"Mirror, Mirror on the wall . . . where did he go, and why doesn't he call?"

How To Say No: Dating, Life And Consequence





Man or woman, being treated like crap stinks. Being taken for granted makes you feel unworthy. And both combined cause self doubt to begin to grow in the dark recesses of one's mind.

All of the above happens a lot in the world of dating, to men and women both. So let's explore the concept of "consequence." Because I think it's one that people fail to realize the value of these days.

When men (and/or women) misbehave and treat you badly, you need to learn to stop trying to carry the weight of a struggling relationship on your shoulders and instead get comfortable saying "no" and letting these guys (girls) live with the consequences of their decisions and bad behavior.

You Need To Take Their Crap - And "Stick It" To Them - Like Glue




And I don't say that with any ill intent, believe it or not. I say that with only good intent - because it's what they need, it's what's best for them. The only way a person grows is by experiencing pain and hardship.

Ever hear the term, "growing pains?" Yea, they hurt. They're supposed to. That's what makes the message stick. That's what makes you a better person. That's how you learn life's lessons. That's what stops you from treating another human being poorly again. That's what stops you from making the same mistakes in life.

This is also how you raise children. You equip them with the coping skills they're going to need in life by letting them experience the consequences of their actions. Because let's face it, life is suffering. Bad things are going to happen. And you need to develop the coping skills to deal with these bad things that happen in life in order to survive them.

And the only way to do that - is to walk through the fire.

When you constantly swoop in to protect your children from anything bad or the consequences of their behavior - you're actually doing them a great injustice. They're not going to develop the coping skills they're going to need in life to be successful at it - and they're going to end up on your doorstep with all their belongings in a garbage bag by the age of 30.

Why? Because bad things have happened that they didn't know how to cope with. So they handled it poorly and ran from it rather than walk through it. Much like you taught them to do by showing them early in life that when bad things happen, you run home to mom (and/or dad) and she (he) protects you and makes it all go away.

So you spend an eternity and your life's savings bailing them out, again, and again, and again, and again. And they go on, making the same mistakes, making the same bad decisions, over, and over, and over again - because they've never learned their lesson. They've never had to live with the consequences of their behavior and it becomes a repetitive, vicious cycle.

Men are much the same, ladies, and constantly overlooking their bad behavior, making excuses for them and tolerating it - ignites this vicious cycle into a blazing inferno.

And guess what? Women are the same. So for any men reading this, this applies to you as well, when you encounter a woman that isn't treating you well. You see, we're all only human. If we were perfect, we'd all be Gods - not human beings.

Step Out Of The Line Of Fire


When you step out of the line of fire, and you let someone suffer the consequences of their bad behavior and decisions in life - you're actually doing a good thing - you're helping them grow as a person and learn valuable lessons in life that will make them better people in the long run.

So if you're man (or woman) is treating you like crap, taking advantage of you, not following through with things, bailing on you or rejecting you or saying he needs space or he doesn't want a relationship - whatever it is he's saying he needs or he's doing - you "stick it" to him, like glue, the consequences of his own actions and behavior.

And you step out of the line of fire - and you make him (her) walk right through it.

When a man (or woman) says they need space, you give it to them. When they stand you up for a date, you make them live with it. When they don't call when they say they will, you make them live with that decision. And when you do that, you're actually helping them and you learn a valuable lesson.

What's The Valuable Lesson You're Learning?


You're learning to say "no" comfortably. Not only are you helping them, you're helping yourself, too. There are many, many times in life when it's necessary, to protect yourself from being hurt and used, to just say "no." "No, I'm not going to tolerate this type of treatment." "No, this is not okay with me." "No, I'm not going to overlook this." "No, I'm not going to bail you out again." "No, this is not acceptable."

Get comfortable with that. Because you're going to need it someday.

Setting boundaries for how you want to be treated in life and in dating is very necessary if you want to have a happy, healthy relationship with someone who respects you. When you let everything be a free-for-all in dating and in life, you get chaos in return. You get depression, suffering, pain, indecision, confusion, desperation and turmoiled emotions. Who wants to live like that? Who deserves to live like that? No one.

When you set boundaries you get health, well being and balance. You get happiness, success, crystal clear vision, strong decision making skills, confidence and respect - you grow dignity, you become enlightened.

I'm Going To Share A Story With You


This is an example of how this is done in a respectful manner to all involved. And I hope that you can see the magic in the message here.

This is a text exchange between a man and a woman. The man set a date for a Saturday here, and then disappeared the Tuesday prior to the date. He reappeared the following Wednesday. Eight attempts at contact were made prior to this response finally being sent:

MAN: "My moms been in the hospital, she's been sick. I'm sorry I've been out of touch. I would like to see you."

WOMAN: Silence, no response

MAN: Sends the same communication 7 more times over the course of 3 days.

WOMAN: Silence, no response

MAN: On the third day says, "Did you get any of my texts or emails?"

WOMAN: On the third day finally responds with this, "Yes, I did. However, regretfully, I'm turned off now. We had a date last Saturday. I'm sorry to hear about your mother and I wish her well. However, that's no excuse to take someone for granted and assume they'll still be there when you couldn't even take 30 seconds of your time to extend the courtesy of a quick cancellation notification. It's disappointing. I value myself and I strongly believe that the man I chose to be with should value me, too. I'm sorry this didn't pan out. I hope your mom's okay and I wish you well. Take care."

MAN: "I understand. I had to take her and I didn't have my phone. Your number was available to me at the time and I apologize. I'm sorry and disappointed in myself for blowing my chance and I deeply regret it. I wish you the best. Take care. And if you ever need someone to talk to, I'd love to at least be your friend. Again, I'm truly sorry."

As you can see from the exchange above, the man is now forced to live with the consequences of his actions and bad decision. He attempted to manipulate the woman by using his mother's illness as an excuse here - and failed miserably at it.

The simple fact of the matter is this: This man was not without his phone for the entire 4 days leading up to their Saturday date.

At some point in those 4 days leading up to their Saturday date, he had access to his phone and 30 seconds to call or send a text explaining what had happened and that he had to cancel. But he chose not to do that. That was his decision. And now, he'll experience the consequences of it and hopefully, he'll learn his lesson and think twice before ever doing that to another woman again. And if that doesn't happen, he'll make the same mistake over and over until he gets it right. That's how life works.

And that's how life works for you too, ladies. If you keep tolerating poor treatment, disrespect and bad behavior from a man - you, too, will keep suffering the consequences of your bad decisions. You will keep being taken for granted, you will keep receiving the same excuses from the man, you will keep being disrespected and you will experience pain, confusion, low self esteem and sorrow - all because of your actions and choices. You will only have yourself to blame.

There's an old saying, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again - and expecting different results."

You see, the woman here, she protected herself while instilling a valuable lesson in him. She is becoming comfortable with saying "no" and looking out for herself. Because had she accepted the less than honest explanation he provided, there's a very high likelihood that he would've disappeared on her again - making the same mistake in the very near future - because he hadn't learned his lesson and wasn't forced to live with the consequences of his decision.

Instead, this woman will feel very good about herself, very proud of herself, for looking out for herself as she should. Had she overlooked this bad decision of his she'd have suffered the consequences for it. She'd have most likely experienced this type of treatment from him again. She would've beat herself up, felt bad about herself and suffered from low self esteem and self doubt.

But instead, she comes out of this bad experience unscathed, proud, strong and dignified.

She remained cool, calm, collected and respectful. She didn't over react, freak out or become emotional. She was very matter of fact in her communication to him. As a result, she received a heart felt apology from him and he showed remorse for his decision. He became accountable for his actions.

When a man uses words like "deeply regret," words men don't often use - it's because he actually does feel that way. And this is a good thing. The woman here won't feel bad for him or make excuses for him because - it's how he should feel. He's human too. He should feel bad and remorseful when he treats another human being unfairly or with disregard. This woman knows that she's also doing a favor here for other women. This man will think twice before treating another woman like this in the future - and taking the risk of losing her.

And you know what? He'll be back. Why? Because once he absorbs this lesson, he'll soon realize that he's only human, and that he hurts like the rest of us. He'll feel guilty, he'll have had plenty of time to think, and he'll do what most human beings that have gone through the fire eventually do - return to set things right again.

That's when, as a human being, you do what I call a "complete 360." You turn 360 degrees in your thinking and in your behavior - you grow from the experience and you change as a result.



In the end, you're a better person for it.

The man now understands the woman's boundaries. He now knows what is and what is not acceptable treatment towards her. He now knows that she values herself enough to look out for herself when need be, and walk away if she has to.

That's strength. Raw, pure, unadulterated strength.

Admirable qualities in a human being. They're the kind of qualities that people respect you for. And when this man makes his attempt at setting things right, he'll have a whole new perspective on this woman. One that includes respect and admiration - and one that will make him treat her with such from that day forward, should she decide to give him one more chance (a month or more later).

When dating, do yourself and the people you're dating a big favor - and get comfortable saying "no."

"What matters most is how well you walk through the fire." ~ Charles Bukowski

That's what matters.

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255 Comments:

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Anonymous said...

wow powerful message. You are great and I feel so empowered already reading your posts.

Thank you

Anonymous said...

I am so thrilled that you have written this article!! I never understood why or how to go about this. This is a massively important life lesson and I'm going to live by it - thankyou mirror!
I have been wondering WHY we let ourselves be trodden on.. and I have been blaming low self esteem and desperation but now I also understand that ignorance Has been a major contributor in this
what is low self esteem about

Anonymous said...

Awesome article!

JT

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Low self esteem is a pervasive feeling of being worthless. It resides deep in the subconscious and most times, those who carry it with them are not even aware of it.

And often, but not always, it can stem from childhood. If a child was bullied, picked on or verbally abused in any way. As adults, they still feel that way about themselves.

What folks need to realize is - YOU assign value to yourself - not anyone else. You are as valuable as you think you are.

And whatever value of yourself that you project - is the value that others will perceive you at.

YOU are in control of your happiness. Your happiness does not come from a man. He can add to it, but he is not the end all, be all, of your happiness. That comes from within yourself.

Anonymous said...

Steps to better self esteem ... I would be so happy if you had a crack at that topic!
Do you think it is just something you have to build gradually upon - particularly making the right decisions about your best interests in life and relationships
Or is it a decision which cuts your old self from your new? Or is thinking how you were before as wrong just another symbol of low self esteem?
talk about a conundrum!
thanks and thanks again for your writing ! (I hope someone gives you a book deal or the universe delivers milk and chocolate to your doorstep everyday for the rest of time!)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
That's an excellent topic. Let me think on that one and see what develops ;-)

Me, personally, I believe self esteem is something you build upon. And yes, making better decisions in life aids in doing so. Because when you start to make better decisions for yourself and stand up for yourself and look out for yourself - you begin to feel empowered.

And it's that power, that build up of power, that I believe ultimately builds up a healthy self esteem. Because one major contributing factor to low self esteem is poor decision making skills which lead to self doubt. When you start to question your decisions or question yourself, you chip away at your self esteem. But better decisions help you build it up.

And better decision making skills really amount to using common sense - not emotions - to make decisions and reach conclusions. It's not hard, it's a matter of separating yourself from your emotions when making decisions is all.

Logic - not emotion, leads to better decisions. And better decisions ultimately lead to increased self esteem and a feeling of pride, achievement and accomplishment.

asae said...

Thank you for you have entered the joy and happiness to my heart
I wish you success and lasting success
And I hope that we will remain always sustained through this wonderful Blog

Anonymous said...

How long should you keep this up for? Meaning, if say 4 months go by and he's never apologized or reached out and made contact but you happen to run into him, how should you act? Do you ignore him and pretend he's not there? Don't even look his way? Only acknowledge his presence if he approaches you?

How long do you keep this up to get it across you're a woman not to be toyed with? Its hard because you don't want to look bitter or petty for holding onto a grudge for so long by ignoring him, yet by talking with him...it can make him think everything is fine and dandy and he's in the clear. Thoughts?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Well, you have to use common sense and you're gut here. Because each situation is different and so is each person. And the thing I pay attention to is - did I receive an apology? Did he learn a lesson?

If the answer is no - then I move on.

Because I don't want to be with someone who's going to repeat the same mistakes. Mistakes that end up hurting ME. It's too much of a risk and I'm too valuable to put myself through that again. So that's how I suggest folks look at it.

If you appear petty or bitter to someone, then so be it. What the heck do you care what a person that's hurt you thinks about you anyway, ya' know? They should be focusing on themselves and their own behavior - not mine.

Besides, this isn't about being petty or bitter. It's about SELECTIVELY choosing the folks you allow in your life. There's an old saying:

"Evil needs an invitation."

Ever see in the movies how a vampire has to stand at the doorway of someone's home before stepping in? Ever notice how they need the homeowner to invite them in before they enter?

That's because evil (negativity) needs an invitation to enter your life. If you permit it and invite it in, then you're permitting it and inviting it into your life.

So it's not about being bitter, petty or holding a grudge. It's about taking control and being choosy. It's about not permitting negativity and pain to enter your life. It's about looking out for yourself.

Because if you permit it into your life - then you only have yourself to blame for the consequences of that decision.

And the way I look at it is, someone who has never apologized for wronging another individual or hurting them - shouldn't be permitted into your life.

Unless, of course, you want a repeat of the entire situation.

I will give people second chances, but only if they've asked for one and shown regret and remorse.

Anonymous said...

First, I loved this article too.
Second, I love you Mirror of Aphrodite. *grin*
And third...I have a weird problem of weighing and balancing things too much. Its like, when oppurtunity presents itself I shall dole out the same amount of crap that was given to me by a guy..and sometimes in just the same way! Like, if he went back to his ex, I would date a new guy and purposefully tell him EACH AND EVERY detail about it..just for the sheer fun of it. But if he doesn't allow that, then I get restless. Restlessness leads to stupidity. Any thoughts?
Ps. Oh yeah I am a Libra. :p So you can understand that weighing and balancing thingy about me. :D
And aren't Libras supposed to peace loving and all? Is my behaviour vengeful? :/

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Libra Female,
Awe, thank you :-)

Well, I had to laugh when I read your comment. As a Libra, you're behavior is right on par, LOL. I will break it down to help you understand.

Yes, Libra is the sign of the scales, the sign of justice. Balance and fairness is key. However, Libra women will display these tendencies a bit different that Libra men. And the "fairness and balance, justice" thing can be displayed by a Libra female in what one would call - karma.

In the Libra female world, justice rules. It can - and must be - handed down. Ever hear the term, "Here comes the judge." If there's justice needing to be dealt, Libra female will dish a heaping helping of it out.

Libra women "right wrongs" to create equality and balance. They can be quite sexually aggressive by nature and any starvation of intellect or attention in her personal relationships can bring about promiscuous behavior.

Libra females are the women most likely to be on an episode of WEtv's "Secret Lives of Women." (I'm quite sure many of those vixens are Libra females feeling stiffled, suffocated and unappreciated :-)

Libra females thoroughly enjoy sprinkling karmic dust when dishing out justice ;-)

Anonymous said...

@Mirror of Aphrodite.. Thank you for replying to me. :) now.. Ahm.
"They can be quite sexually aggressive by nature and any starvation of intellect or attention in her personal relationships can bring about promiscuous behavior."
TRUE. These lines just screamed true for me. I held back when IN the relationship...again, *I shouldn't be unfair to anyone* - because of this thought..but I left when I wasn't satisfied or found myself being cheated on.. and err, followed temptations... ;)
And about enjoying sprinkling Karmic dust while dishing out justice...so I do..very very much. :D If not at that moment, but someday I give them everything back. With interest. :p
One thing I noticed. Men always come back. As if they want to be given back the same crap they once themselves handed out. Psychos?

Or Karma maybe? ;)

Anonymous said...

Question Mirror of Aphrodite: If a man promise to call you, but lets say he doesn't call two days later, should I then mirror his behavior? I agree with setting boundaries but sometimes I think all of this is just mind games that I hate to play. It really bothers me that women have to go through all of this. I am in entering in my 30s and I thought by now the game playing would be over and I would be settling down with one person. I am very disappointed with my situation. Does it get better in your 30s because this just straight nonsense

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
No honey, it doesn't get better, these are simply the differences between men and women in how they think and how they process their emotions and the time it takes them to do so. It never changes and men in their 40's, 50's and 60's act the same.

It's not games. It's a difference in emotions and how they're handled by each. When women feel something, they charge at it, they want more of it and they want it right now.

Men aren't like that. The natural intimacy cycle of a man is to submerge himself in you, then come up for air. Submerge himself in you, then come up for air. And that never changes, sweetie. Additionally, they acutely aware that women are emotionally driven and without even realizing it, they use this to their advantage. Mother Nature set it up this way, so that continuation of the species was ensured. And again, that will never change.

So you either have to get with the program and start to understand the differences between men and women and behave accordingly - or do the same thing that you've always done, and repeatedly get the same failed results.

So yes, when a man takes two days to call you, you mirror his behavior and you take two days to return that call. That's how you set boundaries with a man in a language that he understands. Because if you jump on those calls, he'll pick up on that as neediness and he'll have the upper hand and you'll have no control over whether or not he's able to hurt you.

It's not about playing games, sweetie. It's about not getting run over and left for dead.

Anonymous said...

LOL@ getting run over and left for dead!!! So true, so true! Maintaining boundaries is very important for me. When I assess myself, I can see that this has been my downfall in my relationships with people in general. I'm just trying to find the balance in being good to people, to myself and not taking any crap when poeple take me for granted. I also am trying to learn when I should give people the benefit of the doubt. It's just hard..Lol!

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror.......I love your site!!! Your advice makes a lot of sense; however I have a question...lets say your ex resurfaced and the conversation went well. At the end of the call, the ex told you to call him or text him sometimes. Would you recommend that I do so or would you let him take the lead in keeping in touch???? To be honest, I was surprised he said that but I was still happy to hear from him. Miss him!!! I have broken most of the rules by taking the lead. However, it is time to do something different.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
There's an old saying, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

I agree, it's time to do something different ;-)

Tya Jenyce said...

To The Mirror of Aphrodite -- you have such unique, wonderful, and fitting analogies. I love the one you used about inviting evil in. You have such wisdom. I think that many of us know intrinsically that what you say is absolutely the truth when it comes to dating and relationships with the most significant ideology stemming from spiritual law: Love yourself first and then love others as yourself. Everything else hinges on that. If we love ourselves enough we will know where to draw the line with people. Turning the other cheek (walking away) is sometimes the only option we have when someone treats us even at the very least, disrespectfully. Walking away and turning the other cheek is a nonreactive way of saying no to undesired behavior and sometimes it is just necessary. And if we love that other person, sometimes it is the absolute necessity.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tya,
"intrinsically that what you say is absolutely the truth"

In it's most simple form - it nothing more than common sense (i.e the removal of "emotion" from the thought process).

"Love yourself first and then love others as yourself."

Amen!

Walking away is one of the hardest things for most of us to do - but it is also one of the biggest gifts we can grant ourselves - emotional strength and self-discovery :-)

Anonymous said...

I found your articles by accident and I am glad I did. The timing couldn't be any better. I have dating this guy for a few months and hung out often however the last two times we made plans to hangout and the first time he didn't set a time and I made other plans and went out. The time after that he disappeared the day before and apologizes the day after. My fault was that I didn't show him the consequences for his actions ( if only I had seen this article then) after that day his texts have become less frequent and he stopped calling. It was then I found this site and initiated no contact. He last texted me last Thursday and I haven't initiated any contact and neither has he. I did the whole drop of the face of the earth even got off Facebook since it is nothing but trouble.
It sucks because I feel like an idiot in this whole process. I'm a Taurus by the way

Anonymous said...

A girlfriend of mine had a date with a man she has dated for nearly two years, she dumped him once, but he called her after 5 months, she took almost two months to see him again for various reasons, but she says that when they saw each other again, it was absolutely amazing, ( meant to be and all) he also told her time and again how much he had missed her, and treated her like a QUEEN (her words) she likes him very much and she feels that she is in love with him but she's afraid to go too fast, she asks me for advice but I do not know what to say, they had two dates since they met again, and on the second date (one month after the first) he told her over dinner that he had kissed another girl, she reacted by saying that she did not know what to say, she tells me she felt kind of numb so she decided to take it easy, (since they were dating) she told me that she felt strange( not mad not happy) maybe because she was in a little shock, she says that she told him in a calm way that it was not something that was nice to be told over dinner, but he said that he told her about it because he did not want to have any secrets between them, (they have never agree to be exclusive, but he has asked her about it ones) she said that she only dated him at the moment, because of personal reasons ( she told him that she feels better dating a guy at the time at least sexually, they spoke no more about it, and just had a nice evening, they ended the evening in a nice and romantic way… The day after he sent her an e-mail where he says among other things, like asking how she is and all: sorry if I hurt you with what what I told you, she answer him the following, and that's where I do not know what to say to her: I appreciate your honesty and I don´t blame you because of the way I felt about what you told me, and I felt that I needed to be honest too, even when I know that we are not exclusive . After that she has not heard any more from him, it´s been over 4 weeks now, I just don´t know what to say to her that can help (I gave her the link to this blog thou) she don´t want to write here and I told her I would do it, and she said whatever….I told her not to contact him, but I really feel like she is somehow hurting and keeping it all inside, but in denial or something. And I have a worse situation my self too, so how could I help her? He is a Leo she is a Taurus.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
"I appreciate your honesty and I don´t blame you because of the way I felt about what you told me, and I felt that I needed to be honest too, even when I know that we are not exclusive."

Regretfully, she played her cards there. She admitted that the news upset her to an extent. And this is where men pull stunts to reassure themselves that a woman likes them - via her reaction. And by addressing this news and sharing her feelings with him on it, she just reassured him that she cares for him.

So now that he has that reassurance, the "uncertainty" for him is gone. And "uncertainty" actually heightens attraction:

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/wlas0006/1001a/Uncertainty%20Heightens%20Romantic%20Attraction.pdf

And this is because people have a tendency to want what they can't have:

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Wallin22.html

So when a man thinks he's got a woman right where he wants her a funny thing can happen - he suddenly loses interest and doesn't want her as bad anymore :-(

So the best thing to do right now, for herself, is to initiate no contact once again - as she's already done.

And I imagine he'll be back. Only this time when he returns, she can handle it differently with the new insights gained.

Anonymous said...

Hei MOA is me the Taurus girl my friend wrote you about I am from Lisboa so I call myself Lisboa :-)

I do understand what you are saying, still I wonder how can one keep that behaviour after two years of knowing that person? Personally if I like someone, I do not loose interest if they say they like me too it does actually make me very happy.

And even when I told him I did not like it, I did not make any drama and kept my cool.

And what do you mean by if he comes back, I can handle it differently with the new insights gained?

Should I tell him I don´t care if he meets with other woman?

Like right now I feel less atracted to him for no contacting me. even when it makes me sad. I feel like not seeing him ever again :-(

Thank You.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lisboa,
The new insights gained from the knowledge that uncertainty heightens attraction. (In those two links I provided.)

"I wonder how can one keep that behaviour after two years of knowing that person? Personally if I like someone, I do not loose interest if they say they like me too it does actually make me very happy."

Because "uncertainty" about whether or not someone likes you - actually heightens attraction (read the links I provided in the first comment to you here).

And also because men and women think very differently. Women like constant attention and communication. Men do not. Men like to submerse themselves in you, then come up for air, then submerse themselves in you, then come up for air.

They do not have the need for constant attention and affection that women have. There's an old saying that applies here, "Familiarity breeds contempt." Meaning, too much of a good thing actually creates resentment.

And there's another old saying that applies, "Absence makes the heart grow fonder." Meaning, when you're away from someone, it actually makes them miss you more and grow more fond of you.

Anonymous said...

@ Lisboa Thank you MOA, But I do believe that things like uncertainty and wanting what one can´t have in relationships belong to some moments in life and must never become a rule in how we approach men or woman and our relationships all together. It is true that at the first stages of a realtionship it is a must to lean back and let the men do the hunting, but in the later stages when we know what we want and don´t want and all we are getting is some confusing game, it is better to tell it as it is. And that should go both ways.

http://powertochange.com/sex-love/menwant/

ps I am not a christian or believe in one GOD. But I do believe in love.

Lots of love to you and thank you for an amazing site.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lisboa,
Let us know how that works out for you ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA! This is going off of Lisboa's link. I think she intended it to be an argument (If I'm wrong I'm sorry) but I think it applies more to when the relationship has been firmly established rather than the beginning. This sparked a question.

There has to be a point in a relationship where it goes from the man chasing the woman to both lovingly chasing each other.

I completely agree that the man should be the one who calls, texts, and asks for dates...for a while. I would imagine once a man gets to the point where he really loves a woman that he would naturally want to know how she feels about him too. If a man is trying and trying and the woman he's after is still acting aloof after he feels that he's proven that he's a good man who's truly into her, he's going to start to get tired of chasing her and assume that she's playing games. There are definitely both men and women out there who love to string the person that's interested in them along, which really sucks if you're the interested party. We look for signs that a man is playing games or isn't really serious or just after sex. Men look for the same signs in women.

Men DEFINITELY love the chase but when does a woman let a man catch her? When do us women know when to start showing him that we know how to treat a good man? We can only run for so long before we cave in and let him know that we think he's amazing, lol. This isn't to question your theories because God knows I'm going to change my approach with guys. I'm just trying to get your thoughts on the later on down the road stages and when we should start to let go a little and share our feelings with him.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
The reason I didn't respond to the link Lisboa supplied is because - we'd be talking about two different beasts here.

That article refers very clearly to several things:

"I asked a number of men and women who are actively involved in personal growth and development. . ."

Those are not the type of men being discussed here. Clearly, we're not talking about "men actively involved in personal growth and development." We're talking about men who are disappearing and reappearing out of thin air - only to disappear again. We're talking about men who take women for granted. We're talking about men who say one thing and then do another.

Doesn't sound like any of them are "men actively involved in personal growth and development" to me.

The writer then goes on to say:

"Great men want and need straightforward, courageous communication without anger or criticism."

I believe all men can appreciate that type of communication (non emotional). However, she's not talking about ALL men there - she's talking about GREAT men - and great men are referred to as GENTLEMEN. I don't think a man who disappears and reappears at whim is a gentleman. I don't think a man that takes a woman for granted is a great man and I don't think that men who say one thing and then do another are great men either.

Great men can handle honest communication - because they're mature. Immature men cannot handle honest, upfront communication from women. They run from it. And if that communication happens to be overly emotional in any way, even great men will run from it and feel overwhelmed by it.

That piece is providing information on an entirely different breed of man. It's like looking for the instructions to build a coffee table - when you're actually trying to hang a door, LOL. How are the instructions to build a coffee table ever going to help you to hang a door?

They're not.

She's talking about men who are ready for relationships, men who are ready to settle down, men who are ready for commitment, men who are working on themselves and are "actively involved in personal growth and development," men who are mature and men who are responsible and reliable.

Clearly - none of that applies to the men being discussed on this site, LOL. We're talking about an entirely different breed of man.

To answer your questions:

"he would naturally want to know how she feels about him too."

Very true. And HE will be the one to bring the subject up FIRST when he's ready for that talk. Problem is, most women don't give men the chance to do that - to actually be men. Many women begin to overwhelm the man with her emotions and feelings - before he's even had a chance to realize he has any for her. Men will communicate their feelings - if given the time to do so.

"If a man is trying and trying and the woman he's after is still acting aloof. ."

She should only be acting extremely aloof if he's treating her poorly. If a woman is being treated properly by a man and he's repeatedly following through on his attempts (proving himself) and he's working at the relationship - then providing him a little space and a healthy distance isn't being aloof - it's being patient, kind and considerate of him.

Cont . . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Women need to understand that MEN ACTUALLY LIKE SPACE. When you give a man space, you're actually giving him WHAT HE WANTS and WHAT HE NEEDS. Space, breathing room and a feeling of independence. The feeling of being a man.

But what happens is, women project THEIR feelings onto the man. They say, "Well gee. I like being with someone 24/7 when I have feelings for them. I like talking about my feelings all the time and showing my emotions openly. And if I do, then that means he must be exactly like me - and want the same things."

