it really genuine as it was different to all the nonsense I've heard both on and off line. He gave me his number and later after thinking about it sent a txt saying 'hi'. During this period we txted back and fro but each day the txts were iniatied by him as I didn't want to come across as needy. He spoke about meeting up perhaps a wk or two after our initial contact which I later agreed, somehow in our conversations, he seemed to want to meet sooner and as I have a very spontaneous personality I didn't want a date that would be to intense and require endless conversations over a meal so arranged something giving him the option. Anyway, it turned out that moving our meeting date a week earlier is what he wanted, or steered the conversation too. He called me over the phone, and later we met up. I was extremely nervous as the date (not mine which was meant to happen several days later) took place, we had a great chat and was impressed that he remembered insignificant comments I had made, his body language was everything a girl looks for and he was open to discuss about his family, some personal and also his hopes. Anyway the event ended, and he was very keen to meet up again and was touchy feeling (not in a crude manner) and then kissed me. That night and for several hours he txt me saying he joined meeting me and loved the fact we had so much in common he actually txt syaing the things he looks for in a girl I had it and was looking forward to the opportunity to know me more. I replied saying appreciated his passions (work) and was glad to meet somehwere with shared interests.
The next day, hadn't heard from him, I was busy with work, so sent a message with a random comment about the weather and how he was doing. He didn't reply for a while and eventually did. As I had arranged a get together (prior to him changing to meet earlier). I wasn't sure whether to go ahead with it so I sent a message if he was still wanting to meet up. I received a reply saying something had come up at work requiring extra time for work but could it be arranged for the following week... my reply was short something like 'no problem' ...he hasn't responded since then... I spent the days really annoyed at myself because I thought I got to know someone who was genuine... he pursued me rather than I chasing him... but then something just drastically changed within half a day... could do with advice and encouragement.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous October 24, 8:59AM,
Well dear, I'm going to say some things you probably don't want to hear, but I'm doing so to help you, not to bring you down. So bare with me here :-)

"he pursued me rather than I chasing him... but then something just drastically changed within half a day"

What changed dear - was you. Let me explain.

"The next day, hadn't heard from him, I was busy with work, so sent a message with a random comment about the weather and how he was doing. He didn't reply for a while and eventually did."

"I wasn't sure whether to go ahead with it so I sent a message if he was still wanting to meet up."

You became the pursuer dear, immediately after the first date. Instead of hanging back and playing it cool and moving forward with your own life, you signaled to him that you had actually stopped (moving forward and living your own life) - and you were now waiting on him before proceeding.

When a woman does that, when she flips the script and steps into the lead role as the initiator, it signals to men that the woman may very well make her life revolve around him. And this is scary to men because they're really not comfortable with the knowledge that everything they do and say, will somehow have a direct effect on the woman. Instead of freedom (fun), it instantly feels like captivity to them (not fun).

Additionally, I always warn against this:

"He gave me his number and later after thinking about it sent a txt saying 'hi'."

Again, it was you who had initiated this whole thing, instead of him, the man. A man shouldn't throw his number at a woman and invite her to hunt him down. A man should ASK the WOMAN for HER number, and then be the man, take the lead role - and initiate and get things off the ground.

Everytime that is reversed, it never ends well. There is a direct correlation to a vast difference in a relationships outcome when the woman is the first to initiate contact, versus the man. And while there are many contributing factors to this occurrence, I think the biggest one is that - when the woman first initiates, she has no real way of knowing if the man is genuinely interested in HER. He could just be interested in sex.

So yea, once a woman initiates and gives a man a "green light" so-to-speak, a man that is solely interested in sex WILL take the lead - for as long as is required to try to get laid. If that doesn't happen, then poof, many of them disappear. If they're considering disappearing and the women then suddenly flips the script on them and starts to pursue him (initiating communication, asking for dates, etc.) - all it does is speed up his disappearance.

When you date dear, you're only job very early on - is to OBSERVE. That's it, nothing more. No calling, no texting, no initiating, no asking to spend time, no nudging things along, no reminding him you exist - nothing but observing HIM and HIS actions is required. Because your observation of his consistent actions over an extended period of time can help you to determine his intentions. When you cut that short by stepping forward to take the lead, you have no time to observe and no way to determine his actions.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Men EXPECT women to chase them after a few dates and/or sex. Why? Because erroneously, that's what many women do. Why? Because they fear losing the man. They are letting their insecurities take control and steer the wheel, which drives the relationship into a ditch most times, unfortunately. And men instinctually sense this and when they do, they pull back. When a woman does this flip flop or role reversal after a date or sex, to men, this is something they see all the time these days and they know that doesn't work. And because it's something they see and experience regularly nowadays, they're not intriqued by it. It the same thing every girl they've dates has done. And what they're looking for is something DIFFERENT. And to be different nowadays, to differentiate yourself as a woman that is NOT like many other women out there, you have to behave differently from other women. You have to be exciting to them and a challenge. You have to pull back, and let them give chase and be the man and take the lead.

The ones who enjoy a woman initiating and pursuing them, are the players who like things easy for them. But good men, they generally don't enjoy the role reversal because it puts the woman in the masculine position (leader, initiator), and it puts them in the feminine position (submissive to the woman's lead). A good men like to be just that - men. They don't like the energy of a dominant female because their energy is dominant. They actually need someone submissive to their lead. And I'm not saying that you role over and play dead, I'm simply saying that you take the feminine role and be a lady and LET a man take the lead and be a man. Let a man pursue you and let him treat you nice. There's nothing weak in that and there's nothing wrong with that. It's as nature would have it.

Don't worry dear. Remain silent and do not initiate any further communications and, chances are, he'll return in the next month or so to "check in" with you (IF he doesn't hear from you and you allow your silence and lack of contact to make him curious enough to check in). And if he doesn't, then you accept that it wasn't meant to be.

In the meantime, you continue to move forward with your life. You continue dating other men and you continue having fun and exploring your options. And while you're out there having fun and living your life, chances are, he'll eventually resurface :-)

We've all been there dear. And as you can see from the comments on this site, you're not alone. So don't beat yourself up for this. Instead, chalk it up to a lesson learned, brush yourself off and get out there and live your life again :-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for that response above (Oct 25). It all makes sense and is very clear. I feel super confident now about progressing forward, I've been practising this with another guy who I've been speaking to for the last couple of weeks. I thought I would not answer his calls and not text for several days to gauge his reaction and feelings towards me. It turns out I had received a few phone calls . I sent a text just to saying 'hi, are you ok'? and then received a call from him straight after. Apparently, he was worried as he hadn't heard from me and wondered if I was ok... he was very keen to know what I had been upto and I suppose who I was socialising with... I've also recently, declined dates from guys who have sent a few messages and asked to meet up. Before reading this post I agreed, but after reading it, I sent responses declining the offer suggesting if you want to meet me get to know me first...some of them hadn't even spoken to me over the phone! or asked for my name (even though i use my nickname it isn't the same) Another sent a text saying he was in town, am I free to catch up for a drink, I didn't reply, so he sent an email asking whether I received his text about meeting up. I replied 24hrs later saying, I had made plans for that evening... I feel so empowered and encouraged now as I can politely decline requests knowing my worth and time is valuable without making myself vulnerable, this way, I feel I can begin the process of handling my emotions rationally, accept the fact I need a man who will respect me and be able to test them without having to go through a massive emotional roller coaster. Also, I don't intend to mess these guys around and I know some people may think I'm leading them on but, unfortunately MOR your wise words have certainly opened my eyes to the world of online dating and putting into practise the points you have raised is certainly helping to weed out the bad guys from the good.

Anonymous said...