And that is simply not the truth.

The truth is - men are NOT women. Men don't like constant 24/7 affection, feelings or emotions. Men like space. Men like a feeling of independence. Men need lots of time to think and to process their emotions. Men do not like to feel pressured and forced into things. Men like time with themselves and with their friends. Men like to not think about anything half the time.

Men are very DIFFERENT from women. And many women fail to recognize this and instead, project their wants and needs onto the man - as if they're one and the same.

"he's proven that he's a good man who's truly into her, he's going to start to get tired of chasing her and assume that she's playing games."

If he's proven he's a good man and he's treating her properly and he's not disappearing on her and he's communicating his feelings for her in his actions - then there's no need for the woman to be running. She can slowly begin making herself available to the man while still providing him the space he needs to feel confident in moving forward with her.

"Men DEFINITELY love the chase but when does a woman let a man catch her?"

When he treats her right. When his actions align with his words. When he makes time for her, asks her on dates, treats her as valuable, respects her, calls when he says he will, makes her feel special, proves that he's reliable, is supportive of her, is in love with her and has asked her for a commitment.

"When do us women know when to start showing him that we know how to treat a good man?"

After he's performed all of the above that I just referenced.

"We can only run for so long before we cave in and let him know that we think he's amazing."

It actually should be the other way around - when HE CAVES IN and lets YOU know that HE thinks YOU'RE amazing ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

I should add that, in Lisboa's case:

"she answer him the following, and that's where I do not know what to say to her: "I appreciate your honesty and I don´t blame you because of the way I felt about what you told me, and I felt that I needed to be honest too, even when I know that we are not exclusive." After that she has not heard any more from him, it´s been over 4 weeks now."

Clearly, this didn't work. Clearly, she's not dealing with a mature man that can handle that type of communication. She's dealing with a disappearing man, an immature man, who is undecided and isn't ready to commit (based on his actions).

". .in the later stages when we know what we want and don´t want and all we are getting is some confusing game, it is better to tell it as it is."

That's fine, if you're prepared to let go. If you're prepared to end it. And if you're prepared to end it - you don't sit around wondering where he is months later - because you ended it, it's over.

And you certainly don't turn around and attempt the same exact thing a month later, thinking that the same exact behavior that failed - is somehow suddenly going to magically produce different results.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results ;-)

And there's some projection of female feelings and emotions taking place as well:

"Personally if I like someone, I do not loose interest if they say they like me too it does actually make me very happy."

There's an assumption being made there that "if this is the way I feel, then this must be the way he feels too."

And obviously, that was not the case.

I think this man expected a bit more of a challenge or a bit more resistance here (the excitement that men love) and instead, he was hit with feelings, hurt and emotions. He realized that he disappointed her and that she was still just as attached as she was when things originally went wrong and, as a result, he backed off.

Because when something that didn't work before hasn't changed - it's not going to work now.

He realizes that "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."

And because of this, he's not willing to attempt it again at this time :-(

Anonymous said...

Thanks MOA :) I'm learning so much reading your posts and I really like that you respond as much as you can. There's light bulbs going off in the minds of many women lol. I wasn't really talking about her situation in particular (though your answer was very insightful)...that whole thing is what made that question pop in my mind. :)

I've read so much about what to do with the shady, disappearing, insecure men that I started to wonder what to do with a good man to keep his interest. Sometimes us women, as we know and you explained, can run a good man off because we're so afraid of losing him we tend to get clingy. Us, as women need to gain enough self esteem and confidence to know that a GOOD man will stick around because he knows what he's got and is afraid to lose US.

I haven't dated in quite a while so I needed to get a refresher on how men think when it comes to dating. You explain things VERY well. Thanks for enlightening us women!

Anonymous said...

Thank You MOA, for going into this so deeply.

I must say that no, I was not ready to let go, but I just felt That I could not sit around and take his at times so immature behaviour anymore, I guess what I tried to do here was tell him in a few words that I was hurt and then I started NC. I never intended to end it , and he knows that, because we have been in the same place before, back then he tried to fix it rigth away asking me for a break and then coming back, I tok him back and then after a while he started behaving in the same way again.


You are rigth when you say Clearly, this didn't work. Clearly, she's not dealing with a mature man that can handle that type of communication. She's dealing with a disappearing man, an immature man, who is undecided and isn't ready to commit (based on his actions). Well half of the time he is been like that. That is why the whole thing it´s been so confusing, and difficult for me to know what to do.

I guess that with my EMOTIONAL behaviour back then I did play all my cards, because I felt that half of the time, he was stringing me along, and I felt taken for granted.

My question now is do you think that I have I ruined all my chances? I read here of women who have had bigger emotional displays than what I had, and to whom you said to start NC and that it may help. Can it help here even when I kind of closed the door?

Can a little display of feelings and honesty really destroy something that has actually been very wonderful too?

I have a very difficult time thinking I could have done better here :-(

Thank You
Lisboa

ps: I never assume that anyone should feel like I do, unless they share with me that they feel like I do and at the best I had with this man he did.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lisboa,
"back then he tried to fix it rigth away asking me for a break and then coming back, I tok him back and then after a while he started behaving in the same way again."

If/when that happens again, if/when he returns, DO NOT immediately jump right back in where you left off and DO NOT immediately let him back into your life. He has to PROVE himself here. Because when a man realizes he can simply apologize and get his way again - it's only a matter of time before the behavior begins again. Why? Because it was too easy for him to get away with. And because an apology was all it took to get back into your good graces.

Next time, don't make it so easy. Hang back, let him work at it and make him prove himself to you. Doing that is for YOU. It's in YOUR best interests to look out for YOURSELF - so that a man cannot run you over and leave you for dead again like that.

"Well half of the time he is been like that."

Each and every time a man treats a woman like that, the woman should NOT make herself available to the man. The woman should pull back and go into "protection" mode, self-preservation mode. When a man is treating you poorly, you should not make yourself available to him. Don't reward him with your time and affections.

When a dog pees on the floor, you don't give it a treat. There is a consequence for that action. Well, the same goes for men. When a man treats you poorly, you do not reward him for that by making yourself available to him. There is a consequence for bad behavior and poor treatment - and that consequence is - he has no access to you.

"I guess that with my EMOTIONAL behaviour back then I did play all my cards, because I felt that half of the time, he was stringing me along, and I felt taken for granted."

Next time a man treats you like that, don't say a word - simply leave. Do not answer his calls, do not speak with him, do not return his calls or agree to see him. Again, that is the consequence for his poor treatment of you. And men understand ACTION much better than words and EMOTIONS. If you do what I just said above and disappear on him, he'll hear that message loud and clear.

"My question now is do you think that I have I ruined all my chances?"

Not at all. A woman by the name of Kay just reported a man has reappeared after 75 days of NC. Regardless of any emotional displays, time is what men need. And with enough time passed, many of them return - approximately 90% of them return. But TIME is the magic here. Men need lots of time to process their emotions and realize they miss a woman to become ready to make another attempt. Sometimes it's one month, sometimes 3 months, sometimes 8 or 9 months and sometimes years. But MANY of them come back.

"I have a very difficult time thinking I could have done better here."

Listen sweetie, this is a reflection of you. This really has nothing to do with you. Yea, sure - you could've handled it differently. But the bottom line is - it's HIM that isn't ready, not YOU. It's HIM that's been behaving badly, not YOU. It's HIM that's unable to communicate maturely enough to work through the issues here, not YOU.

It's him, not you.

So don't beat yourself up here over this. You made only one tiny mistake while he's made several large blunders here, LOL ;-)

Cont . . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Just give this plenty of time. And when/if you hear from him again, do not respond right away. Do not make it easy for him to repeat the same mistakes. Make him work at it and prove himself to you. Return that communication about 3 days later and then begin mirroring his behavior. That's how you create balance and a level playing field.

If he takes 3 days to call you, you take 3 days to return the call. If he says he'll call and then he doesn't, you don't answer the phone the next time he calls, you make him keep trying to reach you (work at it). If he upsets you or disappoints you in any way or treats you poorly, you don't see/talk to him for a week.

You deliver consequences. And then what happens is, he gets the message. He says to himself, "When I treat her bad, I don't get to see/talk to her. If I want to see/talk to her, I have to treat her right."

And the lightbulb goes off in his head and he finally realizes that yes, there are consequences for his poor treatment of you and if he wants to see you, he has to treat you right ;-)

It's not being mean - it's actually being KIND TO YOURSELF.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

I didn't mean "Listen sweetie, this is a reflection of you."

That was a typo - I meant to say this ISN'T a reflection of you :-)

Anonymous said...

Dear @MOA, I was wondering whether you could give me advice. Two weeks ago I met a guy that gives off all the right vibes. He contacted me after we met and last week he asked me out for dinner (which will be coming Friday). I saw him last Friday at an event and we ended up having a very upbeat and personal conversation until the wee hours. But I have not heard from him since. Now I assume he'll check in before coming Friday, but just out of curiosity - what would you advise if I do not hear from him at all before our date on Friday? Which would be a disappearing act of one week? I'd be tempted to 'e-mail off' the dinner date with a glib excuse, saying that some stuff has come up and that unfortunately I have to cancel and hope we'll see each other some other time. What do you think? Thanks from FridayDate

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Yea, we've all met flaky men before, the one's that talk big but do little.

I don't do a damn thing in those cases, LOL. I don't call, I don't email, I don't say a peep. If you do, it just gives them the upper hand and lets them know they stung you.

But when you don't do a thing and you're absolutely silent, it drives them mad, LOL. Because men who do that are players and insecure guys - they do it so that right away, right off the bat, they've brought your insecurities to the surface and they get you to chase them.

They get the upper hand.

I don't even bother. And then what usually happens is - they blow up my phone a couple weeks later like a mad man.

And I refuse them, they don't even get one date. Because if a guy starts off like that - it's never going to get any better so why bother.

The last time that happened to me and I did that, the guy called me for a week solid and I never answered, then he started texting me several times daily telling me he had a gift for me (to lure me out).

I refused the offer and we never had a date. Because you really don't want to let men like that into your life - at all.

Anonymous said...

@MOA thanks so much for your advice. I agree with you - but the problem is that he and I still have this Friday dinner planned (date + place reserved) and my problem is what do I do with that appointment if he does not contact me during the entire week leading up to that appointment? Do I just stand him up, or do I politely brush him off...?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
You leave it be or you simply enjoy the reservation with someone else. The "reservation police" aren't going to come and get you if you miss your reservation because he flaked ;-)

If you do not hear from him by 2 hours previous to the reservation, take someone else or cancel it. If he appears an hour before and questions things, tell him you cancelled because you did not hear from him.

And then let him worry about it, not you ;-)

Anonymous said...

Sorry Mirror, I am so bad at explaining things! He, not ME, made the dinner reservation for our dinner on Friday. It's just that I would feel miffed if he does not contact me during the entire week leading up to the dinner. But maybe it's a man's way to temporarily withdraw and I should not give it a second thought, just show up at the dinner with a smile?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
I see . . hmm. Well, here's what I'd do then, assuming you're supposed to meet him there. Yes, I'd show up at the dinner and if he arrives, correct, smile and don't mention his lack of contact throughout the week at all.

If he doesn't show (don't sit at the table, wait in the front or the lobby if possible before being seated) within 15 minutes after the reservation time - leave. Leave and don't look back. But don't be seated at the table first, so that if he is a no show, you don't have to go through the embarrassment of leaving the table and letting everyone know what just happened.

Wait out front for 15 minutes, then bail. Don't call, don't text, nothing. And if he contacts you after that, NEVER pick up that damn phone, NEVER answer his call/text.

But if he shows up, skip right over all of it, don't mention it and end the date with, "Gimmie' a call sometime."

Place the ball in his court.

Alana said...

I have a similar situation on my hand - was emailing with a brand new online guy who suggested last Sunday that we meet up for coffee. We agreed on this upcoming weekend tentatively, but I flirtily said that I needed to know him a bit more first before meeting him.

He agreed and suggested that we chat on the phone - so I emailed him my number on Monday. According to the system, he hasn't logged in at all this week.

Now I know it's only Wed - but given we haven't firmed up any plans, I guess I won't be meeting him this weekend anymore....

But if I understand the above comments right, would he be considered a "flake" such that I shouldn't meet him at all??

-Alana

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Alana,
Well, let's see if he uses the "3 day rules" here, LOL:

1) He may wait 3 days to call you (which would be tomorrow, Thursday).

2) That gives you 3 days advance notice to accept the date (no last minute dates or a man will always make you his last minute priority).

At this point, I wouldn't deem him a flake. But if he calls Saturday and wants to keep the Sunday date - nope. You've already made plans (even if you haven't) and you'll have to reschedule.

That signals:

1) You're time is valuable, others demand it as well and he'll have to be respectful of it.

2) You make your own decisions and are not desperate for a date

3) You won't jump at the last minute for a man

When you make yourself available to a man at the last minute, they tend to treat you that way from that day forward - and they end up being the guy that phones at 4PM on a Friday, trying to set up a Saturday evening date.

Until eventually, he becomes the guy that's ringing your phone at 2:15AM (15 minutes after the bar closes) wanting to come over and plop himself down on your sofa hoping to eventually work his way right into your bed by 2:45AM.

Alana said...

MOA,

Yup, ok, that's what I'm thinking too... Thanks!

-Alana

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. I would like your advice. I've been dating a man for almost two months....maybe a month in a half. We have a long distance relationship. Anyway, my friend did not send me a card or flowers. He said when he returns to visit me he will make it up. My question is if he was really interested wouldn't he send at least a card or flowers?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Yes, I would think so :-(

Anonymous said...

But like you always say....men demonstrate love by their actions...not talk or promises. Actions!!!!! See, I am learning..:)

Anonymous said...

I enjoy other ladies' updates on the status quo, so here's mine for you to read, if you want. I wrote earlier that 'my' guy had made dinner reservations for yesterday but did not contact me at all the entire week leading up to the date, which prompted me to ask MOA whether I should bail out. MOA said: be wary of him being a no-show and never look back if he is. But it turned out a bit differently. On V-day I got his (at first glance sweet) email, saying he'd buy me dinner on Friday instead of flowers for V-day. But as we had already set the dinner date one week earlier I thought that was a bit lame and did not respond. On Friday, one hour before before the dinner, he texts me to know if I am still up for dinner. I text back "sure, see you there". I come, he's there waiting, on his best behavior, and tries to find out why I did not contact him (because MOA says not to initiate contact, but I could not tell him that haha), that "I must have been really busy at work" ("sure", I said) and then he asks why I had not responded to his V-day email. I shrug and jokingly say: "Well, I needed to think about it. You see I have never gotten a recycled dinner invitation for Valentine before and did not quite know how to appreciate it" and I smiled. OH!! That hit home, ladies! He paid the bill, helped in my coat, ordered taxis, was a gent all evening. He did challenge me, though, saying that he did not feel it was fair that I am so suspicious of him, and that he does not deserve being dealt with a treatment that's based on my experience with other men. I remarked it had nothing to do with other men, that these are my principles and apply equally and that I have no problem walking away if things turn sour as a result(which is true). That pissed him off big time, and he asked if I was trying to scare him. Anyway we had a nice evening and we kissed a long goodbye before going home separately. I did not commit to seeting a new date, dspite his attempts, I just said: just drop me an email or give me a call and we'll talk about it.Now I am sitting home feeling OK, and slightly hormonal because of the kissing, but a bit worried about my 'stern' approach. he has a point, you know. I do feel that I am being very strict with him. What do you ladies think?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
LOL, do not be deterred by his reaction. Men will ALWAYS attempt to use guilt and manipulation to make things easier for them:

"I remarked it had nothing to do with other men, that these are my principles and apply equally and that I have no problem walking away if things turn sour as a result(which is true). That pissed him off big time, and he asked if I was trying to scare him."

He attempted to make you feel guilty for your principals and he attempted to manipulate you back into a submissive position with him - so HE can control this.

Because notice how you holding to your principals here affected him:

"I shrug and jokingly say: "Well, I needed to think about it. You see I have never gotten a recycled dinner invitation for Valentine before and did not quite know how to appreciate it" and I smiled. OH!! That hit home, ladies! He paid the bill, helped in my coat, ordered taxis, was a gent all evening."

The reason he was so upset by the second response was because he was starting to feel his power over you slip away - and he knows that will place him at a disadvantage here.

So him getting upset at the second remark was his way of attempting to gain back control and his power (through guilt and manipulation).

Men will always attempt to take control of a woman in any way they can. And the more desperate they become, the more forceful and angry they become in their attempts to do so.

The only thing I may have done a tad different is I may have given him somewhat of a "green" light on future dates (if you actually want another date with him and he's treated you well). I may have been a bit more upbeat about it in the tone it was delivered in. As in, "Sure, that sounds like fun. Gimmie' a call sometime and we'll set something up."

Meaning, I might have been a little more positive about it. Instead of saying, "We'll talk about it" I would've left that out of the equation and simply said, "Gimmie' a call sometime and we'll make arrangements."

You don't reveal your cards. Meaning, you don't signal to the man that you'll "consider" a second date. (Even if that's what you're going to do, you don't tell them that up front, LOL ;-) You simply invite them to call and when they do, you consider accepting the second date at that time - and you never tell them that's what you're doing ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

I recently stumbled across your blog and thank God I did as it's brought me lots of wisdom!

I have a question for you. I met a guy at a festival last August. We kissed and swapped phone numbers with him saying he wanted to take me out the following day. We never did meet up but we were texting. In fact this went on for quite some weeks with two more failed attempts at meeting up. The first time he was apologetic and stuck in traffic (supposedly) the second time, he checked the Tuesday before to see if we were still meeting on the Saturday and when I confirmed I never heard from him. On that note I deleted his number and off of my FB and vowed I wouldn't be treated that way.

Exactly as your articles predict, I heard from him at the beginning of this year. I questioned his behaviour - he was apologetic. Said he knew he'd gone off the radar but was always interested. So, on the basis I had some chemistry with this guy and that he showed at least some remorse, I told him we could make a fresh start.
The texting started again but not as frequently but I adopted at least some of the behavioural mirroring you suggest. His continuous flakiness was driving me insane! Then last Monday he says he's in my area on the weekend and it would be great to meet for a drink. I agree and on Friday we confirm time and location. Safe to say mirror - he didn't show or contact me so when I called him on it he sent one reply "I haven't been to bed yet" and has since not responded to my last text.

I can't figure him out. He doesn't fit any of the player signs. I even discuss this situation with a male friend of mine who can't work it out.

I'm furious but mainly with myself for giving him a second chance and because I'm worried I won't get the chance to do as you suggest above and call his bluff. Let him know that this isn't acceptable in my book. Not to mention the fact I keep checking when he's online. Irrational behaviour I don't want to be doing!

So how can I rationalise this in my head so I can move on with it? Should I delete him off my FB for a second time?

PS, I'm a Cancerian and he's a Gemini (just!)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Yes, definitely delete and move on. Into the trash bin he goes. My gut's signaling drug use here. And I know you may be thinking, "No, he's not into drugs" because he may appear otherwise. But these days, drug addicts look much like your next door neighbor. I'm not sure where you're located geographically, but here in the states, prescription drug abuse is at an all time high.

We have soccer moms and corporate types addicted to Xanax, Ambien, Klonopin, Vicodin, Oxycontin - you name it. As a matter of fact, for the first time in history, we have more overdose deaths here from prescription pills than from heroin and cocaine - combined. And when someone blows you off for a date 3 times and then states they haven't even been to bed yet, they're either a party animal, a complete insecure flake that enjoys toying with women's emotions, they're an alcoholic or they're life is a mess and most likely, their on a slew of prescription drugs. When behavior is unexplainable like this - drugs and/or alcohol are usually the culprit.

Any way you slice it dear, it's not good. I don't believe that this man had 3 situations that denied him the ability to make the date. I don't buy that for one moment.

And this is why the courtship period is so VERY important. Because how someone behaves and treats you in the very early stages of dating, is how they will behave and treat you in the latter stages of a relationship:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/02/courtship-dating-benefits.html

There are a TON of red flags here dear. Don't waste one minute of your time worrying about this or thinking you've done something wrong. Don't ever speak to him again, he doesn't deserve it and he's luring you in and disarming you when he does it.

Assume you've met a very troubled individual here, do not let that toxicity into your life and move on.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the quick reply. I think you might be right. The fact I haven't had an apology speaks volumes.

I hope he gets in touch just so I get the opportunity to ignore him. ��

PS, I'm reading why men love bi*ches
PPS, you should also recommend Greg Behrendt's books, it's called a break up because its broken, he's just not that into you and it's just a date because you both speak similar wisdom

Thanks again!!!

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

your blog contains a lot of wisdom, I am very glad I´ve found it.

Well, my problem is that my man is dominant. He is a boss in his job and he behaves like one when he is with me, too. He listens to me, tries to understand and support me, but in his own way, without actually hearing me. And he must usually have the last word. As I said, he is supportive, but I don´t feel he perceives me as an equal.

Do you believe there is something I can do about it? To broaden his perspective somehow? I know that you can´t change anybody, but maybe there is an approach I could try. I am a free spirit and I can´t stand being controlled. At the same time I realize that nobody is perfect and if I dumped him, another man might have traits I would find even less tolerable.

Please, comment. Thanks a lot.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
Well, that's a bit tricky because each situation will be different. However, regarding things that are important to you, you may want to sit him down or catch him when he's sitting down, speak briefly and clearly and look him in the eye.

If you think he's ignoring you or not hearing you, get up from your seat and walk away. Not angry, just leave abruptly. With any luck, he'll notice that he's not giving you his full, undivided attention and/or accepting your input on the matter.

And do this repeatedly. State your case and if it falls on deaf ears, abruptly leave. Don't get angry, don't complain or anything, just leave. And like I said, with any luck, hopefully he'll realize that he's not giving you equal say and/or that you feel under appreciated and he'll come and sit, and give you his full attention.

Silence and unavailability - it's generally something men take note of ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your advice. It sounds a bit exhausting but I´ll take your advice and give it a try. You are right, much talking with a man leads nowhere, it´s better to be unavailable instead.

Anonymous said...

I've been reading all your articles and find them extremely facinating. My mother God bless her is a very wise woman and always told my sister and I that "all men need to be trained". It is pretty much what you have said in every article.

I myself have just walked away from a situation that was unacceptable. Very matter a factly I made my boundaries clear - I am not interested in revisiting the situation and look at it as my service to whatever woman comes after me.

My mother also said that men are very literal creatures - you can tell them a hundred times how you feel and they will not get it but if you show them how it feels then they will get the message. Which brings me to this particular anecdote.

This is of course the extreme and I don't suggest anyone else try this. I have a friend who's parents were married for thirty years and for all that time her father cheated on her mother. She would tell me that everytime it happened how distraught her mother would be and her father would make his appologies and go right back to doing what he was doing.

Well something changed in her mother one day and rather than cry and feel sorry for herself she went out and got herself a nice young buck - you know the ones with the nice strong back and more energy than that bunny in the commercial. Well I guess her husband noticed that spring bounce in her step and demanded to know what was going on and she told him mater a factly I might add.

In true man fashion he hit the roof - ranted and carried on totally forgetting that he had done the same to her for thirty years with countless women. So he left and she shrugged and went about her business.

Fast forward six months when he came home and they hashed it out and my friends mother told her that the only way he was going to understand the hurt, anger and betrayal she felt all those years was for him to know exactly what it felt like.

That was thirteen years ago and since then he has kept his behind quiet and not taken his wife for granted since.

Lesson learned - lol!

Anonymous said...

Oh, what a story. I am also the kind of a woman who doesn´t allow men to continue putting her down and I dump them. This has happened a few times and each time the man was shocked, which means he experienced it for the first time. I wish there were more women capable of training men out there so that women like us wouldn´t have to do all the dirty work again and again. :(

Anonymous said...

Hey I tell men who try to bring thier rubbish my way this all the time - "I can be unhappy all by myself, I don't need some man adding to it. Take care of your issues then give me a call - if i am still around by then we will talk. Otherwise I have bigger fish to fry." That usually weeds out the foot draggers, time wasters, idiots, losers and players in one fell swoop.

NYC

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@NYC,
Amen, LOL ;-)

VirgoPal said...

I had a man who disrespected me starting on the first date. It was definitely shame on me. I did tell him how I didn't appreciate it, but I think it fell on deaf ears. He was good for the next few dates, but he started to exhibit the same traits eventually:Trying to control me, asking inappropriate sex questions, and basically using me as a sex object.

I think sometime we try to justify the behaviors when we usually don't because we don't want to lose a " good prospect." We sometimes get in the habit thinking this one is different or thinking you can change them. However, I learned a good prospect doesn't make inappropriate sex jokes on the first date, show up 45 minutes late, ask about how much money I make, inquire about who I live with...I can go on and on and on..... And this was from the same MAN! Yeah, I should've known from the first date that 1. he didn't care about me 2. he was looking for sex 3. He is selfish. I can't believe I didn't walk out on him. Ugh..makes me so upset!

I am fearless now, and I have decided not to take crap from any man. If they are not on point from the beginning, then it has no where to go. A man who's ready for a relationship will be on the top of his game from the beginning. What you see early is what you will always get. Believe it ladies!

Anonymous said...

Hi, Mirror :)...(my baby kitty's name is actuallly Aphrodite by the way!)

i apologize in advance for the long explanation.

i've been dating a man who was betrayed by his wife of 10 years and has a 6 year old son who he shares custody with.

i've always been the one to open up more personal conversations between us and he's always liked it, followed, and expressed appreciation for that.

i was also the one to initiate conversations about whether we wanted to still see other people, be active online with our profiles (how we met), etc. after we kissed a couple of weeks ago after a month of dating. he was still active and so was i but less often, and he said he was interested only in getting to know me. he explained he wasn't looking online, most of the time his 'active' status was because of the app on his phone being open.

since then we've gone on to snuggle, be sensual, but nothing more. he has spent the evening once doing just that & sleeping.

he has rarely respected my explicit expression of preference to make plans at least a bit in advance, explaining he does that for work to an extreme degree & likes spontaneity. i've agreed to last-minute plans as a supplement to advanced planning, as i'm happy with both, but not just with one (or frankly without the other).

he's expressed from date 1 ideas of fidelity matching mine, but at the same time mentioned female friends, online women, all propositioning him for either sex or relationships that he's turned down. however, recently he admitted that he had exchanged unflattering emails with some of these women even though originally he'd said he hadn't replied to these 'base' offers...he continues to mention that women approach him every day to go out with him, but that he's not interested and only wants to go out with me.

(this in response to my continued inquiries since i discovered he lied about being online one day when he had been- i was asking to check honesty, not so much caring about his activity level as much, and told him so afterward).

i had to really really work and insist to get him to align his story of "not" having been onling that day with the fact that he'd visited a profile of someone i know well. he never outright admitted it, but he added some qualifiers and new facts to his previous story to admit it indirectly.


i still felt strange and not trusting. we were at this point at the end of a long day for him and late evening and about to get in bed (the second time in two weeks) to cuddle and have him spend the night when i realized we still hadn't firmed up plans for the weekend and were on the eve of wednesday. so i said, oh by the way- which day are we going to get together? explaining i had friends asking about my availability, and that i'd like to plan.

he avoided, repeating his preference for day-before plans, i repeated my preferences and emphasized this was not a work day, but a holiday weekend- he complained he'd have to get out his calendar and he was tired, could we do it in the morning? i repeated i was excited to see him, we'd just spent the evening talking about being a couple and what we were looking for possibly in our futures (the other part of the conversation we'd just had) and what we were open to with each other, and it seemed strange to me that he wasn't spontaneously just as excited and wanting to reserve my time. he then said he was going to his parents for sunday...and...on saturday he knew he needed to grocery shop. with that last statemnt, which he delivered with a strange slow delivery follwed by a smile, i pulled away. i repeated that it didn't make sense- he makes plans for his music/band, his work, his son, but for someone who he's considering as a 'companion', no? it doesn't make sense.

(will send rest in 2nd message ) :)

Anonymous said...