I met a guy online, we started emailing back and forth for about 2 mos, then he asked to meet me. During the two months he never once asked my name or anything personal about myself. Similarly, he did not offer any personal information. We would exchange really nice quotes back and forth and joke around in a very affectionate manner. It was really nice and no sex was discussed. I would ask him a couple of things that were not too probing and he would answer vaguely. I would ask myself: what does this mean? His email address is very obscure as well. So I never even knew his name before the meeting was set up. I was very intrigued about who this man was!

During the 2 months however, many times he would suddenly out of the blue email me to meet him a specific coffee house, generally within 1.5 hrs to 2 hrs. Only once did I reply and say I was going out of town but another time for sure. The other times I simply did not respond. I did not appreciate the short notice but did not say this to him.

I suggested we meet by doing something quite unique, instead of going the boring coffee route. I described a library in town and that I would be sitting on a specific floor which would involve him looking up where that book would be in the library, then coming up the stairs. He was all for it. We would then have coffee after in the cafe.

When the night came, I really wanted to cancel but instead decided to face my fears. I waited in the library but he was a no-show. Two hrs later he sends an email stating he just got back from being out of town. He said he had time to meet on the weekend. He did not say why he could not give me advance notice or even offer an apology. I then sent him an email 4 days later simply stating I would have appreciated prior notice. It has been 3 weeks and no reply.

What do you think happened here? I have been holding back (as these posts have been suggesting) but no contact from him at all? Did I blow it? Was it not all that interested? We emailed regularly for 2 months! I am confused.

Need your opinion. Thanks!








The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous October 29, 11:32PM,
"During the two months he never once asked my name or anything personal about myself. Similarly, he did not offer any personal information."

Big red flags dear - talking for two months and never once inquiring your name? Something's wrong there. And offering nothing personal about himself? Again, something very suspect there.

"I was very intrigued about who this man was!"

Hmm, you should have been very leary dear, this sounds borderline dangerous.

"I waited in the library but he was a no-show."

Again, big red flag. Red flags all over the place here :-(

"What do you think happened here?"

It almost sounds to me as if this person was a fraud, a fake. Someone with a fake online profile.

"Did I blow it?"

I wouldn't worry about whether or not you blew it, I think this individual was a fraud. When a man doesn't ask you your name, doesn't tell you his and is very vague and gives very little information about themselves, that's a big red flag that something is very wrong. And it most likely indicates that this individual was a fraud and that this was a fake online profile. And it may have even been someone you possibly already know.

If he didn't ask your name, that's because he may have already possibly known it. And he didn't give you his name or any information about himself or come to meet you - because they couldn't tell you who they were and they didn't want you to know who they were - because they weren't real :-(

Anonymous said...

Thank you Mirror for above response. Really good advice here. Wanted to clarify he did not have an online profile. I put an ad on CL and he responded. My ad was very clean and down to earth, girl next door earnestly looking for spiritual, physical and emotional connection, not a sex ad. Had tons of responses from men who told me who they really were but none were the "one".

Wondering ... how could he have known my name or who I was?. I am sure he did not know me. Maybe I am naive in asking. CL emails back and forth are confidential and my personal email address was never revealed to him, went through CL server. However, on odd occasion his real g-mail address popped up. On purpose perhaps?

I just think it's so cruel to do this to a sweet, kind person like myself. Never once was it about sex, I was trying to get to know the man himself. Why do men play these games? His he perhaps a loner, with no friends, hates women? I am psychology major so am interested in the workings of the mind and behaviours.

Lisa.




The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lisa,
"However, on odd occasion his real g-mail address popped up."

The same could've happened with yours. Technology isn't always a sure thing when it comes to security. There are breaches that take place regularly, even in very large data bases at huge corporations. If it can happen there, it can happen anywhere.