( continued)
i said- please- if you're taking me for a ride, or in any way not being sincere, please tell me now- i'm not just any woman, those you can find out there by the thousands, i'm special. (to say- please don't use me)

he paused, and said, i think i'm going home now.

i answered- okay, so you're saying you're not the right person for me.

he said- no it's that this is more of the same thing as before(with me questioning his trustworthiness and motives with me) and i'm tired and said we could do this in the morning,..etc..

unfortunately i made the mistake of backing up and trying to take him up on his offer to set up plans in the morning. at that he insisted he'd decided already to go, and then he went ahead and opened his calendar and lo and behold there was saturday wide open, to which he turned to the previous week and pointed to a day where he'd made plans with me long in advance (which i in fact had canceled as they involved his son and not feeling sure about where he was coming from with me i wanted more time before playing 'family' together, which we'd already done when he introduced me a couple weeks ago the last time he had custody)

i apologized to him and asked him to stay. although he kissed me several times before/as he left and said we'd talk about it another time, he left, saying he had too much on his plate with everything (work was an 8 hour drive that day and his ex is being very uncooperative and aggressive...to be fair he knew the conversation between us was coming that evening, as i'd mentioned needing to finish what we'd talked about (when he originally had lied/omitted?) several days before)

he skipped a day of texting for the first time in 2 months. the next day texted just about how his computer, etc. was stolen out of his car and he was devestated. i only replied with a link to some music. then yesterday, he send a two-word text (in italian) asking if i was working that day. i didn't reply.

i realized after the first part of our conversation that night that i don't think i would ever be able to trust this man. he sends up too many red flags around betrayal.

feedback would be most welcome, if you have the time.

blessings,
an

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mar 30, 2013 10:05 AM,
"he continues to mention that women approach him every day to go out with him, but that he's not interested and only wants to go out with me."

This sounds very odd to me. Who is trying to convince of this - you - or himself, LOL? Because it sounds like insecurity and overcompensation, having to repeatedly remind you that you have "competition" of some sort. That's a tactic that men like to use to make a woman feel insecure, so she'll chase him. Don't fall for it.

"he never outright admitted it, but he added some qualifiers and new facts to his previous story to admit it indirectly."

Another red flag dear :-( Sounds to me like he's manipulating you.

"i still felt strange and not trusting"

And rightfully so. This isn't YOUR doing, it's HIS. Meaning, there's nothing wrong with you for feeling that way - he's MAKING you feel that way via his actions.

"repeating his preference for day-before plans"

Another big red flag. Non-committal and leaving his "options" open (i.e. not making YOU a priority and expecting YOU to be available to HIM at a last minutes notice).

"which he delivered with a strange slow delivery followed by a smile, i pulled away"

BINGO!!! That's actually what's recently been termed "duping delight" in the book, "You Can't Lie to Me" by Janine Driver, a lie detection expert for the ATF, FBI and CIA.

BIG RED FLAG DEAR :-( That was a complete and total lie and he smiled because it was a lie and he was pleased with himself at his ability to "dupe" you into believing it. And the way you felt after hearing it was your gut speaking to you, your women's intuition - and you should listen to it.

"he paused, and said, i think i'm going home now."

Notice - he DIDN'T say NO right away. He avoided the question. Another red flag.

"he said- no it's that this is more of the same thing as before(with me questioning his trustworthiness and motives with me) and i'm tired and said we could do this in the morning,..etc."

Bullsh*t. He's not doing anything to reassure you here - he's manipulating you by placing the blame on you - when it's HIS actions that are MAKING you feel this way.

"i don't think i would ever be able to trust this man. he sends up too many red flags around betrayal."

I agree and I don't blame you one bit. None of this is YOUR doing, it's HIS. Acting like this, he'd make any woman feel this way. He brings this on himself, then turns around and manipulatively blames the woman for feeling odd about it - when it's HIM that's behaving oddly.

RUN dear. This man is NO GOOD and if you were to be in a relationship with this man, he'd be pulling these pranks and stunts all the time. He'd never be able to make you happy and he'd steal your confidence and self esteem right out from underneath you, leaving you confused and full of self doubt.

Don't give him the opportunity to do that. Disappear on him and begin no contact immediately - with the intention of NEVER speaking to him again. And don't be "nice" to him by offering him an explanation about it.

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/dating-when-why-how-use-no-contact-rule.html

A man that doesn't feel the need to explain himself and his actions to YOU - doesn't deserve to have you explain yourself or your actions to HIM.

Turnabout is fair play dear.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Mirror-
That man is no good. I had someone in my past who did similar things you described. It's all a game. The best way to beat them is to never SLEEP with them and just disappear without explaination. He's probably insecure and is just trying to use you!

Anonymous said...

Hey Aphrodite,
I really appreciate all the work and time you put into your website trying to help other women in confusion.
I've been in a long distance relationship for the last 5 months. We knew each other from a popular social site where he replied to one of my comments and we started debating on a certain subject. Afterwards, he sent me a personal message wanting to discuss more and wanting to know more about me. One month later, he asked for my email and we began chatting on msn.
We went along very well, we had same interests, same taste in music, same dry sense of humor, and same values in general. Even when we disagreed on some issue, we always managed to respect each other differences and we felt that we completed each other. That first day when we talked on msn I informed him that next day i'm going to a driving lesson. The next day he left me numerous offline messages saying' hey where have you been' ' i'm getting really worried about you'
When I logged later on that day he told me to that to leave each other offline message to inform each other how our day is going if we won't be online. I agreed and we both did that for the next months.
I forgot to mention that he's currently living and working in my hometown and I'm recently graduated so I left to find a job in the country i'm currently residing in.
Back when we were sending message on that site, he used to inform me that he's on medication where he suffers from an autoimmune disease affecting his lower back and pelvis. He's a freelance electrical engineer so most of his work is done in his own house. He also informed me about the medication he's on since I'm a pharmacist.
Because of his disease, he would disappear for 2 days or so and when I check him he used to say ' sorry I was really tired'
And when I would be busy for a couple of days, he always checked on me - either through offline messages or sending texts.
He always used to tell me how that we're apart is bothering me, that he wants me to be near so we can get to see each other in person. He shared a lot about his vision on our future together and used to tell me everything about his family.

2 months ago, all the mess started. He logged in after 6 days of disappearing, I told him I missed him, he said " sorry, lately I've been really really sick' we chatted and through our conversation I was teasing him a little bit, he got mad, I said I'm really sorry I didn't mean it , he told me I'm not mad, I just need to go, I'll check on you later. He didn't. A couple of days later, I left him offline message checking on him and he didn't reply. I was starting to get worried since he's sick so 2 weeks later I was going through emotional roller-coaster that I literally poured my heart out in the texts I sent him; Later I realized that it was a huge mistake.

Anonymous said...

One month after the incident, he finally replied to one of my pleading messages saying:
" I'm emotionally and physically tired, and even though you're a great person, you do nothing but evoking my wrath and irritating me- almost about everything. Maybe there's nothing wrong with you and I'm the one who's in distress to the point that I'm provoking quarrels, and maybe I don't know how to deal with you. Or maybe you're a complicated person..I just don't know.
Anyway, I need some time to relax recommended by my physician - where there're no movement or emotions. And maybe it's a good opportunity for both of us to think, contemplate and reconsider things. I hope you're feeling the best, from the bottom of my heart.'
At that time, I found a job and signed the contract and I messed up again to tell him something like that. ' I'm really sorry for you feeling like that, I hope you get well soon. Maybe if you told me what's bothering you I would make it easier for you. I got a job and I'll start in one month and I'm worried that we wouldn't talk as much as we did back then, you have no idea how this is bothering me. I'll try to take care of my actions from now on'
A few weeks later I realized that informing him about the job was a mistake. Don't you think that because of him knowing that I had a job he would think that the relationship will take a lot of effort because it will maintain a long distance for an unknown amount of time? I said that to myself and I panicked again so I send him a text 2 weeks later 'Hoping you're fine' he didn't reply.. One month later i sent him a personal message telling him
' We need to talk. I think the no communication is making the relationship more stressful and procrastination in discussing things complicates the situation more and makes things seem much worse than they really are. I know and appreciate that you're tired and that's the last thing you can think of doing right now but trust me this will make things so much easier for you. I think this is the only way, please reconsider it.'

4 days later I sent him a a text saying'please check your inbox, seriously'.Still no reply. I left the job and I'm going back to my hometown to settle down. And I really need to tell him that but I have no idea how. I came across your site by coincidence and I wish I discovered it early before I messed up that much. I read your section on disappearing and the no contact rule but I guess such an info like that would make him see things more clearly that our long distance relationship will happen to end. I'm obsessed with the thought that maybe because he knew I got a job he cut off all the chances of talking to me again and it's really frustrating. What do you think I should do right now? Should I tell him that I left the job?Or that i'm coming back to where he is?
Sorry for my bad English, but I'm a non-native speaker.

Please reply, it would mean the world to me if you did. I'm very thankful if you read all of my nonsense, really.

Anonymous said...

I'm feeling really helpless :( I'm the girl who left the last inquiry and I need some insight. Feeling like I'm loosing control.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
All of the insight you seek is here in this article and on this site. He's told you how he honestly feels and I believe at some point, you need to just accept it dear, as painful as that may be.

Cease worrying about what he thinks and focus on yourself dear. He's not responding to you and you're pleading with him, which isn't attractive to a man :-(

His silence tells you all you need to know...accept the reality and move on sweetie, as best you can.

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for your response, I really appreciate it. But the only thing that's bothering me, where did this all come from? you know what I mean? our relationship was going pretty well. Is it the distance? or is it me? This means that he was trying to break up with me and even with attempting to not contacting him he wouldn't come back. I just don't get it.
thanks again!

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry for writing again but my mind can't stop wondering. Do you think he ever loved me? Why can't he just tell me what went wrong?

Anonymous said...

He did tell you what went wrong - you make him angry and you irritate him I am not sure how much more blunt you want him to be.

You stalking him, and acting like an emotional crazy person with the texts and the emails and telling him what you are doing everytime you do it is a bit much. Let it go and move on because you are coming across as desperate. Sorry!

Anonymous said...

Another good article. Boundaries. Thank you :)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,
my question is this: how should a woman behave when she´s sitting with a man at a table in a restaurant and he is repeatedly ogling some women sitting at another table? Thank you for your comments.

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror,
I've posted previously on a different site but think it must be out of use now. I'm struggling to know how to deal with a friend of 25 years (were both 35 now). Previous trysts when we were teenagers and a short fling ten years ago, which he ended as he said he just didnt think of me that way. I subsequently disappeared (took a while and was painful as some contact remained (live locally and bump into each other from time to time - not planned) but I moved on, met someone else and got married, but that nine year relationship ended a few months ago. He got married and had a child. His wife has left him a couple of times in the last two years and they have lived separately for two years, but they stay in contact because of the child so got back together a year ago. They split two months ago also, and we ended up sleeping together (both single by then) - he said his feelings towards me had changed. He has now said he still has feelings for his wife and wants us to just be friends again. He is an honest guy but I'm confused by the change of feelings towards me, again. I decided that I wasnt going to go down the same path as last time of being just "the friend at times in need" and so told him last week that I was going to disappear for a while, no contact. Ive never done this to him in 25 years and feel a bit selfish now in doing that. Because we have always been "friends" its difficult to justify this disappearing act but what do you think - should I stay gone and if so how long. His last text to me sounded angry - " I'm disappointed and so wont text you again" so I'm not sure if Ive done the right thing?? please help!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Hi Aphrodite,

I need your advice on how to respond to a situation I am going through currently. Recently, my grandmother passed away. My male "friend" of 4 years knew I was extremely close to her and that it was very heartbreaking for me. When I found out about her death, I texted him to let him know about her passing because it happened vert early in the morning. Later that day, the first I received simply said "Damn". I did not reply b/c I was very busy at that point. The second text I received later that night said "Checking on you". I was sleep at that point ao I did not reply until the next day when I told him "I'm making it" and explained that I needed to go to work to keep my mind busy, to which he replied "Ok". That was the last thing I heard from him and that was over a week ago. He hasn't tried to contact me to ask about funeral arrangements, to offer any words of encouragement or support, or to offer to help assist my family/or me in any way. This is especiallyy disappointing to me because just a few months ago when his mother passed away I was such a supportive friend to him and it seems like he's just completely forgotten all of that or just doesn't care.

So, at this point, I'm just really hurt and fed up with him and am pretty much ready to cut this "friend" off completely. Like I said earlier, he knows how close I was to my grandmother and for him to not really be supportive during this time makes me question him as a friend.

What is your opinion? Also, I want to know how I should respond when he does contact me again? What should I say to him?

Sincerely,

~Fed Up~

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Fed Up,
I wouldn't give a man like that the time of day ever again. I'd ignore all calls and texts and I'd remove him from my life as he's proved he's not a friend and that he's only selfish and immature and uncaring.

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/dating-when-why-how-use-no-contact-rule.html

I'd use no contact, from this day forward and I'd never come out of it.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Aphrodite! I definitely needed to hear that. My "friend" texted me earlier today and it said "checking in". I followed your advice and did not reply to his message.

~Fed Up~

Anonymous said...

Hello MoA,
I have a problem with my boyfriend and maybe you´ll be able to help. He often travels on business and I never know when he´ll be back bacause he tells me that he doesn´t know either. For instance yesterday he sent me a text that he´d arrive today and we could meet up but he wasn´t sure if he´d return today or on Sunday. I texted back asking him to let me know today by 3.00 p.m. at the latest. No response. Then at 6.00 p.m. he sent me a text saying he was driving home and would come around 7.00 p.m. and asking me out if I wanted to meet him. Because I din´t know whether he would return today or not, I had started to clean my cellar and when I got his last text I had been dirty and pretty tired already, definitely not in a mood to dress up and meet him. What do you think? Otherwise he is a nice person, we have a lot in common but he won´t respect my time. I have explained to him several times that I need to know in advance, he sometimes lets me know and sometimes it is like today. I wouldn´t mind so much if he wasn´t offended for being rejected afterwards. He has an idea that I will wait for him all day long without having my own life. What would you suggest doing considering that he most probably doesn´t mean it? I don´t want to lose him but on the other side, as I know myself, I am not sure if I could endure this in the long run. Thank you for your insight.

Anonymous said...

What a great empowering article :0)
May i ask for your advice on a situation?
I have been seeing a guy for 6 weeks-not a long time but it has been intense,he text me all day everyday telling me every detail of his day,wanted to spend all his time with me,took me out,cooked for.me,even did my garden for me lol.This guy did all the initiating,and i admit i thought it was abit quick but his actions said he cared about me and it was as tough we were in a relationship..He told me he wanted to settle down so i assumed by his actions we were building a relationship together.
One weekend i had a girls night out organised,he suggested me and my friends meet up with him and his friends that evening-i was flattered he wanted me to meet his friends so i agreed.Then he chamged it again and suggested a bbq at my house,which seemed like a nice idea.My friends agreed to.
Two days later he announces the bbq is cancelled as his mate has invited too many people and its going to rain anyway,they would meet us later in the evening for drinks.I was annoyed by the flippency of this but i let it go and decided to just stick to my origional girls nighy out plan.
That same day i hear him on the phone to his friend lieing about how.much time he spends with me-saying he wasnt staying at my place thay night when he was-it was his best male friend btw.
The next day i didnt hear from him at all which was odd as he initiated contact everyday normally-fine i thought he is entitled to.space.etc.
The next day he is in contact again and says "I might be seeing my.friend tonight,but im not sure as im with him all weekend.If i dont i will come and see you." Again,this was a male friend but i realy felt like a plan B and told him to decide what he wanted to do.
Then he announces that hes going to his friends that evening to help get the bbq ready for tomorrow (the one he had cancelled with me).
I saod oh,so there is a bbq? Thats nice.
He knew i was annoyed and made an excuse to come over and pick something up he had left here,and asked me what was wrong.I explained i didnt like being a plan B and he had messed up plans with me thoughtlessly only to rearrange and cut me out.He then said he didnt want a relationship,he liked things as they were (as if we were having two different conversations).I said ok,im not prepared tp be a casual thing (he knew from day 1 this is not what im looking for) nor a back up plan.He left and text me later saying sorry,he hated making plans as they always got messed up,and again said hee didnt want a relationship yet he liked things as they were-all the comforfs of a g.f without the comitment,basically.
I relied that he couldnt have his cake and eat it because i value myself,and i liked to be treated as i treat people.I told him i am not looking for a casual relationship which he knew,but if he wants that good luck.
I heard nothing for the whole weekend....he was with his mates so i assume he didnt think of the situation much.Monday when his mates had gone back home and he was alone he appologised,saying i was right,he had acted poorly,he shouldnt of done-lots of appologising.He then says this is why he doesnt want to rush a relationship as he messes up and gets hurt.He said he was scared of that happening and that is why he tries not to get attached or too involved,hes sorry he messed me around.
That was three days ago,i havent replied because im so hurt and confused.I dont know if he means thats the end of it,or if its just explaining he was wrong.He 100% did everything a guy could do to make me think he was serious about me,he persued me and initiated everything,and the way he was with me-being intimate,cuddles,etc i had the impression he had real feelings for me,never has a man been so gentle and caring in that way with me.
Now i dont know what to think or do i just feel hurt.
I would appreciate any insight or advice offered as i really like thks guy but dont want to be strung along x

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 8, 7:25 PM,
The advice you seek is right here in this article :-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks this is what i'm doing.I figure if he cares at all he will step up,and put it right.Otherwise he can step away.
Its hard when doing the best thing for yourself hurts but it pays off long term!
Again,thanks for the article they should make this sort of stuff part of girls education at school or something x

Anonymous said...

@ MOA;
I am recently going through a breakup, and the last two weeks have been absolute hell for me. This has been my first relationship since I ended a 2 year engagement with a man who stole lots of money from my family's business. Anyway, my now previous ex, broke up with me out of the blue. I was devastated because things felt so different with him. He made me very happy, and he claimed the same. However, there were always assumptions made on both sides. I felt like I was never given a chance because I was compared to his previous ex ( who wasn;t even old enough to drink legally, and who he was going to marry but she got cold feet, etc). He broke up with me in a fit of rage. He finally told me the other day, after failed NC, that it was because I am a social drinker who had one bad experience back when we first started dating in January, am pessimistic about myself at times ( but he said it could have been timing since I just finished grad school, and thesis completion is not fun!!), and that he needed space. The funny thing is, I mirrored his actions. IF he texted, I texted, if he called, I called. I let him initiate pretty much everything. But yet I was called the clingy one. He said he didn't feel that he needed to tell me if he was going to be late to get me when we had a date, etc. He said he would assume I was always upset or annoyed with him which was never the case. Do you think he is just immature, mentally? I am accepting now of the fact that if I never see him again, it's okay. But I can't help but think that I was never given the chance. Is it wrong to think that if he would have told me sooner than later that he did't like my behavior, we could have worked it out? I know I have some insecurity/ self esteem issues that need to be re-addressed. ( I am starting therapy again, so yay)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 10, 11:03 AM,
"He said he didn't feel that he needed to tell me if he was going to be late to get me when we had a date, etc."

That's rude and ignorant and it speaks to his selfish character. That's a simple consideration that you'd give to anyone you've made plans with. And if he feels he doesn't even have to do that very small, considerate thing for you - then he's not a man that would make for a good boyfriend, lover or husband. He's a selfish man.

"Do you think he is just immature, mentally?"

Yes, very much so.

"Is it wrong to think that if he would have told me sooner than later that he did't like my behavior, we could have worked it out?"

Yes, it is wrong dear. Because the reality is that with a man like this, nothing you would've done would've changed anything. He's selfish and inconsiderate and that would not have changed, no matter what you did.

Because YOU are not the one who NEEDED to change. HE is the one who needs to change. His attitude is very selfish and very negative and very self centered. No matter who he dates, with that attitude, he's always going to have "woman problems."

"He finally told me the other day, after failed NC, that it was because I am a social drinker who had one bad experience back when we first started dating in January, am pessimistic about myself at times ( but he said it could have been timing since I just finished grad school, and thesis completion is not fun!!), and that he needed space."

That may be true, however, it appears that it's HIS ACTIONS (selfishness) that are causing your reaction of feeling pessimistic about yourself.

And one bad drinking experience really isn't a very good excuse here because if we were all judged as a whole, based on one minor infraction - none of us would be considered "good enough."

We are all only human, and thus flawed. If we were perfect, we'd all be Gods, not humans ;-)

Reasie said...

Hello,

I'm so grateful I found your blog. I'm in so much pain right now.

But please HELP! I'm in love with a man who is breaking my heart. He is an extremely successful A list music producer/television composer who I have been dating off and on since April of last year. I love this man. He is divorced with 4 children and he's a great father.

I feel last on his list of priorities. He travels a lot for work and his sons basketball career. He has always said we are exclusive and recently in the last 3 months he has told me he loves me.

But his communication has been a constant fight for us and he hasn't introduced me to his family. He's very demanding and expects me to be available to him on his time and his schedule. Which I've accepted because of who he is and the line of work he's in but I'm tired of it. Im exhausted and a few days ago I broke it off with him because I want more then this. And yes I've chased him, called him a million times and went crazy when he didn't respond. Or I get the "I'm busy in the studio" text.

I didn't see him for a month because he was traveling for work and when he got home I spent the night with him. I asked him if he saw a future with me and he said yes he loved me. But when asked him for a committment he said he thinks he does want one and he would spend some real time with me that weekend. It didn't happen. That was my last straw. I ended things and then of course he calls me. I didn't answer. I did text him back and I just don't know to get him to make a real committment.

I need more then dinner and sex! He's addicted to me sexually. He's admitted to me I'm the best he's ever had and that's why he hasn't been able to leave me alone. Because we fight a lot about him spending more time with me and moving our relationship forward. We fought for 4 hours straight once. He says I complain too much. He has paid my rent and done things for me financially but I need way more then that. I just don't know how to get the upper hand.

I mean how can he love me and be so absent in my life? His eyes have even watered up when I was emotional one day and he told me he loved and didn't want to hurt me. But I'm hurt all the time. I know he has a million things on his plate. I mean his phone rings constantly, he's an Executive music producer and he's often exhausted and falls asleep at the red light. But he takes care of hs kids ex wife, mom, aunts and blah blah but what about me.

My approach is all wrong. I've become a whiny, nagging, complaining, crying, depressed, desperate woman. I'm very attractive, smart, talented but I don't feel good about me at all right now.

Is there any hope for me. I made it once for 2 weeks no contact. When he actually begged me to give him another chance and I just gave in. He was doing better for a short time but I didn't keep my boundaries and he went right back to his neglectful behavior.

I'm scared to loose him because he's been a safety net for me being he's the only one I have in Cali but I'm miserable. I love him but I don't feel loved. Do I really ignore him for a whole month? I broke it off with him only because I know how unhealthy this relationship is for me but I don't think he takes me seriously. Deep down I'm scared to never see him again.

His sun is in Taurus, moon is in Cancer, mercury is in Taurus, and Venus in Taurus.

My sun is in Capricorn, my moon is in Capricorn, my mercury is in Capricorn and my Venus is in Saggitarius.

I'm 32 and he's 39. Thank you

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Reasie,
"He's very demanding and expects me to be available to him on his time and his schedule."

Not a good sign dear - a control freak and someone unwilling to compromise.

"Which I've accepted because of who he is"

Doesn't matter your reasons for choosing to settle for less than you deserve - bottom line is - you're settling and you shouldn't be. If you settle for less than you deserve, then you can't question why you're not getting what you deserve from the situation.

"I just don't know to get him to make a real commitment."

You can't make a man want to be with you dear. He either wants to or he doesn't. If he's undecided - then that's a "no." :-(

You cannot control other people - you can only control your reaction to them.

"I need more then dinner and sex!"

Then why have you settled for less?

"He's admitted to me I'm the best he's ever had and that's why he hasn't been able to leave me alone."

That's not flattering - to admit that the only thing he likes about you is sex.

"but I need way more then that."

Again, why then are you settling for less? You've signaled to him that you're willing to settle for less - but then you turn around and demand more. Can't do that dear.

"I just don't know how to get the upper hand."

The answer is right here in this article.

"I mean how can he love me and be so absent in my life?"

I don't think anyone that's in love with another human being would want to be absent from their life. You need to consider that this man may be feeding you lines and telling you what he thinks you want to hear so that he can continue to receive sex from you.

"I don't feel good about me at all right now."

That's because you've compromised yourself and settled here. Don't do that dear, there are consequences for that and you're experiencing them right now, unfortunately :-(

"I didn't keep my boundaries and he went right back to his neglectful behavior."

Of course he did dear. When you signal to a man that you're willing to expand your boundaries for him - if you give him an inch, he's going to take a mile. It's human nature.

"Do I really ignore him for a whole month?"

You have two options: 1) Continue to give in to him and settle and be miserable or 2) stand up for yourself, brush yourself off and move on and find a man that has more time for you and one that is willing to make you a priority.

"I don't think he takes me seriously."

He doesn't take you seriously because you don't even take yourself seriously dear. By that, I mean, you don't even take your own boundaries seriously (you waiver on them back and forth) - so how can you expect him to that them seriously?

"Deep down I'm scared to never see him again."

Why? What's going to happen? Is the earth going to crack in half? Is the sky going to fall? I doubt it. The worst thing that can happen is that you grieve the loss for a month or so and then the sun shines and you're happy again. That's the worst that can happen.

If you continue to let your fear steer the wheel here - then you're going to continue to live in fear.

The choice is yours - and if I were you, I'd choose freedom, liberation, independence and happiness over fear any day :-)

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror,

I have an acquaintance who lives far away and whom I met only twice in person. We had a period of intense correspondence right after we've met for the first time but later our contacts dwindled and I made peace with thought of never hearing or seeing him again. Recently he shocked me with his (virtual) reappearance and suggested meeting me. There were some sexual innuendos in his message which offended me, but I did not react to them. My reply to him was somewhat unclear and discouraging toward his suggestion of meeting. But I am an emotional person and once I felt very lonely and sent him a message implying that I have some sort of connection with him. He has not replied. Now I am afraid he sees me as a nutcase due to my vagueness and because I showed him I want to be emotionally close even after such a long time without any contact with him. This sucks. But since he is not replying I have no means of showing that I made a mistake in a moment of weakness. Sending a message explaining this is also a no-no because he is not communicating with me. This is eating me up. Or, I could write to him and then apply no contact?
Thanks for you reply.

Anonymous said...

Me and a guy who were almost on the verge of dating had a falling out because I noticed he was spending so much time with his two other friends and not me. He kept saying he wanted to get to know me and that we connected and blah blah. But he did text almost everyday but his texts were so negative about being stressed, tired, and etc. He has a health issue, works, and goes to school part time online. He'd always ignore my requests to hang out or claim he was so busy. I understood his health came first but it was definitely a cover-up in my opinion. Two nights in a row he went straight to the bar after work to hang out with his best friend (yes both nights), he went to a movie premiere with his roommate, he went to two concerts, hiking with best friend, etc.

I hadn't hung out with him in an entire MONTH. So I was like what the hell is going on? He immediately got defensive and told me I needed to understand his health issues, school and work are his priority. Then he gave me some bullshit about it was an argument that NEEDED to be discussed in person? In person? Can't you pick up the damn phone.

Needless to say, I asked when we could meet up and talk about this he said it would be after a week or so. So I through out a date that was a month away and said how about then? I mean it always seems like you treat me like an appointment. He said I was selfish. Then I got really upset and used cursed words and he told me to just leave him alone and that he absolutely wanted nothing to do with me. Keep in mind, the few times we did meet up, everything revolved around his schedule. That was my mistake...I made myself to available to him.

Needless to say that happened at the beginning of April. He kept ignoring my messages after that because I was genuinely concerned. I sent 3 texts and an email over the course of April. None of them were angry though. I figured I'd give him a little space, but no response. He was a sweet guy, but didn't expect him to just cut me off like THAT.

Anywho, if he tries to get in contact with me, should I just flat out ignore him? I would like to talk to him because he is a very sweet, but manipulated and brainwashed by his roommate (who is almost twenty years older than him). Hell there may have even been another date.

I know it's hard to handle if questions, but I know he'll probably be getting in contact with me by the end of June. (Oh yeah..he blocked me on facebook too). I'm a clairvoyant/tarot reader, but I can only pick up certain information. Two other psychics and myself got dates for the end of June. So there is a big CHANCE, he'll be back.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
"He'd always ignore my requests to hang out"

"I was like what the hell is going on?"

"I asked when we could meet up and talk'

"I through out a date that was a month away"

"He kept ignoring my messages"

"I sent 3 texts and an email"

A woman should NEVER pursue a man dear - EVER. When a woman pursues a man, she exhibits masculine energy (leading). Men are not attracted to masculine energy, they are attracted to feminine (submissive) energy. Additionally, men are competitive by nature and enjoy the challenge and the chase. When a woman pursues a man, she removes the competition, the challenge and the chase - she removes all of the fun for the man. She gives away all of her power and reassures the man that she's sitting there, waiting and anxious. Not a good impression to give to a man sweetie as it's interpreted by men as desperate.

The only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested or not is to see if HE pursues HER. If the woman is pursuing a man, she'll never know if he's genuinely interested or not. This piece was written by a man:

http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2011/09/dont-initiate-contact.html

As well, all of this man's actions are indicating that he isn't interested :-( When a man is interested, he contacts the woman, he asks her on dates, he pays attention to her, makes time for her, etc. He is doing none of the above, so asking him what's going on isn't even necessary as his actions are indicating exactly what's going on.

If it were me, I would probably not speak to this man again. And I certainly would not jump on his first few phone call attempts even if I did decide I MIGHT want to speak to him again.

I would not make a man that's treating me like an option a priority of mine.

Anonymous said...

I think you're absolutely right about me being too aggressive. I don't usually give people second chances, but I don't know anymore. How do you know when someone is worth it? I can only go by how things look now. But who knows what the future holds. I'll keep my mind open to all possibilities.
I'm not making excuses for him, but I just think he's in a place in his life where he can't even give HIMSELF the type of love I could give him. I think what makes things worse is he has a health issue and so that REALLY threw me into overdrive to see if he was okay. But you know, some people will fall down and get a scratch but act as if they fell down and lost BOTH of their legs. He never really talked about the "status" of his particular health problem (nothing sexually related lol) But he claims that it made him tired and stressed. But like I said, I should've known what the deal was.
BUT WITH DATING IN GENERAL, I tend to FIRST look at how a man treats himself. If he isn't responsible in his own life, runs away from problems, doesn't communicate with most people and isn't committed to HIMSELF (due to lack of self-esteem), then there is NO WAY I can expect him to be responsible in a relationship, face and address any problems we may have through communication, or even be committed to me.

So guess what? I placed expectations on him that I should never have done because he already showed me who he was. And I *chose* to turn my head the other way. I made myself too available and tried to FORCE him to communicate on my terms by continuing to chase and bring up issues. Remember, I allowed everything to revolve around his time and terms. I DID give my power away by chasing. And I also notice this is not always a man versus woman situation. For example, many people believe men like their space and don't like to communicate. FALSE. I know lots of clingy men (they need attention, closeness, etc.) with SOME communication skills (maybe not the best). I know some who women are very needy in terms of their space (or they'll turn into raging bitches) and they hate speaking about certain issues--maybe that's what you call selective communication problems?

I do low-key think some men like the power-trip from being chased, but many of those men have low-self esteem and need an ego booster and keep a bunch of "options" around. The rest of those men are just...a little too arrogant for my taste.
But he did come running to me with a lot of his problems, even though I was an option. He even told me I was one of the only spiritual people he had in his life and he felt like he could talk to me about things he couldn't do with other people. SOUNDS FLATTERING HUH? Nahhh! I'm just one cereal box in the cabinet out of several. I just happened to be the only sugar-free one. So guess what? When it may be convenient to eat sugar-free cereal, it's my turn to get pulled out of the kitchen cabinet. YAYYYY!! (Yeah fucking right....lol) But at the end of day, I made myself too available (as always) and of course, he DOES have low-self esteem.

How does making myself too available show up in my life? With PEOPLE, I'm ALWAYS trying to be there for someone. I want to be the shoulder to cry on and blah blah blah. I usually get upset when those people can't deliver the same on their end. But it was MY expectation of them that hurt me. I should have known those people would be emotionally unavailable (which they were) when it came to helping me because it was evident in their actions all the time.

This sounds like I am beating myself up. I'm not. I'm taking responsibility for my part of the problem. He's a grown man and needs to WORK or ATTEMPT to compromise with people, so I'll be damn if I continue to keep chasing him or ANY man from now on. I can't fix him.


Anonymous said...

Now with that being said, I can't say I would totally ignore him or give him the cold-very short treatment. Many people don't change overnight, but some people do get hit with reality when certain actions are done to them (like being ignored, cut off or treated coldly).

Trust me. I'm not letting him off at that easy. He isn't a victim and he SHOULD get his feelings hurt. If the event comes up, I guess I'll make a choice but until then I need to focus on the things I can control.

My post sounds a little preachy, but I just have a problem with the forgiving part. I mean I can forgive, but with second chances I don't know how to let people in without giving them a free pass or even prove themselves.

In all honesty, I can have a huge temper and a part of me wants to let him know he made me feel. But they say that it isn't the way to approach the situation. The vengeful part of me wants to be nice and just let him start to complain again and then ignore the shit out of him in the MIDDLE of his depression rant. That's cold LOL. But that would be could because I know how depressed he can get. But still, he's a man and knows he shouldn't manipulate others and then try to play victim.
Am I hurt? Goddamn right. Am I shocked or surprised? No.
Objectivity and Expectations can save you A LOT of heartache and pain.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 20, 8:08 PM,
"How do you know when someone is worth it?"

When they PROVE that they are worth it. And a man proves that he is worth is by:

1) Pursuing you
2) Asking you out on dates
3) Initiating regular communication with you
4) Treating you special
5) Making time for you

"I can only go by how things look now."

You don't base your conclusions on how things "look" - you base your conclusions on how things "are" - the reality. And if the reality is NOT the 5 items I've listed above, then that's the conclusion.

"I just think he's in a place in his life where he can't even give HIMSELF the type of love I could give him."

That may be so but the question you need to ask yourself is - does he WANT your love? Is HE asking for YOUR love? If the answer is no, then you don't give something to someone that they're not asking for.

"maybe that's what you call selective communication problems?"

Well, the reality is that those people you refer to that have heavy "NEEDS" - are insecure - and they are acting on that insecurity by OVERCOMPENSATING for it in their behavior.

Individuals that are confident and secure with themselves do not have those types of heavy "needs" - they are whole. And as a result, they feel no "need" to fill a void. Individuals that are not whole, feel a heavy "need."

Individuals that are whole, confident and well-balanced emotionally will "like their space and don't like to (overly) communicate." Individuals that are not whole, that are insecure and are not emotionally well-balanced will overcompensate for the void they feel (not whole) by dumping heavy "needs" into their lap.

And they dump heavy "needs" into the other individuals lap because they expect that other individual to fulfill them (make them whole).

"I do think some men like the power-trip from being chased"

Yes, insecure men that need the ego boost (not whole) will "need" to be chased.

"part of me wants to be nice and just let him start to complain again and then ignore the shit out of him in the MIDDLE of his depression rant. That's cold LOL."

No dear, that's how people learn from their mistakes. If it didn't hurt, the lesson would not be learned. When a child misbehaves and a parent takes the child's favorite toy from them, sure it may seem cold or mean at first, because the child reacts negatively to this. However, a responsible parent knows that this is what's BEST for the child. The child will experience this negativity over the consequences of their actions and as a result - the child WILL NEVER WANT TO EXPERIENCE THOSE FEELINGS AGAIN and therefore, will not misbehave again.

That's how you set boundaries, learn lessons in life and experience change and self-growth. If there were no consequences to be experienced, the change would not take place and the misbehavior would be repeated, which would ultimately hurt the child later on in life when they can't hold a job because of their actions or they cannot form healthy relationships because of their actions, etc.

And as humans, if we do NOT set boundaries with others - they they have no line to cross. It's a free-for-all where anything goes and all goes unpunished and without consequence - it's anarchy and chaos. Which is the very reason we have laws in society - those laws act as boundaries, lines that are crossed. And when the lines are crossed, there are consequences. If we did not have laws in society - we would have chaos and anarchy.

And the same goes for your personal life. Laws and boundaries are necessary - if you do not set them, you end up with chaos and anarchy.

Once you learn to set boundaries in your life dear - the confusion and chaos will cease. You may not always win the battle, but you WILL protect and defend yourself when on the battlefield ;-)

Gemini 50 said...

@ Ms. Mirror,
I needed this message today.
Thank you!

Anonymous said...

You are either a priority or an option and that goes for friendship family or any relationship ... one should never be emotionally abused or any other abuse ... there is no excuse for it
if one would respect and love their friend or family etc. there wouldn't be this kind of behaviour ... please pass this link or site to everyone you know so more people can be educated by it ... we shouldn't have to be victims ... we are human we make mistakes but we need to learn from it

Anonymous said...

I had the privilege of putting this concept in action this weekend and man did I come out feeling great! He offered a relationship then rhe next day broke it off. Offered to talk. I agreed with wanting to talk. He said he would let me know when he's home (he's my neighbor) and I didn't hear from him for 3 days.

heard from him today and I gently reminded him in a matter of fact way regarding his decision by saying I understand and accept his decision. He basically tried to give excuses as to why he never followed through with the talk he offered.

I don't need to debrief anymore. His actions spoke loud and clear and let me tell you. Just as the article states, I'm full of strength and know I handled this with class and funny enough, I don't even feel like the one broken up with. Ha!

This works ladies. Not games at all but a mindset of letting them live with the decision they made. If he comes back, he will have to come correct :)

Thanks girl for empowering us women!

Lady Leo said...

I've this article before but had to come back to it to share how spot on accurate it is. I am the woman who was wishy-washy, non-committal and had this done to me. And it worked in HIS favor, true to each word Aphrodite wrote.

I adore this man but fear ruled me. So when I couldn't be consistent and committed, he broke up with me. He went silent. I immediately felt the loss, within days, and began the campaign to get him back. Love song, heartfelt letter, followed up by a "can we talk" phone call. We met and talked but he still cant trust me. So, he won't reconcile. I did my level best and now it's time for me to go no contact. I put my hand of love out to him, he has rejected it and I know he cares for me deeply. He just needs to feel what I felt..the loss.

It was a lesson in true humility for me, his silence. I hope it will be the same for him. In the end, we will treat each other with well needed self-respect.

Anonymous said...

Just a follow up:

I'm the anonymous above July 8th.

He came back around a week later, apologized for his behavior, and I'm giving him another chance.

Oh and by the way, he lives next door to me and while he was being an ass...I kept on dating. Actually, he saw me when I was walking out of the house headed to a date and he mentioned how amazing I looked and that he was jealous. ;)

Yea this works...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous,
I can't say it enough dear - confidence, strength and a strong knowledge of your self-worth and value are all factors that create "attraction" ;-)

And now that you know you're worth - don't sacrifice it for anything - stand strong.

Lady Leo said...

@July 8...

Very happy for you. Just goes to show "We teach the world how to treat us". You taught him you can move on and be happy without him. Congrats!

Anonymous said...

Mini-update:
Libra Guy actually took down his profile last week! It's a little odd that he seems to go back on every few months, then sticks around for 1-2 months then takes it down again.

Perhaps it was all for attention, and once he got his fix, he went back to his gf. Thank you for your constant reminder to be glad I'm not her..(although I do wonder how she can be so blissfully happy?).

Anyways, I have a question for you Mirror... and wanted to know if you think this guy is even worth responding:

I talked to a 31 year old Gemini last year for a couple of weeks on POF and he asked me out to hiking, but I declined at the time because I was so out of shape. I think I suggested an alternative. He never replied after that so I figured he wanted a partner who was as active as he was.

Surprisingly (or maybe not), I heard from him again today... a YEAR later! But it kind of pisses me off that he wrote, "Are you back on again or did you never leave in the first place? lol"

Do you think it's better to IGNORE him (as a consequence for disappearing), or should I tell him that he had his chance but he never followed up?

If I don't tell him, he may assume I'm uninterested but he won't know the reason was based on HIS actions.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivan,
You know, in a situation like that, I think instead I might be inclined to write back a simple, "I'm back" - nothing more, two words, and then never respond again if he bites on that ;-)

Because if you initially assume he's contacting you for another chance, he may "play" with that and/or correct you or insult you. So instead, assume he's just being friendly right now - and don't be receptive to it.

The two word response will throw him, he's expecting an emotional display, plea or communication and he's expecting you to be happy to hear from him. Instead, be like, "I'm back" - and then move on. And say you're back so that he thinks you left at one point for someone. But only say those two words and let HIM wonder what the hell is going on, LOL.

Anonymous said...

LOL, mirror you come up with the BEST responses ever!! I sent the "I'm back" message on Friday. I don't think he'll respond, but sending a 2 word message was just too much fun! Thank you so much for the advice.

Btw, I read some of the comments in this article today:
http://www.howaboutwe.com/date-report/6-reasons-you-should-ask-him-out/#

Margherite wrote, "My guy friends who are 40+ admit that their "chase" reflects the value they assign to the woman. If the woman vigorously pursues, the man *does* eventually doubt the "worth" of the woman."

Before that, Luke wrote, "I can see that happening more in an older generation. But for everyone reading and speaking for the "under 40" crowd. Things are a lot more open minded then you might think."

Do you agree? Are the new generation of guys more "open-minded" and do respect a woman who asks them out?

I came across this profile of a 26 year old entrepreneur..and in his profile, he also mentioned being "open-minded" and wanting women to tell him straight up if they wanted to have sex with him because he's oblivious to hints.

I could not stop thinking, "How feminine and lazy can these guys get? Getting a women to ASK them for sex? WHAT PLANET ARE THEY ON?"

But I haven't dated anyone under 30, so perhaps it is different and those who are in the younger generation aren't necessarily lazy; they're just..open-minded.

- Vivian

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Vivian,
No, I disagree. Poor Luke, LOL. I see lots of guys like him, particularly the "millennial" generation - they think they're these really hip movers and shakers and that they're so different from previous generations having grown up in the technological era.

But the reality is, deep down inside, we're all human, we're all wired the same, we're all coded in our DNA the same. Guys like Luke are naive. His perception is that he's hip and open minded and that he holds respect for women who chase him. But I bet you if you actually sat old Luke down, he couldn't name one woman who chased him that he spent more than a month or two with, LOL. Hence the creation of the "hookup culture."

Guys like Luke created the modern day hookup culture, then they turn around and claim that they are open minded and respect women who pursue them. Well, if that were true, we'd be living in a culture that promotes healthy committed relationships - but instead, we're living in a culture that currently promotes hooking up for a night here and there - treats each other like shit - and then flat out disappears without a word - and he claims that's an atmosphere of openmindedness and respect.

It's flat out laughable, LOL. And the problem is, that younger generation - they don't perceive themselves properly. And the reason for that is - their faces are buried in technology and the virtual world 24/7. All of their socializing takes place their, their networking, lots of their dating behavior takes place there. . .basically their living in a virtual world and they are unable to perceive the difference between it and the real world. It's causing skewed perceptions to run rampant and that generation does not see/know the damage their doing and they don't realize that what they think about themselves - is NOT what the rest of the world sees. And that their hookup culture in and of itself is downright disrespectful to women. I mean think about it, how can a man respect a woman - who acts desperate for male attention, regardless of age? Desperation on anyone, male or female, is unattractive.

I don't think they're different at all. Truthfully, I think they're worse, and are lacking morals, ethics, respect for one another - and are suffering from skewed perception, unable to tell the difference between the virtual world and the real one and unable to view themselves in an honest light.

Anonymous said...

This is a great post. It just annoys me that a lot of men do what is given in this example in the first place, with the man saying his mom has been sick. It's common sense that if you make plans and can't make it for some reason, you cancel ahead of time, not after the fact. And I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he does with is friends-- cancels ahead of time so why doesn't he start off treating a woman he wants to date with the same respect?

Why do so many men do these things when they know right from wrong? Why do they use this "oh it's all up to women to 'teach' us to behave correctly" card if they know it's wrong? The same thing happened to me recently. Some guy and I agreed to meet this past Friday, he called me the week before, texted the weekend after after, Disappeared after that. Last Friday came and went, no word from him. (I had forgotten about him before that) Today he sends a text apologizing that he's been busy at work and was wondering if I'd still be up for getting a drink some time before I go on vacation. Besides the fact he has the nerve to ask me this, he didn't ask for drinks before, he suggested dinner at an Asian restaurant. I'm not replying to his message, good riddance.

-Lioness of the Sun

Anonymous said...

"I appreciate your honesty and I don´t blame you because of the way I felt about what you told me, and I felt that I needed to be honest too, even when I know that we are not exclusive."

"Regretfully, she played her cards there. She admitted that the news upset her to an extent. And this is where men pull stunts to reassure themselves that a woman likes them - via her reaction. And by addressing this news and sharing her feelings with him on it, she just reassured him that she cares for him."

Well that's a way of weeding him out. Based on my experiences, if that man really cared for HER, her feelings wouldn't have "scared" him or just reassured him that she liked him to the point where he didn't have to try anymore. he would be trying harder to set things right with her. The fact that it pushed him away shows that he was the wrong man. Emotionally available masculine men who want to commit are attracted to vulnerability in a woman, it brings out their masculine protective side and is part of what forms the emotional connection.
However in this situatio, I can see how it may have been o early to show that since they weren't exclusive.

~Lioness of the Sun

Anonymous said...

I love ur posts n learn from dem. I had a relationship with dis guy six yrs ago, it was a gud relationship. I broke d relationship cos it was never exclusive. We got back in contact thru facebk n we've been communicating since april over bbm and sometimes calls cos its a long distance relationship(hes in africa n im in d US). Initialy he said he dint want to be in a LDR n bcos of what i did before hes not ready to have a relationship me. I left him alone n dint pressure him buh we still chat as friends. Few weeks later he started sending msg dat he misses me n all so we took d relationship 2 a bit deeper level, we sometimes talk abt how we'll eventually be together. Den he got a job n stopped communication as he used to, his excuse is always d job n again he apologises a lot. He responds to my texts n calls n he calls back wen he sees my missed calls. I dont call dat often, only when i have important things to say. A week ago i called him to ask about some medications he sent 2 me cos i was feeling ill. During our discussion he said he had to start work n will call back later to check on me. He dint call for d next 5 days or even send a bbm msg. Buh he changed his display pix to his friends 2ce during those five days wshing dem HBD. Dat got me so mad dat i deleted him from my blackberry. He called a week after he said he was going to call maybe cos he realised i deleted him from my bb. I dint pick his calls for 3 consecutive days.on d 3rd day i sent him a msg dat im now pissed @ his attitudes towards me n dat i value myself very much n i feel a man im going to with shld value n respect me n that 'im sorry dis dosent seem 2 be working for us'. Since then ive not heard from him n dat was 3days ago. Did i handle dis right? Cos i do want him back n i dont know what hes tinking or if he'll come back with a better perception of me.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Sep 19, 11:18 PM,
Yes, walking away from a man that is disrespecting you is the right thing to do.

"Cos i do want him back"

But now, you need to ask yourself, why do you want to be with a man that treats you poorly as an option, rather than a priority? What is so attractive about that that you want it back in your life?

You can't change him, you can't control him, he is who he is. And there is no guarantee he'll come back, and if he doesn't, then that tells you something and you should "hear" that and proceed according (walk away).

This man isn't able to make you happy dear. He's not making you a priority, he's already told you he doesn't want a relationship with you and, as a result of that, you cannot expect "relationship" type behavior from him towards you.

Instead of hoping he'll change, try to accept what he's "saying" here via his actions. And what he's already said is that he doesn't want a relationship right now and his actions are falling in line with that.

As a result, I'd suggest you place him on the back burner and instead, free yourself up to seek out a man that will treat you like a priority and that IS READY for a relationship.

Anonymous said...

Thank u so much MOA, i think i get it now. I guess i thut he was still the guy dat i had an affair with 6yrs ago. N i also felt he is holding back now cos i broke up with him d first time, i will do d same if it he did dat to me. I guess i just needed someone else perspective on the whole thing.

Anonymous said...

I have known a guy (Taurus) for about 2 years - initially saw him about once a month. He really liked me and made that known but I was in a relationship of sorts so didn't pursue one with him at the time. About 3 months ago I was available and decided to take the next step with him and told him we could start dating. We spend a lot of time together and it was great. However, he was getting on dating sites (that I was on) and talking to other people and I told him that he is an adult and can do what he wants but we will only be friends as long as he is talking to other people. He acted like that is not what he wanted but continued to see me and get on the site. Then he talked with one of my friends on the site (unknowingly) and made plans to get together. My friend told me and I called him on it. He replied via text to me saying that since I had been on the dating site a couple of times that he had lost trust in me a while ago.
That has been about a week ago and we haven't talked since. I sent him a text last Friday to see if he wanted to do something but he did not respond. I have since invoked the 'no contact rule' and not sure what to do at this point.
I am CancerCuspGemini and know we can be emotionally attached but this is hard!
Any advice is appreciated.

pisces girl said...


A man proves that he is worth is by:

1) Pursuing you
2) Asking you out on dates
3) Initiating regular communication with you
4) Treating you special
5) Making time for you

some are so skilled at pretending to be gentleman and they will do all of the above in an effort to try and prove to you that you should let them in but they do it for all the WRONG reasons. Its not because they really like you and want to get to know you better its because they have alterior motives so women BEWARE! a lot of 'men' are users and con artists and play on a woman's emotions in hopes that they will get something out of it ie. money, sex, a place to stay, an ego boost and sometimes its just a lot of little things that all add up. That's why I think its so important to not give a man anything more than your willing to lose until he's really proved himself and I guess only time will tell

Anonymous said...

I have been loving these articles, thank you! I would love some advice.
I met an incredibly attractive man that I felt a real connection with this summer through a mutual friend. We definitely hit it off and had amazing conversation. He pursued me for a month, we hung out in a group with mutual friends at the beach a lot or out to dinners. He finally asked me out and we had a fun night dancing where we kissed. He did try to take me home that first night alone which I of course turned down. After that he was super old fashioned with me. He took me out on one romantic date where we were out all night just talking. We did kiss at the end of the night a lot. It really took everything in me not to allow myself to do more with him. We did go out for an early casual dinnner before he went on a vaction with his boys and picked the destinations I took with my girls a couple of months before. I pretty much sent him off on his vacation with an itinierary of places to go and places to eat. He was in contact with me everyday from another country and even called me. Then when he got back he was distant. Texting me here and there but never actually making plans. I finally called him and he was super happy to hear from me and we got together the next day. Then we made plans for a Friday but he cancelled because he was sick. Then it was more back and forth with texts but after another week I finally called him and called him out on his behavior. He told me about all of work stuff going on and him moving blah blah blah and then finally tells me his ex is back in his life. That they were broken up for 2 yrs and he cut her off but she was persistent in contacting him and he has been talking to her recently and he was confused. So we get into a long conversation about exes and i share my experience with him and we laugh and kick it like we always do when we talk. He then asks if I still want to hang out. I tell him that I would be niave to think we could just hang out as friends and with his ex back in his life that sounded messy so good luck with that. I definitely felt empowered after that conversation because I got to the bottom of his dismissive behavior and still had him asking me to hang out but now it's obviously all about no contact. I have other dates lined up and I'm super busy in my life so that's not a problem. I just find myself thinking about him and hoping things don't pan out with his ex as I suspsect and that he will come back around. Do you think the no contact rule will work in this scenario? Also, does this guy even sound worth it?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct. 10, 10:36AM,
"Do you think the no contact rule will work in this scenario?"

It always works dear - but maybe not with the outcome you had hoped. Meaning, it'll always work to help you detach, heal, stand strong and move forward. But is it a guarantee to bring a man back? No, nothing in life is a guarantee.

"does this guy even sound worth it?"

Honestly, I don't think so. And the reason I say that isn't because he's not a good man, it's because of his circumstances, his apparent connection to his ex and the time it takes to truly recover from those things.

This would be an uphill battle that is not guaranteed to have a positive outcome and it's also one that you could get tangled up and hurt in. But let me explain that.

You would be fighting against:

1) His latent existing feelings for his ex
2) Their history together
3) The competition involved in that
4) The fact that he could swing back and forth emotionally between you and her for months, thus causing you to get hurt if he changes his mind or finds himself indecisive and torn on the matter

It's already been two years and here he is - circling back to her. Do you want to invest two years here, only to find that he circles back to her again? Or find that every 3-4 months, he's confused and circling back? Or find yourself in competition with a very persistent woman that has history that's hard to compete with, with this man? Or find yourself being stymied at every turn by this other woman who may attempt to undermine what you're attempting to build with him?

Get what I'm saying here?

Unless you're absolutely crazy about this man and find him worth fighting for, worth risking and worth the time investment and ups and downs that could accompany this for a length period of time. . .I'd say pass on this one dear. Let him go and cut contact. Remove yourself from his situation and let him and her have a go at this without your involvement. If he finds that the situation dissolves yet again, he can always return to you and you can always revisit this at a later date and time. But to get caught up in it with him - really isn't a wise choice for yourself as you would be denying yourself happiness in the meantime, and dealing with tons of potential drama instead.

Anonymous said...

@ Mirror

Thank you for your reply. I 100% agree with what you are saying and was planning on stepping aside completely to let him and his ex have a go at it without my involvement. I'm wise enough to know that is recipe for disaster and for me to get hurt which is why I told him I don't want to hang out with him. I guess I was just curious if it sounded like he would come back around on his own. There's no way of knowing that for sure like you said though..only time will tell. In the meantime I am moving forward and getting set up with new men through friends and putting myself out there. One thing is for sure, this guy at least got me to stop thinking about my ex! So there's the blessing in this scenario;)

Anonymous said...

My ex has been out of me and my children's lives for 5mths now. Only my youngest biologically his but he treats them as if they are his flesh n blood and I the same with his. We were together for 4 years. He cooked for us rubbed my feet loved going to the movies we always laughed and Cuddled. He is a great father to his children and has strong family morals. Spoke of marriage. Our connection seemed to be strong so much so his mom commented on how happy he is a d how she hadn't seen him like that in a long time. He left me for the motivation of another woman and denied denied denied until I confronted him with facts. Hes says she's just a friend yeah rigbt. I just started LC with him and treated him of less importance. He then starts writing me with how much he misses me and how I'm in his thoughts. He sends pics of himself often and still stays in touch with my children and of course his son. He says he still owes me a poem and is always wishing I'm doing well or aski g how i am. So I told him maybe one day you will tell me what your thinking and he says maybe winky face but he just acts distant. He is on the east coast and I the west his lady friend stays in another state as well he has a huge distance between us both be says he no longer talks to her but I dont know what to believe. You say actions speaks louder than words but... he called and said not to worry about my bills he'd take care of them. He comme ts positively kn my facebook posts likes them. But why? I dont want to bring up emotions and he avoids them as well i feel like he may be trying to string me along. He is very prideful with shame of admittance when hes wrong but i cant read minds. I keep him distant just as he keeps me but I'm over the guessing game so I just went back to no contact.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous October 21, 9:54AM,
"he called and said not to worry about my bills he'd take care of them. He comme ts positively kn my facebook posts likes them. But why?"

Probably to "save face" dear. Meaning, he probably feels some guilt and shame and doesn't want others on the outside to think ill of him. So even in spite of what he's done, he's still maintaining a bit of "nice guy" so that others (including you) have no additional stones to throw at him, ya' know? I imagine, guilt, shame, embarrassment and a bit of remorse are what's driving that behavior.

"I dont want to bring up emotions and he avoids them as well"

Well unfortunately dear, the entire scenario revolves around emotions. Emotions are at the heart of the matter and when both parties are avoiding exploring them - it basically amounts to two people ignoring the real problem, ya' know? The issue will never be resolved to the point of understanding if both parties are unwilling to address them head on.