Additionally, as I'm sure you're already aware, Craigslist really isn't the place to meet someone. Even if you're a nice person, what you need to understand is that "not nice" people flock to CL to perform scams, fraud and heinous things (like using people's pets given "free to a good home" for target practice). So what happens there is, your chances of bumping into an individual that's there for those purposes, skyrockets. And if you seem like a nice girl, you'll attract those types like a moth to a flame. They're there seeking easy victims, and when one comes into range, they're going to take advantage of the opportunity to see what they can get from it. The numbers of "not good" individuals drawn to that site are much higher than on say, dating sites, where individuals have to pay for membership. While those people exist on both, when it comes to any free site, you're always going to encounter triple the number of them. Because people who are out to scam others - generally do not pay for the privilege of doing so. Therefore, just by being there, you're exposing yourself to very high numbers of "not so good" individuals and honestly, putting yourself at great risk dear.

"Never once was it about sex, I was trying to get to know the man himself."

And you also need to realize that because of the fact that that site draws lots of unscrupulous individuals to it, particularly for sex, whether you're there for sex or not doesn't matter. THEY are there for sex. If they see some soft spoken doe-eyed beauty come up on their radar, they're going to go into pounce mode, because they're of a "predator" mindset.

That's what THEY are there for - to prey on unsuspecting people for various reasons.

And by placing yourself there, you can be guaranteed that you're going to encounter many of these individuals, whether you want to or not. Because the number of them that are there for scandalous purposes is so very high. It's unavoidable.

I'd suggest you remove yourself from that site and pay to place a profile on a legitimate dating site. And not a free one, because again, people looking to run scams on others generally do not pay for the privilege of doing so - so make sure it's a paid subscription site. While this will not protect you entirely, it will decrease the numbers of scandalous individuals you'll be forced to deal with.

On Craigslist for dating, I'd suspect that as high as 9 out of 10, or even 10 out of 10, individuals there are there for nefarious purposes, seeking anonymous sexual hookups, not real relationships. On a dating site, it may be about 5 out of 10 or 6 out of 10. So right off the bat, you've already increased your odds of dealing with individuals that are serious about meeting someone for purposes other than anonymous sexual hookups.

You still need to stay sharp and be on your toes. But it's a situation where you help yourself by increasing your odds of meeting like-minded individuals.

Anonymous said...

Well, I am an older (in my early seventies) widower and agree with a lot of what you say but I don't agree that the lady should play hard to get and not all guys just can't wait to get in her pants. I don't want one who is very needy and seems anxious to date but I want one who seems honest and sincere and doesn't play games. When I was young and dated lots of girls I didn't waste any effort or time on one who played hard to get and I lost interest in her faster than I could drive my 57 Ford! Right now I am e-mailing a few women and hope they are doing the same with other guys since there is no commitment to any of them. I don't respond to them right away and don't expect them to respond to me quickly either. I don't give out my phone # to any of them because I don't want them calling me before I meet them in person-someplace safe in public, for their sake and mine. I'm not a great conversationalist on the phone and like to see the person I am talking with. By the way, I met my wife in a cafe by passing her a note asking for her name and phone # when her boyfriend left the table for a minute. She told me to meet her 2 hours later. We got married 2 months later and were married for 47 years before she died of cancer. I wrote a book called "The Nightstand Notes" about our life. If she had played hard to get, we never would have married. She, obviously, wasn't desperate since she was on a date with a good looking guy already. Good luck to all U women.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous November 11, 3:31AM,
Thank you for contributing, it's quite interesting and nice to see the different generations representing themselves here :-)

I understand what you're saying, but the things is, these are different times now. Yes, years ago, a woman could feel safe exposing herself and her inner workings and making herself available to a man readily. Why? Well, because there were more mature gentlemen back then than there are now. These days, men born after say, the late 1960's are. . .well, different my friend, LOL. Not all, there are still gentlemen out there, but the reality is that there are now more emotionally immature men that act as predators when dating as opposed to true gentlemen. And as you can see from the thousands of comments and stories shared from women on this site. . .these guys are plowing through them and then discarding them like trash. It's not very gentlemanly, it's not respectful and it makes it very necessary for a woman to genuinely guard herself from these types. Hence the "filters" being necessary to put into place - to weed out the users, players and those with only sexual needs from the one's that are genuinely there ready to connect and seeking a true relationship, instead of fast sexual hookup, for themselves.