The other woman isn't the issue. The issue at hand here is that, for some reason, he was unhappy. That's the only reason another woman was able to get her foot in the door - because the unhappiness allowed "space" for another individual - it caused a wedge, a gap between you two, that created enough "space" for someone else to step into. When a couple is happy, the are "tight" as a couple. But when unhappiness creeps in, for whatever reason, it creates space that permits others to enter the picture unfortunately.

And without him or you willing to explore what actually created that space, what the underlying cause of that was, the issue will never be resolved.

As a result, I think I might mention to him, next time he makes contact with you over your child, that because he is unwilling to explain his emotions and what caused this unhappiness in him - you are no longer going to speak with him regarding anything other than your child. No poems, no BS, no denial - unless he's willing to talk about what's truly wrong - there will be NO other talking taking place.

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror...I am writing for your advice on my current sitution. I was with someone for 3 years and we split up about 3 months ago. The only contact we have had is odd occasions where he has emailed me about something or called to collect or drop off some stuff. Last week i heard he had been in hopsital and I emailed him to say i hoped he was ok..that led to an exchange of emails which led him to coming round that evening to collect one last thiing he had left. He came round dressed up and upbeat that things were going well in his life.I am afraid to say I lost it and winded up upset and crying as he told me he was seeing someone...I asked him if we could have another go and needless to say he didnt want to. I am now doing no contact and wont be contacting him for anything at anytime...Do you think I have blown my chances here and do you think Ill hear off him again? And can this ever be put right so we can get back together - obviously on my terms and not his? Thanks English Rose x

Marie Naziri said...

Great articla

Anonymous said...

@ Mirror :) I'm the anonymous that posted about the guy I've been seeing, keeping me waiting and waiting.and it seeming like a game.. Under the no contact article you brilliantly wrote.. so I read this amazing piece too. Wish I would have read this a while ago. I have a personal confusion now.. maybe you can see it for what it is. I had a good friend of mine that knows about this whole thing suggested that this guy flaked because he was trying to end things altogether and just didn't know how. So although he asked me to hang out just the night before.. He didn't mean it..and never intended to. Like he broke the silence (from my attempt at no contact) and asked to see me, to be nice in a really warped way. . I guess my question is... Can games really get that warped and heartless? I may retire from dating altogether after this one. Lol!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 8, 7:25 AM,
"Can games really get that warped and heartless?"

Absolutely dear, and even worse. There are many "horror" stories shared on the articles on this site, particularly this one:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/06/disappearing-reappearing-man-what-to-do.html

You're not alone dear, there are literally thousands of comments on that site and many stories of pain. Which is the reason it's now IMPERATIVE for women to protect themselves by "filtering" and "qualifying" men as dateable prior to getting emotionally involved with them. And the way a man proves himself as genuinely interested in a woman is by pursuing her. By asking her out, by being consistent in his interest, by calling regularly, by making dates regularly - and by being the man in the situation that initiates much of this very early on.

The only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested or not, is to see if HE comes to HER.

If you're the one initiating conversation (which men view as YOU pursuing THEM), then you have no way of knowing if he's genuinely interested or not. And you're then in a situation where, yea, men can lie to you and tell you what they think you want to hear, to string you along (many times as a sexual option, as a "Plan B"). And that's why I don't suggest that women pursue men. When they do, they place themselves into a very confusing situation for themselves. Whereas, if they'd simply pull back and wait for the man to come to them, they'd easily see who is interested and who isn't...and there'd be no more confusion, ya' know?

Forget their WORDS and focus on their ACTIONS (or lack thereof). When there's no action dear to back up their words, then you have your answer, ya' know? You don't even have to ask and there's no confusion. Their actions, or lack thereof, truly tell the tale. So when a man is all talk and no action, you have your answer and it should raise a red flag about the man. And when that happens dear, you don't become anxious and try harder. Instead, it's best to accept the reality that lay before you and move forward as best you can with your own life - finding a man that wants what you want, one that's willing to PROVE that to you, and one that you can rely on :-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you truly! :) It hurts like hell. But it's definitely time to forget him. I'll never understand games..and honestly don't think I'll date for a long time to come..If ever again. Too painful. We started out the right way..I guess that's what makes it so confusing. He would always pursue me..Then the games started..My hats off to the women that can keep at the dating game. Cheers!

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

I have a question about a guy I've been dating for a while now. I met him back in February and we dated exclusively for 6 months until he had to leave for a semester of exchange. So we took a break, which was his idea. During that time, he was EXTREMELY attentive and reached out a lot (more than he had when he was here, similar to when he was first trying to woo me) while I hung back. When he did come back after his semester abroad, we got back together almost immediately. I realize now that I probably should've given him a harder time, but I felt like he had put in a lot of effort in keeping up communication during those months away (email, messages, letter) and I really missed him.
Two weeks after he came back, I thought he had been lying to me and I called him out on it, saying I couldn't be with someone I couldn't trust, until I found out it was a misunderstanding and we made up. Two days after this happened, he asked me out again and we had a really fun date. But after that, I went a week without hearing from him. And since then, he started communicating less. Was he looking for more reassurance from me?
Recently I've found his communications have been very sparse. He is still the one to initiate contact and make dates but now these come much less frequently - it's went from 1-2x a week when he returned from abroad in January (similar to how it was before he left) to now, 2x a month in February. It is now not uncommon to go a week without hearing from him, and I wish we spoke more, but I don't want to be initiating contact. But then he comes back after a week or so, reinitiates contact, and makes a date and he always seems happy to do so and attentive on the date itself, and treats me really well. But then he disappears again and I don't hear from him for a week, until he starts talking again, eventually makes a date, and the cycle continues. Is this normal behaviour of a man who is actually interested? Especially since it seems like he is pulling back?
For the past few weeks, he had been working on a rather large work project and hadn't reached out at all, now going on to three weeks. Unfortunately I did the stupid thing and became anxious and reached out many times in little ways. He has responded politely but doesn't seem interested at all in making conversation or asking about me. At the time I think it was because he was busy and didn't want to be disturbed but I'm pretty sure now he is not as busy as he claims. He frequently talks to others on social media, and I feel like he almost wants me to know that he is not as busy anymore but he still doesn't feel like contacting or hanging out with me.
I feel like I want to reestablish what we had, but it takes two people to make a relationship work and he hasn't been making any efforts at all since this project. I'm starting to get depressed that he won't come back. Should I cut him a break if/when he returns? Or should I ignore him? Or tell him how disappointed and unimpressed I feel about him not reaching out for weeks? I really don't know what to do about his pulling away and I really like this guy. Any insights?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 5, 7:29 PM,
"Is this normal behaviour of a man who is actually interested? Especially since it seems like he is pulling back?"

It's the normal behavior or a man that's dating a woman casually and doesn't really consider himself in a relationship with. I believe the distance he's placing between you is to slow down the pace so that it doesn't enter into relationship territory :-(

If you two had just met and he was doing this, it'd be expected because that's casual dating. But after 6 months, the pace should actually be picking up if it were going to move into relationship territory and instead of doing that, he's slowing it down :-(

"Should I cut him a break if/when he returns?"

If you want more of this treatment, then cut him a break. If you don't, then don't permit this.

"Or tell him how disappointed and unimpressed I feel about him not reaching out for weeks?"

Sharing your emotions with him will only drive him further away at this point dear. He's placing space there because he's trying to avoid becoming emotionally involved. If you hit him with those emotions, you risk driving him away :-(

"Or should I ignore him?"

You're free to do as you please, but if it were me, I would. I would not be saving myself for a man (i.e. refusing to date other men) that is taking me for granted to that extent, expecting me to be sitting around for weeks with no word, waiting on him. Only to then become available to him when it's convenient to HIM.

I think this piece will help shed some light: http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/02/dating-feeling-helpless-what-to-do.html

Anonymous said...

Hello again Mirror (it's Anonymous Mar 5, 7:29 PM),

Funny thing. So the morning you wrote this response (I hadn't read it yet), I found out that that guy who was distancing himself from me had been talking non-stop on Facebook and through texting to a girl he had met a couple weeks ago (right when he started pulling away). And throughout his Facebook were multiple blatant hints through his own statuses and posts between them...his way of saying "I'm not busy, I'm just not talking".

Anyway, as soon as I saw this I immediately took a "proactive role" as you said, and I unfriended him before he even had the chance to confirm, deny, make up his mind, or end things with me. I figured, if he doesn't have the balls to tell me upfront, and make me find out through Facebook, I'm gonna walk away and cut him off through Facebook also. I believed this the right thing to do at the time, to enact No Contact and detach emotionally from a man that's been in my life for over a year now. I need to move on emotionally from him.

Here's the thing: this guy, he was my first. My first kiss, first guy I ever dated, lots of firsts with this one. When we first started dating a year ago, we both agreed to date each other casually but exclusively, and I think we both developed deeper feelings for each other that we didn't want to verbally actualize or admit to one another for fear we would get closer (because we both knew he was going to leave for that semester abroad). He had such a big impact on my life and I get the feeling I did on him too, because before he met me he had tons of flings with women and never stayed long with them at all (one night stands to a few months at most). He would constantly tell me how lucky he was to have met me and how different I was than the girls he had ever been with. I think the fact that he tried to pursue me for a year says something about him, and he told me he did want to give me a good first dating experience (which, before he had left, he definitely did). But in the end he couldn't sacrifice his own need for flings and novelty any longer when he met someone new.

Because we both had such a big impact on one another, I feel like I don't want to shut him out forever. At the time when we were together, he was a good person to me. I want to re-add him back on Facebook eventually (maybe after a couple months, after I'm sure I've detached emotionally from him) and basically say that I know things didn't end well between us, but he had a significant impact on my life at the time and I hope we can at least be amicable now. Do you think this is a bad idea?

And, I guess my questions for you now are, why do you think he wasn't upfront with me about ending things? (My theory is he didn't want to hurt my feelings and figured it would be easier for me to find out this way, and I don't think he was completely over me to the point where he could say goodbye to me again without it hurting him also). Do you think he will ever regret that he lost what he had with me? Do you have any advice for getting over your first?

Thanks again for your advice, Mirror. I stumbled upon your dating articles when I first met him and they really have never let me down :)

Anonymous said...

Sorry one more thing Mirror - he just texted me saying " We aren't Facebook friends anymore??" Ughh what do I do...if a breakup is what is happening I can't be friends with him now! But I don't want to shut that door on him forever :( I'm so confused and hurt.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 5, 7:29 PM,
"we both agreed to date each other casually but exclusively, and I think we both developed deeper feelings for each other that we didn't want to verbally actualize or admit to one another for fear we would get closer"

You can't assume that dear. You can't assume that because that's the way you feel (a woman's feelings) that that's the way he must feel (a man's feelings). Because the reality here is that this guy has a pattern:

"he had tons of flings with women and never stayed long with them at all (one night stands to a few months at most)"

And that pattern HAS NOT CHANGED. Your relationship with him boiled down to a few months as well :-( And it appears that this is actually rather normal behavior for him, so you can't assume that his feelings are involved to the depth that you're experiencing them :-(

"But in the end he couldn't sacrifice his own need for flings and novelty any longer when he met someone new."

Exactly. This guy is a player more or less, that's used to casual dating, brief flings and brief affairs consisting of a few months. This is nothing new for him - this is how he operates.

"Do you think this is a bad idea?"

Yes I do. And the reason is because again, you cannot assume the same impact was felt by him that was felt by you. For you, this relationship included lots of "firsts." For him, this was simply "business as usual." :-( So you can't project what you feel onto him and assume he feels the same ya' know? Because all of that was just WORDS and when it came down to real ACTION, in the end, there was none...and once again, his short attention span was diverted elsewhere as usual.

So if you willingly place yourself near him again in the future, he WILL use flowery words to mislead you into thinking something real is taking place here (it's what players do, they say what they think you want to hear to get what they want to get from you) - and he will attempt USE you sexually as a result. If I were you, I would not place myself into that position with a man like this who has a history such as this when dating.

He's used to telling women what he thinks they want to hear in order to get what he wants to get from them, and then once he's had his fill, he's off to his next adventure....and this is all "business as usual" for him. I wouldn't willingly place myself into a situation with him where I could fall prey to that again :-(

"why do you think he wasn't upfront with me about ending things?"

Because this is how players are dear - they're selfish and cowardly. As well, they're not going to be honest because if they are, they risk the woman walking away. And if she does that, that means he's no longer got the opportunity to string her along or manipulate her into settling for "less" here and making herself available to him as a sexual option. If they're truthful, they lose a sexual option - so they're not truthful.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"My theory is he didn't want to hurt my feelings and figured it would be easier for me to find out this way, and I don't think he was completely over me to the point where he could say goodbye to me again without it hurting him also"

I understand why you think that dear, but read that again and this time....notice how many "emotions" you're placing upon him there? "Hurting" "feelings" "over you" "goodbye" "hurting him." Notice how many of YOUR emotions that you're projecting onto HIM, as his own? Women and men aren't similar dear in the ways of relationships and emotions and you can't assume that because that's how you feel - that he must feel the same, ya' know? Because I can tell you this, for every one emotion a man feels....a woman feels ten. So all of these emotions and emotional thoughts you have about this...he's probably feeling maybe one of them dear and that's it - if even that :-(

Men do NOT BOND emotionally from SEX. They simply do NOT. Women do. They experience the release of Oxytocin during sex and relationships and this makes them experience all kinds of emotions. Men do NOT experience the release of Oxytocin that women do. Instead, they get a jolt of testosterone, which has the exact opposite effect and makes them want to mate more, with more women :-(

"Do you think he will ever regret that he lost what he had with me?"

I'm not sure dear and only time will tell :-(

"Do you have any advice for getting over your first?"

There is no magic pill dear. You HAVE to walk through the pain. They only way past it...is to walk through it. The best way to get rid of the pain is to feel the pain - and go beyond it. When you do that, the sun does shine again dear :-)

Anonymous said...

Please help me with some advice since you're a libra man. I've been dating this October 10 Libra man 33yo (Im Aries, 30yo) for 5 months now. We are in a LD relationship (2 1/2 hours away). In the beginning, it was great. He would come, meet me and a friend of his that lives in my city and we'd have so much fun. He was so warm, friendly, open and we would cuddle for hours. Initially, I was into him but not as much as he was as he was getting too overprotective and I felt so overwhelmed with all the attention and invasion of space. However, little by little I was pulled in and started to get stronger feelings. He told me he wanted to be in a committed relationship and I reminded him of home (he has lived for most his life in another country). He said he felt "protected" with me.
We had a couple of situations where he was not happy with me because of his jealousy issues with this one specific friend. We went in a couple of hang out places and guys would hit on me and he would jump in and difuse the situation. However, we moved passed the issues and we kept rotating with our visits. I would see him every 2 weeks and he'd come see me every 2 weeks. One time I get a pocket call from him and I could hear loud music and him and some girl talking. I confronted him about it and he denied it. So, I let it go since I really had nothing to go by that proved any infidelity. Fast forward, in the last 2 months he became more and more distant.

One time, he went out of town on business and didn't tell me. We were speaking everyday and then all of the sudden he would not reply my calls or txt me back. I was so worried something happened to him. 3 days later he calls and apologizes profusely about his behavior.

Then in December, I was hoping we'd spend the holidays together but he didn't come (he was telling me would come though and then not follow up). He came on Dec 28 (after xmass and before new years). I thought that was very weird but I was so happy to see him as it had been now 3 weeks. (Side note: He had some business issues and was deciding if he should relocate to another state. I tried to be understanding and gave him space.) We went to a nice bar (very upscale, told him to dress up and I was dressed to the 9s) and we had drinks, a great time and long story short, had a nice adventure with the hotel reservation. We ended up later at his friends house talking and hanging out.

Starting January 2014, we were still talking consistently but then mid month for one whole week he would text me but not pick up the phone calls. One weekend he didn't pick up at all or follow up with me and told me he went to another city on the weekend to help a friend move. Another time he told me he forgot the phone over the weekend in the car so we didn't talk. As expected, I was so frustrated and I started to think that he was just making up excuses. When I got to speak with him, I explained that I needed to speak with him as that is what a LDR is about. ...
(cont.) ~Sweet Serenity~

Anonymous said...

He listened and among other things said "well, it's gonna be like this sometimes". I thought that was the most stupid answer ever and pretty much a nice brush-off, however I didn't say anything to hurt his ego, rather explained my side of it and asked how he'd feel if I did the same to him. He agreed.. Now, last Friday I spoke with him again and then we said our goodbyes. I see my phone an hour later and he had called twice and had left me two pocket voicemails again.

I listened to the voicemails and it was pocket calls again and yet again I could hear him laugh with his friends and joking around. A minute later, I could hear him with a serious voice introducing this girl to one of his friends. Yet, I couldn't get anything substantial to consider as cheating. I call him back one hour later and he didn't pick up.

Valentine's day he text me early in the morning to wish me happy Valentine's day. I replied back. He didn't call or come to see me. However, he calls me at 2am and I woke up from the call so we spoke until 5am. We had not spoken for the past week other than txt. I called him a couple of times and he didn't pick. So, why call at 2am to discuss and tell me he misses me? It's puzzling. I'm not sure what his deal is..

...And I mean we had a full 3 hour conversation talking about our lives, relationship etc. This wasn't like a drunk phone call of lets meet and have sex. So, I'm really confused. Can someone shed some light? Why not pick up the phone and talk about it on regular day hours but have convo at 2am..?

~Sweet Serenity~

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Sweet Serenity,
"Please help me with some advice since you're a libra man."

I'm a Taurus female, not a Libra man :-)

"Why not pick up the phone and talk about it on regular day hours but have convo at 2am..?"

Well, that's not really what matters here. What matters here is that this guy has now become inconsistent, unreliable and untrustworthy - and none of those are qualities you want in a mate. He now seems unwilling to fulfill your needs and his commitment to you. And when that happens dear, nothing you say or do can change that because you can't control others, you can only control your reaction to them.

If he's not making you happy, causing you to worry, creating anxiety for you and is taking you for granted - then you walk away from him. You don't stay and drive yourself nuts trying to change his mind or him because that won't happen. Instead, you accept the reality and the reality is that he's no longer willing to make you happy and he's not being 100% honest and he's no longer reliable - and you walk:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/02/dating-feeling-helpless-what-to-do.html

Anonymous said...

Oops, sorry MOA. I just read your "about" section.
Thank you for your quick reply. I appreciate your honesty. Your blogs provide great information.

Just wanted to air one situation - Last weekend I spoke with him and he was at his friends house. I have met his friends in his city and they all like me. We've spend time together before that as well.
I hadn't spoken to him the previous weekdays because my work shifts suddently changed. He had called me on Monday and I hadn't replied for 1 week straight. When we spoke on the weekend, in the middle of the conversation he made sure to tell his friends that I said Hi (to which I didn't). Also, he kept it short and to the point and said he'll call later to which he didn't. I felt a slight annoyance at the time when I was telling him about the schedule change.
What I find interesting is that he had told me in the beginning that he thinks that I try to make his friends like me. I told him, no I don't,we just get along well. I do not go out of my way for them to like me. But they all do..Nevertheless, I figured I'd let it go. I thought it was his jealosy because of that one particular friend.
I thought it was weird though, that this weekend, he lied to them and told them i said hi. Any thoughts on this?

Also, last time I was in his city he cooked a nice meal for me which I thought it was very nice. We have a great time together when we see each other and it's hard for me to think that what was so beautiful in the beginning can turn so confusing. When Im with him, he makes me feel special...
However, I concur with you about his inconsistency and lack of following through with actions recently. You've hit the nail in the head, it is causing me anxiety and so much so sometimes I find myself drifting into thoughts about him and being unable to concentrate on work and other matters. I may have gotten it bad! :(

I was just wondering if there is anything I can do at this point about this situation other than leave.
Thanks,
~Sweet Serenity~

Anonymous said...

Hello mirror, thank you so much for the relationship advice you give u.. So... Ummm...... I used to date this guy for 2years and we had. Alot of issues, he claims to be an introvert and sometimes he shuts down and I try to reach out to him, he completely ignores me until he is ready to talk and then says he is sorry.


He broke up with me November last year, he excuses were that he was too good for me and that I deserved better and he was not ready for a relationship anymore and anytime he releases hez neglecting me he feels guilty and that the breakup was inevitable (we were having loads of fights and I kept trying to tell him to make time for me). I was rily upset when he did that and he was all he still likes me but does not want obligations that we should go with the flow and I agreed.
we were good until last month when we made plans to see before I came back home for holz and he called a day before to cancel out saying he was goin to be busy (next day was Val) and I got upset and I sent texts messages and I tried calling him the following day and he completelt ignored me n refused to reply to my messages he finally picked 2weeks later and was acting all distant n cold answering yea or no and the I tried calling later that week and he ignored me throughout.
I got upset and asked him if we still had an US that I apologized for overreacting and the messages and he replied saying THERE IS NO US, THERE'S YOU AND THERE'S ME, Y ARE YOU TRYING SO HARD TO TURN THIS INTO A RELATIONSHIP n I told him I was sorry if that's how he felt ad I'v left him alone for the past 3weeks... I feel so hurt especially as it was hez idea to try the whole be together even though we broke. Hez birthday is comin up next week, do u think I shud ignore him?? I still care about him but seems to e that he no longer respects me and sees me as desparate

Anonymous said...

P.s we'v had sex just twice... He willing waited and we had sex when I got back from school after the break up.. Thank u

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 20, 1:01 PM,
"it was hez idea to try the whole be together even though we broke"

Well dear, that's NOT what he said. What he said was:

"he was not ready for a relationship anymore...he still likes me but does not want obligations that we should go with the flow and I agreed"

And that means - casually date (i.e. nothing regular, only sporadic, and no commitments).

"His birthday is coming up next week, do u think I should ignore him?"

I certainly would NOT reach out to him and at this point, I wouldn't bother responding to him either. He's told you that he doesn't want a relationship, so there's no reason to remain attached to him and put yourself through any further agony over it. You're better off placing him in your past and moving forward to find a man that wants what you want - a relationship.

Spending any further amount of energy or time on a man who doesn't want what you want...is a waste of time and precious resources dear :-(

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much mirror, will do just that

Silvijewel said...

I came across your website and I have to say you are spot on with everything your write. I have definitely been that woman to chase a guy. Thinking "hey why not invite him to an event." That only last a month. After reading your posts I've started practicing these new techniques/changes and it has been working. I met a guy online about 2 weeks ago. It went something like this:

He messaged me and was intruiged by my profile and was interested in getting to know more about me. We exchanged a few messages back and forth. He seemed a pretty cool guy. Then he asks me out for coffee/drink and if I was interested to give him a text and included his number. I replied with Sure, I'd like that and gave him my number. He actually sent me a text the following day and we scheduled a date. We met and we pretty much had a lot in common and wanted the same things in our lives and partners. He asked to see me again so I said "Sure, you have my number."

That night after our date he sent a text saying:
"Tonight was so nice. I really felt that I got to know you in such a short visit. Thank you. Let's get together again soon!"

So we made a date for the following Wednesday. The Sunday prior to our date, I had to change the time to our date because one of my co.workers had a death in the family and had to leave the state. It is only 3 of us in my work so I covered her shift. I texted him Sunday afternoon letting him know what was going on and if he was ok with meeting at 6:30pm instead of 6:00pm. He replied this:

"I hope everything is ok. Why don't we pick another night? Looking forward to seeing you again!"

I said: "Thanks for your concern. She is ok. How about Thursday same time?"

He said: "Thursday I have softball so I can't. How about this weekend or next week?"

I said: "I have a business tradeshow all weekend but I am available Saturday and Monday night."

He said: "Cool, let's talk before the weekend."

I am confused here, or am I being too over analytical? What did he mean by "Let's talk before the weekend"?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Silvijewel,
Sounds to me like he's attempting to manipulate you into chasing him. DON'T do it. Do NOT call this man, do not text this man. If he wants you, he knows where to find you - and HE will call YOU.

If he doesn't do that right away, don't worry about it. Keep dating other men and keep moving forward because chances are, you'll hear from him again within a four week window ;-)

Men that display these traits have patterns dear, as do many of the men who date online. If you just keep moving forward (don't stop for these men) and dating others and living your life and being happy doing your own thing, they come sniffing around again, LOL.

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror,

I've been married for 27 years and for the past 15 years my husband's doctor has been telling him about his high cholesterol problem, something he hasn't been paying much attention to at all. He hides his tests results from me and hides in his office "man cave" a lot. He has a gym membership but doesn't work out as much as he should considering his weight and health problem. When I first married him, he would work out diligently every day and it showed he was in excellent health. He was very fit and his eating habits were excellent.
Now, no amount of encouragement from me makes any difference in his eating and other lifestyle changes. Sometimes I resort to nagging which I know would be worse. I'm completely frustrated with his behaviour. Now he refuses to talk about it and is completely silent on the subject, like he is lying low until my anger subsides or something.
His doctor advised him he need to make lifestyle changes if he doesn't want to be on medications but I haven't seen any change in that direction at all. Yesterday on the phone, he said he'd rather take the medications, and he said he'll deal with his health on his own and he hung up on me.
I feel he doesn't appreciate all that I'm doing for him on this issue. As though its expected of me to be his mother. Everyone in our family tries to lead a very discipline lifestyle in terms of making healthy food choices, exercising etc. but he feels he is invincible and nothing can go wrong.
I'm completely unhappy with his lousy lifestyle habits and I don't know what I could do to make him see the harm he is doing to himself. I offered to get him a personal trainer and dietician to help him on his journey to wellness but he refused to go for help. What should I do? I feel like he is trying to make me a young widow and that makes me so unhappy.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 17, 12:59 PM,
"What should I do? I feel like he is trying to make me a young widow and that makes me so unhappy."

Nothing dear. Regretfully, there isn't anything that you can do. The simple fact of the matter is that we cannot control others. We cannot make them want what we want, we cannot make them feel what we feel and we cannot project our wishes and desires onto them and expect them to comply, ya' know? And the more you do that, the more you push them away unfortunately.

Again, you can't control others, but you CAN control your reaction to them. You can choose to accept it, you can use reverse psychology, you can choose not to care...or you can choose to leave :-( Unfortunately dear, the only thing we can control is ourselves.

I'm not telling you to leave your husband, but the reality is that you can't control him either ya' know? You can try, but it will only make you miserable and probably cause more fighting and isolation. Maybe the best thing to do dear, is to let HIM figure this out for himself. Let HIM see the results he's produced for himself and let HIM figure out what, if anything, he wants to do about it. And then simply support him in that as best you can, if you can.

Anonymous said...

Hi there, @Anonymous Apr 17, 12:59 P

What I'm hearing here is that your husband is possibly suffering from an unacknowledged depression of sorts and there are classic signs here and stopping to care for yourself and your appearance and being unmotivated to do so are classics signs for sure...

He may not even realise himself and furthermore, with depression often there is a disconnection with feelings and often the person is that confused and despondent that they do not know what is going on themselves until they reconnect with buried feelings.

I do feel for you and hear your frustration, you obviously care and love your husband and I can totally understand your need to try and help him and do something about it but unfortunately until your husband can acknowledge his own feelings (depression or not) and open up about what is going on for him (as this behaviour he is showing is a sypmtom of something deeper I feel) then whatever you do could be deemed as interference by him and irritate him and push him away further. Mirror is right you cannot control others and I know you are only trying to help him, unfortunately help not asked for, it can sometimes be experienced as interference.

So until he is ready to reach out for help or wants to open up about what's going on for him I have a suggestion that might help both of you, as it will take it's toll on you too. If it is depression/low mood then in the medical world it is widely becoming recognised that walking outdoors in nature, sunshine and fresh air is extremely effective in combating depression and boosting well-being (can be just as effective as medication and counseling) and even though you say he is exercising still a bit in the gym, exercising outdoors magnifies any benefits of exercise on well-being - this has been scientifically proven.

So you could maybe a suggest a lunch out to the pub maybe and go for a walk after, do it for you and not with the aim that you are trying to help him and treat it as a day out. Moreover, being out in nature and walking helps to ground you and re-connect you with yourself through nature and this will help him to reconnect with his feelings and hopefully you will reconnect as a couple and he will begin to open up.

Wishing you all the best

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror of Aphrodite. A few days ago, I left a man I loved and who claimed to love me, because he wasn't ready to be exclusive with me yet. It was a matter of self-respect. It was painful to let him go but I know in doing so, I did what was best for me. And for him. I don't believe he's ever had to experience the consequences of losing someone important because of his choices with a prior woman. He's truly not ready for a relationship, but not for the reasons he believes. He's insecure and not happy, both with himself and where he's at in life. I know this through my observations and because he opens up to me about his problems. I also believe I'm the only one he turns to for emotional support. Throughout the course of time we spent together, he would say he needs to do better. But by his actions, he never put in a real effort to do so. From what I see, he self-medicates, whether it's through e-cigarettes, drinking, or sex. He doesn't face his problems. A real effort would be seeking out professional help. And while I love him, I can't fix him. He has to fix himself. He has to want to. So I hope my leaving him serves as a wake-up call. Most likely, he'll come back, because throughout the course of our time, though I was nice, maybe too nice, I was always assertive, in both word and action (by going silent on him for a while), when he didn't behave in a manner I liked and he always responded in my favor. Because his positives outweigh his negatives, I'm willing to give him a second chance, something I've never given out to the men who have tried to come back into my life. But only if those issues get resolved and he proves himself worthy again, like he did in the beginning. He has to become the man I need him to be. Though I'm not counting on him to come back, I want to be prepared if/when he does. I wanted you to advise me on what I should do out of the three: tell him all this about himself, wait three days and then mirror, or go no contact for at least a month. I haven't contacted him since and I'm not tempted to. In the meantime, I'm just going through the grieving process, focusing on myself and making myself happy. I would really appreciate your help.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 29, 8:59 AM,
"what I should do out of the three: tell him all this about himself, wait three days and then mirror, or go no contact for at least a month"

I would suggest what many might perceive as the most difficult of the three - going completely silent - but not for a month...until HE contacts YOU.

Let's review what the most likely outcome is of the three first so that you understand why that's my suggestion:

Tell Him All of This About Himself

That will serve no purpose other than creating defensiveness that leads to confrontation and ultimately ends in - resentment. If you confront him and tell him exactly what you think of him, not only will this damage his ego to an undeniable extent, but it will instantly put him on the defensive.

Once that happens, he may respond with sizing you up and saying hurtful things. He will also most likely defend himself by shifting blame onto you - meaning, his actions were somehow the result of YOUR behavior. And when it reaches that stage, both parties walk away bitter and resentful of the other.

So that's not a winning formula for proper communication.

Wait Three Days and then Mirror

This won't work. Not only that, it may give him the reaction that a man would expect from a woman immediately following a breakup - which is her being regretful of taking the action in the first place, and going back on her word, and behaving "off balance" emotionally as a result.

Once you've left someone under the circumstances that you've left them here in this particular instance, if you go back on those words, every point you're trying to make....will fall on deaf ears. The individual on the receiving end of the breakup will NOT take anything you say seriously once they see you going back on your words and contacting them only days afterwards. And men in particular chalk up actions like this to women "over reacting" and behaving "hysterically" and "emotionally" and as a result, they fluff it off if not downright laugh it off - and all of your efforts fall short and your message is not heard.

No Contact for at Least a Month

This leads into the final of the three which is similar to what I've written immediately above in point two. No contact for 30 days can be helpful in these situations, however, since you're the one the initiated the breakup for very specific reasons...again, if YOU are the one to contact him FIRST...he's going to view that as you reappearing a month later - and being regretful of your actions.

So in this instance (as in many NC instances), I believe that it's necessary to give plenty of time for the individual to not only THINK about changing any self-destructive behavior they're exhibiting...but to also have the time to actually ENACT the changes. And that's a process that takes more than 30 days. People cannot create entirely new lifestyles and bring about great change in how they think and act on a daily basis...in 4 short weeks.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

He needs plenty of time spent in silence to jump start the psychological process of "what went wrong" and reach the conclusion that he played a part in it. That may take 4 weeks in and of itself. After that, he then needs to BE the change he wishes to enact. This means changing beliefs, behaviors and lifestyle. It's a change that doesn't happen overnight.

If you interject yourself at ANY point throughout the process above, your presence in his life will influence his beliefs, thoughts and behaviors and possibly minimize the effect. Because the thing that will compel him to change...is his desire to have you back in his life. If you place yourself back into his life PRIOR to the changes actually being put into place...then you cut the process short and the changes never take effect.

He needs to:

1) Think about what went wrong
2) Decide he played a part in it
3) Determine what to do to change things
4) Actually BECOME the change he wants to see

And you can't step in at any of those 4 stages because if you do, the stages that follow will NOT take place. Not having you in his life is what will compel him to change if he truly cares for you. Once you step back into his life, he no longer has that compulsion, that force driving him to change, because what he wanted has already returned and he will see no need to continue working on himself as a result.

Silence is golden dear. And by doing nothing - you're actually doing a lot ;-)

Anonymous said...

I'm the anonymous with the three options this morning. I was leaning toward the third option but I thought me coming back might not be interpreted the way I want as well. Thank you so much for the confirmation! I feel a lot better now!

Anonymous said...

Hello Moa,

Just wanted your advice please on this!
What's the 'proper' etiquette for paying when going on a first / second date with a guy? See thing is this is a good guy, I like him on all levels so far BUT on our first date we took turns buying the drinks - fair enough. Then on second date he paid for one venue and when we went to second venue I paid and it was about the same. I should add both of us are about at same level financially in careers etc.
So my question is - and I should add here that I DO NOT expect a guy to always pay and I ALWAYS offer and certainly after a few dates then yes it should be the both of you - but I'm just talking about the first 1 to 2 dates, is this showing him as stingy? I should add that he was in a previous relationship where the woman paid for nothing ever (not even share of rent) and ended up cheating on him so I think he's wary but does this mean I should excuse it or should I consider him stingy/bad mannered? I'm really confused becuase it's not the money it's the principle I hope other women here understand where i'm coming from about this! Thanks

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous April 29, 4:17PM,
"I should add here that I DO NOT expect a guy to always pay and I ALWAYS offer and certainly after a few dates then yes it should be the both of you"

I'm probably not the one to pose your question to then dear because I COMPLETELY disagree with the statement above. So much so that I wrote this piece about that very topic:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/02/pay-for-a-date.html

I want to be treated like a lady with a man. I don't want to be his buddy and I don't want him treating me like his buddy or some dude he's hanging out with. I want the man to take the lead role, the masculine role, and I believe that a man's masculinity is tied into his willingness to prove himself a man - a provider. And that has nothing to do with money...it about gender roles and Mother Nature.

Back in the day, the caveman with the hottest cave babe, the one able to provide offspring to him, he wasn't the richest caveman around. What he was - was a GOOD PROVIDER. What made him masculine and enticing to the healthiest woman able to bear his offspring wasn't cash, it was his ability to provide, prove himself a man and prove himself capable and WILLING to provide and care for his offspring. And those provisions included food, water, protection and shelter - the basics.

And whether we like to admit it or not, while our society and culture have changed, our DNA has not. Even though women can provide those things for themselves, deep down, they're not impressed by men that are unwilling to do so. And apparently, you're even having some of those primal issues pop up for you now...because you're here signaling that you're a bit displeased with this situation and this man's unwillingness to provide on a certain level. You're worried about him thinking your stingy. When the reality is...you're unimpressed on some level with him not manning up. So you see, whether we like to admit it or not...these things are still in our DNA - it's how we're coded.

And even you yourself are grappling with it - with the principle of the idea and not the money - "I'm really confused becuase it's not the money it's the principle." And you're confused because deep down, in your DNA...male = provider to you as a woman. It's still there, regardless of modern day ways.

Deep down, women are still turned on by the most masculine man (the one able to prove himself a provider and protector). And men are still turned on by the female form (primally, they are coded by Mother Nature to be attracted to the female figure as subconsciously, it represents child bearing abilities to them, particularly the hip to waist ratio that represents the hour glass figure...hourglass figure = child bearing hips.)

So to answer your question, I guess it depends on who you ask these days, but you're asking me so here's my take on it:

"What's the 'proper' etiquette for paying when going on a first date?"

You don't pay and you don't offer to pay, you don't sell yourself short for the ladylike, romantic treatment that you deserve and that fulfills your needs as a woman...unless you never plan to see the man again. If you plan on seeing him again, let him be a man, be a provider, prove to you his willingness to do so, and let him pay.

If you don't like the guy and never want to see him again, pick up the tab and leave. And the same goes for the remainder of dates, until you reach the committed stage and/or have been dating months and things have leveled out.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Word of warning dear...the tone you set on the first date will be the tone of the entire relationship from that point forward. If you start off as the guy's buddy or some dude he's hanging out with, paying your own way, then that's how he'll treat you from that point forward and that's how he'll expect you to act from then on. And over time, you'll start to question him as a man and you'll be disappointed in him. You'll wonder why he treated another woman so very special, but won't lift a finger for you. You'll find that your needs for romance aren't being met and you'll begin to feel unworthy inside. You'll begin to question the man, as you are already doing now, and you'll begin to wonder why he isn't willing to treat you special...and all of this will affect your attraction to him, slowly, over the long run until eventually, you'll enter into confrontations with him along the lines of, "Why don't you ever take me out to dinner and treat me nice?" Or, "Why did you do all these special things for her, but you do none of them for me?" Or, "When are you going to start treating me like your girlfriend instead of your buddy?" Or, "Why are you so lazy, why do I have to pay for everything everytime we go out?"

And the reason you'll get to that point is because of two very primal things: 1) He's not proving himself a man and a good provider 2) He's not fulfilling your primal needs as a woman for that feeling of security with your man.

My views are very traditional dear. My grandfather didn't expect my grandmother to pay. My father didn't expect my mother to pay. The men in my life are men. They are providers and they are leaders. Any indication from a woman to pick up the tab...would insult their masculinity and they would take great offense to that.

And while I understand my opinions on that matter don't necessarily fit with modern day opinions...I still believe that what makes a man a man in a woman's eyes is his masculinity - and his masculinity is directly tied to his ability (willingness) to provide for his woman and his offspring.

That's what gentlemen do - they lead by example.

Anonymous said...

Hello Moa - so what do you suggest then becuase the first two dates already happened. Should I bail now and never see him again or go on the third and just not even offer? Is it too late?! haha. You are right - it makes sense why it so confusing that it was such a turn off for him to 'LET' me pay right!

Anonymous said...

ps is it something you can even say to the guy - like, do you feel comfortable when a women pays - would that drop a hint and open up the topic for discussion or is that a no no? thanks!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 30, 1:39 PM,
If a guy signals that he expects ME to pay for my own first date with him that HE INVITED ME on...then I pay and never see him again. It's such a huge turnoff, I don't even consider a second date at that point.

If this guy doesn't even go out of his way for you on the first date, then it's easy to imagine what a relationship with him would be like...it would be like...nothing special. It would be reduced to something like hanging out with friends or some dude that's my buddy. When there's no romantic edge to the date and it's just two buddies hanging out....what does the guy expect you to think of him then, ya' know? He's signaling I'm nothing special, I'm just his buddy, here we are hanging out...so that's how I take it from that day forward...as nothing special and nothing romantic.

Here's an article written by a man on this very topic and his own epiphany regarding paying for the date. He refers to it as being "time to bring sexy back:"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-platts/first-date-advice_b_4554666.html

And when a man treats you like a woman, it is sexy ;-)

"is it something you can even say to the guy - like, do you feel comfortable when a women pays"

I wouldn't venture into that territory unless I was prepared to walk away from the man if need be. Because that could lead to confrontation. He could take it as a blow to his ego and get defensive, say mean insulting things...you just never know. So if you're going to go there, you just need to be prepared for the fact that it could spell the end.

Anonymous said...

Hi M.O.A.-- What do you suggest when a guy implies sexual gestures during conversations. Here's the situation, met a guy online back in March. We emailed each other for about 2 weeks until we both exchanged numbers. Then we met towards the end of April. We had a date the following weekend and I invited him to my church for a service. So we saw each other 2 days in the same week. We both have different work schedules so we're only able to see each other on the weekend. During this last week or so, while talking to him on the phone, he'll make sexual comments such as:

1. I exercise, so my legs were sore and I mentioned that my legs were sore. He would say "well I can/could work those kinks out for you or if I need help with washing my back in the shower". So, I'll tell him that I feel that when I'm ready for your assistance, I'll let you know. Was that the right way to say it?

2. I'll say something to the likes of me wanting to get in a hot tub. He'll say something like "I'll think if I get in there with you, you'll try to take advantage of me"

How do I handle these implies and set my boundaries within? What should I say?

Tiff

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tiff,
He's "priming" you to have sex with him. He's creating visuals with those remarks and hoping to plant the seed in your mind, so that you get comfortable with the idea.

I'll tolerate one or two of those remarks at the most by really not acknowledging them. If the guy pushes and starts to steer the majority of conversations towards sex or begins regularly peppering the conversations with sexual innuendos....I simply don't speak to him anymore, because he's already signaling to me what he's there for and that after he receives it....he'll probably bolt.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,

I feel like I need some guidance. I've been dating this AWESOME guy for almost 4 years. The first three years were a bit rough because he has a drug/alcohol problem. Despite that horror, he really is a super kind, caring, sweet, handsome man. When I broke up with him after 3 years because he wouldn't get sober, he actually went and got sober. He went to rehab and has now been sober for 1 year and 5 months. We have been back together for 7 months of his sobriety. Here's the thing.

I don't have the spark anymore. It's gone. I had the spark for him all 3 years of being together even though we had problems, but as soon as I left him, it was like it just disappeared! I see very very small glimmers of it now and then but it's rare. I love him very much, I appreciate him, and I think he's wonderful, but I just don't "see" myself with him, you know? I used to see us together. The house, the marriage, the kids, the way life could be together. Now, I just can't see it.

He's also 12 years older than me and that has begun to worry me. I'm 30 years old and want to get married and have kids. He already has 2 grown kids and says he wouldn't "mind" having one more.

But, as I said, I don't see us getting married or having kids together. On top of that, I don't lust after him at all or want to have sex with him anymore. And by the way, the sex is not good. I've tried to talk to him about it and it was a disaster because he was very defensive and I'm not surprised because it is a difficult subject, but it means I get nothing out of sex, also. Even when we kiss. I want magic. I want to love kissing him. I don't need a big fantasy, but isn't at least THAT possible? To be with someone for 20 or 30 years and still love kissing them. I mean I love laying next to him in bed and cuddling, but I could be happy with just that.

I feel like i'm just kind of "there" in the relationship and it's peaceful and happy but I just feel like I want more. My relationship with my best girlfriend is peaceful and happy too but I don't want to marry her either. I want to have that feeling of "I don't want to live one day without you"...but I don't.

We've been through so much together and are so close that I don't want to just throw it all away, but I feel more like we are great friends than anything. We just moved back in together a couple months ago. I know he has bought a ring, but I told him that I wasn't ready for that and wanted to give it at least a year of living together to see how that goes.

I would be so thankful for any kind of guidance you can give. Is this not IT? Should I just be trying harder or doing more to make it better? How do you get to that place of "seeing yourself long term" together? Please help.

Thank you.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 19, 2:57 PM,
"as soon as I left him, it was like it just disappeared"

Well, that should tell you something dear. Most likely, that actually happened because you felt BETTER without him in your life. So the loss of him didn't stick because it was probably more of a relief than anything, even if you didn't realize it. This happens a lot. Women think they can't live without a man, but once he's gone, they actually don't feel the need to be with him again and find that their attraction to him has actually shifted - and in the end, it turns out the man wasn't as important to their happiness as they had originally thought.

"I just don't "see" myself with him, you know? I used to see us together. The house, the marriage, the kids, the way life could be together. Now, I just can't see it."

That could be because what you actually "saw" previously - was the "fantasy" version of what COULD be, and not what actually WAS. And now, you see what actually "was" and the fantasy of what could be, is gone - so there's nothing to emotionally attach and latch onto - no more idealized fantasy, ya' know?

"Even when we kiss. I want magic. I want to love kissing him. I don't need a big fantasy, but isn't at least THAT possible?"

When you're emotionally involved dear, yes it is. But you're no longer emotionally attached or involved with this man on an internal level it appears.

"I just feel like I want more."

Then you go get it girl. You don't sit around investing years into something that isn't making you happy or fulfilling your needs. Instead, you let that go and you free yourself up to move on and find what you want and what you need.

"We've been through so much together and are so close that I don't want to just throw it all away"

You don't have to throw it away dear. You just have to acknowledge that your feelings for him have changed and they are no longer of the romantic nature and that for you, the relationship has shifted from a romantic one to more of an intimately close friendship one.

"Should I just be trying harder or doing more to make it better?"

No dear. Do, do, doing all the time for others while ignoring your own needs, wants and fulfillment NEVER pays off. Because nothing you do - will reignite that fire and all the "doing" will only leave you feeling depleted and disappointed when your efforts don't pay off :-(

"How do you get to that place of "seeing yourself long term" together?"

You don't dear. That's not something you should have to work at getting to. It's either there or it isn't. You can't force yourself to see yourself with this man if you're not truly feeling that you will be. If you have to work at seeing yourself together, then that's a cue that the situation isn't really mean to be and the emotions just simply aren't there :-(

Anonymous said...

I love your website! Thank you for all the insight and wisdom.

A guy I was dating for about 3 months said that he didn't want to be in a serious relationship. So, I simply said OK and went silent. Two weeks later he texts me only saying "HEY". I ignored his text.

I really liked this guy and would like to have a relationship with him, but only if it is a monogamous relationship involving honesty, consistency, and trust.

When/If he contacts me again, should I respond or wait for a "grand gesture" or an apology? OR do i wait a few days to respond to his text with a casual & upbeat short sentence?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 23, 12:17 AM,
You're free to do as you please dear, but if it were me, I'd stay away for a while longer because chances are, he's circling around again so soon to test the waters and see if he can possibly morph this into a friends w/benefits situation by pretending to be genuinely interested when in reality, he's simply trying to get shallow sexual needs fulfilled.

So to filter out whether or not that's the case, you have to make him work at this. He's got to put the effort in to prove he's genuinely interested. And a lame "hey" text is not effort. If he's seeking sex only, he won't try real hard and will disappear. If he's genuinely interested, he'll realize that it's going to take more than one word to get his foot back in the door.

A man who says he doesn't want a serious relationship generally does not do a 360 degree spin on that in 14 days, ya' know? So my guess is, he'll keep his options open here by attempting to remain friendly. And then he'll manipulate that friendship and attempt to receive sex from it. And once he gets that, he'll back away again, and if you question that, he'll say, "I told you I didn't want a serious relationship." Meaning, you should've known. So don't take his communication as something serious - until HE GETS SERIOUS about his communication. And "Hey" is not serious communication - he's gotta' work harder than that and do much better than that ;-)

Anonymous said...

Love the response you gave to @Anonymous May 23, 12:17 AM. It makes so much sense. I have a question as well: what constitutes a "grand gesture?" Do you mean like flowers? Much like the anonymous above, I too have gotten the how are you, everything o.k.? texts but haven't responded to any of them. At the same time, I am not quite sure how to identify the texts/communications that I SHOULD respond to.

Not Sure

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 24, 2:25PM,
I'm not sure what the original commenter who mentioned a grand gesture was referring to, but I think flowers would constitute that. However, I'd like to point out that it's not really a grand gesture that matters here. If that happens, that's great. But what's more important is the acknowledgement of their own behavior in some way. Either through an apology for it, or a request to "talk" things over, or the man mentioning he's aware he's been a jerk lately and offering to explain himself and make amends...that type of thing.

Because when they roll around again as if nothing has happened and they don't address the big pink elephant in the room (his lack of regard for your feelings), and you let them do that and start speaking to them again...nine times out of ten, you end up with a repeat of the entire scenario. Which is why I suggest that women keep moving forward with their lives in these situations...until the man provides a substantial reason for you to stop and take notice of him again ;-)

Anonymous said...

Ms. Mirror,

I get it now!

Thank you for the great explanation,

From Anonymous May 24, 2:25PM

Anonymous said...

Hi Ms. Mirror!

So I am what you would call the proverbial do, do, doer and often get taken for granted because people (especially those close to me) come to expect me to do, do, do everything after a while. It's been extremely frustrating so I am trying to change my ways so that I don't end up do do doing every single time and end up feeling used. But it's difficult.

I recently had to have over to my home some people that I met through various jobs because we are working on a project together that I will be paying them for. We are all very friendly with one another and enjoy each other's company but also take our work very seriously so it's actually kind of a nice balance, and we understand that about one another. One of the guys is very competent, punctual, takes his job seriously, and I like all of those things about him. But he's also a really nice person and really good-looking. There is some mutual attraction going on between us, but I am keeping everything strictly professional right now at least until we are done with this current project.

Normally, I would have offered these people a meal, going out of my way to make them feel comfortable, being nice, etc. etc. But I did the exact opposite of what I normally do. I made some hot drinks, put them in a pot so they could serve themselves, and during our break, I ripped open a bag of popcorn and put half the bag in a bowl on the kitchen counter. That was it. No food, nothing else, just that. (I followed Ms. Argov's suggestions in her book.) I felt bad that that was all I was offering. But I figured it's still early days, we're all still sort of getting to know one another, and I don't have to go all out right off the bat. Right? I feel badly because they spent a lot of time travelling to my home, spent a lot of time working on the project, and when we realized that this was going to require even more work than we had initially anticipated, they agreed to come a second time just to make everything right for our deadline next week. They are going above and beyond what people normally would do without additional pay.

I am struggling with how to balance my appreciation for their hard work without turning myself into a do do doer all over again. And as I mentioned earlier, I also have a little bit of an interest in this one guy and don't want to be super nice to him yet until I have a chance to observe him a little further. Do I step it up a notch the next time they are over? Afterall, they are not obligated to spend this much time on this project without additional pay.

Anonymous said...

My mother, who is the world's expert at NOT doing anything (she is the complete opposite of me) says I should ask THEM to bring food! I literally cringed when I heard her say that not only because that is SO like her but because that is the complete opposite of what I am comfortable with. I hate asking people to bring stuff, especially when I feel like I owe them something. But my mother, who is the ultimate 'bitch,' has no problem using people, making other people work hard while she kicks back and relaxes and literally does NOTHING, and somehow I am not comfortable following her advice. Help! I am really struggling with this. Do I break open a box of frozen pizza as a step up from the last time they were over? What I really want to do is make them dinner or take them out to eat somewhere, but I have a feeling someone will step in and say don't do that! I already had to fight the urge to do that the last time they were over. We will probably be done with the project nearing dinner time, and I would feel like a bitch if I didn't offer them SOMETHING. This project will also not be the last, and I know for sure that I will need them again at some point so I just want to make sure that I handle this correctly.

The bottomline however, is that I offered these people a job, so they should be grateful to me for that as well as providing the workspace to complete the task. How would you handle this situation? Am I doing o.k. so far or was this the wrong application of Ms. Argov's idea? Oddly, the one guy that I find myself feeling attracted to, I have no problem being a 'bitch' towards, it's the other two that I want to do do do for. I don't have a logical explanation for this but that's what's going on in my head right now.


Thanks Ms. Mirror!

Yours,
Don't Like Being A 'Bitch'

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Don't Like Being A 'Bitch',
"Do I step it up a notch the next time they are over?"

In this particular situation, I'd say yes, since you're not dating them and also since they are "giving" to you first in the form of their additional time, without expectation. But I wouldn't spend 6 hours cooking for everyone. I'd purchase a nice sandwich tray from somewhere, serve chips with the sandwiches and/or purchase some macaroni or potato salad, and then I'd purchase a cake for a little sweet reward. That way, you're showing your appreciation without breaking the bank or your back in the process. You could even lay out a cheese/meat tray of some sort with crackers and spread and a bottle of wine. Something simple along those lines.

"This project will also not be the last, and I know for sure that I will need them again at some point so I just want to make sure that I handle this correctly."

Then that's what you do dear. If you know you'll be calling on them again for their free time without extra pay, then you have to appreciate what they're doing for you or they may be reluctant to go above and beyond again.

"Am I doing o.k. so far or was this the wrong application of Ms. Argov's idea?"

Well, since this isn't a dating situation, and you're calling on them again and they're complying, and you may even need them again a third time, I'd do as I stated above. Don't spend a fortune taking them all to dinner. Instead, shop local for some food you can set out for everyone. Don't make it anything extravagant though, it doesn't need to be. Shoot for some picking food and a sweet of some kind and you should be fine dear :-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you Ms. Mirror!! I am so relieved and feel so much better!! Your ideas are PERFECT, and you took all of the confusion out of the situation for me. Even my own mother could not help me and after being rather dissatisfied with her response, something inside of me told me to consult you because I knew you would understand the subtleties and have the right sense for all of this. I was right! Thank you for taking the time to consider my problem and for providing such a wonderful, thoughtful solution. I will do everything you suggest.

I have one question: the work we are putting into this project right now could be applied to other jobs, and I was wondering if providing them with additional work in the future is also a way of showing my appreciation? Because of all of the time we are putting in now, future jobs will not require any additional work to complete.

I think your above suggestions and the promise of additional work is a nice combination to show my appreciation or do you think that is too much do do doing?

Don't Like Being A 'Bitch'

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Don't Like Being A 'Bitch,'
"I think your above suggestions and the promise of additional work is a nice combination to show my appreciation or do you think that is too much do do doing?"

That'll work - and that's the way to forge healthy relationships, romantic or otherwise - with give and take. They are giving of their time to you without expectation, and you are showing them gratitude and also forging a working relationship with them - it's a win win for both parties involved.

The only time any of this becomes a problem...is when one side stops giving. Meaning, you DON'T give to those that aren't giving to you. It has to be a two way street. So if they start blowing you off, becoming irresponsible, etc. - then you don't go out of your way for them any further, ya' know? But as long as there is equal give and take, it'll be a healthy relationship.

"Wouldn't having people bring something even drinks or dessert lessen this somehow?"

No dear - let THEM treat YOU kindly as well. That's what you need to get used to here I think - letting people do nice things for YOU as well. And since this is already a nice balance of give and take, and relationships are being forged through this, let them contribute to the relationship as well. YOU don't have to DO everything all the time and you also don't have to be the only one "doing."

It works both ways - that's the beauty of a healthy relationship - it's give and take in equal balance :-)

Anonymous said...

Ms. Mirror, Thank you! I don't know why I couldn't realize this on my own, but you confirmed what I was feeling was right in my heart. And I appreciate your advice not only for the immediate but also for the future as in what to look for in a balanced relationship. I am learning so much! I am not used to healthy relationships - unfortunately, those close to me have depleted my energy and made me feel guilty if I ever even asked for a tenth of what I do for them so I think that is where my underlying problem is. I am a do, do doer because it was the only way to survive in my family, but now I understand that the rest of the world does not always operate like this. I am so happy to know that you think this is a good beginning to a good working relationship. I feel encouraged that I am on the right track and that my instincts are not completely wrong. I will also try to get more comfortable in allowing people do for ME on occasion as well. I know that's always what I understood to be a healthy and balanced relationship but since I never really had much of an opportunity to experience it and kept asking the wrong people for advice, I somehow got off track. Thank you again for your advice. You are truly wonderful!

Yours,
Don't Like Being A 'Bitch,'

Anonymous said...

MOA, So just a quick update: the project went really well and my colleagues appreciated the dinner I had prepared for them, and our working relationship has strengthened as a result as well as our personal bond and trust. I couldn't ask for a better group of people to work with. They gave it their all and so did I. My question is: the one guy I had an attraction to has been very talkative to those around me, but rather shy about speaking to me directly. However, he has been very engaged in our conversations, laughs at all my jokes, tries to sit next to me whenever he can, and has even shared personal stories. One of them was about how his grandparents got married. This was a result of him showing me (and only me) pictures of his little cousins. He says he likes to "hang out" with these toddlers even though he thought it's funny for him to say he hangsout with such young kids. But he says they're so cute that he can't help but spend time with them. Then he showed me a photo of his grandmother and then shared the romantic story of how their marriage finally happened against all odds. I know too much too soon is never a good idea so I held back on sharing too many things about myself, but he was very open and very willing to share as many personal details about himself even at this fairly early stage of working together/getting to know one another.