I wish things were the way they used to be and I'm sure hundreds of women here would agree with me. But the reality is that it's now different, very different, and many men don't even know the word "respect" when it comes to women. Instead, they are a wolf in sheep's clothing online (pretending to want a relationship when they only want a sexual experience with the woman), and they are doing some serious emotional damage to women as a result. Nowadays, it's more of a "hookup" type mentality that rules the dating scene, rather than a mentality that's encouraging to a mature relationship that's meant to last. And women need to protect themselves from that. It's very necessary that they protect themselves from being used sexually and then discarded like trash, like an object that's disposable. Because the reality is that there are tons of men out there now treating women as "objects" as a means to an end (sex), rather than treating them as a real human being with feelings.

Imagine meeting someone who you think is great, freely going into the situation, exposing yourself to them and your inner workings, sleeping with them and becoming intimate with them. . .and then watching them disappear, without a word, never to be seen and heard from again. And imagine that happening to you, over and over and over and over again.

After one or two of those types of negative and extremely emotionally damaging experiences. . .you come to the realization that you need "filters." You need to protect yourself from this, because each man that does this to you, that uses you solely for selfish purposes without any thought to your feelings and emotional stability, is leaving with a tiny piece of you - effectively chipping away at you, your self-esteem, your confidence. It's very damaging and regretfully, it's a very real phenomenom taking place in modern day dating. And whether we like it or not, it's our responsibility as women, to protect ourselves from being used as "tools" and treated like "objects" - and to only give ourselves to those with genuinely good intentions. And to find those with genuinely good intentions, it becomes necessary to "filter" men.

Thank you for contributing a different voice and showing women that yes, good men do still exist. And much luck to you in the modern day dating world!

Anonymous said...

"2) Way too much "virtual" communication here. Why is this man not telephoning you? In almost two weeks of communicating, he has not "manned up" and picked up the phone in an effort to get to know you better, which starts to raise some red flags." I needed this!

I met a man (B) over online dating earlier this year. He contacted me, emailed, texted, then spoke on the phone just once. Weeks went by with sporadic communication. I never initiated emails/texts; I let him. Granted, he was doing a lot of international travel at the time (I believe this to be true because I know about his business), but he wasn't following up in a timely manner nor asking me out. So after he had not communicated for a couple of weeks, I stopped responding to his texts, deleted his phone number, which was timely since I had begun dating someone else. That relationships ends and I sign back onto the site where I had met B, months later, and now he's back in touch by text. He was friendly and flirty, but hasn't pursued meeting in person, AND hasn't called me :-( It's been 5 WEEKS since he's been sporadically texting me and I need to move on! His business has been in the busiest time of the year in the past several weeks (this is in fact true, I know exactly what he does and it's highly seasonal).

I know I need to move on, so I am actively seeking out other connections online. Unfortunately B is very good looking, shares lots of common interests, not to mention he is a Pisces which suits my Cancer self to a tee...Pisces men ALWAYS get me crushing like no tomorrow.... but clearly something is not quite right with this man. I try to stop thinking about B but then he will text after a few days. I am wondering if I should just not respond, again, or if I should just reply by saying it's been nice texting and catching up, but that I am looking to meet someone, not for a pen pal.

UGH, I need to get him out of my head. Guys like him make an otherwise stable, successful woman feel like a stage 5 clinger...

Anonymous said...

I met a guy online about 3 mos ago. We have been emailing back and forth. He stops, I stop but we eventually connect again. Two attempts were made for dates but something came up for the both of us. When he did not show up for the date, should he not have suggested another date/time for reschedule? All he said was "I had to go out of town and just got back. I have time this weekend to meet". No apology either. Maybe guys don't think of those things?

The says he just wants to be friends. All we talk about are intellectual subjects (which are very interesting by the way) and I make a couple of personal inquiries and so does he. Do you think this man really just wants to be friends? He never brings up sexual matters and we just keep talking away.