But since this was a working relationship, I had to pay them for the work they did no matter how friendly we were behaving towards one another. All four people cashed their checks either the day of or the day after the project ended all except for him. He has not cashed his yet, and I am wondering why. The others also have been in contact with me since the project ended, thanking me for everything, again except for him. I'm really not sure what to think at this point so I've just been silent for the whole time. I had to approach him initially for him to take on the job (because I needed his skills) but now I would sort of like to hang back to see what he'll do because I'm not sure how to read him, and I'm also not sure what to do from here.

We have a potential job in the fall together again as a group but that's about it for anything that's on the horizon in terms of getting together. What would you do MOA? If he wants to see me before the fall, he'd have to come up with some kind of excuse or reason to see me/us. Is hanging back the right thing to do here in order to determine his actual level of interest (not simply job/work related interest?) I haven't thanked him yet (in writing) for his participation in this project, but he hasn't thanked me for the dinner like the others have either (so I didn't get a chance to thank him like I did the others.) I decided not to write him first and see what he'll do, but so far he hasn't written a thing nor cashed his check, and I know he needs the money!


Yours,
Don't Like Being A 'Bitch,'

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Don't Like Being A 'Bitch,'
"What would you do MOA?"

Nothing LOL. I no longer strategize, scheme or attempt to control the speed of relationships or whether or not they materialize by "do, do, doing" things anymore. If a man wants me, he knows where to find me - and I let him come find me. If he doesn't, I don't sweat it, I move on.

Relieving yourself of needing that type of control is quite liberating too, I must say LOL ;-)

"Is hanging back the right thing to do here in order to determine his actual level of interest (not simply job/work related interest?)"

What other choice do you have really? I mean, yea, you can chase him. Or you can arrange situations where the two of you are together. But if you do that, you begin the relationship in a powerless position - you place all of the burden of keeping it going onto your shoulders, and then you end up confused because you eventually realize it's you keeping things moving along, contacting, making arrangements, etc...and you realize that you don't even actually know if the man truly likes you or not - or if he's simply hanging out with you because you keep asking and making arrangements to do so, ya' know?

I don't advocate women pursuing men because nine times out of ten, the above is exactly what happens. You fall into the lead (masculine) role while the man falls into the feminine (submissive) role - and it all ends up feeling really uncomfortable and confusing. Until months later when you confront the man and his response is, "You kept calling, you kept asking me out. I do like hanging out with you, but I never said I wanted a relationship." And then you realize you've just been living a fantasy for the last few months and this guy never really had a romantic interest in the first place :-(

As far as the money is concerned, I wouldn't bother myself with worrying about that. You paid, he has the check and what he does with it, doesn't really matter. If months go by and he doesn't cash it, you can contact him then to see if something happened.

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA, Thank you for your advice. Of all five people that were involved, he was the only one with the differing behavior. When everyone else gave me a hug, he was the only one that didn't. (And I did not initiate one because I didn't want to always be the one initiating everything.) Dont' worry, I've been silent this entire time. No calls, e-mails, texts. The ball's in his court. I have done all of those things you mentioned in the past, and I can attest it was not a good position to be in. Worst of all, I felt exhausted, and I was not happy, just as you say. It's a tricky balancing act for me though because in the project when we are working, I have to take the lead so naturally I am in the masculine role even though I'm female. I don't like it, but I don't have a choice. (Any advice btw on how to stay feminine when you are in the leader role? So far I have just led the group while we're working but tried to be myself and feminine when not working and just socializing but I'm not an expert at this and find it all kind of complicated and difficult to balance.) But for the non-work stuff, I am going to take your advice and leave it all up to him. I hate getting my hopes up, only to be disappointed so I'll just leave this whole thing alone and try not to have any expectations. I see your point about the man just going along with things but not have any actual interest. He seemed so enthusiastic about everything, but now I see that it could have just been all him "going along with things."

Thanks MOA. I will do nothing and see where it goes or not go!

Don't Like Being A 'Bitch'

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Don't Like Being A 'Bitch'
"It's a tricky balancing act for me though because in the project when we are working, I have to take the lead so naturally I am in the masculine role even though I'm female. I don't like it, but I don't have a choice. Any advice btw on how to stay feminine when you are in the leader role?"

Here's what I do, because I'm in a similar lead position in my career, and this is what I've found works for me. I wrap my head around things and separate them - I look at work and personal as two entirely different things. So at work, I do what I need to do - period. But to stay feminine, I do it with compassion, understanding and empathy as I feel those qualities are what differentiate female leaders from male leaders.

And then when work is done and my personal life is in focus, I drop the lead. I remain compassionate, empathetic and understanding, but I back down on the lead and slip into the role Mother Nature assigned me, which is the feminine role.

If you look at it like wearing two different hats - work (lead) - home (more submissive and easy going) - it helps to not mix the two inappropriately :-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks MOA! It's as if I have to try to maintain two personalities, and I am still not too skilled at this balancing act, but I will work on incorporating these more: compassionate, empathetic and understanding. I think I am a fair leader but do expect a certain standard of output. In your experience, do these feminine traits in any way affect the quality of the work your group produces? I think of Abraham Lincoln when I think of a compassionate, empathetic and understanding leader. He seemed to possess both the masculine and the feminine qualities in just the right proportions that clearly made him great. I know everyone knows that, I don't have to say that but I happened to think of him when you listed these qualities, even though he's male.

Don't Like Being A 'Bitch'

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Don't Like Being A 'Bitch'
"In your experience, do these feminine traits in any way affect the quality of the work your group produces?"

In a roundabout way, more so than directly. Meaning, when you show those traits as a leader, your team respects you as a human being, and also gets to see you in a human light. As a result, I have found that that builds almost an instantaneous trust. And that trust enables them to come to me over just about anything. And when they do, I listen. I do not speak until they are done talking. I hear them out, I do not criticize and I do not judge. When they're done, I solve what I can for them regarding business related issue and the things I can't solve...things like the dynamics of working with others, how your work experiences are making you feel, either good or bad, etc. . .I always show them compassion and understanding on and I mix that with encouragement.

And something about that mix keeps them on track, balanced and continually in forward motion. Even when I have to get firm, I leave those qualities in place - I never make someone feel dehumanized by not showing them human dignities.

And through that, I've found a way for them to feel comfortable enough with our friendship as people to come to me during difficult times and confide in me for guidance...and for them to also accept my lead. There are others they could go to and they've openly admitted they don't trust their thoughts and feelings with those individuals - they don't trust that they won't be judged for them and dehumanized by being scolded for having them.

It's weird but I feel like by doing this, I've managed to have one foot in two different places while remaining completely balanced. One is in that of management and the other is firmly planted within my team. I've managed to straddle both worlds successfully while gaining the trust of my team - and that trust enables me to always have my finger on the pulse of what's going on. I don't have to snoop around to find out for the most part because...they trust me enough to come to me authentically themselves. And when I need to call on that trust for an extra "push" from them, I'm able to do so without them resenting me for it. It's a nice give and take that has a constant ebb and flow, yet remains static at the same time. Kinda like a water buoy bobbing in the ocean. It moves one way, then the other freely....yet it always remains steadfast in the same exact place throughout all of that motion, no matter what.

Bottom line, it's all about the trust dear. When you have earned the trust of others, in reality, you have a lot of sway and influence with them. If they do not trust you, it will feel like you're pulling teeth all the time to experience any motion at all.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Ms. Mirror!! It seems as though I think about and put into practice the points you made here everyday. I have a feeling that you are a very good manager!

I also realized that as the leader, it's not about being perfect or right all the time. It's o.k. to let them see you make mistakes. I've found that my colleague's attention is much more focused on how I handle the mistake (whether I handled it with dignity and learned from it) rather than the mistake itself. The trust then grows, depending on how well you handled the recovery because if you recover well, everyone benefits from the experience.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and wisdom on this matter! And I think I can apply the same concepts to my dating life as well :)

Don't Like Being A 'Bitch'

Anonymous said...

Hey - to sum it up, new guy has been away for 2 weeks and just got back and he has not called when he says he will twice now. I have not contacted him tabla, but he has sent two texts about my favorite sports team. I replied to the first one yesterday and he said call you later, in meetings. No call and then he texted me the second time with another sports update this afternoon and I have not replied to him.

You wrote, "When they don't call when they say they will, you make them live with that decision."

Is me not responding to his last text message making him live with that? Or should I send a good to know text tomorrow? He has not made plans with me but I have been at the beach and he is in the city working. We will be at the same party on Saturday night so is that excusable for his lack of effort?

Thanks so much in advance MOA!!!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 21, 10:33 PM,
If he says he's going to call and then doesn't, and he does this repeatedly, the answer is not to contact him to keep reminding him that you exist. If you do that, then he gets the reassurance that you're sitting there waiting on him. And once he knows that, it's human nature to then take that person for granted and not be concerned. Because why would you, if you know they're sitting there waiting on you, why would you bother to jump to take action, ya' know?

The only way to get him to take action is unfortunately, to make him worry. If he's not hearing from you, and he truly cares, then he'll worry about why that is - and HE will take ACTION to contact YOU ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thank MOA....I have not contacted him once except in response to his two insignificant sports texts messages he sent this past Wednesday and Thursday, which were after not hearing from him for two straight days when he said he would call me to figure out plans. I did not hear from him yesterday at all and I did not contact him. I have to see him tonight at a mutual friend's party.....and I will act totally normal as we are not GD/BF yet, as it has only been a month and he was gone for work and vacation for two weeks for the last two weeks. He texted em the entire time on vacation sending pics of sunsets and of him doing activites etc. He called on his way from vacation area to main city where he had to work for two days before coming back home this past Wednesday. That was when he said he would call me "tomorrow (Monday) or the next day (Tuesday)" and did not, but sent me a text on Wednesday. I was driving out to the beach so I responded "Driving...call me." and he texted back "Later. In meetings." I responded "Sounds good," and he never did call but sent another text the next afternoon (Thursday) and I did not reply until I got home from a concert at 11pm. He replied ASAP to my short and mundane response and we went back and forth for two more times about baseball. That was Thursday night, and now 1am on technically Saturday morning but for me it is still Friday night as just got home and I am about to go to sleep.

I am not excited to have to see him tomorrow because I am so confused, angry, annoyed with a guy that I started to like and thought it was mutual. I do not want to call him out on his behavior but who knows if he will even talk to me, as at this point I don't know what he is capable of. OH...FYI...he is 48 years old and I am 35, so this crap is so immature it nuts.

What should I do MOA? As your opinion is one I sincerely respect very much!!

Thanks again for taking the time to help all of us women get through this thing called dating, as you are a truely knowledgeable source.

Best,
CONFUSED CHICK FROM LAST POST

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 23, 1:04 AM,
"What should I do MOA?"

Listen to your gut dear. Stay calm, present and withing yourself - NOT your emotions. Approach the situation using logic and then act accordingly. Have fun, be happy and be yourself at this event. I can't tell you what to do because I don't know what will happen.

But I do know that if you listen to your gut and you use logic instead of emotion...you'll make the right decision :-)

Anonymous said...

Dear Ms. Mirror and @Ladies,

I'm updating in regards to the work project I had earlier this summer. I knew that the guy I had a little bit of interest in has to be out of state this fall for a training session. But because we had so much fun working on the first project, he said he might be able to get a flight back and hoped that the next one wouldn't require as much extra time as the last one so that he can participate, and basically he was to consider whether he'd come back just for this project. The whole summer went by without any contact between us (he did finally cash his check after nearly two months) until I needed to get my work group together so I had no choice but to contact everyone and ask them to confirm. I think part of me was not all that hopeful that this guy would actually sneak out of this important training session just for this job, and I also didn't want to pressure him unnecessarily, so I ended up giving him an easy out which I maybe shouldn't have by saying "let me know if you or someone you know would be interested in working on this project." While the other four got back to me the same day, the guy I had an interest in got back to me after nearly two weeks only to say that he can't take part :( His reply was: "Thanks again for the job! I can't take part this time because of training, but I'm sure the others would know of people that are able to. Thanks again!"

That was it. He probably also did a little arithmetic and figured out that it would cost him more to participate in this project than it would pay him so he decided to pass. Now I have to look for someone else with those skills. It's a pain, but I'm mainly bummed because it tells me that he's not interested (romantically.) At least not enough to spend/lose money, go out of his way, etc. Is this how you would see it/interpret it? I know he's mentioned that it's not easy to leave the training session as they keep close tabs on who's there & who's not. I can understand that... and I'm mostly upset with myself for getting my hopes even slightly up.

I guess my question is when and how should I reply to his message? If he were just a guy I had no interest in, I wouldn't fret over this so much, I would probably just say "No problem, good luck with xxx" but since I am, I'm not sure I should respond at all. But I'd still like to leave the doors open for any possible future collaborations (though I am aware he does not mention anything) and not seem like I'm upset over his turning down this project.

Thank you.

Yours,
Don't Like Being a Bitch

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Don't Like Being a Bitch,
Well dear, this was cute, it made me laugh...but I'm going to point out to you the EXACT moment - that women begin adjusting their behavior towards possible self-destruction LOL. It's here:

"If he were just a guy I had no interest in, I wouldn't fret...I would probably just say "No problem, good luck with xxx"...but since I am [interested]...I'd still like to leave the doors open"

Do you see where I'm going with this dear? Stop, breath...and catch yourself - because you're teetering on the edge of being the one who's about to do all the work here to make something happen or keep this going LOL ;-)

Do you see what I'm saying? I'm saying that because you're interested...you're about to change your behavior. If he likes you the way you are (even if just as a person), then why change your behavior for him? If you do that, and you change the way you interact with him...he's going to instantly know something is up, and you're going to give yourself away here - and that could backfire LOL.

Do what you would normally do dear. Do NOT start changing your behavior simply because you're interested in him. He likes you as a person the way you are. If he starts to see "odd" responses or responses that are "different" in some way, his spidey senses may start firing...and he may pull back from what he could possibly misinterpret as "danger, danger - crazy lady syndrome about to take hold - abort, abort" LOL.

It's the precise moment women drift into thinking that if they work harder, say more, do more...he'll notice. Yea - he will. But he may not interpret that as a "good" thing LOL. His past experiences with other women will signal to him that somethings changed here...and he may instantly deem that change with you to be impending "crazy lady syndrome" ya' know?

So don't do that. Don't change who you are. Don't change how you'd respond. Don't change your behavior at all. He likes you as a person the way you are. If he's interested, when time permits him, he'll circle back. Don't get your hopes up. Keep this friendly and professional for now. Stay true to yourself, keep your behaviors normal...and give this plenty of time to grow organically dear, without new behaviors or responses in place to influence it. Keep it real.

You don't have to DO anything to leave that door open dear. It's ALREADY open. Even if you don't respond at all and you say nothing...because you've last spoken on friendly, professional terms...he will have absolutely NO reason to back out or away from you. He will have no reason, personally with you, to not accept future work with you.

So you don't need to "DO" anything here. It's all already lined up and in place. Just leave it be, let it grow, and see what, if anything, it becomes eventually.

Because I will warn you, if you start acting strange or responding differently for no apparent reason, you may sabotage this entire thing before it ever even gets started LOL. Women do it all the time, men do it as well. People become eager and caught up in the moment, they start worrying a lot about what the other individual thinks of them unnecessarily. And then they start adjusting things that they think are wrong or that they're doing wrong...and before you know it, they're self-destructing...and the person they had their eye on is left thinking, "What the hell happened there. Everything was fine. I thought they were such a great person."

Don't change a thing dear - he likes you just the way you are. You don't have to try harder. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to go out of your way. Everything with him is fine right now. Let that be. Don't start tinkering with it, or it could all suddenly go horribly wrong LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

Dear Ms. Mirror,

Thank you for all of your good warnings! When you said you thought it was cute and made you laugh, it made me wonder though if I'm missing something or am too naive about something? I know I'm not the most savvy or experienced dater, but if I am way behind on some basic knowledge, that worries me.

Out of the five in the work group, this guy's behavior is the only one that differs from the rest. His circumstances also differ (such as his being out of state many times) so that affects his availability obviously, but I also wonder if he behaves differently because he IS interested or somehow somewhere he's picked-up that I'm interested (I sure hope not)? And that's why he takes his good ol' time with everything?

I haven't actually thanked him yet (in writing) for all he did for the last project so I feel I should at least do that. Out of the five, he did the most work for the same pay and spent the most time, energy and effort for which I never got a chance to thank him for officially because I decided to just leave things alone at the time since we were all exhausted after working so hard anyways. I was hoping that he'd say something first like thanks for the dinner but since he did not, I didn't contact him either. So I feel I could say something now, even though his last message does not really require a response, just to thank him for all he did, wish him well and get it over with, on my end! My responding to him would also be for my peace of mind so I can stop thinking about this and move on, hopefully without setting off his 'spidey' senses along the way!

I honestly don't like the situation I find myself in because I kind of feel like I asked a guy out and got turned down. Even though I know that this was a work-related invitation, it somehow feels the same. Does it matter to the guy whether you are inviting them for a work-related project or out on a date? Do they view it the same, as the woman being the pursuer and asking them/inviting them? Does it turn men off and come across as the woman pursuing, even if it's work-related? I feel uncomfortable right now because I feel like the guy that just got rejected. It feels unnatural to me and am not quite sure how to handle it from here - I am trying hard not to become a tinkerer!

I hope I am not still teetering on the edge here trying to come up with reasons to contact him. If I do contact him one final time, I plan to keep my contact limited to these two points:

1.) show my gratitude for all he did
2.) wish him well with the training

THAT'S IT! No questions, no stirring up the pot looking for goodies or crumbs, & definitely no future talk! But inside, I do feel a little bit like the crazy woman that you warn me about. Outwardly, I've managed to stay quiet over the summer, but I still think I jumped the gun when I contacted them all. I should have waited to see what he would say in regards to the matter of his returning for this project, but I was also getting anxious to get the group organized to begin the work. So I felt a little trapped.

Anonymous said...

Also, to see if he is genuinely interested, I am considering simply hiring someone else for future projects so that I don't have to keep contacting him and asking him for his help. What do you think?

You mentioned a few times that he likes me just the way I am, but I'm not so sure! I would be happy if that were true, but if he really did like me just as I am, don't you think he would have made something happen by now? Unfortunately, the timing was off this summer because he was away the entire time. (He had to leave for a different project in another state soon after our first project ended.) And now he is away again, so nothing can be started. I also feel like the few brief meetings we had at the beginning of the summer won't be enough to sustain his interest over this long stretch of time. I feel like I am quickly becoming but a distant memory to him. I will be honest, this is all driving me a little insane, but I've stayed strong so far. As far as I know, I haven't displayed any outwardly crazy lady signs yet! And I don't know if I've passed his 'spidey' tests but hopefully I have. I have to say, this takes a lot of vigilance and self-discipline!

When you say everything with him is fine right now, do you mean that things are progessing the way they should under these circumstances? I really haven't done anything or much at all, other than invite him to join in on the first project and pay and provide dinner. So it's also not going anywhere (it seems that way to me, perhaps you see things differently) and especially since he's now turned down this project, it feels like it all just came to a screeching halt. And who even knows when I'll see him next? Oddly, this NOT doing anything takes a tremendous amount of effort. To me, it feels as though to NOT do takes more effort than to just do!

Yours,
Don't Like Being a Bitch

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Sep 6, 2:49 AM,
"When you said you thought it was cute and made you laugh, it made me wonder though if I'm missing something or am too naive about something? I know I'm not the most savvy or experienced dater, but if I am way behind on some basic knowledge, that worries me."

No dear, it's a very common situation. And it took me forever to actually recognize it, recognize when I was doing it myself. It's a very subtle moment, but it's also one with great impact. Bottom line though, just catch yourself when you feel like you have to "DO" something to keep a man's attention. Just stop and really think about that, about whether or not it's really necessary - before you actually do it is all. Because once you do it, once you jump and you start to "do, do, do" and you change your behavior for the man, your schedule, your lifestyle, etc....it's becomes a vicious cycle. And next thing ya' know, you're running around doing everything, exhausting yourself emotionally.

"And that's why he takes his good ol' time with everything?"

Anything's possible dear ;-)

"I kind of feel like I asked a guy out and got turned down"

Please understand dear...that's all in your head. Your feelings may be real, but the situation never happened. The event never happened. You never asked him out, he never turned you down. These are feelings you're creating within yourself, they are not feelings that an actual event created, ya' know? So let them go, let go of those feelings.

"Does it matter to the guy whether you are inviting them for a work-related project or out on a date?"

No, work is professional - dating is romantic...two different things. But because you're holding onto a feeling of "rejection" here (because you got your hopes up high, only to have them dashed), it's manifesting insecurities...that feeling of rejection is bringing insecurities to the surface. But again, please realize...this is not a dating situation, you did not ask him out, he did not refuse to date you. That's the reality dear, so recognize that all of this "stuff" going on inside of you right now...it's not real. You may be feeling it, but real situations did not create those feelings...those feelings were created from imaginations in the mind - the fantasy - ya' know? Stay in the reality dear, you'll feel much better here. And the reality is that all is well. He has not rejected you :-)

"I am trying hard not to become a tinkerer...I do feel a little bit like the crazy woman that you warn me about"

Don't do it dear - don't act on that. NEVER take ACTION when your emotions are in turmoil. If you do, it will be a purely emotional response and most likely, it will only exacerbate the situation. Understand that this is all ego based right now for you. Meaning, your ego suffered a bit of rejection. In reality, that never happened, but in your mind, that's how you're interpreting this. So now, the ego is seeking to feel better. It's seeking validation and acknowledgment. And it's deceiving you into thinking that if you receive that, it will feel better, you will feel better and all will be well. That's not true. Anytime your actions are directed towards feeding the ego, you will only find temporary comfort. The ego is deceptive. It will lead you down the garden path and fool you, lull you into temporary relief.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

When the reality is that you don't need this man's acknowledgment - what you need is to not be so hard on yourself. Don't punish yourself, don't beat yourself up. It's creating a lot of negative feelings for you. Feelings that are not based in reality, but on the fantasy in the mind (of him sacrificing for you and returning for this project).

Separate the two - the fantasy versus the reality - and you'll find peace and acceptance of yourself....which will "free" you from the "trappings" of the mind :-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Don't Like Being a Bitch,
My apologies, I didn't see the second half of your comment above.

"Also, to see if he is genuinely interested, I am considering simply hiring someone else for future projects so that I don't have to keep contacting him and asking him for his help. What do you think?"

No, don't do that. Keep work - work...and romantic - romantic. Right now, this is not romantic, this is professional....so just keep it that way and maintain that.

"You mentioned a few times that he likes me just the way I am, but I'm not so sure! I would be happy if that were true, but if he really did like me just as I am, don't you think he would have made something happen by now?"

Well again dear, you're blurring the lines here...fantasy versus reality. I said he likes you as a person. Liking someone romantically is an entirely different issue. And we don't know if he likes you romantically yet. So we can't assume that, and we shouldn't start testing that...until an actual situation arises that signals there's a romantic interest. So what I'm saying is that he likes you as a person. Keep that connection in place, don't tinker with it, and see if anything romantic then grows from that professional connection organically.

"I will be honest, this is all driving me a little insane"

THIS is not driving you insane dear - YOU are driving YOURSELF insane. Meaning, this is all happening in your mind. In reality, nothing has happened to make you feel this way. In your mind, you have a romantic interest...so now, everything you're reading into the situation is coming from a romantic place (fantasy). When in reality, this is a professional connection at this time and nothing more, so your perspective on it should remain purely professional (reality).

"When you say everything with him is fine right now, do you mean that things are progessing the way they should under these circumstances?"

I'm looking at this based on the reality dear. I'm not reading anything romantic into it. I'm saying that right now, he likes you as a person, and he is willing to work with you professionally in the future. The professional relationship is in tact, and a friendship has grown. The friendship is also currently in tact, and the professional relationship is also in tact. Everything in reality is in tact.

But you're reading into this romantically, and there's nothing romantic here in tact - yet. But because you're reading into it romantically, if you start to take action based on that romantic interest....THAT is when you risk destroying the professional relationship in place, and possibly the friendship as well. And if that happens, you destroy all chances of the professional/friendship relationship leading to an actual romantic one.

"So it's also not going anywhere (it seems that way to me, perhaps you see things differently)"

I see this as having "future potential" - there are "possibilities" that exist here. That doesn't mean it's going to lead to a romantic relationship. That simply means that right now, everything is in a state of suspended "possibility"....which is a lot better than blowing it up and ending up with NO possibility at all, ya' know? And if left alone to grow, in the future, when another project becomes available...there is a "possibility" this could lead somewhere. But there's also the possibility that will never happen. So keep both feet on the ground and remain realistic about the situation.

Anonymous said...

Ms. Mirror, I have to say that you are quite amazing. You understand me better than I understand myself! I don't know how in the world I ended up blurring the lines in my mind and digging myself into this little ditch, but you made things crystal clear for me. I'm somewhat relieved now. Thank you!

I know you said I could even not respond at all and things would still in reality be fine, but do you know the reason why I want to respond to his message? It's because I don't want him to think that I'm disappointed (because the truth is that I am.) At the bottom of all of this is probably the fear that if I don't say something in return, he'll then think that I'm sulking or mad at him, and I don't want to leave him with that impression. Sure, I'd like to express my gratitude for all he did too, but my guess is that it's mostly because I want to make sure that I leave things on friendly terms whether or not that's necessary. If I was 100% confident, I probably would not respond. I would just leave the ball in his court to contact me for future job opportunities and just let this be. But since I'm not 100% confident and even if he were a guy I had no interest in, I would STILL respond with SOMETHING, simply to ensure and reassure both myself and the other person that we're all good (even though in reality, everything could already be all good.)

So now I don't know whether to leave this immediately or pretend to write a note to a guy I have no interest in and replace his name with this guy's name at the last minute. (That way I'll know for sure that I won't be writing anything dumb!)

It's sort of embarassing how just a little interest in a guy can easily steer me off track towards crazy woman land! It's annoying! It really is. For instance, I was so happy that he finally used my name in his message (I know, pathetic), and I'm convinced that he finally used my name because I left things alone for the WHOLE summer, and when I did contact him, I gave him an 'out' from this project, so he finally felt 'safe' to use my name without me turning into velcro. Well, he has no idea how much effort it took me to not contact him and how much effort it takes for me to not write more than a few words each time we communicate. I've been the crazy lady before, so the NOT doing still takes a lot of effort for me. And just as you warned, I know first-hand just how horribly a perfectly good thing can go!

Anonymous said...

I've reflected on a different situation where the roles were reversed where it was not a professional interaction but a personal one. A guy invited me out to his place, but I had to decline his offer because of work and wrote a response similar to the work guy's message, thanking him, etc. for his invitation but explaining as nicely as I could why I couldn't go. And almost immediately I got a response back from him saying that he was sorry I couldn't join him, good luck on my xxx, and that he's looking forward to seeing me soon followed by lots of exclamation points ! ! ! ! ! I remember wondering why my attraction for him plummeted upon reading his response. It might've been that he was too enthusiastic, and I was reassured of his acceptance of my decision to not go and could then easily move onto other things in my life having the reassurance that he wasn't upset with me. Converesly, if he hadn't responded to my message, I would have probably thought about my own response more and maybe my attraction to him would have stayed intact.

As for my dilemma right now, would it be so bad to just say: "Thx for all you did last time and good luck with xxx!" Could you see this blowing up in my face somehow? I'm not strong enough or confident enough in myself to just leave it alone right now. And I'd feel guilty if I didn't thank him, even if that might not be absolutely necessary. I'm worried that maybe I am overcompensating the other way and not expressing my gratitude which could be mistaken for arrogance or taking things for granted...obviously I don't want him to think that. I'm shooting for something in the middle here, not rude but not too enthusiastic either.

I will read and re-read all your advice here too to let it all sink-in and absorb. At least at this point, thanks to you, I haven't YET done the any of the crazy lady things I could be doing. Thank goodness! Things could be a lot worse if I had stuck to my old ways, so I guess you could call that progress!

Yours,
Don't Like Being a Bitch

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Don't Like Being a Bitch,
"do you know the reason why I want to respond to his message?...It's because I don't want him to think that I'm disappointed (because the truth is that I am.)"

I understand that dear, but here's the thing. That again, would be another example of you being willing to change your normal behavior because you like him. You're assuming he'd care or notice if you were disappointed. I don't want to burst your bubble here dear, and I'm not trying to be mean, but the simple truth is that he doesn't know you're interested....so he's not monitoring your every move. He's not reading into every communication. He's not hanging waiting for a response. This was a professional communication, you asked, he can't do it, he thanked you - and that's it.

He's not worrying or wondering or waiting ya' know? So if you don't respond, he's not going to be like, "OMG, now she must be disappointed in me." Only someone reading into it romantically would interpret it like that. He's probably not reading into it romantically because he has no idea ANY of this is going on inside you, ya' know?

"At the bottom of all of this is probably the fear that if I don't say something in return, he'll then think that I'm sulking or mad at him, and I don't want to leave him with that impression."

Well again, only someone reading into the entire thing from a romantic perspective would jump to that conclusion. Picture it like this. If Bob the copy room guy makes copies all day and no one treats him special for it, they just come in, get their copies, thank him and leave...or if they can't make it in that day, they come get them when they can.

Now, do you think that when someone can't come to get their copies off of Bob...they jump through hoops to apologize to him, or communicate heavily with him about when they will pick their copies up? Nope. They leave Bob hanging and Bob probably doesn't give it a second thought at all. Why? Because it's business, and in business that's the way things go. No one gets all worked up about it, no one overcompensates for it, no one loses sleep over it and life goes on. No one takes it personally and Bob doesn't get all upset or sad about the fact that Rob didn't make it down to get his copies today or call him to let him know he couldn't.

The only time Bob WOULD get upset about Rob not picking up his copies or calling him is if Bob liked Rob LOL, ya' know? But right now, Bob and Rob are not involved romantically, so none of this is taken personally and no one is reading into anything or waiting for a response so that their feelings aren't hurt.

Does that make sense?

"I want to make sure that I leave things on friendly terms"

Things are on friendly terms dear. There was no fight, no harsh words exchanged - nothing to indicate otherwise.

"But since I'm not 100% confident and even if he were a guy I had no interest in, I would STILL respond with SOMETHING, simply to ensure and reassure both myself and the other person that we're all good (even though in reality, everything could already be all good.)"

Well, that's overcompensating dear...that's the "do, do, do" trap that women get stuck in, thinking that if they're not "do, do, doing" something constantly to maintain a relationship...it will simply fall apart in the blink of an eye.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

You are free to contact him if you like dear. But you must also realize that there's not an immediate need to do so, and that even if you do, you may still not get the reaction that you're secretly wishing for. So don't be disappointed if you do contact him and he replies with a simple, "Thanks, call me for the next one and if I'm available, I'll join in on the project." Because that may be all you're going to get here, so don't get overly excited and your hopes up on to then be disappointed at the result.

"It's sort of embarassing how just a little interest in a guy can easily steer me off track towards crazy woman land!"

If you sense yourself going there dear, don't give into that - stand strong, and you won't embarass yourself in front of HIM then LOL ;-)

"I've been the crazy lady before"

I sense that you keep revisiting the situation in the hopes of coming up for a justification to try and control this situation by forcing "more" out of it LOL. Breath dear, just breath.

"I know first-hand just how horribly a perfectly good thing can go!"

Well then you may have heard this before dear. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again - and expecting different results LOL ;-)

"would it be so bad to just say: "Thx for all you did last time and good luck with xxx!" Could you see this blowing up in my face somehow?"

As I said dear, you're free to do as you please, and I see that you're digging for excuses and justification to contact him to try to control the situation LOL. And no, that probably wouldn't be so bad. But can it blow up it your face? Yea, if you can't control your actions LOL. You're already having a hard time doing so, so if he responds and you two enter a discussion...it could quickly turn into an "open mouth, insert foot" situation because you're trying so hard and can't seem to control your behavior LOL. (You said that dear, not me LOL - you said, "I know first-hand just how horribly a perfectly good thing can go! I've been the crazy lady before.")

"And I'd feel guilty if I didn't thank him"

You do not have to "do, do, do" for people all the time dear and give so much of yourself in order to be accepted, loved and appreciated. Just remember that.

"I haven't YET done the any of the crazy lady things I could be doing"

I feel you slipping away dear LOL..slipping into seeking an excuse and lots of unnecessary justifications to jump in and try to control and manipulate the situation to lead to something "more." Stay with us here LOL.

"Things could be a lot worse if I had stuck to my old ways, so I guess you could call that progress!"

Just remember..."do, do, doing" isn't necessary in order to be appreciated and accepted. You have nothing to overcompensate for, and you have nothing to repair here. The reality is that...this didn't turn out as you had hoped, so now you're thinking about ways to turn that around - which as you already know, can lead to a big kerplewie LOL ;-) So just give that some thought first before you take action.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Ms. Mirror. You know, you are as funny as you are wise. I couldn't help laughing as I read through your comments. I'm beginning to see how silly I sound. I appreciate your kindness & patience and all of the thought you put into responding to my questions. As I said, this isn't easy for me because do, do doing is tough to undo especially when you've spent a lifetime functioning this way!

I honestly don't know what to do so I outlined the options/possible outcomes to make it easier to decide:

Option A.) Respond
Possibility No. 1 He doesn't respond, it ends there, maybe I feel slightly dumb after sending it, but I got to thank him so I feel less guilty (a plus); maybe upset that he didn't respond (a minus), but I won't really know til I get there -
Possibility No. 2 He responds, with a similar message to the one you wrote, so once again I find myself in a situation where I have to figure out if I respond or not (I would like a break from this at some point!)

Option A Result: In either case, I have to let him know of the next job opportunity.

Option B.) Don't Respond
Possibility No. 1 He never contacts me on his own ever again so I'm feeling a little guilty that I didn't thank him
Possibility No. 2 He does contact me for whatever reason so I'm happy about that

Option B Result: I still have to contact him for the next job opportunity.

Am I missing anything? You know what, this didn't really help because either way, it's still ME that has to contact him for the next project :( Whether I respond to his last message, it still means that I'm the one that has to contact him for the next job, so that part literally doesn't change. So what would I really accomplish by responding? Not much, it seems. I'd get to thank him and maybe reappear on his radar/mind temporarily, and I'm not so sure that's worth it since I've already verbally thanked him, well, sort of...

"The only time Bob WOULD get upset about Rob not picking up his copies or calling him is if Bob liked Rob LOL, ya' know? But right now, Bob and Rob are not involved romantically, so none of this is taken personally and no one is reading into anything or waiting for a response so that their feelings aren't hurt. Does that make sense?"

Yes, it helped put things into perspective for me and especially made clear the business vs. romantic. So does this mean that asking him to participate in a future project will not be misconstrued as asking him out? I don't have to worry about that at all, right?

(cont.)

Anonymous said...

I'm also glad you pointed out something that I hadn't even thought of until now: that he most likely has no clue that all of this is going on in my head so he's probably not waiting, wondering or worried which makes me feel more relaxed. I see I need to watch what I assume. I am going to re-read all of your comments here and get some more laughs out of this before I decide what to do. The most likely scenario is that he probably won't bother to respond to my message. He takes forever to write back anyways, so I'd be very surprised if he writes back at all. And you're right, I could end up blowing this up later, if he does happen to respond, and I get carried away somehow. Either way, it's going to be me that will have to contact him for the next job (which sucks but this is work so I am reluctantly willing to initiate) so responding to his message won't really change anything by any significant degree. I understand that much now.

Since you said there's no urgency in responding, I'm going to take a little more time to give this some more thought as I try to remember to breathe (sometimes I forget.) What I've been learning from all this so far is that I need to get more comfortable with being true to myself. So much of what I do in my life is based on what I think I need to be doing as opposed to what I truly want to be doing. At times I end up losing my true self quite easily. So I'm going to take your suggestion and take some time before taking action.

"I see that you're digging for excuses and justification to contact him to try to control the situation LOL."

I bet you're right about that. I keep telling myself I'd feel less guilty if I could only thank him, and I would like to thank him, but if he's sharp like you are Ms. Mirror (btw, yes he is sharp so responding here is kind of risky for me in that he could see right through it), he might also see what you're seeing which is that it is an excuse for me to stay in touch, to continue all this, whatever this is...

(cont.)

Anonymous said...

I think at the very bottom of all of this is that do, do, doing, at least for me, is a way to camoflauge what I believe is lacking in me. It's a way for me to feel better about myself for what I feel is missing in me or am told is missing in me by others, particularly those close to me who tend to be the ones to hurt me the most. Whether I am lacking something and need to make up for it by doing all the time is a reality or just a part of all of the 'abuse' I suffer, somehow I hope that people will like me better if I do more for them. Less is more sounds so clever and practical, but it is the most difficult thing for me to achieve personally. Because it means people will see what I truly am without all the frills and extras to confuse and diffuse. I feel pretty 'naked' when I do less. I know I don't yet have the courage or the confidence to have people see me for who I truly am. Maybe at the core of all of this, that is what I am really dealing with here. It isn't even about this guy that I seem to like so much for whatever reason. He just happened to be there as I was dealing with these deeper issues within myself. Well, o.k., I guess I do like him too even though I still don't know all that much about him and what he's really like... Anywho, I realize I was seeing things from just one angle, and maybe that is what was so funny to you. I can see some of that now because it's all starting to sound kind of silly to me too. I created my own little world in record time and for a while, that felt like reality to me, so yeah...

Even if I do end up responding to him, I'm going to keep my expectations low and just be happy that you think that everything is fine right now and that this has "future potential." I'm actually quite happy with that, so thank you Ms. Mirror! I don't know where I'd be or what I'd do without you. I'm so grateful for all of your support and for all of your wisdom. And thank you ladies too. I've learned a great deal from reading your stories as well and look forward to your updates!

With much appreciation,
Don't Like Being A Bitch

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Don't Like Being a Bitch,
"So does this mean that asking him to participate in a future project will not be misconstrued as asking him out? I don't have to worry about that at all, right?"

No, it's strictly professional at this point.

"Since you said there's no urgency in responding, I'm going to take a little more time to give this some more thought as I try to remember to breathe"

Well...guess what dear? The time to respond has PASSED LOL. You did it, you exerted self-discipline and you made it past the hurdle. If you were to respond now, this many days later...that may strike him as odd. So at this point, you CAN'T respond because you don't want him to think it took almost a week or more to say "thank you " LOL.

So that's it dear - no more worrying, no more fretting...the time has passed. You can relax, all is well and there's nothing you need to do here. You'e talked your way through it and you've reach the point of no return - it's too late to respond anyway LOL.

It's much better to leave them guessing anyway - it uses the Law of Scarcity to your advantage and it also creates a bit of mystery for him ;-)

"somehow I hope that people will like me better if I do more for them"

Think about it dear - has that ever really worked? Try this...write down on a tablet in two columns, the times you've gone out of your way for others, and in the second column, write down the payoff received for that - good or bad - what was the outcome. And once you're done...see if "do, do, doing" has really ever paid off for you, or simply gotten you taken for granted instead.

"people will see what I truly am without all the frills and extras to confuse and diffuse"

You don't want people to be confused about you dear, and you don't want their image of you to be diffused, and you don't want them to think you're disingenuous because of all the frills...people WANT to see who you TRULY are. You're hiding that from them with all the smoke and mirrors going on, ya' know?

"I realize I was seeing things from just one angle, and maybe that is what was so funny to you."

It was cute dear. I wasn't laughing at you, I was laughing with you...because I've been that girl too myself and there's a sense of innocence with that that's endearing ;-)

"I created my own little world in record time and for a while, that felt like reality to me, so yeah..."

We've all been there, trust me.

"Even if I do end up responding to him"

I actually think it's too late for that. I think the time for response has passed. If you do that now, it may seem odd to him. Much better to leave this lay as it is dear...and simply wait for the next project to come along and see what happens then :-)

Anonymous said...

"Well...guess what dear? The time to respond has PASSED LOL. You did it, you exerted self-discipline and you made it past the hurdle. If you were to respond now, this many days later...that may strike him as odd. So at this point, you CAN'T respond because you

don't want him to think it took almost a week or more to say "thank you " LOL."

Lol, I was actually kind of wondering about that myself..! Wow, I can't believe that while I was busy going back and forth inside my head, the decision had been made by default! I wasn't expecting you to say it's too late even though I wondered about the timing

myself, lol. I was too focused on responding!

Well, am I glad I didn't just go shooting off an e-mail in one of my weaker, crazy lady moments. I could have screwed this all up before I even gave it a chance. It's just funny that while I was busy wracking my brains out trying to figure out what to do, I

COMPLETELY missed the window of opportunity. (btw, would three days have been o.k.?) My plan was to mirror him so I was looking at this Sunday possibly... It would already be ten days today so Sunday would have been even weirder (he wrote me on Labor

Day.) I agree it would be a little odd to suddenly hear a "Thanks" from me now after this much time has passed. And even though I was aiming for Sunday, I actually THOUGHT about and was ABOUT TO send something off even as early as yesterday since I

already had handy a few versions of my response all typed-up and ready to go! I was THAT close to sending something off, LOL.

BUT I DIDN'T. THANK GOODNESS.

"So that's it dear - no more worrying, no more fretting...the time has passed. You can relax, all is well and there's nothing you need to do here. You'e talked your way through it and you've reach the point of no return - it's too late to respond anyway LOL."

It's just so funny that I spent an awful lot of time and energy struggling with this, all for not sending him a note in the end, lol. But you know what, I'm kind of liking the way this worked itself out even though at first I was surprised and was feeling a little like I

was out of a job, lol.

It was definitely tough to sit tight and NOT make a move and really hear & process everything you were saying, but it was also something that I needed to do to change my usual pattern of doing too much (which I later end up regretting anyways.) Because I

trust you & your advice, and I also acknowledge that I'm not particularly good at all of this yet, I knew that the best way for me to learn was to just follow your suggestions until I start to get the hang of things. I know there are no guarantees in life, but I'm not

really looking for a guarantee at this point (i.e. for him to take some sort of romantic interest in me.) I'm just looking for a better way of doing things, so I'm glad I stuck with this although I will admit I almost stumbled a few times! It was probably your honesty

& sense of humor that helped me get through this and avoid the usual disasters and prevented crazy lady from making a full appearance.

(cont.)

Anonymous said...

I'm relieved to know that I don't have to do a thing now. And I am ACTUALLY O.K. with this even though a small part of me still wonders whether I should thank him or how I should thank him the next opportunity I get.

The Law of Scarcity has always intrigued me (in theory, I don't have much experience doing it.) I'm already starting to feel a little more sophisticated, he he. I'm usually not particularly mysterious and make myself fairly accessible so I'm kind of excited & curious

to see how this all works in real life. Because the 'old me' would have for sure sent something, odd timing or not. Then the guy would inevitably say to himself, "hmm, she likes me," and then place me on the back burner and soon forget about me. Is the Law of

Scarcity useful in professional situations as well? I've always wondered how that works. I know they do that with products all the time. Well, it's possible work guy already knows about the Law of Scarcity and has been using it on me because he usually takes at

least two days to respond, and this last time, he took almost TWO WEEKS which actually struck ME as odd because after a certain point, I wasn't expecting a response from him anymore and was beginning to accept the fact that I may just have to find a

replacement. When I did finally receive a response from him however, I was kind of suspicious because it was two weeks and also because it was friendlier than usual. Even though HE'S slow getting back to me, he most likely was expecting a response from me

just because I always respond. So my NOT responding is definitely out of the ordinary and probably unexpected (even if we only have a professional relationship at this time) only because it's not what he's used to. He took his good ol' time letting me know if he

was going to participate in this project and at the last acceptable minute said he can't AND didn't even bother to find a replacement when I specifically asked about that in my message so responding to him would have been "too nice." Recently, I've been

getting kind of tired of being "too nice" anyways so I am beginning to like this way much better even though the first week was very, very uncomfortable for me. Now I am surprisingly o.k. with not contacting him. I suppose that with your help, I succeeded in

sufficiently distracting myself while I let enough time pass by to get me to a point where I didn't feel as much urgency to respond anymore. I just didn't realize I was doing that.

Well, hopefully at some point he'll wonder why I didn't respond. And maybe this will give him the space he needs to take some action of his own, if he wants to.

And even if he might be bothered that I didn't respond, hopefully he will just figure that I'm either busy or o.k. with his decision not to participate. I hadn't even thought of that possibility until now, the fact that he may just make up or imagine a suitable reason

on his own so I don't always have to do, do, do. As I reflected back on this situation, I realize now that NOT responding is being true to myself. And hey, if Law of Attraction happens to go to work for me at the same time, hurrah for me! That's icing on the cake.

But I realized that I didn't want to always be do, do, doing with him all of the time just to meet some "business etiquette" requirement I think I'm supposed to meet. I've already done enough and don't want to overdo and perhaps the best way to thank him for

last time would simply be to invite him for a future work project if another opportunity comes along. Would you agree that that would be thanking him via action and that should be good enough in this situation?

"No, it's strictly professional at this point."

That is good to know! I'll have to make sure I don't abuse this though, but I think I'm capable of that now!

(cont.)

Anonymous said...

One last question that's been sort of bugging me all along: Do you think I actually discouraged him by giving him the out? Did I do, do, do when I gave him that option? Because based on our last conversation in regards to his returning, it sounded like he wanted

to make every effort to come back. And I feel like I tinkered with that... What would you have done Ms. Mirror? Would you have waited until you heard back from him and maybe just had a replacement ready, or simply asked him if it looks like he can come

back without giving him an out?

***

Thank you Ms. Mirror. I thought I was taking baby steps, but suddenly I feel like I'm flying. This feels pretty amazing. I've learned so much about myself in just the last week.

You are incredible.

With many thanks,
Don't Like Being A Bitch

Anonymous said...

Hello MOA it's (LondonBaybeh) me again, coming to you with another scenario, God I feel I'll be a relationship expert by the time I'm 25 with all these questions I come to you with LOL...hopefully the last question :)

I have just recently (last week) met up with my ex boyfriend who basically begged me to meet up with him as he wanted to "talk with me", at this meeting he expressed that he wanted us to try again with a relationship with me. Obviously I wanted the same thing but told him that we should not rush into a relationship as I would have to feel him out to see if he was serious first.

Ever since this meeting last week, there has been no effort on his part to try win me over, not a single phone call, no FaceTime, no arrangement for another date, just extremely boring text chatter, and I mean, me asking him questions and him responding with one word answers EVERYDAY. It's driving me nuts because I feel like maybe it's something wrong with me, maybe I should also make an effort and initiate the phone call or arrange a date if I want us to work this time, however I feel like that translates to me do do doing and overcompensating for his laziness.

This is making me overthink everything because of his lack of effort and I feel lonely and less than special within this thing that him and I are doing.

MOA I would really appriciate your sound advice in regards to how distant he is, should I act just as distant? My friend says if I act as distant as him he might think I'm not interested and pull back even more, and I see her point but I'm exhausted In beeing the one that has to push conversations along everyday...how do I handle this? Do I tell him to change this?....please help me Mirror

Thank you, #LondonBaybeh xo

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@LondonBaybeh,
"my ex boyfriend who basically begged me to meet up with him as he wanted to "talk with me", at this meeting he expressed that he wanted us to try again with a relationship with me.....maybe I should also make an effort and initiate the phone call or arrange a date if I want us to work this time, however I feel like that translates to me do do doing and overcompensating for his laziness"

You're correct. If you do that, then yes, you will be overcompensating for his "ack" - and that's HIS problem, not YOURS. He needs to prove himself genuinely interested here...and that means doing HIS half of the WORK involved to keep a relationship going. If he's not doing the work, then yes, you will carry the weight of the relationship on your shoulders alone.

"I feel lonely and less than special within this thing that him and I are doing"

That's because of his poor, neglectful treatment of you, and his taking you for granted. Think about this dear, ask yourself these questions:

1) Does he make you happy?
2) Does he fulfill your emotional needs?

That's really all that's important. If the answer to both of those questions is no...then that means he's not the right man for you dear - and most likely, he will never be able to make you happy. Because it takes two to make a relationship work...and yes...WORK and sacrifice is required from BOTH parties.

"My friend says if I act as distant as him he might think I'm not interested and pull back even more"

Maybe so...but is she suggesting that you IGNORE THE MESSAGE within that behavior? The message that behavior sends dear is that he's not the right man for you. No woman needs to work like crazy and exhaust herself emotionally just to stay on some guys radar. And if you do - you're with the wrong man.

"how do I handle this?"

You think long and hard about whether or not this man capable of, or even willing to, fulfilling your emotional needs and making you happy. If you decide the answer is no...then you know what to do.

Anonymous said...

Hello MOA it's #LondonBaybeh here, just really wanted to thank you for your reply.
Whilst I awaited your reply, I was really in two minds about wether I should just let him go.

While texting the other day he asked how my day had been and I replied that I had quite a bad day, his response? "Sorry" -_-. We were discussing his work matters aswell during that text session and he carried on talkin about what he done that day so I thought I'd say something about my shit day again to see if he would care to ask me what was wrong, I texted "ohh so happy for u bbe, and yhh my dad pissed me off so bad", his response? "Thanks bbe hopefully I keep the work up" and nothing else about why my dad pissed me off.

It became painfully clear to me that he probably didn't care about my problems, which ties right into your question about if he could fulfil my emotional needs. Later that night, texting again, I wrote "I miss you"...he read it and got offline (off whatsapp) -_- now I felt like a fool for thinking I could tell my man I missed him and he would reply, he came back 6 hours later and said "me too"....I have now broken up with him and said we should just remain friends, as it was pretty clear that he couldn't and didn't even want to try to make an effort with me.

Its been 2 days since I texted him saying let's just be friends, and no reply from him again displaying a lack of care maybe, but it's ok, I tried and that's all I can say, thank you for making me see that every thing I want in life won't always be the right thing, I will now take a guy break and enjoy travelling to the US, Miami for the 1st time with my bestfriends next month, cannot wait to reach ur side of the pond :DD.....Thank you for your help MOA xxxxx

#LondonBaybeh

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for your help and insight- love your articles.

I am having a hard time determining if the guy I am casually seeing has either:
1.) pulled back bc he was getting too close and needed his space
2.) disappeared as a "game" to get me more interested
3.) or is just plain not interested in me anymore

I've read all your articles, but how can you tell? It's a 5 month long distance relationship, sporadic communication, 2 meet ups with him traveling across the country to see me. Saw him almost 3 weeks ago and just a couple texts since then. No s*x but one occasion of intimacy where he wanted more and I kept my boundaries. I have NEVER appeared needy or clingy, don't initiate contact and keep everything light and breezy. What to do now- I've disappeared from his radar (on purpose!) not sure if he is aware of that yet :) Thanks!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Sep 17, 1:12 PM,
I think it's probably too early to tell dear. The answer won't start crystallizing until he resurfaces. At that time, you need to closely OBSERVE (not do anything else to keep the relationship going but watch) his ACTIONS versus his WORDS. You'll need to see if the two line up.

If they don't, then you have your answer. If they do, then you'll have to proceed further a bit more, still observing and paying close attention to both, to finally begin to see things more clear.

Getting to know new people is no easy feat dear. It takes a lot of time investment, and a lot of time spent together. And that's what the dating phase is all about - getting to know one another. It's hard to receive firm answers during that period because things are so uncertain and trust hasn't been fully earned yet, but there are things you can do to protect yourself and start to put the pieces together into a more clear picture. And the most important thing is - actions align with words. That's the sign of an authentic human being. Anything short of that is bullcrap. When someone's words do not align with their actions, you're being duped, plain and simple.

Anonymous said...

Thanks a million. My gut is telling me he is done, but I will wait to see if he comes back. I'm happy I can say that regardless I have kept my dignity and will continue to do so. He is use to women throwing themselves at him bc he is on TV, but I treat him like a normal person who I will never chase after. I think that intrigues him. Anyway, thanks so much.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, I have been a lurker on your website for a few months now. Your insight and observations have helped me tremendously. I have re-read this particular article on refusing to accept poor behavior so many times to give me the strength and resolve I needed to walk away from a guy I thought was a friend.

We met 3 years ago on our first day at work - we work at the same place put in different offices. We were both married at the time. At the beginning of this year I got divorced, and I learned that his wife had left him six months ago as well. So, we started to hang out as friends. I thought it was safe because he was a friend whom I had known for 3 years and he wasn't really my type. I was sort of oblivious to it, but friends told me that it was becoming very obvious that he had a crush on me. I continued to ignore it, as I just wanted friendship.

Then we went on a trip together. I am starting my own business and he came with me on a trip and helped out on a project. We got along very well, and traveled well together so I began to develop feelings for him and let myself fall for him. He tried to kiss me on the last night of the trip, but I ignored the hints because I was not ready for anything physical. I am very careful about sex and intimacy because I get attached very easily and don't like feeling used (only kissed 4 people ever). After we came back from the trip I sensed him starting to pull away a bit but when I told him that I was moving from the city where I was living to the city where I work (and where he lives), things started to change. My commute to work (1 hour and 20 minutes each way) was wearing me down, and with the side business I had -- I was simply burning out so I had to move closer to work. On the weekend that I came into the city where he lived to look at apartments, he blew me off when I texted him to ask if he wanted to meet up. After not hearing from him for a week, I texted him to ask if he was ok. I also told him at the same time that I had decided to take an apartment in the city and would be moving in a month. No answer.

Anonymous said...

Continued . . . .

Two weeks go by and I still have not heard from him, nor have I reached out to him. My co-workers asked me to join them for lunch at the cafeteria. I went upstairs to look for a table, while my co-workers got their lunch. When I reached the top of the stairs I saw him sitting with a woman. I walked over to a table several tables away from them. I noticed him smiling flirtatiously at her -- the same way he used to smile at me. I felt sick. I felt as though I had been punched in the stomach. I suddenly felt an urgent need to get out of there. I got up and left without turning to look back at them -- I just kept my eyes focused on the stairs and prayed to God he did not see me. I had to leave work early that day, I felt so sick. I missed two days of work because I literally felt weak from the shock and pain rejection. Over the weekend, I noticed he made a comment on my company's facebook page. It was basically an olive branch, so I ignored it because I thought it was pathetic and immature he was using facebook to reach out to me instead of calling or emailing me personally. It has been 3 months since we saw each other and there has been no communication on either side. Part of me feels as though he feels embarrassed and does not want to make another attempt after I ignored his facebook comment. He knows he did wrong, but does not have the courage to apologize. So, he's waiting for me to make the first move. Which I cannot understand because he was the one who blew me off. Any person with self-respect would do as I did and walk away.

I do not want to give him a pass. Treating me as though I were disposable and cutting me off without a word hurt me deeply. So, I took your advice and stepped aside and am letting him walk through the fire. In my past experience, they have always come back. (Even an ex-boyfriend who broke up with me by email eventually came back after 18 months to "see how I was doing.") If you do not accept poor behavior from people, they eventually have to deal with their own behavior and try to set things right. I also believe that difficult situations reveal people for who they really are, and that my silence is really power in this situation. From the pathetic way in which he tried to reach out to me on facebook, and then his silence for the past three months - he has shown me that he is a coward. My question to you, Mirror, is: do you think even cowards apologise?

I am digging my heels in. I will never speak to this guy again if there is no apology simply because I don't think I should reward those who mistreat me with friendship. However, this does not change the fact that I am deeply sad about this and disappointed that he turned out be such a pathetic wanker. Truly one of the worst I have met.

Thanks for your time. I would appreciate your thoughts on this.


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