Do you think there is a possibility this guy is just sniffing me out or taking it really slow in this case, a wit wary maybe? It is hard for believe a man just wants to be friends, in this day and age but who knows.

After 10 days of no contact he suddenly sends an email from Asia where is touring several countries. Isn't it odd he would reply to my email while on an extended holiday? Who would do this? We are not exactly close.

Appreciate your advice Mirror ..... Tammy





Anonymous said...

Hi, I just wanted to ask what you think of a guy age 37 sort of hitting on a 25 year old women on Instagram... This guy who has been following me on instagram for a while commented on a pic of me and my bike (I do downhill mountainbiking) and asked where I ride, I responded, and he asked if we could go riding together the next day, I said that I'm busy but maybe the following Saturday. He then asked me to mail him so we could exchange numbers, which I did. He seems like quite a nice guy, we seem to have the same interests and all. Would you have any advice for me on this matter, I haven't dated for a while so I wouldnt want to let an opportunity slip simply because of an age difference.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tammy,
"It is hard for believe a man just wants to be friends, in this day and age but who knows."

That's not hard to believe at all dear. These days, men are generally not clamoring for relationships. Instead, they prefer to remain free, unattached and as friends with women it seems. And by friends, I don't mean simply just buddies. I mean "F buddies" or "friends with benefits." When a guy says he doesn't want a relationship, that's generally the truth, so I would strongly heed his words there. What he's truly saying is, "I don't want a commitment." That doesn't mean he won't eventually want sex, but it does mean that he's positive he doesn't want a committed relationship and when men say that, that's what they mean. So basically, he's telling you already that this isn't going to go anywhere. And my suggestion to you is, if YOU want a relationship, don't waste another moment of your time on this one dear.

"He stops, I stop but we eventually connect again."

That's not good dear, cease doing that. Because when you do that, it's YOU keeping this thing going. Why bother to keep something going with a man that doesn't bother to do the same and/or seem to care when it drops off? Don't wish for that for yourself dear. Being with a man like that will only bring you grief and pain. Instead, when he drops off and goes away. . . leave him be gone.

If he's not going to bother investing in this, then why should you? It takes two to make a thing go right, and if he's not doing his part, it's not going to go right and there's nothing you can do to change that or make him want to be with you or make him want a relationship with you.

The only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested is to see if HE pursues HER. If he doesn't, then that tells you he's not genuinely interested - and you let him go. You don't try to pound a square peg into a round hole. Instead, you simply accept the reality of "what is" and you let go of the fantasy of "what if" and you move on.

"No apology either. Maybe guys don't think of those things?"

That's not true. GOOD men understand common courtesy and they issue it when need be. Men who are selfish, uninterested and/or uncaring and cold do these things. Good men - are good men, in both their words and their deeds. If he's not doing the deeds of a good man - then you let him go. You don't want bad men in your life who treat you without courtesy and lack respect for you. When a man treats you like that, you walk. You don't try harder, you just walk away. And that's what I'd suggest you do here, let this one go, before he causes you some real pain. He's already showing you his character as a man and so far - it's not good. So there's no reason to explore this any further.

You deserve better than this and if I were you - I'd free myself of him so that I could meet a good man that wants what I want and that is willing to treat me with respect :-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Nov 12, 4:06 AM,
I don't think 12 years is a huge difference, particularly for men as they often date and marry women more than ten years younger than them.

But it doesn't matter what I think. What matters is what YOU think and whether or not YOU are comfortable with this. If you're not, then do not proceed.

Anonymous said...

If a guy says he just wants to be friends, believe him, or you are simply lying to yourself (and believe me, I know the feeling). I wrote at "12:46" above, as Anon. So I know how frustrating it is when you connect with someone, even just online, and let your fantasies get the best of you.

The only way you will meet a real and available guy is by living in the present reality. :-) Believe me, I know!

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